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Man of Steel. Nolan Superman Reboot.:

 1901 Vox, Sat, 20th Jul '13 2:56:28 PM from Bisekmûthkat
Pathological Monster
Funny how the top comment says something to the effect of "Wow, MoS was a great Dragon Ball Z movie!" It made me think, would certain complaints about this movie have been completely assuaged if Zod had threatened to send everyone on Earth to ANOTHER DIMENSION, or if every time a building was smashed someone yelled "Good thing it's Sunday, or there would be people in there!"

edited 20th Jul '13 2:56:38 PM by Vox

 1902 Known Unknown, Sat, 20th Jul '13 3:00:30 PM from Here. There. Everywhere.
Fresh For 2014
Funnily enough, all of the villains except Zod were send to another dimension. Granted, the other dimension seems to be a vacuum, their ship broke wide open and none of them had spacesuits on, but... er...

edited 20th Jul '13 3:04:57 PM by KnownUnknown

"My final prayer: O my body, always make me a man who questions!" — Frantz Fanon
 1903 Tuckerscreator, Sat, 9th Nov '13 8:02:00 PM from The Death Star Relationship Status: The Skitty to my Wailord
Every film should end with a Deus T. rex Machina
So in preparation for Man of Steel's Blu-Ray and DVD release, a Q&A was held with Kevin Smith, Zack Snyder, and the two leads, and this article has compiled a list of their answers. But some of the stuff I just feel like responding to.

2. So it's official, there was indeed a collateral bodycount from Sup's and Zod's fight, Zach Snyder claiming it's at least 5000 dead. But I don't buy what he says that: "There's a sadness to the end of the movie — there's a human price, and that's what weighs on Superman." Nope, the ending felt pretty happy and triumphant, judging from the music playing. No sadness about the lives lost at all.

3. According to Cavill "[Sup]'s bullied and he trashes the guy's truck, which wasn't the right thing to do." Okay, but the movie treats it like the guy deserved it. "Later, of course, Clark must deal with the biggest bully in the world, and unfortunately the question of how to stop that kind of bullying has no peaceful answer." So bullies do deserve retaliation, or don't? Getting mixed messages here.

10. Superman wears a cape as a kid because "It's inside of him — he's pretending to be Kryptonian without knowing it, " explained Snyder. "It's an affinity towards what's natural in the Kryptonian culture." So... Kryptonians are genetically drawn to wearing capes. And yet none of the Kryptonians we saw in the prologue were wearing any. Huh.

That's all I gotta say about that.

edited 11th Nov '13 10:15:47 AM by Tuckerscreator

I hear it's amazing when the famous purple stuffed worm in flap-jaw space with a tuning fork does a raw blink on Hari-Kiri rock.
 1904 kalel 94, Sat, 9th Nov '13 8:15:49 PM from Dragonstone
Rascal King
Agreed that there's no "human price" implied in the film. Supes' sadness comes solely from killing a Kryptonian, and then it's on to the happy ending.

About the bullying, I think it's a case-by-case type deal. Superman could've walked away from the harmless guy at the diner without doing anything to him, but he doesn't. Later, when Zod won't relent and is causing thousands of deaths, then he has no choice.

Don't the Kryptonians wear robes though? They're kinda similar. Maybe that's what he's getting at.
The last hurrah? Nah, I'd do it again.
 1905 Canid 117, Sat, 9th Nov '13 9:56:11 PM Relationship Status: Hello, I love you
Snyder for all of his talent always comes off as kind of a dummy during interviews.
"War without fire is like sausages without mustard." - Jean Juvénal des Ursins
 1906 Hodor, Sat, 9th Nov '13 10:09:24 PM from Westeros
Cleric of Banjo
RE those comments:

  • In terms of the destruction, what is strange is that the movie really does present things in a very serious light.... up until the surprisingly happy ending. I wonder if that was a Focus Group Ending/done out of a need for the film to end on an uplifting note. So, I don't really think this is evidence of Clark/Superman taking things flippantly.

  • 5000 is a lot lower than I would have thought, so I guess Superman actually was doing a pretty good job. I don't bring this up to be flippant, but over 2, 000 people died in the World Trade Center attacks on September 11 and a lot more buildings were destroyed in the film than that, which is why I would have thought a lot more people died.

