Confusing Definition: All That Glitters

The saying "all that glitters is not gold" means that things that look valuable/precious aren't always so, unless I'm much mistaken. However, for the whole of the trope description, apart from the last 2 lines, it seems to be talking about the inverse of the phrase-"all that is gold does not glitter" i.e. valuable things aren't always silver and gold. This is backed up by the description mentioning that the actual meaning of the phrase is an inversion.

So which is the real trope: the meaning of the phrase or the definition given in the description? Either way, the description needs to be altered and examples checked to fit with the actual trope.

Actually I think the meaning is: not everything that is valuable (that glitters) is gold. ie gold is not the only form of treasure.

All that is gold does not glitter is from a different source. Tolkien, and the two sayings are confused by people.

edited 17th Apr '11 11:18:22 AM by Sackett

The actual meaning of the phrase is definitely 'things that look valuable may not be so', as far as I can see by checking dictionaries and the earliest recorded instances of it. However the main problem is more about which meaning the trope is actually representing.

The meaning that you are familiar with is archaic and no longer used. For the first 50 years of television the phrase was used to denote "family, love, and friends are more valuable than gold", so regardless of whatever the original intent or meaning behind the phrase was, that is what it has come to mean.

I've never heard of it used that way, I have heard it used as "things aren't always as valuable as they appear".

Fight smart, not fair.

^ Nor have I. My experience with it is the same as deboss's: Just because something is [pretty, beautiful, eye-catching, etc.] doesn't mean it's [valuable, good, desirable, etc.].

...if you don’t love you’re dead, and if you do, they’ll kill you for it.

Add me to that.

It does not matter who I am. What matters is, who will you become? - motto of Omsk Bird

I'm fourthing this.

I'm on the internet. My arguments are invalid.

Fifthing. I had no idea that there was another interpretation.

I'm with everyone else. I have never heard of Zeta's version of this phrase.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick

There is now a single proposition rename crowner for this trope here, given that the current trope title seems to be using All That Glitters in a very non-traditional way. For more support for that view, I would look at the differences between how dictionary.com defines "all that glitters" and how the current laconic for the trope does.

I would suggest a new name that is something like More Precious Than Gold (or More Precious Than Gold Plot) or in some way suggests that this is a plot device.

edited 10th Oct '11 6:23:47 PM by LouieW

"irhgT nm0w tehre might b ea lotof th1nmgs i dont udarstannd, ubt oim ujst goinjg to keepfollowing this pazth i belieove iN !!!!!1 d

I hate to say it, but you guys are complelty misunderstanding the trope definition.

The trope as written is about things that appear to promise great value but have not actual value, and therefore does match the title.

The Example As Thesis basically can be summed up as:

1. Something glitters: You have a dungeon that you think is going to be packed full of loot and requires lots of effort of break into.
2. It isn't gold: It turns out there is in fact no loot, just a bunch of worthless trite fortune cookie nonsense.

It isn't about finding value in things that aren't gold or look unattractive. Quite the opposite in fact.

edited 10th Oct '11 6:31:06 PM by Auxdarastrix

See also the comment: "If they really did gain more from their experience than the value of the treasure they end up with, It's the Journey That Counts — which is a related trope."

This is further indication that this trope is not about finding real value in things that don't have monetary value, which is what the OP in this thread seems to be misunderstanding this trope as.

edited 10th Oct '11 6:35:11 PM by Auxdarastrix

The only clear line defining it in the whole description is this one: "Essentially an Aesop about not being deceived by appearances. Interestingly can be easily inverted as you can reverse it to say that All That Glitters (nice appearance) is not gold (of value)."

The meaning that's listed as the "inversion" is the more common meaning — "Just because something is attractive doesn't mean it's valuable." Which means that the trope is being defined as "Things that appear to be worthless are really valuable."

All that Example As Thesis that comes first, about treasure chests and warm fuzzy emotional things, is obscuring the trope.

edited 10th Oct '11 6:37:51 PM by Madrugada

...if you don’t love you’re dead, and if you do, they’ll kill you for it.

No, you are not getting it. You are focusing on the wrong thing. This is about worthless things that present the appearance of being a potentially valuable treasure. The Example As Thesis is the defining part of the trope. Bad writing maybe, but that is what it is.

