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Deadlock Clock: 23rd Feb '12 11:59 PM
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Needs a dramatic overhaul: GettingCrapPastTheRadar:

Bump.

OK, left this one in August, figured others could make it happen but not a thing since I bumped it. Aren't we going to do anything about it or is it left on the "too big, not enough interest, deal with later" pile? Almost feels like I'm trying to kill YMMV here...

EDIT: Yeah, I know it's not a great idea to try and leave something hoping someone else will pick up the pieces but come on, isn't this worth doing at all for what is one of the most misinterpreted tropes going?

edited 16th Nov '11 8:12:14 AM by treelo

 103 nrjxll, Wed, 16th Nov '11 2:05:51 PM Relationship Status: Not war
Well, the fact that the winning crowner option is basically meaningless doesn't help.

Yeah but if we can't use it, why is the option of using the next positively voted choice down from it not available? Seems like that'd give us something to do and whilst not the crowner, it's still a very viable option. I'd opt for no examples and indexifying the article to tropes used by writers to do it but that's third though on sheer vote count, it's a stronger option than the ratio weighting suggests.

edited 16th Nov '11 4:49:57 PM by treelo

[up]The first two options aren't incompatible if you're willing to squint. Rewrite Getting Crap Past the Radar with a limit to blatant attempts and make it an exampleless supertrope. Any entries that don't fit on a more objective trope probably won't be blatant enough for the new definition, so we shouldn't lose anything extra going that route.
Yeah, unwritten rule number one: follow all the unwritten procedures. - Camacan
Doubt the stuff we lose matters too much given how many examples are based on perception and not actuality which we don't know, most will be on the correct trope anyway if they're paying that much attention. But yeah, I'd be happy with a supertrope though really any trope that works to that effect should be included, the examples and the definition are the worst.

For what to do now, we should look at removing all examples from works pages and cutting any Radar subpages eventually. If anyone wanted to take on rewriting the trope so it actually read like a supertrope and not vaguely like five others that'd be welcome too.

edited 18th Nov '11 6:38:59 AM by treelo

 107 nrjxll, Sat, 19th Nov '11 5:45:10 PM Relationship Status: Not war
So what exactly are you proposing doing here? This is my personal benchmark for worst-off "trope" we have, so if you have an actual plan on how to deal with it, I'd like to hear it.

My plan was to remove all examples from tropes and the creepy subpages devoted to it, rewrite the trope as a supertrope with no examples required and add a YMMV tag.

The first part is the toughie as it's on several thousand pages but it could be done.

edited 19th Nov '11 6:55:41 PM by treelo

 109 nrjxll, Sat, 19th Nov '11 7:00:38 PM Relationship Status: Not war
That seems like it might need some kind of outside approval, though, seeing as it's everywhere and this was evidently a low-key crowner.

But hey, I pulled it off with the Mary Sue tropes (though admittedly that was just the trope pages - I left them alone on works).

It would need approval and it's pretty much there but the crowner pretty much killed everything because it was uncertain what to do once the actual crowner wasn't actually going to offer a real resolution.

Yeah, this is a huge endeavour which'll need a good few people working at removing wicks and getting deletion rolling for the subpages. Rewrite is the easiest part but that can't be done until it's approved.

edited 19th Nov '11 8:02:26 PM by treelo

I do love the trope but its time to make it a locked page. Repeated repairs should stop.

Locking isn't an option.

Why?

Simple reason, the content of the trope page isn't the problem here, the examples used on several other pages are. Removing all examples takes away most of the issues this trope has because it is severely misused, rewriting the trope hasn't worked before so this is the best option we have right now. Locking won't do a thing, all it'll do is leave it in it's current broken state.

edited 22nd Nov '11 3:04:04 AM by treelo

To just be clear, I'm not saying that rewriting the trope into a supertrope will fix it entirely but when it's rewritten and then we get issues, consider locking then but not before.

bump

'nother bump.

 118 nrjxll, Tue, 29th Nov '11 2:24:03 PM Relationship Status: Not war
The reason no one is doing anything (or at least the reason I'm not) is because your plan

My plan was to remove all examples from tropes and the creepy subpages devoted to it, rewrite the trope as a supertrope with no examples required and add a YMMV tag.

The first part is the toughie as it's on several thousand pages but it could be done.

while something I can support in theory, seems like something that very definitely needs approval from on high to pull off, and that doesn't exist right now. The crowner's winning result is meaningless, yes, but it's not this.

Of course it requires approval from the highest of the high, it's a huge change (and not the crowner) I'm well aware but the only reason I keep bumping is for someone who has that sort of authority to actually say something and to find a group who'd be able to put the plan into action. I know if it's merely left to three tropers or less, it won't make a difference if it gets approval because it won't be done.

I was considering taking this trope and a bundle of similar tropes which all have the same type of issue and seeing if they can't be fixed up too as part of a large-scale cleanup. All I know is that this dirty little corner of TV Tropes will remain dirty for a bit longer... curse its popularity.

edited 29th Nov '11 2:35:32 PM by treelo

 120 Septimus Heap, Tue, 21st Feb '12 1:11:38 PM from Zurich, Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
A Wizard boy
Bumping. Will anything be done here?

 121 shimaspawn, Tue, 28th Feb '12 2:42:51 PM from Here and Now Relationship Status: In your bunk
Calling crowner, but I do not think it will fix anything.
Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.

-Philip K. Dick
 122 Oreochan, Wed, 16th May '12 7:01:52 PM from Pennsylvania
So, are we actually going to do anything here? I assume looking at the crowner that we have to tweak the description and remove anything that's not blatant, right? I'm going to go agree with shima that this won't help much.
"Learning without thinking is labor lost. Thinking without learning is dangerous."
 123 Septimus Heap, Sat, 30th Jun '12 4:25:53 AM from Zurich, Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
A Wizard boy
Two things that come in mind there, so that something gets done:
  • I've seen several people succesfully trying to clean up the various Radar subpages. Should we, Complete Monster-style, clean out the subpages and then lock them up, so that new entries can be discussed before being added?
  • The main page's trope description could help by being rewritten to be more concise, also Complete Monster style. Specifically:
    • Throw the second half of the 1st, the 2nd and 3th paragraphs to Analysis.Getting Crap Past The Radar
    • Expand the first half of the 1st paragraph so that it summarizes the trope on its own.
    • Rewrite or move the last two paragraphs so that they can stand as definition and/or contrast section.

I'm in favor of having more discipline, Getting Crap Past the Radar gets misused VERY easily because it typically has its own subpages that get past the cleanup radar themselves (not many tropers browse them as actively). There's also snowball effect - if there's a lot of misuse, people might get the wrong idea of the trope and propagate it.

[up][up] I support this solution.
 

Page Action: Getting Crap Past The Radar
6th Jun '11 11:35:45 AM
What would be the best way to fix the page?
At issue:
Total posts: 193
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