  • The bullying comment makes sense to me. The movie shows how Clark put up with all of this bullying as a child, unable to fight back out of (very justified) fear of killing someone, and that guy was more of the same. I think showing what he does with the truck is somewhat humorous, but I think it also shows Clark letting up repressed anger. And in respect to Zod and co., I like that comment about deliberately having Superman fight with brute force and no real skill (and up against enemies who did have such training). On the one hand, Superman is the only one who can stop them, but on the other hand, he's not really well-prepared for it. Tl; dr, I agree that the film sets Clark up to develop into someone who fights more gracefully and relies more on his intelligence (and causes less collateral damage).

  • Yeah, the thing with the capes doesn't make tons of sense. Why not just say there were fictional superheroes but no real ones (or I don't know, have Clark like The Three Musketeers or Dracula or some other fictional cape-wearing character(s)?

edited 9th Nov '13 10:10:02 PM by Hodor

Edit, edit, edit, edit the wiki
 1907 Corr Terek, Sat, 9th Nov '13 10:13:30 PM from The Bland Line
The Permanently Confused
Superman being a huge fan of Dracula needs to be canon now.
I don't really get the claims that the movie has a happy ending. Certainly it has a sense of optimism but it maintains a somewhat somber tone until the end. Compared to The Avengers, it doesn't try to ignore the serious collateral damage and death toll that happened. We know the final battle with Zod came about in later drafts, so that means originally the climax has them standing in the midst of the pancaked city center rather than a mildly damaged train station. Unless they take the fight right back to ground zero (sticking to Metropolis was stretching it already) that would have a different effect on the ending.

And Snyder is repeatedly saying that the destruction in this film will have repercussions, which is something I usually enjoy watching a greater story unfold. Specifically things the audience complains about are undermined by newer developments/revelations.

 1909 Hodor, Sat, 9th Nov '13 10:38:45 PM from Westeros
Cleric of Banjo
I agree with what you are saying, but I also think the last scenes of the film are a lot more upbeat than the events preceding them, and more upbeat than you'd necessarily expect given the amount of damage caused by Zod and co.
Edit, edit, edit, edit the wiki
The ending is hopeful in that Clark is finally accepted by some people like Lois after coming out to the world, and he seems to be happy with that (Glad to be here, Lois). But it comes with consequence. The government doesn't trust him and deploys drones on him and it's clear he still has a way to go before the world as a whole can truly accept him. So I wouldn't call it happy and cheerful, more optimistic in the face of everything that's happened.

I'm mostly disappointed in the fan event in that there wasn't really any news about the sequel. I was hoping for a tease or at least a chance for Zack to deny some of the crazier rumours that make the film sound like a weird cluster of random cameos.

edited 9th Nov '13 11:13:31 PM by ShadowScythe

 1911 johnnyfog, Sun, 10th Nov '13 2:22:59 AM from NYC Relationship Status: They can't hide forever. We've got satellites.
Not entirely a douche
The "repercussions" will be Luthor's fear-mongering and rise to power. Of that we're pretty certain. Because the character has, in the past, been largely a victim of protagonist-centered morality where nobody takes his credible views seriously.
PHD in Thuganomics
 1912 Corr Terek, Sun, 10th Nov '13 10:15:50 AM from The Bland Line
The Permanently Confused
Compared to The Avengers, it doesn't try to ignore the serious collateral damage and death toll that happened.

I really don't get why people say this. I mean, they have shots of people placing flowers at memorials and newscasters talking about the death and destruction. Politicians saying the Avengers need to be held responsible. This is not ignoring what happened.
 1913 Tuckerscreator, Sun, 10th Nov '13 12:03:42 PM from The Death Star Relationship Status: The Skitty to my Wailord
Every film should end with a Deus T. rex Machina
They're probably referring to The Avengers avoiding showing any civilian deaths. Except Man of Steel does the same thing. We don't see any civilians die. Even the building Sup gets thrown into is a completely empty office.
I hear it's amazing when the famous purple stuffed worm in flap-jaw space with a tuning fork does a raw blink on Hari-Kiri rock.
 1914 johnnyfog, Sun, 10th Nov '13 2:05:45 PM from NYC Relationship Status: They can't hide forever. We've got satellites.
Not entirely a douche
If anything The Avengers deserved a more somber ending. Earth is cognizant of its unimportance in the grand scheme, a pawn in interstellar wars between vast armies.