Look at the sister trope, which says "Compare Magic Feather, where the protagonist discovers he's always had the abilities he ascribed to the MacGuffin, and All That Glitters, where the twist is merely that the treasure is worthless, not that the characters have benefited from the search for it. See Excuse Plot when arriving at the destination is simply not as important to the plot as the journey there."

Again: It's the Journey That Counts is what you seem to think this trope is. And you are wrong. Also, saying that the proper definition of the trope is an inverted reversion is a late and mistaken addition by someone that is clearly confused.

This is the oldest version of the definition for All That Glitters I can find. Emphasis added:

---

After having a dangerous adventure through a trap-stuffed temple or dungeon, surviving dangerous untold and hardships unnumbered - the adventurers finally reach the lowest floor. Before a huge stone idol there's a treasure chest. They eagerly rush forward and open the chest... Only to find a scroll listing "Friendship, Love, Courage, and Hope", or something equally inane.

Whoops! They've just encountered a particularly Anvilicious Aesop - learning that "All That Glitters is not gold." Instead of getting gold, jewels, or artifacts, they've found nothing more than a collection of ancient scrolls listing "warm and fuzzy" emotional virtues put there by some ancient specifically to teach future treasure hunters a lesson, usually long after their own death.

A Dead Horse Trope in this form. A variation where a "family treasure" turns out to be something of sentimental value is still used, though.

---

edited 10th Oct '11 6:54:07 PM by Auxdarastrix

So say you break into a tomb and there is a ton of gold around but the PC can't take any of it since your here for something specific?

Sparkling and glittering! Jan-Ken-Pon!

Yeah, trope is using the phrase backward. "All the glitters is not gold" means "not everything that seems valuable is valuable". The trope is "not everything that seems worthless is worthless". Backwards.

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.

It seems to me that the trope, as written, does describe a treasure of some sort not living up to expectations of value.

The problem I see here is that, as described, it's referring to a very specific kind of "treasure" - to wit, "mushy feelings", as the Laconic entry describes it.

A quick scan of the examples suggests that at least half of them are fitting the more general definition than the specific kind the definition is fixated upon.

I'd argue the solution is to cut the Example as a Thesis and write something up to match the more general definition everyone thinks this is, and if there are enough examples of the specific kind lurking here, they need to be split off into a new trope (perhaps with one of the titles suggested above).

This space for rent. Cost: your soul.

Nope, this is about things that seem valuable being worthless. Expect a chest full of gold? Nope, you got a fortune cookie. It isn't about finding value in the fortune cookie. That would be It's the Journey That Counts. In this trope, the fortune cookie is worthless, inane, stupid and annoying.

Yep: It is about treasure not having any real monetary value, and therefore being pointless and worthless. It is about when the supposed mushy feelings value of the trope is actually quite bogus.

It's the Journey That Counts is the trope that some people seem to think this trope is.

Compare that description of It's the Journey That Counts to original definition of '''All That Glitters that I pasted above.

edited 10th Oct '11 6:57:51 PM by Auxdarastrix

That does pretty much describe what the description currently on All That Glitters thinks it is, in my view, so instead of creating a new trope to hold the specific-kind examples, perhaps they should be moved there instead.

This space for rent. Cost: your soul.

No, there is a distinct difference between All That Glitters and It's the Journey That Counts.

In the first one, the sentimental stuff thing that presents itself as having value above treasure is inane and worthless.

In the second, the sentimental stuff really does have value.

The "inane" is window dressing. All That Glitters is loading extra baggage onto a very well established proverb."

The Trope:

It's the Journey That Counts: What you thought was the goal turns out to be unimportant.

All That Glitters: What you expected to be valuable turns out to be mushy and inane.

The normal usage:

It's the journey that counts: The going is more important than the being there. Basically the same.

All that glitters: Just because something looks good doesn't mean it is good. It might be, but it isn't necessarily. It's the negation of a causal relationship between appearance and actual value.

...if you don’t love you’re dead, and if you do, they’ll kill you for it.

Aux, I'm not seeing that. At all. And given that a lot of other people are seeing it the same way as I am, at the very least it's a bad description, and we need to address that.

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.

My point is that what's currently defined there more closely matches It's the Journey That Counts than what people are expecting at All That Glitters. Perhaps it's not an exact fit, but it could be seen to be within the bounds of a lump-and-soft-split.

To get back to the matter at hand, it seems that we are agreeing that the description on this page, as written, doesn't match what people are expecting to see here.

This space for rent. Cost: your soul.