I need help

I just got accused of being afflicted with the GIFT this got to me and I'm sick of being that guy around here but I don't know what you people want with me. What am I doing that's so horrid? What is the issue that needs correcting? I've just gotten to establish my political identity and I don't know what is the mtter.

This. *cough*

TDML wanna discuss your issues with me? I'm open tot alking about it.

Sure. Give me a bit to come up with a list.

I have to admit Tnu, I'd stop skipping over your posts if you would start taking the time to run a spell checker.

Not trying to be a dick or anything, but spelling mistakes drive me fucking bonkers.

Aside from that I guess it'd be that you're a little too extreme man, the whole "Humans have the right to do whatever you want and even the most trivial action that doesn't hurt others directly is a right that is worth dying to protect" schtik just isn't realistic to me, so I don't take it that seriously.

It's just that at the end of the day, most of the people here are actually rather normal politically. The forum as a whole has a left of center tune to it, but there's those of us who are hardline centrists or right of center. Folks like you, Savage Heathen with his anarchist spiel about how law and order is evil, and when Rott starts acting like he's copy/pasting from War & Peace kind of shake things up a bit too much around here I guess.

Just my opinion, take it for what it's worth, one dudes opinion. Too much idealism and rhetoric, not enough in-context real world examples and practical ideas. It's the type of talk I usually expect from the so-young-that-they-don't-pay-taxes crowd.

edited 8th Apr '11 8:24:26 PM by Barkey

Really I think it has to do more with the tone and that. You always come off of angsty beyond comprehension. Plus you tend to jump logic and hound your empty point over and over ad infinitum.

I like you Barkey I always did you never attacked me you never just said I was this horrid leach you never acused me of anything. I have these views because they are a logical conclusion based on US history class and being raised b A Liberal mother and a Conservative Father. I'm establishing my identity around this and honestly think it's the best course of action we can take at this point I'm just sick of people here hating me.

See that is the angst I am talking about.

Angst? What Angst?

Does not apply. That refers to someone not angsting when they should. I doubt anyone hates you.

johnnyfog, They Call me Tomu, I'm starting to think Myrmidon.

Dude, you'll never go through life without somebody thinking you're obnoxious. I know I have plenty of people out there who dislike me, both online and off. Just gotta brush it off.

What you need to do a bit more of though, is to try and empathize, and tone down the extremism a bit so people will take you seriously. Honestly, my tactic of debating is to attempt to understand why a person thinks what they do, and if there is a gap in the logic I'll point it out. If it's a valid point from where they stand, I'll simply say that we both have different, yet valid, viewpoints, and that we'll just have to agree to disagree when they hit a brick wall.

Empathy dear boy, it's a wonderful thing. Research why other people think what they do and pay close attention, and let those findings either strengthen your conviction in your own beliefs, or perhaps change them. When you do it enough, your own beliefs become rock-solid and have the research and knowledge to back them up.

edited 8th Apr '11 8:37:12 PM by Barkey

tnu: I don't hate you I just wish you would A) Calm Down. Your paranoia does you a great discredit. B) I know this may be harping but you need to put more effort into your grammar and spelling.

As for the other stuff like political views folks we can teach him or help to be more objective/neutral possibly. We can also help him with his arguing style. No need to let the sinking man drown. How many of us had some help with something like that via the community?

edited 8th Apr '11 8:35:51 PM by TuefelHundenIV

Wow. That was rude. Thumped.

That's the thing if I compromise my principles that means I've conceded defeat.

^

It's not a compromise Tnu. If you have principles that you refuse to compare against the principles and arguments of others, that isn't being open to compromise, it's ignorance.

If your principles stand true to you after they weather every argument, fact, and bit of research thrown at them, you can legitimately feel that they are true. Instead of ignoring the opinions of others, you need to embrace them and learn from them. Knowledge, not ignorance, is the key to real conviction in your beliefs. A closed mind never learns, even when it's in error. The only reason to close your mind to the reason of others is because of insecurity and uncertainty that perhaps your principles are not correct in the end after all.

I am insecure and I don't know what to do about them. I have to remain consistent because that is a core aspect of my being.

No it is not. See this is why you cannot have nice replies.

Be consistent in using common sense and logic then. I don't have a set of political values that I consistently adhere to, all I try to do is analyze each individual issue and consistently use common sense and reason to figure out what I think the best course of action is. I do this for every single god damn thing.

If you're afraid you'll change your mind, don't be. If you don't change your mind, your convictions have been vindicated and pay off. If you do change your mind, you've advanced yourself as a human being and matured.

There isn't some static "right" or "wrong" that covers every situation. Use common sense, instead of just chucking a random political platitude at each issue that seems mildly related, actually open your eyes and look at the issue.

Being consistent in the wrong thing is destructive ignorance. Look at Republicans and particular, and Democrats to a lesser extent if you need living proof of that. Being consistent is not acceptable if you're consistently wrong.

edited 8th Apr '11 8:50:45 PM by Barkey

I guess and here's where a bit of paranoia comes in i'm of themindset that if you give the state an inch they'll go a mile. now Democrats supposedly socially liberal are using the whole "think of the children" schtik that I would expect from Republicans.

I believe that too, which is why I don't trust Republicans or Democrats, but it doesn't mean I don't listen to them and occasionally heed what they say when it's useful. When a Republican makes a very valid point on gun rights, I might agree with it and it goes in the "Useful research and validity of my views" category, when a Democrat says something I agree with about, say, abortion, so does that.

that makes sense since they advocate freedom on those fronts. the tyranical aspects are something I have a hard time accepting.

You don't have to accept anything, only listen. Actually listen, not just let the words roll through one ear and out the other. Listen to the whole argument and ask questions if you need anything clarified. Ask questions until you don't have anymore, if you think they are wrong, give them a concrete reason as to why, and with that, package how you feel it could be handled better. If they ask questions, answer them honestly and never make excuses. Repeat this process until one side is obviously wrong, or neither side is wrong and you have hit an ideological brick wall.

At worst be Socratic.

I used to be good atthis really. I got in to an argument with someone about zombies (i'm a strict Type V purist). I just can't put things together like I used to. when someone puts me on the spot I feel a need to make a speedy response so I don't do anything in the grounds of finding my sources again.