British Politics Thread

Which is hardly relevant now. I'd rather have the opposition parties just let the Tories implode unless a clear vote of no confidence shows up than A) cause more problems that make any end deal even worse, or B) let the part of Labour obsessed with chasing the centre and focus groups get all the attention from complaining and how biased the press is.

The Tories are kind of hilarious at the moment.

In that horrible way that hurts me as well.

So, remember all those lies - actual, verifiable lies, mind you - the Leave Campaign made? Did... Anyone get punished for that? Like... How does that work? How do you lie, very clearly, and end up Foreign Secretary?

How is this happening in real life when we have shows listed on this site where nudity gives you super powers?

Asking Labour to run against Brexit is rather unfair when Brexit support cuts across party lines, and when Corbyn is so firmly committed to democracy as a principle. Corbyn will not say "fuck you, voters, you can't have Brexit because you don't know what's good for you" even when they clearly don't.

Plus, y'know, doing so in a democratic society is hazardous to your career.

Especially with the Tories going full blast "This is the will of the people" on every speaker. Labour being the party of Soft Brexit is still fucking stupid but there's a hefty dose of realism in there, probably.

I don't think that it is in any way unfair to expect that politicians put the country over the party. If labour had taken a clear stance in this matter and fought for convincing their voters that this was the last chance to rescue the whole country, they might have actually outright won. And nobody could have accused them to ignore the will of the people if they were elected on this platform. They could have easily pointed out that the number of people who elected them trumps the ones which voted for Brexit.

Plus, Labours failure starts earlier. Corby in a Brexiter and it is not like Labour wasn't part of the whole EU blame-game. They had their hand in undermining an union on which their country was dependent.

They wouldn't have. For the most part, it was never the conservative vote that UKIP was eating away at by anti-EU paranoia. If Labour had campaigned on an anti-brexit stance after the vote took place, UKIP would have bled them votes and delivered a decisive Tory majority.

As a party, Labour cannot stand to election on a platform of "fuck what the poor people asked for".

I think you miss something a little crucial: people in Labour have been campaigning on pro-EU stances. For decades. The problem is... it doesn't get into the press in anything like a positive way.

The press barons have been tilting the game since the 70s.

Worse, the divide within Labour over pro- and anti-EU stances has made a unified, party-wide stance was difficult for them as it is for the Tories.

You're putting the ball solely in the court of parties in individual countries, when the EU as a collective has been just as poor at self-promotion. See Poland and Hungary for what happens when no alternate narrative for unification gets lucrative backing.

edited 12th Dec '17 11:52:20 PM by Euodiachloris

That's one of the problems with the EU. It doesn't have a very good PR team. Probably doesn't help that the faces of it are the likes of Tusk and Juncker. Not exactly inspiring.

It also just makes for a convenient scapegoat. Problems with your own country? Blame the EU and the lack of sovereignty! Never mind if the problems have absolutely fuck all to do with the EU!

And FWIW, while Corbyn is still pretty mum about how he'd actually manage Brexit negotiations if he were in charge, he did outright admit in an interview that if there were a second referendum, he'd vote Remain again. He explained that he voted Remain last year because he thought leaving was a bad idea, and that nothing has changed his mind.

edited 12th Dec '17 11:58:50 PM by M84

Corbyn is also the guy who keeps to claim that the EU is hindering the UK to develop more socialist structures. This guy changes his tune based on which audience he is talking to.

And I do think that even with the press pushing for Brexit, the Remain side could have done a lot if they had a clear leader and a clear stance. If some random person is able to campaign to keep the democratic structures of the UK intact and win her case, the politicians should be able to do the same thing. Just bringing up the need of a proper impact assessment BEFORE triggering Article 50 would have gone a long was to prevent the UK from manoeuvring itself to the edge of a cliff.

It is possible to be pro-Remain but also be someone who wants to reform the Union, y'know.

Heck, I think one of the reasons Corbyn was pro-Remain in the first place was because he wanted the UK to participate in reforming the EU.

I imagine information like this Twitter thread made the idea pretty tempting - much of the EU’s current shape is due to British policy, so if we don’t like it, we can change it.

And that is the thing. The EU is largely the way the UK - and that includes Labour - designed it to be. But Corbyn (who might claim to be a Remainer now, but always acted more like a leaver) claims that the UK is the way it is because of the EU. And that is EXACTLY what currently ails the UK. None of the politicians is ready to take responsibilities. None of them steps up and says "The EU is actually a great thing. It is not perfect, but we have countless advantages because of it". Even the damned Remain campaign was more anti-leave than pro-EU. Because being pro-EU would actually mean to admit that the UK itself is responsible for the housing crisis and whatever else needs to get fixed.

Meanwhile, Tory backbenchers have helped force through an amendment that means MP's get a final vote on any Brexit deals rather than giving the ministers free reign to change what they like.

nvm.

edited 15th Dec '17 11:25:41 AM by Wyldchyld

So after today's vote in Parliament, are we expecting another ENEMIES OF THE PEOPLE front page from the Mail tomorrow?

Funny that the English Nazis use a Bolshevik phrase.

nvm.

edited 15th Dec '17 11:26:17 AM by Wyldchyld

The vote is to be celebrated, but in the context of winning a single skirmish. It's a symbol and a bruise for May, but hardly a mortal wound.

I am not sure if May is even the problem. In the end, she is more a tool than anything else. This is about those who push for a hard Brexit, and they don't seem to get any bruises at all. In fact, it is kind of shocking what they get away with.

They get away with it because May is the one who takes the lumps instead. That's the whole reason they keep her as PM.

Called it?◊

Wow, even knowing what the Heil is like, the stupidity on display still made my head hurt.

Once again, after railing about the importance of Parliamentary Sovereignty during the referendum, the Mail complains when said sovereignty is exercised in ways they don't like.

The Daily Heil is nothing if not inconsistent.

Also, people unironically use Marxist as a derogatory term, still? Christ.