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The "Bad Kind" of Abortion
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The "Bad Kind" of Abortion:

 1 Vorpy, Sat, 15th Jan '11 10:24:30 PM from from from from from from
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Usually people, when talking about abortion, one of the main staples to both sides is whether or not the abortion is a necessity. Whether carrying the baby to birth would cause significant harm to either the child, the mother, or the wallet.

One thing that the opposing side will bring up is the thought of a girl who wants to have an abortion for the sole reason that she does not want to have a baby.

  • Most people think that the girl they are portraying will have revolving door mindset, as in she will get abortions as many times as needed to continue her unsafe sex practices. Not only is this illogical and unlikely, but it's also expensive. Most free abortion clinics have a limit of one free abortion before they either charge the girl or turn her away.

  • Most people who support abortion as a choice don't keep into mind about the girls who will "abuse" this system, where they will simply toss away fetuses because they have the option to not keep them. Mostly out of lack of motivation to keep the baby, or the fact that they would rather not take care of said baby.

For me, I support it regardless of circumstances. A woman who cannot carry a baby to birth, or girl who got pregnant due to malicious and forced circumstances, is the same in my eyes as a girl who didn't want the baby in the first place and would rather not take care of one.

What are your thoughts on the "bad kind" of abortion?
If the amount of rape that is acceptable to you is not zero, and you are not Pyramid Head, you need to seriously rethink your life.
 2 Spooky Mask, Sat, 15th Jan '11 10:28:25 PM from Corner in round room Relationship Status: Non-Canon
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I heard in the old school from my religion teacher that someone had came to her gynecologist friend asking abortion so she could go on cruise with her husband.(she apparently was rich)

So yeah, that what I would consider bad.
Time to change the style, for now
ALMSIVI
If a woman wants to get an abortion, I don't see a problem with letting her.

I frankly don't care about her reasons. If she wants to "abuse the system", as you say, it's her choice.
Away on the wind~
My thoughts on abortion:

If a woman is thinking of having an abortion, she needs to think it through, because once she goes through with it, it is permanent, irreversible.

However, if she thinks it through, then I have no problem with it.

After all, there are a number of reasons they could decide to have an abortion;

1. They are not stable enough to support a child.

2. They cannot afford to raise a baby.

3. Health worries- for either the mother or the baby.

4. They are not mature/responsible enough to raise a baby.

Plus more reasons that I just can't think of ATM.

And sure, people can say, adoption... But really, do we need more babies up for adoption? -_-

edited 15th Jan '11 10:34:43 PM by CyganAngel

There are too many toasters in my chimney!
 5 Spooky Mask, Sat, 15th Jan '11 10:34:06 PM from Corner in round room Relationship Status: Non-Canon
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I guess I should say that I don't like abortion because it feels rather nightmarish for me =/ Though, I guess I'm still "Pro-Choice" in that I would prefer people have the option, but I still wouldn't want them use it, at least for dumb reasons...
Time to change the style, for now
 6 Pykrete, Sat, 15th Jan '11 10:37:05 PM from Viridian Forest
NOT THE BEES
My thoughts are if we're going to dredge this up again it should be on OTC :P

I'd say no, a human life is a human life, and convenience never outweighs that as far as I'm concerned.

There are outlier cases I'd readily make exceptions for. Cases where the mother's life is in physical danger are literally choosing between two lives, and there's not really any nice way around that as of yet. Cases of rape are similar, as even carrying the child to term can cause extreme psychological damage just by having an everpresent reminder.

These, however, are rather rare and not indicative of the vast majority of abortions.

