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Messages in Kid's TV Shows
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Messages in Kid's TV Shows:

 1 Ian Ex Machina, Sat, 26th Feb '11 4:07:26 PM from Gone with the Chickens
The Paedofinder General
A lot of TV shows aimed primarily at kids have messages and morals attached to the particular story of the episode.

Which messages do you think should appear in Kid's TV and why?
I personally think the recent UK show of Rastamouse has a great message for kids:
"Rehabilitation not retribution"

Shown by the main character (Rastamouse) solving a mystery/crime and then helping the culprit "Make a bad ting good". I feel this message is valuable for kids to learn (and some adults too) as retribution 'eye for an eye' style is a harmful ideal to hold.

edited 26th Feb '11 4:11:43 PM by IanExMachina

By the powers invested in me by tabloid-reading imbeciles, I pronounce you guilty of paedophilia!
If someone touches you in a place or a way that makes you feel uncomfortable...

Don't play inside washing machines.

The Joke-Master
"Men are not hanged for stealing horses, but rather that horses might not be stolen."

"To embrace Communism is to abandon freedom."

"Socialism is the antithesis of freedom."

"Peace is a myth."

"Equality is a lie."

"Obey the law."

"Freedom is responsibility."

"Fat people are lazy and gluttonous. Don't be fat."

"Strive always to improve yourself; contentment is laziness."

"Respect others."

"Theft is abhorrent, as is the thief."

"Be honest always."

"Hard work pays off."

"Scorn the slothful."

"Self-indulgence is despicable; responsibility is to be lauded."

I've got a million of 'em.

edited 26th Feb '11 7:33:57 PM by Wanderhome

Peace is a myth. Equality is a lie.
 4 storyyeller, Sat, 26th Feb '11 7:41:33 PM from Appleloosa Relationship Status: RelationshipOutOfBoundsException: 1
More like giant cherries
^ As well as a bit of Values Dissonance
Life is simple: it has no nontrivial normal subgroups.
The Joke-Master
[up] Kind of my point, actually. Any moral in a children's show is going to be something that the creators of the show subjectively think is valuable.

ELABORATIONEDIT: Particularly things like "Rehabilitation, not retribution", or "Socialism is the antithesis of freedom". In either case, you're pretty much just spoon-feeding your political opinion to children.

edited 26th Feb '11 7:44:11 PM by Wanderhome

Peace is a myth. Equality is a lie.
They see me troll'n
I wish kids shows didn't have to have these bullshit messages in them. It ruins a good or even okay show.

Frankly, for every 'Good' message these shows send, there are a dozen others that are either bad, counterproductive, or overzealous.

edited 26th Feb '11 7:44:20 PM by CommandoDude

 7 storyyeller, Sat, 26th Feb '11 7:50:05 PM from Appleloosa Relationship Status: RelationshipOutOfBoundsException: 1
More like giant cherries
Well writers can't help subconsciously including themes they agree with, but I don't think they should intentionally add overt messages. Especially since it's usually counterproductive.
Life is simple: it has no nontrivial normal subgroups.
PARTY HARD!!!!
Alfie's Home
Where were you when I laid the earth’s foundation? Tell me, if you understand. Who marked off its dimensions? Surely you know! ~ GOD
 9 Milos Stefanovic, Sun, 27th Feb '11 1:43:42 AM from White City, Ruritania
Decemberist
OP: Nah, that doesn't work. I have always thought that more realistic and slightly cynical aesops in childrens' shows would be a good thing, even if it would make the Moral Guardians go nuts.
The sin of silence when they should protest makes cowards of men.
 10 Ian Ex Machina, Sun, 27th Feb '11 3:38:02 AM from Gone with the Chickens
The Paedofinder General
@ Wanderhome

Not me technically but I'd support the program's message, which is what my OP question was about.
Also you are never going to get to remove all of the messages from kids TV, if you remove all the intentional ones you are still left with the implied messages (such as; what is normal, how to act etc).

So whilst there are still intentional messages in the TV shows I'd rather support the ones that agreed with my views, as it would be quite stupid to support those that didn't.

Also Some Anvils Need to Be Dropped .
By the powers invested in me by tabloid-reading imbeciles, I pronounce you guilty of paedophilia!
 11 Mark Von Lewis, Sun, 27th Feb '11 3:39:09 AM from Somewhere in Time Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
KCCO
That Kerli is hot.

A message that is valuable in itself.
Run the red, won't stop at night, I don't care for traffic lights.
 12 chihuahua 0, Sun, 27th Feb '11 6:00:38 AM from Standoff, USA Relationship Status: I'm in love with my car
Writer's Welcome Wagon
[up] Do you know that Kerli doesn't have a TV Tropes page yet?

Never mind. She got one behind my back.

I think that all shows aimed at children over the age of five don't require a message.

edited 27th Feb '11 6:01:43 AM by chihuahua0

 13 Bobby G, Sun, 27th Feb '11 6:05:48 AM from the Silvery Tay
vigilantly taxonomish
If you hold a political opinion with any conviction, it ought to be something you think is right. In which case, why shouldn't that be your moral? If it's controversial, surely that makes it all the more important to perpetuate it?

If that's not acceptable, maybe kids' shows shouldn't have morals at all. The only other alternative is bland, wishy-washy morals like "friendship is good" and "sharing is good", which get boring after a while.
 14 Deboss, Sun, 27th Feb '11 6:11:34 AM from Awesomeville Texas
I see the Awesomeness.
kids' shows shouldn't have morals at all.

