This thread exists to discuss British politics.
Political issues related to Northern Ireland and the Crown Dependencies (the Channel Islands and the Isle of Man) are also considered on-topic here if there's no more appropriate OTC thread for them.
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As with other OTC threads, off-topic posts may be thumped or edited by the moderators.
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- There's also a separate thread to talk about your favourite British Prime Ministers.
Recent political stuff:
- The vote to see if Britain should adopt Alternative Voting has failed.
- Lib Dems lose lots of councils and councillors, whilst Labour make the majority of the gains in England.
- The Scottish National Party do really well in the elections.
A link to the BBC politics page containing relevant information.
Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 3rd 2023 at 11:15:30 AM
Less sure about this one, I know there can be a lot of snobbishness when it comes to learners who still make mistakes, or only went part of the way, but in my experience, fully fluent second language Welsh speakers of Welsh nationality are pretty well accepted. I say that from the position of the cultural group who would be doing the accepting of course, not the cultural group looking to be accepted, so maybe it's a perception from different viewpoints thing.
edited 15th Aug '17 3:02:56 PM by GoldenKaos
"...in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach."I certainly hope so because it'll benefit Welsh culture much more to make Welsh learning a welcoming, inclusive experience. My attitude's always been that the a big, important, gap in the Welsh Assembly's push to improve Welsh language is their failure to capture the adults who want to learn but can't easily attend (or even afford) Welsh classes. They're the ones most likely to pass on the language to their children and grandchildren in a bilingual way because they wanted to learn it themselves.
edited 7th Apr '18 11:45:07 AM by Wyldchyld
If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.I think I can agree with that, the younger Welsh tend to be far more accepting. And the only actual anti-English racism I've come across is from the older generation.
"...in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach."That's really really dumb. Welsh learners should be praised and encouraged as a matter of existential preservation.
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.The people who are snobby will support learners in the words they say, and often in some of the actions they do, but they might still have a little superiority complex/snobbish attitude towards them.
It might be a little like how bullies are likely to have been bullied themselves - some Welsh have been put down so much they feel the need to put others down. Plus they probably feel more "special" than learners due to being born and bred Welsh. It's undeniably stupid and counterproductive.
edited 17th Aug '17 12:20:19 AM by GoldenKaos
"...in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach."It was only a matter of time considering his health but it is still sad to hear that Sir Bruce Forsyth has died
Knowledge is Power, Guard it WellEx-legal chief attacks Theresa May’s ‘foolish’ claim on European court of justice
Sir Paul Jenkins, who was the government’s most senior legal official for eight years until 2014, told the Observer that the prime minister’s policy on the legal implications of Brexit was “foolish”. He insisted that if the UK wants to retain close links with the single market and customs union it will have no option but to observe EU law “in all but name”.
The comments – backed by several other leading experts on EU law – cast serious doubt on the central plank of the government’s latest thinking on Brexit, with less than two weeks to go before Brexit secretary David Davis enters a crucial phase of talks on the exit plans in Brussels.
Stephen Hawking on the government and the NHS. This is from Friday. I've put the follow-ups in a second post below because this post was getting far too long.
The NHS saved me. As a scientist, I must help to save it
The care I have received since being diagnosed with motor neurone disease as a student in 1962 has enabled me to live my life as I want, and to contribute to major advances in our understanding of the universe. In July I celebrated my 75th birthday with an international science conference in Cambridge. I still have a full-time job as director of research at the Centre for Theoretical Cosmology and, with two colleagues, am soon to publish another scientific paper on quantum black holes.
Last year my personal experience of the NHS and my scientific life came together when I co-signed a letter calling for healthcare policy to be based on peer-reviewed research and proper evidence. The specific issue addressed in the letter was the “weekend effect”. Jeremy Hunt, the health secretary, had claimed that thousands of patients died unnecessarily because of poor hospital care at the weekend, and used this to argue that we needed to implement a seven-day NHS. I had mixed feelings about the issue. Having spent a lot of time in hospital, I would like there to be more services available at weekends. Also, it seems possible that some patients spend more time in hospital than is necessary because certain diagnostic tests can only be done on weekdays.
