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Arranged marriage:

 1 Rottweiler, Thu, 24th Feb '11 9:23:15 AM from Portland, Oregon
Dog and Pony Show
Starting a new thread so "DOMA" can rerail to the ethics of homosexual marriage.

Karalora said:
So in your ideal society, no one would be allowed to choose their own spouse and divorce would be illegal? Oh, yeah, that's a recipe for healthy families, all right.

Do you have any empirical evidence of a causal relationship between arranged marriage and unhealthy families? Because I've been to India and I spent a lot of time in an Indian-American community and what I saw were loving families, not families more dysfunctional than Anglo choice-based ones.

Who am I gonna believe, you or my lying eyes?

You're an adult; there's nothing stopping you from moving to a country more to your authoritarian tastes.

I have family here.
“Love is the eternal law whereby the universe was created and is ruled.” — St. Bernard
Failed Comic Artist

This post was thumped by the Shillelagh of Whackingness
I dont know why they let me out, I guess they needed a spare bed
 3 Drunk Girlfriend, Thu, 24th Feb '11 9:25:50 AM from Castle Geekhaven
I dunno, but if I was stuck with the guy my parents wanted me to marry, I would have killed myself already.
"I don't know how I do it. I'm like the Mr. Bean of sex." -Drunkscriblerian
Failed Comic Artist

This post was thumped by the Stick of Post Thumping
I dont know why they let me out, I guess they needed a spare bed
 5 Ratix, Thu, 24th Feb '11 9:29:19 AM from Someplace, Maryland
Because I've been to India and I spent a lot of time in an Indian-American community and what I saw were loving families, not families more dysfunctional than Anglo choice-based ones.
Given your propensity to reference this or that journal or study, I find it surprising you're making the fallacy that anecedote implies statistics.

Anyway, I oppose arranged marriages, on the grounds that it's main function is to utilize women as a bartering tool. It's no longer socially necessary; women are permitted, indeed encouraged, to seek their own means and successes, and thus the freedom to choose who they marry and what families they raise.

 6 Fighteer, Thu, 24th Feb '11 9:29:53 AM from the Time Vortex Relationship Status: Dancing with Captain Jack Harkness
Rott, much depends on setting cultural expectations and then sticking with them. If Indians are raised to expect that they will be in an arranged marriage and that this is a cultural norm, then there won't be any dissonance between their values and the actions expected of them. That said, I've read stories about that style of arranged marriage that say there's quite a bit more to it than, "Here's your bride, now kiss her and go off and make babies." There's a great deal of social structural support around the institution and many/most meet their betrothed as children and get the chance to grow accustomed to one another.

It's a far cry from the history of arranged marriage in Western culture, which boils down to slave trading/institutionalized rape at worst, and at best involves an arranged spouse who does the "family duties" and plenty of mistresses on the side.

edited 24th Feb '11 9:30:28 AM by Fighteer

Ironically, the pursuit of the definition of happiness does not appear to be a happiness-maximizing behavior.
Arranged marriages can work quite well, as long as they are not forced. What measures are there to keep it from being forced? Note that formal requirement for both parties to say "yes" is not enough, as the pressure of the family can be inescapable.
If we disagree, that much, at least, we have in common
 8 MRDA 1981, Thu, 24th Feb '11 9:32:05 AM from Hell (London), UK.
Tyrannicidal Maniac
[up] Beat me to it. Not that I care that much about marriage, one way or the other.

edited 24th Feb '11 9:32:16 AM by MRDA1981

 9 Rottweiler, Thu, 24th Feb '11 9:34:41 AM from Portland, Oregon
Dog and Pony Show
Given your propensity to reference this or that journal or study, I find it surprising you're making the fallacy that anecedote implies statistics.

I've seen some of the sociological literature, but it takes research time to pull up citations, which I don't have time to do until after my 10:00 am class.

