A Beautiful Thread for the Beautiful Game

Yeah, I noticed that piece of ungrateful stupidity from PSG yesterday.

From: http://www.caughtoffside.com/2016/06/20/sacked-paris-saint-germain-manager-out-after-champions-league-disappointment-laurent-blanc/

"In three seasons at PSG, Blanc had a 73.26% win rate and led the club to three Ligue 1 titles, two Coupe de France titles, three Coupe de la Ligue titles and three Trophee des Champions titles. He was named the Ligue 1 manager of the year in 2015."

And they sack him for not winning the Champions League? How do they say what the club's owner is in French? Sale con? Yeah, that'll do.

PSG's massive star-studded squad is built solely to compete in UEFA competition. With their significant financial resources, nobody at domestic level can offer much of the same challenge and, consequentially, PSG are often punching way below their weight. And with mighty Zlatan (and, possibly, other big players) already on his way out, as well, there's not much harm in turning the page and giving the opportunity to revamp the team squad to a new manager.

Still, apparently, this news now puts Blanc in the running to succeed Hodgson at England ...along with... Arsene Wenger and Jurgen Klinsmann (which a large chunk of USMNT supporters would be more than happy with).

edited 30th Jun '16 7:40:39 AM by SeanMurrayI

Wenger has turned down several several offers from the French national team during his tenure at Arsenal, so it's unlikely he'd be willing to listen to any other national teams, either. (He's also turned down PSG and Real Madrid, so it's clear he's committed to Arsenal, at least until his current contract ends at the end of next season - by which point he'll probably have had a new contract offer from Arsenal, assuming that they look likely to finish in the top-4.)

Yeah, other articles I've seen on Arsene have already said as much, too. I really don't like to read a lot into job speculation in sports media until something becomes "official," and those names I dropped are no exception. I'm not one too sure if I'd think any of those names being thrown about for England are very much credible, personally. I just find buzz like this more "funny," if anything.

edited 30th Jun '16 8:17:22 AM by SeanMurrayI

Well here we go. I'm nervous, especially because Raphael is still injured and so, Eliseu has to come on. Kuba will have a fun time with him.

At least Renato is gonna start for the first time in these Euros (after being an impact sub in the last matches).

EDIT: Oh, foda-se... Lewandowski ended his dry record. 1-0 at the 2 minute mark.

EDIT: 1-1! GREAT GOAL BY RENATO!

edited 30th Jun '16 12:36:57 PM by Quag15

Ronaldo should've won a penalty. The equalizer that came shortly thereafter basically negates the issue, anyway, but the call should've been given.

WE'RE THROUGH! We scored really good penalties and Patrício defended the last one.

(relief)

I need to breathe.

edited 30th Jun '16 2:47:16 PM by Quag15

And you guys maintain your streak of not winning in regulation time.

edited 30th Jun '16 2:46:43 PM by nightwyrm_zero

Which is part of why I feel permanently nervous during these matches. But yeah, it's amazing how we haven't lost so far.

I think Bayern is pleased with Renato so far.

edited 30th Jun '16 2:48:43 PM by Quag15

Nani and Milik scored the best PK's. Was counting on Portugal reaching the final four.

Made you sweat, huh? :P

OK, I missed that match, but I gotta say, we did better than usual. Apparently Tusk's plan to improve youth football infrastructure back when he was still the prime minister paid off. Well, that and the local federation is not the butt of jokes any more, so they cleaned their act as far as organization and training goes.

But, to tie with Portugal and lose only in penalties is something.

More so than in the Croatia game, that's for sure.

As for Poland, I think you guys have a really good team. Good defensive wall, two top players (Lewandowski and Kuba - I would have included Milik, but he missed quite a few chances in the previous matches), good goalkeeping alternatives (Fabianski is quite good, for what I saw in these past matches), and you guys have the confidence to make it work.

After Renato's goal, your team kinda shut up shop (which was understandable - we also did that at times) and only made a few counter-attacks during the rest of the match, while probably expecting to triumph in penalties (since it's one of your specialities).

And, like you said, it's quite something to see Portugal winning against you guys with these penalties. It helps that Fernando Santos told the team to practice penalties as much as possible (something he learned after Greece's defeat against Costa Rica in the World Cup two years ago).