However, as we showed in the letter, Hunt had cherry-picked research to justify his argument. For a scientist, cherry-picking evidence is unacceptable. When public figures abuse scientific argument, citing some studies but suppressing others to justify policies they want to implement for other reasons, it debases scientific culture. One consequence of this sort of behaviour is that it leads ordinary people to not trust science at a time when scientific research and progress are more important than ever.
This problem goes beyond the weekend effect. The NHS is in a crisis, and one that has been created by political decisions. These political decisions include underfunding and cuts, privatising services, the public sector pay cap, the new contract imposed on junior doctors, and removal of the student nurses’ bursary. Political decisions such as these cause reductions in care quality, longer waiting lists, anxiety for patients and staff, and dangerous staff shortages. Failures in the system of privatised social care for disabled and elderly people have placed an additional burden on the NHS.
So what is to be done? A physicist like me analyses a system in terms of levels of approximation. To a first approximation, one can see the situation facing healthcare in this country in terms of forces with different interests.
On the one hand, there is the force of the multinational corporations, driven by their profit motive. In the US, where they are dominant in the healthcare system, these corporations make enormous profits, healthcare is not universal, and it is hugely more expensive for the outcomes patients receive than in the UK. We see the balance of power in the UK is with private healthcare companies, and the direction of change is towards a US-style insurance system.
On the other hand, there is the force of the public, and of democracy. Opinion polls consistently show a majority in favour of a publicly provided NHS, and opposed to privatisation and a two-tier system. Therefore, the best way to support the NHS is to empower the public. There are two priorities. First, clear information that public provision is not only the fairest way to deliver healthcare, but also the most cost-effective. Second, a loud voice and the political power to make politicians act on our behalf.
If that all sounds political, that is because the NHS has always been political. It was set up in the face of political opposition. It is Britain’s finest public service and a cornerstone of our society, something that binds us together. People value the NHS, and are proud that we treat everyone equally when they are sick. The NHS brings out the best in us. We cannot lose it.
edited 19th Aug '17 3:43:02 PM by Wyldchyld
If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.Here are the reactions to Hawking's speech on Friday, and a follow-up Guardian article from this evening. Apologies for the double-post. I'm trying to keep it readable.
Jeremy Hunt accuses Stephen Hawking of 'pernicious falsehood' in NHS row
Hours after the health secretary was criticised for claiming Hawking was wrong in the row about the government’s seven-day NHS plan, he leapt back into the fray with two tweets defending the Conservative party’s record on the health service.
“Professor Hawking has given us answers to many of the universe’s most challenging questions, and even he can’t work out why Jeremy Hunt is still in his job.”
Jeremy Corbyn, the Labour leader, said Hawking was a “brilliant scientist” with a “brilliant mind” and “brilliant thought process” who should be listened to.
Speaking to broadcasters in north Wales, Corbyn added: “And if Stephen Hawking is saying that our NHS is under threat and in danger and in crisis then I think we need to listen very very carefully with what he has to say. I admire Stephen and I agree absolutely with what he said.”
The former Liberal Democrat leader Tim Farron said: “A renowned scientist such as Stephen Hawking questioning your evidence might normally be cause to think again, but sadly it looks as though Jeremy Hunt has joined the chorus of those who have had enough of experts.
“It’s easy to accept evidence when it supports your ideological view of how a service should be provided, but we see this government ignoring the evidence time and time again when it suits them, be it on the NHS, our school system or leaving the single market.”
Social media users, including many doctors and scientists, mocked Hunt for taking on the “world’s most famous scientist”.
Martin Mc Kee, professor of European public health at the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine, responded directly to Hunt, citing studies and articles that contradicted his argument.
Mc Kee, who said he has been writing on the subject of hospital mortality for 22 years, added: “I’d appeal to those commenting not to personalise this with attacks on Hunt – let’s stick to evidence – it’s strong enough on its own.”
Trisha Greenhalgh, professor of primary care health sciences at Oxford University, said: “Awake to tweet from Jeremy Hunt telling Stephen Hawking he doesn’t know how to interpret evidence. Replies are good.”
Stephen Hawking blames Tory politicians for damaging NHS
The renowned 75-year-old physicist was speaking to promote an address he will give on Saturday outlining how he owes his long life and achievements to the NHS care he received, and setting out his fears for a service he believes is being turned into “a US-style insurance system”.
The author of A Brief History of Time did not name any minister or political party in his general complaint, but he blamed a raft of policies pursued since 2010 by the coalition and then the Conservatives for enfeebling the NHS and leaving it unable to cope with the demands being placed on it.
