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The Arab Spring
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The Arab Spring:

 11476 The G Dude, Thu, 3rd May '12 7:11:01 AM from Fresno, CA
[up][up] OK, now I'm convinced Assad has snapped. What the hell does he have to gain from raiding Aleppo, of all places?!

[up] Student accomodation.

There are neighborhood in Damascus and Aleppo that oppose Assad. it is not entirely calm in this two cities. and student usually at forefront of demonstration.

 11478 De Marquis, Fri, 4th May '12 12:09:57 PM from Hell, USA Relationship Status: Buried in snow, waiting for spring
Who Am I?
Bahrain featured by a major US news outlet. "Opposition activists in Bahrain are still fighting for political change. David Greene talks to opposition leader Khalil Al-Marzooq, and Maryam Al-Khawaja, the daughter of a prominent imprisoned human rights activist, about the pace of change, and the fate of jailed democracy activists in Bahrain."

If you Google "NPR Bahrain" you get over 3.5 million hits. Just sayin'
“Disobedience is the true foundation of liberty. The obedient must be slaves.”
 11479 The G Dude, Fri, 4th May '12 4:14:42 PM from Fresno, CA
HOW STUPID ARE YOU, KOFI?!?!?!?!

The dumbass thinks his worthless peace plan is on track, EVEN THOUGH THE VIOLENCE IS STILL BLATANTLY GOING ON.

Someone get this moron fired, now.

 11480 Colonial1. 1, Fri, 4th May '12 4:41:44 PM from The Marvelous River City
Crazed Lawrencian
Any idea what this plan actually consists of?
Proud member of the IAA

What's the point of being grown up if you can't act childish?
 11481 The G Dude, Fri, 4th May '12 4:48:34 PM from Fresno, CA
[up]

Wiki sez:

(1) commit to work with the Envoy in an inclusive Syrian-led political process to address the legitimate aspirations and concerns of the Syrian people, and, to this end, commit to appoint an empowered interlocutor when invited to do so by the Envoy;

(2) commit to stop the fighting and achieve urgently an effective United Nations supervised cessation of armed violence in all its forms by all parties to protect civilians and stabilise the country.

To this end, the Syrian government should immediately cease troop movements towards, and end the use of heavy weapons in, population centres, and begin pullback of military concentrations in and around population centres.

As these actions are being taken on the ground, the Syrian government should work with the Envoy to bring about a sustained cessation of armed violence in all its forms by all parties with an effective United Nations supervision mechanism.

Similar commitments would be sought by the Envoy from the opposition and all relevant elements to stop the fighting and work with him to bring about a sustained cessation of armed violence in all its forms by all parties with an effective United Nations supervision mechanism;

(3) ensure timely provision of humanitarian assistance to all areas affected by the fighting, and to this end, as immediate steps, to accept and implement a daily two hour humanitarian pause and to coordinate exact time and modalities of the daily pause through an efficient mechanism, including at local level;

(4) intensify the pace and scale of release of arbitrarily detained persons, including especially vulnerable categories of persons, and persons involved in peaceful political activities, provide without delay through appropriate channels a list of all places in which such persons are being detained, immediately begin organizing access to such locations and through appropriate channels respond promptly to all written requests for information, access or release regarding such persons;

(5) ensure freedom of movement throughout the country for journalists and a non-discriminatory visa policy for them;

(6) respect freedom of association and the right to demonstrate peacefully as legally guaranteed.

It's absurdly optimistic given the Syrian government's track record.

 11482 De Marquis, Fri, 4th May '12 6:14:14 PM from Hell, USA Relationship Status: Buried in snow, waiting for spring
Who Am I?
Hmm, reminds me of the "drug free schools" program for some reason.
“Disobedience is the true foundation of liberty. The obedient must be slaves.”
 11483 Best Of, Fri, 4th May '12 6:23:08 PM from Finland Relationship Status: Falling within your bell curve
FABRICATI DIEM, PVNC!
The only one of those items that Assad can sign with a straight face is #1, and even that only because it's worded so vaguely. It's got some strong wording that has no useful function when nothing in that item is defined or drawn out in any meaningful sense.