I do recognize, however, that social services, the adoption process, and support for single mothers in pregnancy need some serious work to make carrying it to term viable. However, making abortion this widespread seems to be literally throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

And I'm not going to take part in the shitstorm from here, so yeah tongue

edited 15th Jan '11 10:46:27 PM by Pykrete

This one thinks that abortions should be allowed regardless of reasons. Because, well, even if there are no physical danger to the woman, it is more than possible that having a child right now would ruin her life. If being saddled with a child means that she won't be able to get education, job, or that she will become a social pariah of the neighbourhood, then having an abortion is entirely acceptable. Just one thing - it is way easier for a woman without children to find a man suitable to her standards to marry. For the one with a child - it is possible, of course, but her chances are lowered significantly. Thing is, it would be damn difficult to prove that yes, her circumstances are like that, and if such proof is required, quite a lot of people would not be able to get such proof. And end up with their lives ruined.

As for what kind of abortion I would consider "bad" - one that is at the later stages of pregnancy. Because it is completely useless at that point. If at this point the child can be kept alive, why not just do so? It's not like it's going to inconvenience woman just by the fact of being alive, and it is easier to leave it in foster care.

edited 15th Jan '11 10:53:48 PM by Beholderess

If we disagree, that much, at least, we have in common
 8 Funnyguts, Sat, 15th Jan '11 11:01:27 PM from French Bread!
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Beholderess: I think most women who let fetuses reach second or third trimester and then decide to abort probably feel that they need to for whatever reason, such as illness or extreme discomfort. If they wanted an abortion because they just didn't want to go through a pregnancy or have a kid, they would likely have done it as soon as possible.
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 9 Chagen 46, Sat, 15th Jan '11 11:07:50 PM from I don't really know
I have to say...I have no feelings on this matter. My Christian morals are conflicting with my "Never make a decision that could hurt other people" philosophy. I don't agree with the "killing a innocent life" thing, but neither do I agree with the "Make a woman suffer because she couldn't get an abortion" thing.

I usually am Pro-choice solely to fit in better with communities like TV Tropes.
"Who wants to hear about good stuff when the bottom of the abyss of human failure that you know doesn't exist is so much greater?"-Wraith
[up][up]Of course, abortions due to medical reasons are always acceptable.

What I meant is that, as far as I understand (I am no medic so feel free to correct me), at this stage there is very little technical difference between abortion and Caesar's, with main difference in whether to take the baby out whole or in pieces. But then again, those who wanted the child but had physical difficulties in the third trimester would probably want to try to keep the baby alive if at all possible, so that's besides the point.

edited 15th Jan '11 11:09:57 PM by Beholderess

If we disagree, that much, at least, we have in common
Always Right
Wait...so theres two kinds of abortion? Which is the bad kind and which is the good kind?

I think I explained my POV on this issue, but since it was on IJBM, and IJBM died, I can start this again...

Abortion...should not be restricted. So even if a girl wants to use it as a 100% birth control, more power to her.

No one but the girl herself should have any say on the issue, not even the father.

If more abortion clinics are opened up, or doctors are trained how to perform abortions as well, the practice will become more common and hopefully the taboo will finally go away.

Also, aborted fetuses can be used for research.
t is permanent, irreversible.

Isn't giving birth also permanent and irreversible?

edited 15th Jan '11 11:15:14 PM by Signed

"Every opinion that isn't mine is subjected to Your Mileage May Vary."
If a woman is thinking of having an abortion, she needs to think it through, because once she goes through with it, it is permanent, irreversible.

Having a child is also permanent and irreversible, and it's even less easy to get rid of it. You   * can always get pregnant again.

 13 Spooky Mask, Sat, 15th Jan '11 11:12:28 PM from Corner in round room Relationship Status: Non-Canon
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I will never accept abortion done for stupid reasons =P I can understand the medical matters and the "Baby might have *insert genetic condition*", though I still don't like the latter one.

I mean, if you could somehow see if the child could have even slight ADHD.......
Time to change the style, for now
Her with the hat
It depends on when they find out they are pregnant - some people don't realise until a couple of months in.

There's also the issue that in some places it can be difficult to get an abortion; travel, raising the money, making appointments, and of course all the legislation and so on pro-life people put in place to make abortions more difficult to get - which also mean taking more time before a woman can get one.