“The crisis in the NHS has been caused by political decisions,” he said. “The political decisions include underfunding and cuts, privatising services, the public sector pay cap, the new contract imposed on the junior doctors and removal of the student nurses’ bursary.
“Failures in the system of privatised social care for disabled and elderly people has also placed additional burden on the NHS.”
“Speaking as a scientist, cherry picking evidence is unacceptable,” he will say. “When public figures abuse scientific argument, citing some studies but suppressing others, to justify policies that they want to implement for other reasons, it debases scientific culture.
“One consequence of this sort of behaviour is that it leads ordinary people not to trust science, at a time when scientific research and progress are more important than ever, given the challenges we face as a human race.”
Criticising NHS privatisation, Hawking will say that the £2.9bn spent every year by hospitals in England on temporary personnel to alleviate chronic understaffing has enriched private employment firms while denying the NHS vital funding.
“The huge increase in the use of private agency staff, for example, inevitably means that money is extracted from the system as profit for the agency, and increases costs for the whole country.”
Hawking will says he fears that private firms have gained such a large role in treating NHS patients they are now undermining its founding principles and opening the door to the Americanisation of care.
“We must prevent the establishment of a two-tier service, with the best medicine for the wealthy and an inferior service for the rest. International comparisons indicate that the most efficient way to provide good healthcare is for services to be publicly funded and publicly run.
“We see that the direction in the UK is towards a US-style insurance system, run by the private companies, and that is because the balance of power right now is with the private companies.”
“When politicians and private healthcare industry lobbyists claim that we cannot afford the NHS, this is the exact inversion of the truth. We cannot afford not to have the NHS”, he will declare.
edited 19th Aug '17 3:40:07 PM by Wyldchyld
If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.Hunt has picked a fight he just cannot win. Seriously: anything he tries to sling, Stephen can withstand. Any academic with his creds has had loads of facetious idiots try to tear them apart.
Mind you, it's Hunt: he's tried (and failed) to corner the market on facetious and idiot.
'Hard' Brexit offers '£135bn annual boost' to economy
Basically, a pro Brexit economics professor argues that if the UK simply unilaterally ends Trade Barriers either the EU will be forced to do likewise or be swamped by the new British competition.
I'm not big on economic theory but wouldn't that basically end with the UK getting swamped with import stuff and having no advantage in export?
"You can reply to this Message!"They will end up with so much USA chlorine chicken...
edited 20th Aug '17 2:24:44 AM by M84
Disgusted, but not surprisedIt's a premise that assumes we can actually meaningfully compete with the EU on the world market.
Because let's be honest, swamping the market doesn't actually guarantee success if you don't have the skill to make stuff people want to buy. Unless we actually want to become the Digital Homicide of international trade.
edited 20th Aug '17 2:43:30 AM by Deadbeatloser22
"Yup. That tasted purple."John Oliver's Brexit II segment brought that up. Needless to say, he wasn't very keen on the odds of that being the case.
Relevant bit starts at 11:15.
In case you can't see it in your country:
"Maybe pork pies, Marmite, mushy peas, and undiagnosed clinical depression will all take the planet by storm."
Disgusted, but not surprisedYes, force marmite on the world. There's got to be three and a half billion converts out there (and another three and a half billion enemies).
Avatar SourceAnd then we end up going to war with Australia over Marmite vs Vegemite.
"Yup. That tasted purple."And the descendants of Lucille Ball will play both sides in the name of Vitametavegamin.
edited 20th Aug '17 6:46:08 AM by sgamer82
We could also export cricket again. As the West Indies show, the world needs some more entrants there.
Avatar Sourcedouble-post.
edited 7th Apr '18 11:46:13 AM by Wyldchyld
If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.Britain 'could remain under direct control of European court for years'
The expanding scale of the prime minister’s climbdown over her promise to “take back control of British law” was revealed as the government published its latest position paper on dispute resolution before the next round of Brexit talks.
While stressing that the range of options it contains are hypothetical, the government outlines only scenarios in which “direct” ECJ authority is eventually replaced by a new court or committee over which Europe maintains “indirect” control.
It has also become clear that the UK government is now open to preserving the direct authority of the ECJ throughout the interim transition period after March 2019 – during which it is expected to spend years negotiating a new trade agreement.