Dancing around that one would be trivially easy; for instance, one could do very little and claim that the "aspirations and concerns of the Syrian people" are being addressed; or one could claim that those "aspirations and concerns" are not "legitimate" in some way, which is a claim that any lawyer could easily make. ("They're trying to change the head of state without elections or any other constitutionally established process; therefore, their aspirations aren't legitimate.")
I'd take the awe of understanding over the awe of ignorance any day. - Douglas Adams
 11484 Nohbody, Sat, 5th May '12 5:29:49 AM from Somewhere in Dixie Relationship Status: Mu
Just zis guy
Wait...

There's still someone with more than two neurons to rub together who thinks the UN observers in Syria will actually do something, y'know, useful?

*boggle*
@Susanoo

1)A "Free media" does not mean "a media where everybody tells the full truth". It just means a situation in a country where multiple groups get to say what they want to say. The media outlets in the states are certainly free, that does not mean they are somehow sure to provide more truthful information.

2)Yemen under Saleh USED to be an ally of the States before the uprising, and is now, at the least, an ally of convenience given that the government there is fighting against AQAP and the Houthis, both enemies of the US.

edited 8th May '12 2:31:17 PM by stripesthezebra

 11486 Silasw, Sun, 6th May '12 4:58:35 PM from UK :( Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Globalist Bunny
Another car bombing, this time in Aleppo. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-17967253

What are people's opinions on the use of car bombs by the rebels?

"And the Bunny nails it!" ~ Gabrael

"A nuclear powered magnet death ball is perfectly scientifically possible." ~ Discar
Unchanging Avatar.
You better have a damn good reason before you go around killing civilians. I don't think the rebels do.
Except for 4/1/2011. That day lingers in my memory like...metaphor here...I should go.
 11488 Marq FJA, Sun, 6th May '12 5:23:03 PM from Saudi Arabia Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
O' Allah, save Egypt
Apparently, they do:
An activist of the rebel Free Syrian Army in Aleppo told Reuters news agency that the group carried out the attack on the car wash, which it said was being used by a pro-regime militia.
Wouldn't surprise me.

edited 6th May '12 5:23:17 PM by MarqFJA

Ash-shaʻb yurīd isqāṭ ḥukm al-ʻaskar
 11489 Best Of, Sun, 6th May '12 5:23:09 PM from Finland Relationship Status: Falling within your bell curve
FABRICATI DIEM, PVNC!
Car bombs are never OK if there's any chance that a civilian could get caught in the blast. Same as bombing a city. Or, you know, I guess if you've got a very specific target that absolutely has to go, then you could try to do it at a time when there are gonna be few people around so you don't end up causing too much collateral.

Basically, if there's a chance that a civilian would die, the target has to be so important that you'd blow the bomb if your own mother and children were there. I guess that's the only real test that you can do that really settles it. If you're gonna blow a bomb when there's a chance a civilian would get caught in the blast, you have to imagine your own mother as the one who goes and then you decide if it's worth it.

This is, of course, assuming that you really love your mother. If not, replace "mother" with "someone who you very dearly love."
I'd take the awe of understanding over the awe of ignorance any day. - Douglas Adams
 11490 Marq FJA, Sun, 6th May '12 5:36:53 PM from Saudi Arabia Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
O' Allah, save Egypt
What counts as "important enough" in this case seems to differ quite a lot in Arab/Muslim societies than in Western ones; there's something of a Martyrdom Culture factor in it, I believe, as well as "if I don't at least try to stop these atrociously evil guys when I have the chance, then whatever evil deeds they commit henceforth, I will be also to blame for them (indirectly, due to having allowed their perpetrators to live long enough to commit them)".
Ash-shaʻb yurīd isqāṭ ḥukm al-ʻaskar
 11491 Colonial1. 1, Sun, 6th May '12 6:27:25 PM from The Marvelous River City
Crazed Lawrencian
Now see, the bomber who blasted open the Benghazi government complex's gates last year was and will be remembered as a hero making the ultimate sacrifice.