In any case, kudos to Poland. I can see you guys qualifying to the next World Cup. It would be nice to see Poland return there.

edited 30th Jun '16 4:15:37 PM by Quag15

Andrea Pirlo grills burgers like he defends corner kicks at Yankee Stadium—inadequately.^note Yankee Stadium's field is the worst place to play professional soccer in the world—worst in all of MLS, and especially ill-suited for much of the talent NYCFC has brought in from Europe, even for Frank Lampard. The playing field is even smaller—narrower—than at Stamford Bridge, and most anybody on the planet could chuck a throw-in into the middle of a penalty box with hardly any effort.

Four consecituve presences for Portugal in the Euro semifinals. They may not always win single-handedly, but the only other national team who can presume a consistency this good is Germany. Hopefully Wales will qualify as well so we have a beautiful-if-also-cruel fraticidial encounter between Bale and Ronaldo.

Also, .... wow, Del Bosque, way to Torch the Franchise and Run. I get that Casillas wasn't in his best shape,but did you really need to make public the conflict between him and you and/or the medical staff? Good thing you're already retiring from managing altogether, because your advanced age is already showing signs of senility.

"Advanced age"? Del Bosque is younger than Arsene Wenger and retiring at an earlier age than Sir Alex Ferguson.

Wenger will be 69 by the time his current deal with Arsenal ends. At that point, according to the articles I've read about this, the FA would be ready with the national team manager deal for him. (They'll have hired an interim manager to cover that one year.) I don't think Wenger's age will be the reason he refuses the job. Chances are, he'll have secured a top-4 finish (probably scraping through the final months of the season with the remains of a squad ravaged by injuries) and been handed a new deal at Arsenal, which he will take.

Wenger says he'll stay at Arsenal for as long as they'll have him, if he feels that he's doing an adequate job. That's why he always stalls with each new deal even though everyone knows he's had it on the table for a while. He wants to make sure he's meeting his own standards -i.e., keeping Arsenal in the Champions League. For Wenger and the club's board, the primary purpose of a football club at this level is to secure the financial benefits of participating in the Champions League each year. They don't want to aim higher than that, so they'll only improve the squad or make any changes at all when there's some change to react to. Usually that means other clubs signing top players or current players leaving.

This summer will be very important for Arsenal. With Xhaka they've basically covered for the departure of Arteta and Flamini (and then some), and of course Rosicky was already surplus; but Welbeck is injured for a long time, so there's no sufficient cover for Giroud. I'd say this would have been a great time to sign someone like Vardy (who instead used the Arsenal deal as a way to get a better contract with his current club) or even Zlatan. Thing is, Zlatan is going to Manchester United. I bet Wenger tried to offer him less than half of what he'll get and Manchester United. (If Arsenal did make an offer to him I'm assuming it will have been less than what they offered Vardy.)

Speaking of transfers: Juventus are rumoured to have tried and failed to buy Alexis. I don't see why Arsenal would let him leave - and, other than winning the Italian league by default without getting challenged, why Alexis would want to leave. Now there are stories about Real and Barcelona trying to sign Koscielny. At Arsenal, Koscielny will quite probably be made captain for next season. He's one of the top-4 (or maybe top-3) players at the club. I'm sure he'd get to start games at Real and Barcelona, but he'd never be as big as he is at Arsenal. He's settled at Arsenal, and I'm sure he's got a fairly nice deal by now. I don't see him leaving.

The Chinese league has been in the news again: Hulk was sold there for about £40 million (IIRC). It was reported as the largest transfer fee (so far) that any Asian club has paid. I'm a bit disappointed that he chose to go after the easy money, when he could have found himself a top club in Europe and try to win the Champions League. I'm sure there were clubs looking to sign him. Oh, well.

After Porto's 2011 Europa League win, if Hulk wanted to find a top club and truly vie for a Champions League title, he'd never have gone to St. Petersburg. Likewise, his former teammate Ramadel Falcao could've simply joined Atlético Madrid and have stayed there (and not bother with running off to Monaco in exchange for silly money and a torn ACL).