I'd say something about assuming the worst about me, but I'm so used to it.
“Love is the eternal law whereby the universe was created and is ruled.” — St. Bernard
 10 Fighteer, Thu, 24th Feb '11 9:36:06 AM from the Time Vortex Relationship Status: Dancing with Captain Jack Harkness
Out of curiosity, Rott, do you believe that spousal rape is possible? That is, is it something that can occur by definition within your values system? If yes, then you have to acknowledge that arranged marriage is not a perfect solution. If no, then, well... I'm not sure I want to complete the thought about how I regard you as a human being.
Ironically, the pursuit of the definition of happiness does not appear to be a happiness-maximizing behavior.
 11 Mark Von Lewis, Thu, 24th Feb '11 9:43:14 AM from Somewhere in Time Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
KCCO
When it comes to arranged marriage, my thoughts are "it's a good idea until you get stuck with a real ugly specimen of a woman."

Run the red, won't stop at night, I don't care for traffic lights.
Depending on culture, they are more or less accepted. But it's easy to misuse - just think about the average marrying age that goes hand in hand with it. If you get 12 year olds expecting to bear children, the whole thing starts to become creepy for most people.
Also, we believe in the Power of Love.

 13 Mark Von Lewis, Thu, 24th Feb '11 10:03:08 AM from Somewhere in Time Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
KCCO
Power of Love! (80's power ballad starts playing)
Run the red, won't stop at night, I don't care for traffic lights.

This post was thumped by the Stick of Off-Topic Thumping.
Stay on topic, please.


 15 Mark Von Lewis, Thu, 24th Feb '11 10:11:39 AM from Somewhere in Time Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
KCCO
What? Do you mean my comment about getting stuck with an ugly specimen, no I was just saying that to be funny.
Run the red, won't stop at night, I don't care for traffic lights.
 16 storyyeller, Thu, 24th Feb '11 10:17:49 AM from Appleloosa Relationship Status: RelationshipOutOfBoundsException: 1
More like giant cherries
Arranged marriages aren't necessarily bad, but they aren't necessary either.
Life is simple: it has no nontrivial normal subgroups.

This post was thumped by the Stick of Off-Topic Thumping.
Stay on topic, please.


 18 Mark Von Lewis, Thu, 24th Feb '11 10:20:17 AM from Somewhere in Time Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
KCCO
Huey Lewis and the News? Ah, ok. No I was just making a power ballad joke because it seemed like it'd fit the power of love thing.

But I digress. On the whole, arranged marriages don't seem inherently evil, but at the same time I do think choice is better.

Although often people choose poorly, I'll defend their right to choose to the death, I will.
Run the red, won't stop at night, I don't care for traffic lights.
 19 Ratix, Thu, 24th Feb '11 10:30:00 AM from Someplace, Maryland
I'd say something about assuming the worst about me, but I'm so used to it.
In hindsight, that was rather jerky of me, so I apologize.

Moar and Moar and Moar
I have a friend who's been married via an arranged marriage. (Long story) I don't believe he's quite happy in it. That said, the way it was done, where it's not out of the blue but the individuals are well known to each other/spend time with each other, etc. I don't think it's impossible to result in a situation where they are happy. In fact, I think that one could even make the argument that it's a legitimate way to do things. But that said, it's not going to always work, and there needs to be room for individual choice in the matter.
Democracy is the process in which we determine the government that we deserve
Agreed. It can be a good way to marry, but shouldn't be the only possible way.

I do think that modern culture puts way too much importance on romance as the necessary and only prerequisite to marriage, by the way, and would not be opposed to arranged marriage as a legitimate alternative.

But arranged marriage is associated with forced one for most people, and not without reason. This association is understandable, considering that these two often go together. So it is important to make a clear distinction between "arranged" and "forced" when talking about this subject.
If we disagree, that much, at least, we have in common
 22 Drunk Girlfriend, Thu, 24th Feb '11 10:51:14 AM from Castle Geekhaven
@Beholderess: How is there a difference between arranged and forced marriages? In one, somebody else picks out who you marry, and in the other, somebody picks out who you marry.
"I don't know how I do it. I'm like the Mr. Bean of sex." -Drunkscriblerian
In arranged marriage people still can refuse. Parents help with picking a suitable candidate, but the final word is children's.
If we disagree, that much, at least, we have in common
 24 Mark Von Lewis, Thu, 24th Feb '11 10:56:22 AM from Somewhere in Time Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
KCCO
So in essence an arranged marriage is not unlike using a matchmaking service?
Run the red, won't stop at night, I don't care for traffic lights.
It's not exactly the same, but it's similar.
 
Total posts: 102
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