Can anything be supernatural?

The mere concept of something existing outside of laws of nature seems strange to me. If something that we consider outside of physical law turns out to be existing, wouldn't it mean that we are simply wrong about laws of nature?

Note that explanation of such things does not have to be based on conventional physics. But if it turns out that wearing green ribbon and calling to Great Random three times does affect the chance of thrown coin to show tails, then this is how the world works. Why is it any less "natural" than the law of gravity?

If we disagree, that much, at least, we have in common

Nothing is impossible. We probably have that multiverse thingy flying around us. Therefor, anything supernatural in our Universe of cold hard logic and Physics can be explained by being connected to a universe where 2+2=Fish, or something.

If something supernatural existed, either it wouldn't be what it appeared to be, or it would be preternatural, rather than supernatural. Supernatural things are, by definition, impossible.

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From The Other Wiki

"The supernatural or supranatural (Latin: super, supra "above" + natura "nature") is anything above or beyond what one holds to be natural or exists outside natural law and the observable universe."

Something outside our observable universe causing something "Impossible" (Really don't like this word, absolutes annoy me) in our universe would logically be considered supernatural by definition.

Yes. That's why I prefer the term "paranormal." Normal is a matter of opinion or perception.

Stuff what I do.

Yes, but we can just keep extending the scope of "nature", until we get everything.

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Hence preternatural - appearing to exist outside the laws of nature as we currently understand them, but natural nevertheless.

edited 6th Mar '11 9:38:12 AM by BobbyG

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@ OP, no.

Fight smart, not fair.

Forget it, existence is built on contradictory and "Impossible" things. I can't possibly convince anyone that the supernatural does or does not exist, or vise-versa.

Edit: And what if there exist universes without any natural laws. At all. How do we classify that.

edited 6th Mar '11 9:49:58 AM by Ekuran

What people who throw the word around seem to forget is that "nature" is an all-encompassing state of affairs.

Enjoy the Inferno...

^^ That's a pretty weird concept and not one that it seems likely we'll have any need to classify any time soon, seeing as we have knowledge of only the one universe, and we understand very little about that, but OK, suppose some place exists "without natural laws". In such a place, wouldn't everything be natural? Or at least, anything could be natural.

edited 6th Mar '11 10:21:38 AM by BobbyG

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I'd like the supernatural to exist but until I actually see it, I'll just sadly remain a cynic.

We call it the supernatural because we all know perfectly well that it's not real. Some people just tell themselves otherwise really loudly.

Scepticism and doubt lead to study and investigation, and investigation is the beginning of wisdom. - Clarence Darrow

Logic Bomb

Isn't the point of the super natural the fact that we can't see it?

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The question that interests me is not whether this or that specific thing called "supernatural" exists, but how could it be considered supernatural if it was proved to exist

If we disagree, that much, at least, we have in common

No, the point of the supernatural is that it's outside the laws of nature. Something completely unobservable would just be completely unobservable.

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@Ekuran, we don't, because such a place cannot possibly exist. (At least, if it does, I know your mom's phone number.)

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@Tzetze: "No, the point of the supernatural is that it's outside the laws of nature. Something completely unobservable would just be completely unobservable."

Or it would appear completely random and arbitrary.

Try this: something is supernatural if it exists but outside any frame of reference the human mind can comprehend (leaving aside the issue whether or not such a frame of reference actually exists).

"We learn from history that we do not learn from history."

I’d imagine it would be considered “natural” at that point, a la ball lightening and then scientists would shift to attempt to recreate or better understand the phenomenon.

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Hmm, might be. But even then he/she/whatever would be the only supernatural thing in the world

If we disagree, that much, at least, we have in common

If God exists, I consider Him preternatural.

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I agree with the above statement (In that whatever example of "God" we find can be analysed in a Magic A Is Magic A situation within in the confines of what this "God" being is).

I also think that applying a concept of what's natural to places or things that aren't even within the concept of conception is an inherently futile task. Of course, this just speculation on my part. The Multiverse is fucking weird when you think about it.

Anything which exists is subject to the laws of physics. If something behaves in a way contrary to our current understanding of how the universe works, it is we who are in error, and our science needs to be updated to match the new evidence.

Accidental mistakes are forgivable, intentional ones are not.

Anything that is supernatural, could have rules applied to it. Perhaps we might find a magical creature, but as soon as its blood is drawn and we find it's made of atoms, it will instantly be demoted to the realm of the mundane.

Even the Christian God has some reason for being, and as soon as that is *known*, then that rule, however illogical, is made solid.

Nothing can be supernatural. Nothing can be even imagined that is truly supernatural. Even the most magical thing you could imagine would ultimately be demoted to mundane status.

As soon as one knows a fact about something, it becomes natural, and not super natural. Supernatural merely denotes something as being outside of observable nature - at least for the moment. It is still natural, as the name implies, it just hasn't been touched upon yet, as the "super" implies.

edited 9th Mar '11 1:17:06 AM by TheMightyAnonym

Where were you when I laid the earth’s foundation? Tell me, if you understand. Who marked off its dimensions? Surely you know! ~ GOD