I'm Deboss and I support this message.
The Joke-Master
"Also Some Anvils Need to Be Dropped ."

No, no, no, and a thousand times no.

If you want to make a serious point, write an essay, publish a pamphlet, whatever, just present it in a way that is based on serious logical argument.

By wrapping up morals in works of fiction, they lose all real meaning as arguments, and start edging into outright deception. When you're embedding a political/moral idea in a work of fiction, you stack the deck in your own arguments favor. In the fictional world you create, of course your moral is going to be right, because the world is built around making it right.

It is dishonest and intellectually bankrupt to try to make a serious, real-world point through fiction.
Peace is a myth. Equality is a lie.
 16 Bobby G, Sun, 27th Feb '11 7:17:58 AM from the Silvery Tay
vigilantly taxonomish
I disagree. Some of the best books I've read have had messages to them.
While having aesops is good, I do not think their validity is necessarily proportional to the tendency of Moral Guardians to agree with said aesops.

For example, a lot of anti-drug propaganda severely misrepresents marijuana, the degree of misrepresentation has often been argued to be the REAL cause of the so-called gateway effect... and yet they go blaming this effect on marijuana itself. In light of things like this, I am inclined to doubt the claims of the social establishment as to what is a good or bad influence for children.

EDIT: And Wanderhome, sometimes if something is simply written in an essay it would not have as much impact. (Oh, so a million people are affected by this issue. A Million Is a Statistic. If, on the other hand, you write a story about someone affected by this...)

edited 27th Feb '11 7:21:14 AM by neoYTPism

I disagree. Some of the best books I've read have had messages to them.

Did you agree with all the messages inherent to each novel?

The Joke-Master
"I disagree. Some of the best books I've read have had messages to them."

I assume those were books with messages you agreed with. People generally enjoy hearing someone tell them that they're right.

In any case, the entertainment value of a work is irrelevent to the honesty (or lack thereof) of couching a political/philosophical argument within it.

"For example, a lot of anti-drug propaganda severely misrepresents marijuana, the degree of misrepresentation has often been argued to be the REAL cause of the so-called gateway effect... and yet they go blaming this effect on marijuana itself. In light of things like this, I am inclined to doubt the claims of the social establishment as to what is a good or bad influence for children."

So, because they paint something with most of the negative effects of cigarettes and alcohol combined, with a few more detrimental qualities besides, as bad, you are disinclined to trust them?

EDIT:

"EDIT: And Wanderhome, sometimes if something is simply written in an essay it would not have as much impact. (Oh, so a million people are affected by this issue. A Million Is A Statistic. If, on the other hand, you write a story about someone affected by this...)"

Your arguments on a given subject can also be rendered more effective with the use of manipulated statistics. It's still dishonest and bad argument.

edited 27th Feb '11 7:27:30 AM by Wanderhome

Peace is a myth. Equality is a lie.
"So, because they paint something with most of the negative effects of cigarettes and alcohol combined, with a few more detrimental qualities besides, as bad, you are disinclined to trust them?" - Wanderhome

The idea is not that they paint it as bad. The idea is that they severely misrepresent its effects. You can see this all over the place, even with the gateway argument itself.

Also, most? That seems like a very vague kind of wording, given all the toxins added to cigarettes, and the deaths they are known to causes, or that an alcohol overdose can kill you, whereas a marijuana overdose would just make you pass out. These and others would seem like pretty significant differences, however many similarities you could point out...

And you accuse anvilicious writers of intellectual dishonesty?

Guys, if you're going to start discussing about whether marijuana kills you or not, take it to another topic.

The Joke-Master
"And you accuse anvilicious writers of intellectual dishonesty?"

In the sense of "being dishonest in intellectual discourse", yes. In the sense of "plagiarism", no.
Peace is a myth. Equality is a lie.
 23 Bobby G, Sun, 27th Feb '11 8:00:37 AM from the Silvery Tay
vigilantly taxonomish
I assume those were books with messages you agreed with. People generally enjoy hearing someone tell them that they're right.

In any case, the entertainment value of a work is irrelevent to the honesty (or lack thereof) of couching a political/philosophical argument within it.

Not necessarily. I find the best books are often ones that make me think, and consider ideas I hadn't previously considered.

And I'm not seeing what's so "dishonest" about the practice.
 24 Ian Ex Machina, Sun, 27th Feb '11 10:24:43 AM from Gone with the Chickens
The Paedofinder General
No, no, no, and a thousand times no.

If you want to make a serious point, write an essay, publish a pamphlet, whatever, just present it in a way that is based on serious logical argument.

By wrapping up morals in works of fiction, they lose all real meaning as arguments, and start edging into outright deception. When you're embedding a political/moral idea in a work of fiction, you stack the deck in your own arguments favor. In the fictional world you create, of course your moral is going to be right, because the world is built around making it right.

So you wouldn't say an anvil of tolerance towards all races/sexualities shouldn't be dropped in kids TV?

Also good luck swaying a younger audience towards your argument with pamphlets and studies.

I wouldn't say it is dishonest, in the fact that the world can be created differently can be used to show views in ways that would be hard in a plain text essay, and with a story framing it make it easier to understand.
By the powers invested in me by tabloid-reading imbeciles, I pronounce you guilty of paedophilia!
 25 MRDA 1981, Sun, 27th Feb '11 10:28:52 AM from Hell (London), UK.
Tyrannicidal Maniac
I think communicating "messages" gets cringeworthy when the "show, don't tell" principle gets thrown to the wind.
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