That said, it's worth reminding that the large chunk of transfer fees go directly to the clubs, while player contracts and wages are agreed upon separately. With the money Chinese clubs are throwing around, they've essentially been matching the same fees clubs had originally paid for players at a time when those players are already over (or nearly over) the physical peak of their playing careers. £25 million (or was that Euros?) for Chelsea's Ramires or £40 million for Hulk is utterly ridiculous money for aging players who are never likely to bring in a return on those enormous investments, but most European clubs are in no way going to refuse that kind of money because nobody else is ever going to come anywhere close to making the same crazy offer.

edited 1st Jul '16 9:37:44 AM by SeanMurrayI

I'm more disappointed in players than clubs in these cases because, as you said, the transfer fee normally goes to the selling club. The player can still refuse the trade (although I suppose that might be seen as unprofessional, at least in cases where the club is obviously very willing to sell).

For Hulk to agree to that trade you'd assume the Chinese club (I think it was Beijing something) must be paying him more money than any club in Europe was going to offer to him. That's on top of the transfer fee, obviously.

So if he can get X hundred thousand a week in (say) Dortmund or X+1 hundred thousand in China, he's picking China. As a follower of European football I would have preferred that he pick the slightly lower pay, because he would have been playing at a top club in Europe and competing for the European cups.

Now, I admit I don't know if Dortmund (or any such club) was actually offering Zenit enough to sell, or Hulk a competitive wage on top of that; presumably not, because the Chinese club's transfer fee was truly massive. Sometimes you get cases where the player has multiple offers on the table, and in those cases I would (selfishly) like it if they'd pick the most challenging option, rather than the one with the highest pay. Obviously, I know it's not fair of me to expect that of them; it's just a thought that occurs to me when these things happen.

EDIT: Some of this post is redundant because was edited while I was writing this.

edited 1st Jul '16 10:02:32 AM by BestOf

I'm certainly in agreement with all that.

The only thing I'd make additional note of is the passage of time. As I touched on previously (EDIT: before my additional edits) concerning Hulk, in particular, his market value and potential demand was hottest after Porto's amazing 2010-11 campaign, along with most everybody else of note at the club at the time. André Villas-Boas, at least, was quick to step up to to a greater challenge in England and the Champions League in deciding to return to Chelsea (no longer merely Mourinho's assistant◊), and buzz was swirling all around his players if many of them would be making similar moves in either following their manager to Chelsea or going to other top clubs.

Whatever offers Hulk may have received around that time, that's when he decided to follow the money to Russia, of all places, and ply his trade away from the limelight. Although he'd still see Champions League action in a handful of seasons, Hulk was never part of a team that could make it beyond the Round of 16. Following the move to Russia, the 2014 World Cup was the last time Hulk would get a serious opportunity to prove his worth, maybe get noticed by bigger clubs in Europe, and possibly force a move (if he was even looking for one) as he represented host nation Brazil, and... I know you're already familiar with how that went, and Hulk's stock has surely been in freefall ever since.

I don't know how many European clubs could have been interested in Hulk after 2014, but the Chinese Superleague offered him a way out of Russia.

edited 1st Jul '16 11:38:29 AM by SeanMurrayI

That about sums it up. It's frustrating that he didn't make his mark, but there you go. When - or if he's talked about in the years after he concludes his career I'm sure it will always be framed as a discussion of potential that was not realised. I suppose I can at least sympathise with that, what with being a fan of the European club that lives up to its potential the least.

I'm sure this discussion is being very interesting... but have you guys seen that Cruyff turn by Robson-Kanu?! Wales are really strong.

edited 1st Jul '16 1:21:10 PM by Quag15

Wales 3-1. I want a Wales-Iceland final!!

edited 1st Jul '16 1:44:25 PM by nightwyrm_zero

Now I'm scared...

Belgium 1 - 3 Wales at the moment.

I must say, even though Bale and Robson-Kanu and Williams have all been really good today - and Hennessey, as well - Ramsey has probably been the most hard-working and consistently excellent player for Wales in this game. His yellow card means he'll miss the next game, and I think that will be quite likely to take most of the quality out of Wales' midfield in situations where they have to either slow the play to allow a second wave to join the attack, or just transition from defence to attack with a couple of quick passes. I don't see anyone else on their bench with Ramsey's qualities. Sure, he's not scoring as often as he should be, but if I'm not mistaken he's already got 2 assists this game.

edited 1st Jul '16 1:47:25 PM by BestOf

Portugal-Wales semi-final—I called it! Yep, I did!