What's happening in Syria with those carbombs is different. The target wasn't one important to the Regime. In fact, it's the kind of target whose destruction would turn support against the rebels. So what's going on here?
Proud member of the IAA

What's the point of being grown up if you can't act childish?
Unchanging Avatar.
Terrorism, essentially. For a good cause, but not good enough.
Except for 4/1/2011. That day lingers in my memory like...metaphor here...I should go.
 11493 Silasw, Tue, 8th May '12 7:37:31 AM from UK :( Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Globalist Bunny
Th office of the Libyan PM has been attacked. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-17995427
"And the Bunny nails it!" ~ Gabrael

"A nuclear powered magnet death ball is perfectly scientifically possible." ~ Discar
[up][up][up]You named the reason: Blasting open the government complex was merely a military tool and not something designed to spread terror. It was a valid military action on a valid military target. Thus, not terrorism.

A "Free media" does not mean "a media where everybody tells the full truth". It just means a situation in a country where multiple groups get to say what they want to say. The media outlets in the states are certainly free, that does not mean they are somehow sure to provide more truthful information.
And I never said so. I merely said that you cannot conclude from a government stance on something that the media will report according to that stance. And your whole argumentation was based on that. The reason Bahrain does not apepar as often in the news is the normal journalistic selection process: Due to lack of development, lack of newsworthy events, lack of importance given Bahrain's miniscule size and so on.

Yemen under Saleh USED to be an ally of the States before the uprising, and is now, at the least, an ally of convenience given that the government their is fighting against AQAP and the Houthis, both enemies of the US.
And yet, the events in Yemen were widely reported for a time, and hardly ever with sympathies for Saleh. Again, news just stopped when there were no real news worthy new developments anymore.
 
[up]

The reason they weren't in a favourable light was because there isn't really a way to cast bloody dictators in a favourable light without coming across as transparent, which is why they prefer simply to not cover the story at all, if they can avoid it, as they have done in Bahrain, and as they have started doing in Yemen. Yemen steadily becoming Somalia #2 isn't newsworthy?

"I merely said that you cannot conclude from a government stance on something that the media will report according to that stance."

No, but when the media is reporting according to a stance (keep an eye on Syria, turn the other way with Bahrain) that happens to be that of the government, then you can connect the dots pretty easily.

As for Bahrain, yes, it's small, but it's also an firm ally of the States in the region, and is far from unimportant, with a very strong, oil backed economy. The developements there have been about as meaningful as the developements in Syria, that is, the repression has been going on at a slow but steady pace. And besides, as I said with Yemen, it's not as if Bahrain is the only example of the US media putting an uprising against a US allied state out of focus.

edited 8th May '12 2:40:42 PM by stripesthezebra

Yes, of course. It has to be government influence in the media. Can't be anything else. Of course.
 
 11497 Silasw, Wed, 9th May '12 5:35:11 PM from UK :( Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Globalist Bunny
and now the UN observers are coming under attack. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-18001942
"And the Bunny nails it!" ~ Gabrael

"A nuclear powered magnet death ball is perfectly scientifically possible." ~ Discar
 11498 Marq FJA, Wed, 9th May '12 6:14:08 PM from Saudi Arabia Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
O' Allah, save Egypt
Correction: The Syrian Army escorts of the UN convoy came under attack. In fact, I've seen an Aljazeera report several hours ago about a Syrian Army truck that had come into Daraa way ahead of the UN monitors, started firing randomly into the civilians on the street, and killed several of them before the Free Syrian Army elements in town got there and fired back, ending with the truck being blown to bits (probably either by a direct RPG hit, or the fuel tank catching fire).
Ash-shaʻb yurīd isqāṭ ḥukm al-ʻaskar
 11499 Marq FJA, Thu, 10th May '12 7:17:00 AM from Saudi Arabia Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
O' Allah, save Egypt
Damn. Damndamndamndamndamndamn. This ain't looking good. sad Personally, I'm suspecting either a fringe extremist group within the armed opposition that did this independently of everyone else, or a ploy by the regime itself to besmirch the opposition's reputation.

edited 10th May '12 7:17:09 AM by MarqFJA

Ash-shaʻb yurīd isqāṭ ḥukm al-ʻaskar
 11500 Greenmantle, Thu, 10th May '12 2:11:36 PM from Thornycroft-land Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Dodge-ing The Water
[up]

Personally, I'm suspecting either a fringe extremist group within the armed opposition that did this independently of everyone else.

Or, more worryingly, there's now a Third Faction, possibly al-Qaeda from Iraq.
"To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield" — Alfred, Lord Tennyson
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