Not all stereotypes are equal. The stereotype that you CAN'T pplay basketball is less demeaning than the stereotype that you got into college just because you got a basketball scholarship.
the statement above is false@Mark: Several hours of drinking is the best time for arguments on the internet. And I agree, while white privilege has a grain of truth to it in some places, it certainly isn't true everywhere.
@KCK: DG and I can accept that whites get preferential treatment in some parts of the country. Could you at least accept that its not universally true? and perhaps stop lumping all whites into the same life-experience category?
If I were to write some of the strange things that come under my eyes they would not be believed. ~Cora M. Strayer~@ Jethro: The examples you cited earlier are stereotypes, which can alter depending on demographics: hardly an inherently "white" thing.
And, as a black man, I remember walking into stores and being near-stalked by black security guards in my youth.
edited 26th Feb '11 11:11:43 AM by MRDA1981
Enjoy the Inferno...@Drunk Where have I lumped all white people in the same category? I do not generalize, I have made it clear several times that this phenomena of racial tension only in places where whites are in the majority.
@Beholderess Because many people foolishly forget to quantify their statements, they may say "white people" when what they really mean is "white people in America".
edited 26th Feb '11 11:14:47 AM by KCK
There's no justice in the world and there never was~What privileges, exactly? As far as I see it, being discriminated against because I'm a poor white female is really no different than you being discriminated against because you're a poor black female.
"I don't know how I do it. I'm like the Mr. Bean of sex." -DrunkscriblerianIronically my own twin brother is pissed that the government gives me better health care support and less hassle over job security due to the fact that I have ASD and he doesn't - which leaves him in the hard to define "white privilege" category. Because he's not disabled and I am, he tends to resent the idea that my parents have different expectations of me as opposed to him.
Also, Asian people (EDIT: that I know personally) can only figure out what ASD is because they know about L from Death Note. (and even THAT'S disputable since it was never confirmed in the manga or anime). My Chinese piano playing friend says that when China becomes the world leader, he will put in a good word for me. A great deal of this cultural posturing on his part is ironic in nature. He tends to hate illegal Chinese immigrants for giving people who were born here like him a default stereotype that bogans fling at him and people like him with no knowledge of what Asian culture he is actually from, let alone whether he is an actual illegal immigrant or not (boatperson, in bogan speak).
If I have learned anything with my interactions with other cultures, it's that people who aren't white hate racism, but they are concerned that perhaps, white guilt and deep anxiety over offending them is equally as bad and even annoying.
edited 26th Feb '11 11:15:50 AM by NewGeekPhilosopher
Hell Hasn't Earned My Tears@MRDA: ...As I have been stalked by white security guards. It probably had less to do with skin color and more to do with the fact that I was dressed like a biker.
Look: Cops (and security guards for that matter) have a job, which is to prevent theft and violence. One screw-up can be costly for everyone. So, they're going to zero in on people whom they believe to be a problem, and oftentimes this has little to do with race.
I used to work the door at a bar, and I can tell you that I kept an eye on these two black guys who came in regularly. Not because they were black, but because they were dressed like gang-bangers, wore gang colors I recognized, and were perpetually loud and obnoxious. Was that racism? I don't think so.
I kept a closer eye on the white customers I already knew were problem-causers.
I'm not saying profiling doesn't exist, just that it might be less common than you believe.
@KCK: And I'm saying the same thing isn't true up here. If anything, its the reverse (ironically enough because black people are reallyrare in WA). I've been to the Deep South, I have relatives there, and I know racial tension (and prejudice) are rampant where you live. We're just saying that being white is not an automatic guarantee of privilege everywhere.
edited 26th Feb '11 11:17:02 AM by drunkscriblerian
If I were to write some of the strange things that come under my eyes they would not be believed. ~Cora M. Strayer~@Drunk G [sighs] The difference is I'm black and you're white and black people are often expected to be poor or in poverty. We have a racial attribute to our poverty, and you do not.
@Drunk But it's common enough that exists in most places and not just the South; this happens in the Midwest, the North, the West, the East, anywhere where there are more white people than minorities.
edited 26th Feb '11 11:19:54 AM by KCK
There's no justice in the world and there never was~@KCK: I dunno about that. I regularly get people that think I'm redneck trailer trash.
"I don't know how I do it. I'm like the Mr. Bean of sex." -DrunkscriblerianKCK: And white people are all assumed to be racists who can't understand other group's problems.
