China overtakes Japan as world's second-biggest economy

Here and here.

OMG WE R LIVIN IN TEH END TIEMS CHINA IS GUNNA RUL TEH WURLD

Also, I love this quote: "As an economy, we are not competing for rankings but working to improve citizens' lives," said Economics Minister Kaoru Yosano.

That's pretty much the opposite of what China are trying to do.

edited 14th Feb '11 4:38:19 AM by SoberIrishman

Its kind of sad how strong your economy gets when you ignore all forms of workers rights and safety standards.

Why is that sad? It's like overclocking a computer, it works until it explodes.

Yeah, I just dont hate China enough that I want their economy to collapse on itself, or all their workers die.

I suppose it provides a new data point in "you can improve production by sacrificing worker safety" but I think it's restricted to lower technical requirements. I'm curious if it's more the culture or the large population base that lets it work like that.

Its possible. I mean, with that amount of people, and the economy the way it is, Im pretty sure the employers could sell their employees organs on the black market at this point, and they still wouldnt complain.

Mmm, I don't see your point. Worker safety and conditions in China have vastly improved over the last 20-30 years. Remember, they were coming out of the Iron Bowl doctrine and rule by Mao. Considering that liberalisation of the economy and civil/economic rights since the 80s have been quite significant, it seems to me that granting more rights is what got them this position, not sacrificing them.

So, if China sort of self-destructs, what happens to all that debt of ours they own?

That's actually an interesting question, considering how financial systems work.

First off, you might celebrate that you no longer have to pay back about 3-4 trillion in debt that they own (I forget the exact number). But then it means your largest guy backing your government is suddenly gone and you have nowhere to borrow to keep funding your government. That means all your social services suddenly collapse because nobody is paying for it anymore.

I think, the first to go is the military, then research, then social security and welfare and then all forms of healthcare and lastly are your most basic services such as education, roads and other things. Oversight and regulatory agencies would bottom out and your taxes would rise. If you don't have a tax hike then your government simply just collapses.

How terrible the collapse would be is hard to say. Trade is going to be busted so you immediately lose a significant chunk of business (jobs aren't going to flow back here, it's more a matter of economic reorganisation in America where you work again at manufacturing except at ultra low wages). Probably America goes into a decade long (at least) super recession for a while, where jobs are scarce, pay is low and standard of living is insufferable (in comparison to what it was).

Right now, I think our best bet is to support people like Wen Jiabao (premier of China) in China to further the social liberalisation under him. He was a former protest leader at Tienanmen Square, so to say he is liberal is an understatement.

edited 14th Feb '11 10:17:24 AM by breadloaf

Social Security is self funding. Sort of.

But yeah-all the money we're getting is coming from somewhere. But we'd either borrow from other places, or just print a shitload of money and have massive inflation. That's all.

Having a thousand percent inflation is hardly "that's all" :)

Well clearly, we all need to invest in gold.

Personally, "world standing" in economy means nothing to me, only the plight of the proletariat.

And what's going on right now looks like hardly anything more than Proletarianization.

As long as my family and I can have our meals and internet and just generally aren't being oppressed, I don't have a whole lot to complain about, even if we can't all say "America's Number One!" and crap.

To everyone who believed Japan Takes Over the World: I win, you lose, TOLD YOU SO.

Sorry, that was a bit of a pet peeve for a while.

I'd be reassured more if they slackened up on the whole internet repression thing.

"Its kind of sad how strong your economy gets when you ignore all forms of workers rights and safety standards."

This is, in essence, how pure capitalism works. America went through the same phase during the industrial revolution.

It's not democrats/liberals trying to turn us into China. It's republicans. They want the same laissez faire hypercapitalist policies that China has.

Ironic, considering China is supposed to be communist XD

Good luck trying to explain that to the average conservative. They've been spoon fed the socialist china lie for so long it might as well be apart of their faith in God.

You seem to be confused between socialism and communism. China is those red commie bastards, Europe is the pinko socialist group.

I don't think I've ever heard of democrats being accused of turning the US into China.

Its amazing how thorougly people label each other. Rather than try and analyse exactly what is going on in each individual country, people label entire continents "socialist" or "communist" when the reality is far more complicated.

Black-and-White Morality; only in stories folks.

^ You're expecting a level of rationality Im not convinced people are capable of. Truth is, we're wired to view people on opposing sides in broad terms as rivals or enemies with no redeeming or humanizing features.

Yet we're shrewd enough in analysing our own nations quirks. Why can't we turn it to others? Lack of time? Or just thoughtlessness?

Then again, there seem to be some who can't even analyse their own country that well...

EDIT: Anyway, apologies for falling off topic.

edited 14th Feb '11 3:21:36 PM by GameChainsaw