But, barring Brainiac, there aren't likely going to be any more Kryptonians invading and the world can rest easy.
PHD in Thuganomics
The Avengers had a much more lighthearted tone, the ending is overall a victorious "Look at how many people we saved" and "Let's get Shawarma" and a Stan Lee cameo rather than taking a long look at the destruction that happened. It worked for the movie and the tone of the whole MCU, but it's just a comparison to the complaints towards Man of Steel.

Man of Steel may not have shown a lot of explicit civilian deaths but a good portion of the climax involved seeing named characters like Perry and Jenny as well random civilians running from the chaos and destruction, including running for safety from a falling skyscraper. It was really quite a gripping depiction of what it would be like at ground zero of something like that, eventually Superman stops the threat but to them there is no sense that anything is being done to save them. The most seen in The Avengers was a little random street-level action scenes and Steve rescuing a group of people being randomly bullied by the Chitauri.

 1916 Tuckerscreator, Sun, 10th Nov '13 3:54:17 PM from The Death Star Relationship Status: The Skitty to my Wailord
Every film should end with a Deus T. rex Machina
There was Steve directing the police officers on evacuations, and the waitress Cap saved remarking about on TV. That doesn't seem very random if it's referred to again.
I hear it's amazing when the famous purple stuffed worm in flap-jaw space with a tuning fork does a raw blink on Hari-Kiri rock.
It was the Chitauri rounding up civilians for execution that seemed out of place, that's stuff you do after you have secured a territorial foothold and not in the middle of the initial invasion. But it was to give Steve a chance to be semi-useful in the battle and not just beat up footsoldiers in the streets.

 1918 Cruherrx, Sun, 10th Nov '13 5:07:44 PM from my own little world Relationship Status: Is that a kind of food?
Hunter
Pretty sure I saw random people dying on screen from falling debris, cars and the gravity machine. So yeah.
 1919 Canid 117, Sun, 10th Nov '13 7:03:27 PM Relationship Status: Hello, I love you
Oh yeah you definitely saw the gravity machine kill people.
"War without fire is like sausages without mustard." - Jean Juvénal des Ursins
 1920 Tuckerscreator, Sun, 10th Nov '13 8:42:20 PM from The Death Star Relationship Status: The Skitty to my Wailord
Every film should end with a Deus T. rex Machina
Not from my memory. Or at least it wasn't focused on. But memory is a fickle thing.
I hear it's amazing when the famous purple stuffed worm in flap-jaw space with a tuning fork does a raw blink on Hari-Kiri rock.
 1921 Cruherrx, Sun, 10th Nov '13 9:25:10 PM from my own little world Relationship Status: Is that a kind of food?
Hunter
Nope, it was focused on. You saw people, and cars going up into the sky and crashing back down.
You'd see people fly up with all the debris and scream and cry out. And then they'd pulse down...and then on the second rise up the people would be completely silent.

It's pretty brutal.

The one scene that really stands out is the collapsing skyscraper with Perry, Jenny and that other guy they barely mentioned diving into a parking structure to barely survive it. There were A LOT of people caught in that alone and next we see them Jenny was caught under debris while Perry and the other guy are trying to dig her out. It's just that we didn't get any close-ups of someone gasping in shock as a piece of concrete crushes them.

I'm going to repeat what the guy up top said: its Mo S that ignored its own civilian casualties, not Avengers. Avengers had relatively few civilian deaths, certainly. . . because it chose to make a narrative point of having the Avengers fight to contain the damage and draw the attack upon themselves. That isn't "ignoring" anything, that's dealing with the issue head on.

Man of Steel, by contrast, is written as if everyone other than a few named characters don't matter.
Home of CBR Rumbles-in-Exile: rumbles.fr.yuku.com
 1925 Cruherrx, Mon, 11th Nov '13 1:57:29 PM from my own little world Relationship Status: Is that a kind of food?
Hunter
Youre neglecting the circumstances. 6 people as opposed to just Clarke. What was he supposed to do, stop mid-fight and endanger many more people by leaving Zod momentarily unchallenged? Besides, it's not like Zod would've let him save ANYONE since he resolves to burn the world and force Clarke to watch. This is not Superman vs a legion of easily-dispathed cannon fodder; it's superman vs a being as god-like as him with actual combat experience.

So yeah, the Avengers had 3 muggles that could help the police save citizens while three supers confronted the alien force AND weren't dealing with beings as powerful as the Kryptonians.
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