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TheCyborganizer Since: Nov, 2012
#1: Jan 18th 2011 at 6:40:13 PM

Hello ladies and gents, I'm a long-time lurker, first-time poster. I just finished reading "The Windup Girl" by Paolo Bacigalupi, and thought it was really fantastic. I'm working on putting together a page for it over here: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheWindupGirl but I'm new to all of this and could definitely use some help. If anyone else has read this and wants to work some wiki magic, well, that's what we're here for, right?

And if you haven't read it, and you like science fiction, I highly recommend it. It won the Hugo, Nebula, and Locus awards, among others. It's like Neuromancer, but with genetics instead of computers.

Drakyndra Her with the hat from Somewhere Since: Jan, 2001
Her with the hat
#2: Jan 18th 2011 at 10:34:48 PM

I read the book last year, and there wasn't a page for it then. sad I may have to do a mental refresher to see what tropes could apply, though.

And yeah, it's a very good book.

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feotakahari Fuzzy Orange Doomsayer from Looking out at the city Since: Sep, 2009
Fuzzy Orange Doomsayer
#3: Jan 19th 2011 at 11:44:32 AM

I read this after reading one other story by Bacigalupi, the one about a girl who has holes in her spine and can be played like a flute. Comparing the two works, all I can say is that the author has some weird fetishes.

That's Feo . . . He's a disgusting, mysoginistic, paedophilic asshat who moonlights as a shitty writer—Something Awful
EddieValiant,Jr. Not Quite Batman from under your bed. Since: Jan, 2010
Not Quite Batman
#4: Jan 19th 2011 at 1:44:17 PM

I saw the book at Border's, but didn't pick it up... so, it's good? smile

"Religion isn't the cause of wars, it's the excuse." —Mycroft Next
Scholastica Since: Jan, 2010
#5: Jan 19th 2011 at 7:51:30 PM

Its different, I'll give you that. The writing style reminded me of Metropolis.

zorbik Since: Apr, 2010
#6: May 26th 2012 at 2:59:37 PM

It's not just good, it's awesome! Best futurepunk since Neuromancer!

MrShine Since: Jun, 2011 Relationship Status: Hoping Senpai notices me
#7: May 26th 2012 at 7:50:56 PM

I read it. I found it good but not great.

Iaculus Pronounced YAK-you-luss from England Since: May, 2010
Pronounced YAK-you-luss
#8: May 29th 2012 at 2:56:29 PM

According to the Thai folks I've heard from, though, it does a terrible job of representing the country. The Thai language Bacigapuli sprinkles through the work is mashed-up gibberish, and they weren't too fond of the way he recycled the 'Thailand is a hotbed of prostitution' cliché either.

edited 29th May '12 2:57:05 PM by Iaculus

What's precedent ever done for us?
MrShine Since: Jun, 2011 Relationship Status: Hoping Senpai notices me
#9: May 29th 2012 at 5:53:16 PM

I felt like Emiko seemed more like a fantasy of Paolo's than a real character that we were supposed to care about. A fantasy of someone who's watched WAY too much anime.

Treblain Not An Avatar Since: Nov, 2012
Not An Avatar
#10: May 29th 2012 at 8:23:31 PM

I liked it, but there are some oddities such as the Fridge Logic that goes along with 'energy powered by manual labor.' Sci-fi is no stranger to ignoring obvious problems to get the story the author wants, but if you want to do "bio-punk post-oil future" or whatever, explain what happened to solar, nuclear, wind, hydroelectric, geothermal, biodiesel, etc before you jump into "okay, so everything is powered by genetically-engineered elephants winding giant springs..."

edited 29th May '12 8:23:49 PM by Treblain

We're not just men of science, we're men of TROPE!
MrShine Since: Jun, 2011 Relationship Status: Hoping Senpai notices me
#11: May 29th 2012 at 8:52:54 PM

The springs were a facepalm for anyone who's been to a physics class i think.

DoktorvonEurotrash Welcome, traveller, welcome to Omsk Since: Jan, 2001
Welcome, traveller, welcome to Omsk
#12: May 30th 2012 at 1:21:44 AM

While I haven't read the book, I've read several of the reviews Iaculus mentions, and the depiction of Thailand does sound pretty cringe-worthy. I get some uncomfortable vibes from the idea of a beautiful genetically engineered woman who is used as a sex-slave, as well. Stories with that sort of thing tend to tread a very thin line between "isn't this horrible?" and "that would be so hot".

Also, one of the reviews said that the titular Emiko was made obedient by having her DNA spliced with that of a dog. Is that actually in the novel? Because I know virtually nothing about genetics, and even I can tell how stupid that is.