Which is, incidentally, what you're doing right now.
edited 26th Feb '11 11:20:06 AM by Chagen46
"Who wants to hear about good stuff when the bottom of the abyss of human failure that you know doesn't exist is so much greater?"-WraithSo why are assuming that a discussion about a general societal trend is aimed at one person in particular, now?
You can't even write racist abuse in excrement on somebody's car without the politically correct brigade jumping down your throat!@Chagen 46 Don't start accusing me of being racially insensitive, son. Nowhere have I stated that all white people are nothing but racists. What I am saying is that members of the minority experience things differently than the members of the majority. Why is that such a hard concept to understand?
There's no justice in the world and there never was~@KCK: Differently, yes. But that doesn't mean that Drunkscriblerian and I have it better just because we're white.
"I don't know how I do it. I'm like the Mr. Bean of sex." -Drunkscriblerian@KCK: It's not. "Differently" is one thing, "Better" is another. We've acknowledged that your skin color doesn't buy you any favors where you live. All I'm asking is that you acknowledge that mine doesn't buy me any favors where I live. Is that so hard to understand?
If I were to write some of the strange things that come under my eyes they would not be believed. ~Cora M. Strayer~Because it's not a whites vs. blacks thing. Security guards regardless of their own background, look at these situations through the lense where the norm — neatly dressed white adults — aren't worth scrutiny, but anyone esle is.
Now, I don't know how your life has gone, but the fact is, that people of different ethnic background than the hegomeny will be treated differently, and will be seen mroe as a group, than as individuals.
the statement above is false@Drunk G Everything isn't about the two of you, this is about a social phenomena that occurs in society at large; there exceptions to every rule, but that doesn't make the rule invalid.
@Drunk Dammit man, this isn't about you! This is about society at large.
edited 26th Feb '11 11:29:32 AM by KCK
There's no justice in the world and there never was~edited 26th Feb '11 11:29:11 AM by Beholderess
If we disagree, that much, at least, we have in commonWhich is, incidentally, what you're doing right now.
Hai gais, how do I flame bait?
Anyway, I'm white, and I'm on KCK's side. But I guess I don't count because I'm a race traitor multiculturalist.
@Drunk: You appear to have piled on a shitload of assumptions regarding my statement.
I never said I was stalked for being black; in fact, I mentioned it as a counterexample to the whole "white privilege" thing.
Also, since I'm not "loud", or "gangbanger" in manner or appearance, I failed to see how I warranted special attention in most of those scenarios.
Enjoy the Inferno...@Beholderess I don't believe that, but this is all happening because of the history of racial tension in America.
There's no justice in the world and there never was~@KCK: That's not it. We're saying that precisely because black people are so rare up here (and the Northwest does not have the Civil-War era racial tension of, say, the Deep South), being white's so normal that it doesn't buy any favors. Blacks (is that an acceptable term?), if anything, have it easier because no one wants to offend them.
Example: there were exactly two black students in my high school of over 1500. One of them was a friend of mine, and he'd get people asking to touch his hair (because they'd never seen anyone with an afro before). There was a lot of fascination, but not a lot of discrimination.
Hispanics get a lot of crap though, because we have a large population of illegals. So do the Eastern European/Ukrainian immigrants, because they keep to themselves and there's a connection between them and crime (somewhat unfair but not entirely undeserved).
Short form; its different up here. Just like I know its different down there. "White privilege" is a sweeping generalization that isn't true everywhere.
If I were to write some of the strange things that come under my eyes they would not be believed. ~Cora M. Strayer~edited 26th Feb '11 11:33:46 AM by Wicked223
You can't even write racist abuse in excrement on somebody's car without the politically correct brigade jumping down your throat!To elaborate more on privilege. White privilege is not the only one. There is male privilege. There is class privilege, there's ability privilege, sexuality privilege, look privilege, age privilege.
The assumption in our (American/European) society is a healthy, middle class white heterosexual male. Deviating from the norm means lacking privilege. It means you are less liekly to be treated as an individual, and more as a member of whichever minority you belong to.
[ed.]
Regardless of how you acted (you said you're not loud), the fact that you were a black teenager made you a suspect, more tha you would be than if you were a white teenager, or a black adult. The fact that the guards were black doesn't change the fact that they, as an extension of society, see black youth as suspects.
edited 26th Feb '11 11:37:00 AM by JethroQWalrustitty
the statement above is false
@Mark It's only overblown because you don't have to deal with it.
There's no justice in the world and there never was~