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Split off "Good Versus Evil".: Black And White Morality

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DragonQuestZ The Other Troper from Somewhere in California Since: Jan, 2001
The Other Troper
#1: Feb 15th 2011 at 3:30:50 PM

Good Versus Evil and Black-and-White Morality certainly overlap, but they aren't quite the same thing, especially when there are increasingly numerous stories which have the forces of good versus the forces of evil, but apply other Shades of Conflict in them.

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RhymeBeat Bird mom from Eastern Standard Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: In Lesbians with you
Bird mom
#2: Feb 15th 2011 at 3:32:45 PM

Agreed. Avatar The Last Airbender is ulimately a Good Versus Evil story but lacks Black-and-White Morality. Same is true of Harry Potter and countless other series.

edited 15th Feb '11 3:34:09 PM by RhymeBeat

The Crystal Caverns A bird's gotta sing.
Raso Cure Candy Since: Jul, 2009
Cure Candy
#3: Feb 15th 2011 at 3:33:27 PM

IIRC these were Merged a while back. (But I completely agree on splitting.)

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Deboss I see the Awesomeness. from Awesomeville Texas Since: Aug, 2009
I see the Awesomeness.
JustaUsername from Melbourne, Australia Since: Jul, 2009
#5: Jun 25th 2011 at 9:21:50 AM

Um...this thread has been around for over four months...are we going to split or not? (Personally I'm for the split! Sometimes Good isn't so White and Evil isn't so Black...)

Some people say I'm lazy. It's hard to disagree.
Discar Since: Jun, 2009
#6: Jun 25th 2011 at 9:48:50 AM

Another vote for split. There can be clear good guys and clear bad guys without falling fully into Black-and-White Morality.

Raso Cure Candy Since: Jul, 2009
Cure Candy
#7: Jun 25th 2011 at 10:37:19 AM

Forgot about this... Should we run a quick crowner? There seems to be no opposition though.

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JustaUsername from Melbourne, Australia Since: Jul, 2009
#8: Jun 25th 2011 at 11:19:19 AM

It might be a good idea to have a crowner, the people's opinion more ambiguous than it seems.

Some people say I'm lazy. It's hard to disagree.
JustaUsername from Melbourne, Australia Since: Jul, 2009
#9: Jul 6th 2011 at 9:01:02 PM

Er...bump?

Some people say I'm lazy. It's hard to disagree.
tropetown Since: Mar, 2011
#10: Jul 25th 2011 at 10:37:57 PM

Sounds like a legitimate split... a lot of stories have pretty good guys that aren't so white and pretty bad guys that aren't so black. You can still have a good side and an evil side, but have the individual characters on each be more like a Morality Kitchen Sink.

edited 25th Jul '11 10:39:13 PM by tropetown

poiuz Since: Dec, 1969
#11: Aug 8th 2011 at 11:38:22 AM

I'm against a split. Good vs. evil is an appropriate synonym for black and white morality, and I don't see the gain in a split if there are already tropes which contain the other cases (grey and gray/Black/white)

Antheia from Uppsala, Sweden Since: Jan, 2001
#12: Aug 8th 2011 at 12:00:01 PM

I support a split. Black-and-White Morality sounds like it should be about the less nuanced cases, while Good Versus Evil sounds much wider in scope.

Xtifr World's Toughest Milkman Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
World's Toughest Milkman
#13: Aug 8th 2011 at 12:54:48 PM

definitely support a split.

Speaking words of fandom: let it squee, let it squee.
shimaspawn from Here and Now Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: In your bunk
#15: Aug 8th 2011 at 7:14:37 PM

Black-and-White Morality sounds like morality that never has any shades of grey to it. It is always stark, and consistent. There are no anti-heroes. No one ever does anything morally ambiguous. The evil characters are never sympathetic and never do anything nice ever.

Good vs. Evil is much broader. There are shades of grey in it. It's the supertrope and it's an eternal struggle that is both internal and external.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
helterskelter Since: Nov, 2009 Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#16: Aug 8th 2011 at 7:19:38 PM

A split is necessary, I think. These are different tropes.

MousaThe14 Writer, Artist, Ignored from Northern Virginia Since: Jan, 2011 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Writer, Artist, Ignored
#17: Aug 8th 2011 at 7:31:57 PM

We a need a split, they're two different things. One is about actual good and evil, and the other is about absolute extremes with no shades of grey regardless of whether they are good and bad.

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Nyarly Das kann doch nicht sein! from Saksa Since: Feb, 2012
Das kann doch nicht sein!
#18: Aug 9th 2011 at 6:14:15 AM

Split. On the surface, they look like the same, but not always is good completely white and evil competely black.

edited 9th Aug '11 6:14:43 AM by Nyarly

People aren't as awful as the internet makes them out to be.
TBeholder Our future is a madhouse from chthonic safety Since: Jan, 2001
Our future is a madhouse
#19: Aug 9th 2011 at 7:46:46 AM

Those are simply two different things - one is a binary way of measurement, another is an axis to which it may sometimes be applied. So it doesn't fit on the other side either: "honorable-dishonorable", "necessary-needless", "blue-orange" may be played as extremely Black-and-White Morality, and still (or even especially in such cases) have very little to do with Good Versus Evil.

...And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense - R.W.Wood
Icarael is All Elite from The Taguig Sprawl Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
is All Elite
#20: Aug 13th 2011 at 11:29:47 AM

I suppose Good Versus Evil is going to be part of the Omnipresent Tropes?

"Stealing is a crime and drugs is a crime too BUT if you steal drugs the two crimes cancel out and it’s like basically doing a good."
Xtifr World's Toughest Milkman Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
World's Toughest Milkman
#21: Aug 13th 2011 at 11:39:51 AM

[up]I don't think it gets a lot of play in slice-of-life fiction, which is a pretty common and widespread genre, so I'd be inclined to say no, but don't feel strongly about it.

Speaking words of fandom: let it squee, let it squee.
BioTube Since: Dec, 1969
#22: Aug 13th 2011 at 1:37:36 PM

And what about Evil Versus Evil or flat out Grey-and-Grey Morality?

edited 13th Aug '11 1:38:12 PM by BioTube

Raso Cure Candy Since: Jul, 2009
Cure Candy
#23: Aug 13th 2011 at 1:43:04 PM

Flat out Good vs. Evil is pretty much a stock Fantasy thing. (or Propaganda)

Sparkling and glittering! Jan-Ken-Pon!
crazysamaritan NaNo 4328 / 50,000 from Lupin III Since: Apr, 2010
NaNo 4328 / 50,000
#24: Aug 13th 2011 at 6:13:33 PM

The current write-up and examples tell us Black And White And Gray Morality.

What is an example of Black-and-White Morality that does not invoke Good Versus Evil ?

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NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#25: Aug 13th 2011 at 6:16:42 PM

Black-and-White Morality is a subtrope of Good Versus Evil. The former is completely and spotlessly good versus wholly and entirely evil, with no "shades of grey" (ie, some good and some evil in the same person/group). All Black-and-White Morality is also Good Versus Evil, but not all Good Versus Evil is Black-and-White Morality.

edited 13th Aug '11 6:17:07 PM by NativeJovian

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.

SingleProposition: BlackAndWhiteMorality
8th Aug '11 12:57:32 PM

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Vote up for yes, down for no.

Total posts: 46
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