It does not matter who I am. What matters is, who will you become? - motto of Omsk Bird
Neep Revolution of Ruin from Booooooooomblastandruin Since: Jan, 2001
Revolution of Ruin
#13: May 30th 2012 at 10:04:24 PM

I'd say that Treblain got it. My biggest problem with the book is the profoundly nonsensical setting. They have biotech geniuses and genetically engineered algae, but no biofuels. People use methane for cooking and power factories with draft animals and manual labor. As somebody who actually studies environmental science and sustainability, I was muttering "this is so fucking stupid" every 10 pages.

You've lost. You're the Bomb Squad after the bomb's gone off. I'm the blast ongoing.
MrShine Since: Jun, 2011 Relationship Status: Hoping Senpai notices me
#14: May 30th 2012 at 11:30:19 PM

Since this is getting rather negative I'll say what i DID like about the book: other than Emiko I really liked how the author portrayed most of the other main characters as very morally ambiguous. Nearly every character was shown to be capable of both kindness and atrocities and the author did very well at showing how each main character had their own code of morality but they were each very different from the others. Also its always nice to see a book with a villain protagonist.

frumfrum from Germany Since: Oct, 2011
#15: May 31st 2012 at 7:13:18 PM

[up][up][up]I agree with this.I'm still stuck in the first half because while I freaking love the world-building and the smart shades-of-grey characterisation the female presentation is turning me away. We have Emiko the sex slave and that's it. The only two other female characters I remember are an obedient wife and Emiko's... handler. And I don't understand why this is necessary, this is science fiction in a not too distant future why would we regress to 17 century standards? Why are there no female workers in a kinda post-apocalyptic situation? Surely society is not rich enough for stay-at-home moms again. Why couldn't we see some male engineered sex slaves? That topic destroyed my enjoyment of the book and normally I give a flying fuck about this.
@Solar etc. I think part of it could be exlained by no oil = no plastic and an energy crisis usually means that many other important chemicals cant be refined. Countries that have alternative energies in place could have weathered the storm better. Also, genetic engineering could simply be breeding... Bio fuels can't be produced when you're trying to produce enough food for everyone Still, I agree hat it's somtimes inconsistent, one of the explanation I have is thatpeople are alot more environmental than now. (This might not be accurate since it's been a while I tried reading it.)

edited 31st May '12 7:13:40 PM by frumfrum

Parable State of Mind from California (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Holding out for a hero
State of Mind
#16: Jun 1st 2012 at 1:05:39 AM

"The only two other female characters I remember are an obedient wife and Emiko's... handler."

I can't remember anybodies names but I do recall one female character who was pretty sweet. The Tiger's right hand woman.

"Why couldn't we see some male engineered sex slaves?"

We sorta did. The ladyboys.

edited 1st Jun '12 1:06:31 AM by Parable

"What a century this week has been." - Seung Min Kim
MrShine Since: Jun, 2011 Relationship Status: Hoping Senpai notices me
#17: Jun 1st 2012 at 3:21:27 AM

Yeah, there's Lieutenant Kanya and Mai, a child labourer who works for Anderson. They both get pretty significant appearances but still they're the only 2 who arent prostitutes or obedient wives.

Drakyndra Her with the hat from Somewhere Since: Jan, 2001
Her with the hat
#18: Jun 1st 2012 at 8:50:52 AM

The thing about Emiko is that while the initial premise and introduction of the character were pretty appalling, she was my favourite character by the end.

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Iaculus Pronounced YAK-you-luss from England Since: May, 2010
Pronounced YAK-you-luss
#19: Jun 1st 2012 at 3:48:10 PM

@frumfrum: Wouldn't you say that the lack of research about the physics, the part of the world the book's set in, and so on rather knock some points off the world-building score, though?

What's precedent ever done for us?
frumfrum from Germany Since: Oct, 2011
#20: Jun 1st 2012 at 10:29:35 PM

[up] I guess that depends where you stand on the matter of hard vs. soft science fiction. Also, I'm alot more interested in biology and chemistry than physics and aware that alot of the tactics employed by current agriculture concerns. For me the premise hinges on the What if these tactics became applied to a post-apocalyptic scenario where the main resource is food(possibly more drastic and extreme, too) and the book delivered on that as far as I can see. We even get an extra of imperialistic politic.
So I guess I can abit lenient and just hand wave that after oil disappeared power plants like wind, solar etc. can't be built anymore in countries that didn't have them or can't be maintained to infinity in e.g. Europe. On the other hand, expertise for engineering the seeds is more important and when you have one of them you can produce them by planting it in a field (you have to sterilise your shipments, of course).
I liked the non-western setting (this is the reason I picked up the book in the first place) but I can't really judge how good/bad it was done since I'm not very familiar with the country.

edited 1st Jun '12 10:29:57 PM by frumfrum

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