By The Power Of Greyskull vs. Invocation: By The Power Of Greyskull

Ok, I'd like to settle this: What's the difference between By the Power of Grayskull! and Invocation?

It's not listed in the Canonical List of Subtle Trope Distinctions, otherwise, I'd just edit the relevant page(s) and not bring it into the shop.

Heck, the Power Rangers entry under Greyskull Lampshades this confusion: "It is not entirely clear in which cases the phrase is By the Power of Grayskull!, and in which it is an Invocation."

By the Power of Grayskull! seems to be the more fleshed-out page: It has a Laconical page whereas Invocation does not, plus the former has the longer examples list (by a factor of 2.5) Also, Greyskull also lists Invocation while the converse is not true.

And yet, upon review of that article, Invocation mainly focuses on magic, Psychic Powers, and superpowers, with no references to Transformation*

; whereas most of Greyskull's description deals specifically with Transformations.*

^{Also, the Trope Invoker is invoking a Transformation Sequence.}

The Laconic for Greyskull, "Voice-activated phlebotinum," actually fits better under Invocation.

So here's my ides: Classify By the Power of Grayskull! as the Sub-Trope of Invocation dealing specifically with a Transformation Sequence. To that same end, relocate the current Laconic for Greyskull to Laconic for Invocation and restyle Laconic:Greyskull as "An Invocation for a Transformation Sequence."

The reason why I'm posting here is twofold: 1: To ensure consensus in this change,*

and 2: ...to enlist help in transferring (and duplicating where necessary) the examples.

EDIT: Had to include one word to save a red link...

edited 2nd Apr '11 8:46:47 PM by DonaldthePotholer

Ketchum's corollary to Clarke's Third Law: Any sufficiently advanced tactic is indistinguishable from blind luck.

After a 5 second check of both tropes, I'd say that the distinction is that By the Power of Grayskull! is when the phrase MUST be used to activate the ability, and Invocation is when its not, but you do it anyway for awesome points.

To use an example that occurs to me off the top of my head, in Pretty Cure Splash Star, Saki and Mai have to use the phrase "Dual Spiritual Power!" to transform into Pretty Cure. While in Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha, Nanoha sometimes says "Raging Heart, Set up!" to activate her Barrier Jacket and Raging Heart's device mode...but she doesn't have to.

edited 2nd Apr '11 8:53:38 PM by SakurazakiSetsuna

Invocation seems like it should be a Super-Trope. BTPOG is mainly to active super mode transformations.

I'm on the internet. My arguments are invalid.

I'd agree with that

I do agree with that too Invocation should be the supertrope but its not always used for transformations. Negima its required to cast spells (with wand, ring, earring or whatever.) there are 13 different ones so far each one unique to each person and Negima!? had it after the spell cast instead of before it was cast.

This trope does need clean up though Nanoha is listed on By the Power of Grayskull!.

edited 2nd Apr '11 9:31:17 PM by Raso

Sparkling and glittering! Jan-Ken-Pon!

By The Power Of Grayskull activates transformations.

Invocation just is using a word to invoke a power (required or not).

"Fireball!" to cast a fireball is an Invocation

"Power Up!" to use your McGuffin to change from Muggle to Hero is By The Power Of Grayskull.

We need to decide if By the Power of Grayskull! only applies if its actually required, or if simply frequent use is enough.

edited 2nd Apr '11 9:33:59 PM by SakurazakiSetsuna

Just to summarize to stay on track: We've deemed that By the Power of Grayskull! is a Sub-Trope of Invocation. What we're not clear on is "in what way?".

1. It's a Sub-Trope where the Invocation is required as opposed to optional
2. It's a Sub-Trope dealins specifically with Transformations
3. Both 1 & 2 above (An Invocation required to perform a Transformation Sequence and only a Transformation Sequence.)

EDIT: And now I found a possible Spanner in the Works... or it could be our answer: Magical Incantation. This trope appears to be a required Invocation that is used mainly for Spells. Whether Transformations would fall under that depends on the nature of the Transformation.

So that knocks out Option 1 by itself, Option 3 is still viable.

Still, I feel that we can start with:

1. Listing Greyskull as a subtrope of Invocation on the latter page (by way of Option 3).
2. Moving all examples in Invocation that fit #3 above to Greyskull
3. Moving all examples in Greyskull that neither are required nor deal with Transformations to Invocation.

edited 4th Apr '11 11:05:49 AM by DonaldthePotholer

Ketchum's corollary to Clarke's Third Law: Any sufficiently advanced tactic is indistinguishable from blind luck.

Option 3 sounds best then.

Fight smart, not fair.

I thought it was #2

Option 3 is what it meant when I first discovered it.

Everyone Has An Important Job To Do

3 is definitely what this trope should be.

3 sounds good

I laugh in the face of suffering.

Just to say that I've put it on my To Do List, but that means that I won't likely get into a full project until September. So, Up For Grabs.

Ketchum's corollary to Clarke's Third Law: Any sufficiently advanced tactic is indistinguishable from blind luck.

I'm okay with #3, as long as it doesn't exclude transformations that have secondary effects (such as lightning bolts, bright flashes, ect).

I'm good with 3. While we're at this, the entire Tabletop Games section appears to be made of misuses, under BTPOG.

Sakamoto demands an explanation for this shit.