News of the government’s evolving position has led to a growing political storm this week, with Tory Brexit supporters claiming Theresa May is abandoning the hardline position she set out in last year’s Conservative party conference speech and in a speech at Lancaster House in January.
European determination to use the ECJ to protect the rights of its citizens and companies after Brexit is forcing the UK into a corner and threatens to derail talks in Brussels before the British negotiator, David Davis, can switch the discussion on to trade and future relations.
However, test cases involving individuals appealing against unfair treatment by, for example, UK immigration authorities may quickly escalate into a dispute over the interpretation of the whole agreement, potentially allowing the ECJ to step in on behalf of aggrieved EU citizens.
Shadow minister faces backlash over women-only train carriage idea
Williamson, the shadow fire minister, said he was open to the idea first proposed by Jeremy Corbyn when he was running for the Labour leadership in 2016.
But the idea was criticised on Wednesday by the leader of train drivers’ union Aslef and female M Ps, who said that it would normalise attacks.
Williamson, MP for Derby North, tweeted a BBC graphic showing the increase in the number of sexual assaults, along with an accompanying blog post suggesting Corbyn had been right to suggest female-only carriages.
“It would be worth consulting about it,” Williamsom told Politics Home. “It was pooh-poohed, but these statistics seem to indicate there is some merit in examining that.
Corbyn's original statement:
Oh, and in the latest example of Americanisation...
Rustler steals 40,000 bees in Britain's biggest hive heist in years
PC Dewi Evans of the North Wales police said: “It is an unusual crime – there aren’t that many people who know how to steal bees.
“We believe whoever was responsible must have been wearing a full bee suit, otherwise they would have been stung to smithereens and very badly injured.”
Evans appealed for information from anyone who may have noticed an unusual buzzing sound in their neighbourhood.
Roberts agreed that the thief must be an experienced apiarist. “You need to know what you are doing to steal a hive – which entrances of the hive to block up, and not to use solid tape, otherwise you could suffocate the bees,” she said.
Another beekeeper was also suspected of stealing 24,000 bees worth about £2,000 from the Hooton Pagnell Hall estate, near Doncaster, in April. A bee smoker was left at the scene, possibly used to calm the bees before they were taken.
Bee rustling is a particular problem in the US, where crime syndicates have been involved in stealing bee colonies worth millions of dollars and trucking them to almond farms and olive groves. Billions of bees are needed to pollinate California’s almond and orange crops – more than live in the Golden State.
edited 17th Nov '17 8:24:02 PM by Wyldchyld
If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.Dr Eva Johanna Holmberg, who is married to a British citizen, was told she had a month to leave.
A Home Office spokesperson said "the rights of EU nationals living in the UK remain unchanged".
While I can see this spawning a number of conspiracy theories it is more than likely just the usual government incompetence.
Knowledge is Power, Guard it WellGrenfell Tower fire: May accepts Tory-led council did not help quickly enough
The prime minister was invited to the meeting by residents to hear about the challenges they continue to face, amid anger that a public inquiry will only look at the practical causes of the fire and not wider issues around the quality of social housing.
May, who was criticised for not meeting residents and victims’ relatives in the immediate aftermath of the fire, spent time discussing support for bereaved families, housing, the inquiry and the distribution of charitable funds. Her promise that the TMO would lose its role in the Lancaster West housing estate was later confirmed by the council leader, Elizabeth Campbell, who said: “We wrote to the TMO yesterday and said that we didn’t think the most viable option was to work with them going forward.”
edited 17th Nov '17 8:25:08 PM by Wyldchyld
If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.Laura Pidcock MP is getting off to a rough start. [1]
To expand, the Labour MP said she considers the Conservatives the enemy and that she won't hang out with Tory MPs. Basically, she's behaving like a petulant child.
The voice of thy brother's blood crieth unto me from the ground
Yeah, the biggest problem is marketing. The origin of the Labour Party has very strong Welsh roots, so it was up and running with the 'Welsh Party' branding before what we think of as Plaid was up and running. It was hard for Plaid to gain a Welsh political identity with Labour already hogging the lime light.
I think they've probably done the best thing they can in the circumstances — that is, brand themselves as the Wales 'priority' party, unlike the other parties, who all have a much wider focus than just Wales.
If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.