Multiple Definitions?: Dead Baby Comedy

Bumping. It would be nice to get this one finally settled.

edited 3rd Dec '11 8:47:49 AM by SeanMurrayI

To draw an analogy, much of it I think stemmed from people interpreting BC as the erotica to DBC's pornography, in the way that it's more subtle, noble, and, for the lack of a better word, softer. It's hard to define, and might not work for everyone.

For myself, I guess the most workable distinction is that BC usually has purpose behind it, more like a satire rather than mockery. A black comedy about nuclear war is likely to carry a pacifist message, while a DBC about nuclear war will only do it for laughs (at best, it's used to test whether people is easily offended by strong issues, but that's about it).

However, I agree with Tropetown #47: that way, it's somewhat harder to differentiate DBC to Crosses the Line Twice than DBC to BC.

And so. So far, I'm leaning towards a composite solution: make DBC a work or series that uses the brand of comedy outlined above. That way it's distinct from BC and CTLT.

I thought Dead Baby Comedy was about authors using their work to troll as much as possible, calling it comedy, and everybody else just goes along with it.

Isn't Black Comedy where they use the genre of comedy as medium to discuss a hot button topic? Similar to switching between literature and live action tv to discuss a topic.

There is a difference between those two definitions but it's hard to tell what's really going on in an author's mind. If you accuse them of writing dead baby comedy they'll probably just call it Black Comedy or the ykttw rage comics as a defense regardless of what their intentions were in creating the work.

edited 5th Dec '11 1:11:48 AM by jate88

The more I see this debate, the more I'm tempted to suggest cutting Dead Baby Comedy or merging it with Black Comedy.

What do you think? Is Dead Baby Comedy a valid genre? Is it sufficiently distinct from Black Comedy to warrant staying?

I think it's definitely sufficiently distinct from Black Comedy - but is it sufficiently distinct from Crosses the Line Twice? That I'm not sure about.

I certainly don't see Dead Baby Comedy as a genre. Not in any capacity.

At best, it's a place to collect jokes about dead babies or cruelty to babies, a supertrope to Eats Babies and the like.

edited 5th Dec '11 5:05:00 AM by SeanMurrayI

Based on people's responses, Dead Baby Comedy seems to be either a literally baby-centred trope like Sean Murray I said, or, a nebulous concept of a Darker and Edgier Black Comedy (if it's possible), either applied to series or individual scenes.

If we go by the first route, we must first determine whether dead baby jokes are prominent enough to be given its own trope.

If we go by the latter, it must be defined clearly first. People has been interpreting it in many different ways.

(I will try to catalogue (heh) these different interpretations and list them, but I haven't been this busy for a while. So maybe after a few days.)

edited 5th Dec '11 7:16:16 AM by Catalogue

Is merely having something involving dead babies or cruelty to babies for intended comedic purposes not prominent enough on its own already?

I mean, is it widespread enough? Why singling out cruelty to babies to other kinds of offensive humour?

Yes, it is. The frequency at which dead babies and baby cruelty are mentioned on Dead Baby Comedy (and in its wicks) already is a testament to that.

Because it's unique, identifiable, and objective, whereas what qualifies as "offensive humor" as a whole is a lot more subjective and makes it difficult to pin down "other kinds" with which to fit under one giant banner.

edited 5th Dec '11 8:15:37 AM by SeanMurrayI

If we can express it like that, I'm fine with such a split.

Split? I thought we were just redefining this.

Yeah, I meant split in definition.

And we'll need to decide what to do with entries that conform to the "offensive series" definition anyway.

Most could probably be moved to the more objective Black Comedy page, if they aren't filed under there already.

I'm pretty averse to the idea of a page for "offensive series", if only for being entirely YMMV (If not, flat out Flame Bait for anyone who wouldn't appreciate the notion that their favorite show is being deemed "offensive" by somebody).

edited 5th Dec '11 9:26:19 AM by SeanMurrayI

I'm fairly sure Dead Baby Comedy is just another term for Crosses the Line Twice in common usage - using it specifically for comedy about dead babies would cause immediate Trope Decay. I say just turn it into a redirect and merge the example lists.

Common usage I see (and have noted already) is generally attempting to describe an objective style of humor, more akin to Black Comedy. Descriptive content lacks the type of description (and subjectivity) which Crosses the Line Twice examples would be characterized by and demand.

Also, as I've observed, wicks which try and pin down exactly what objectively constitutes the presence of Dead Baby Comedy in a work, more often than not, only mention dead babies.

edited 5th Dec '11 1:30:40 PM by SeanMurrayI

I would argue that this sort of thing is a product more of the trope name then anything else. Literal dead baby comedy is probably tropable, but it's not really essential to what I see this page as being.

I still think a division needs to be made between comedy that portrays serious stuff as funny and tragic, and comedy that only portrays serious stuff as funny.

I don't know, that seems like a very strong Justifying Edit-bait.

I'd love to give you a response, but there's not much I can tell you when we don't know what exactly you see this page as being.

edited 6th Dec '11 7:51:12 AM by SeanMurrayI

This is essentially what the trope is, though it would be more accurate to say "comedy that makes light of controversial, serious subject matter.

Which is what Black Comedy already describes (and has described for decades), except without the subjective, difficult pin down, "controversial" qualifier.

edited 6th Dec '11 2:43:58 PM by SeanMurrayI

Except that Black Comedy can portray serious stuff as both funny and serious. Dead Baby Comedy, I think, portrays it only as funny, and also relies a lot more on "shock value". Like I said, it's very similar to Crosses the Line Twice, but I think it's pretty distinct from Black Comedy.

Except that when Black Comedy is only funny and not serious, it's still only Black Comedy.

The serious topic being touched on in a Black Comedy example isn't being taken very seriously, anyway... because it's comedy, and that's the whole point of comedy. "Shock value" is a completely superfluous qualifier, too. Not everything "shocks" everybody the same way, and even when a joke in a Black Comedy is "shocking" (and they certainly could be when it's explicitly written as covering themes including, but not limited to, "suicide, domestic violence, disease, insanity, fear, child abuse, drug abuse, rape..."), it's still just Black Comedy.

Separating the "shocking" examples of Black Comedy only makes this The Same But More Specific and not in a good way.

edited 12th Dec '11 6:48:58 PM by SeanMurrayI

I must agree. That "Black Comedy but *subjective judgement*" definition doesn't seem to serve much purpose to me. (Which is why I said the difference in people's minds is likely comparable to the difference between porn and erotica.)