A 15-year old girl whose boyfriend dumped her might want to get an abortion early on, but that doesn't always mean she's able to.
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 15 Chagen 46, Sat, 15th Jan '11 11:16:35 PM from I don't really know
Mellon, your post sounds horribly sociopathic. I hope you realize that.

"Who wants to hear about good stuff when the bottom of the abyss of human failure that you know doesn't exist is so much greater?"-Wraith
Well, the point about having a child too being permanent and irreversible is valid.
If we disagree, that much, at least, we have in common
Yes, it's sociopathic of me to say that if you end human life you should do it while said entity is incapable of suffering, as opposed to when it's cute and stuff.

 18 Chagen 46, Sat, 15th Jan '11 11:21:32 PM from I don't really know
Still....it's still killing a fucking baby, jesus.

I'm not fit for debating this kind of thing...

edited 15th Jan '11 11:21:44 PM by Chagen46

"Who wants to hear about good stuff when the bottom of the abyss of human failure that you know doesn't exist is so much greater?"-Wraith
PARTY HARD!!!!
I'm pro-life myself, though this oddly has nothing to do with my Christian morals.

My issue with abortion lay in the term "conceived". That pretty much explains it all, for me.

Basically, why would I say no to abortion but not say that we should have as many babies as possible? As best as I can explain this, it's essentially that a life has been set in motion. It doesn't matter whether or not the life is sentient, what matters is that it is going to be.

In 1/0, one of the arcs involves an interesting little debate/analogy about abortion. (SPOILERS!, if anyone cares...)


A character builds a statue/mud doll/thing, and like other characters do occasionally, intends to bring them to life. Someone comes along and knocks it over, destroying it. For a while I thought this was incredibly silly, and didn't think it counted for anything; then I realized that it did because the idea of that person was created.

That was a pretty horrible attempt at explaining, and I left a ton out, but I will essentially just have to leave it at that.

One thing that the opposing side will bring up is the thought of a girl who wants to have an abortion for the sole reason that she does not want to have a baby.

I can see this happening, though the idea of abortion's use as a birth control method is ridiculous. To be honest, I actually have a relative you aborted their baby specifically because they just didn't want it. Hearing their explanation kind of freaked me out, so yeah, it does happen.

It likely won't happen multiple times for a single person, but the reason it gets brought up is that one aborted child is bad enough.
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 20 Spooky Mask, Sat, 15th Jan '11 11:22:39 PM from Corner in round room Relationship Status: Non-Canon
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I myself prefer to existing and suffering than not existing at all, if we assume that unborn baby isn't human yet =P
Time to change the style, for now
Always Right
^^ Well, not all of them die. And they can be used for research, such as, say...stem cells.

Also, you can use it to save a life.

So not only are the woman free of such burden, they could potentially help the rest of mankind.

edited 15th Jan '11 11:25:48 PM by Signed

"Every opinion that isn't mine is subjected to Your Mileage May Vary."
 22 Chagen 46, Sat, 15th Jan '11 11:25:27 PM from I don't really know
Signed, that sounds more disturbing than what Mellon said.

Yes, let's just use humans for research...but I support stem cell research, so....I'm stuck in a dilemma here.
"Who wants to hear about good stuff when the bottom of the abyss of human failure that you know doesn't exist is so much greater?"-Wraith
Always Right
Then just change your definition of "human right to life". Does it have to include a barely formed parasite that can not survive outside of it's mother's womb? A being who can not think or perform many life functions?

Is a framework of a car a car? Is a scaffold of a large house a large house?

edit:upon further thinking, that might disturb you even more...but it helps if you think about whether we need ANOTHER human being, unwanted no less, crowding up our world.

edited 15th Jan '11 11:30:25 PM by Signed

"Every opinion that isn't mine is subjected to Your Mileage May Vary."
 24 Chagen 46, Sat, 15th Jan '11 11:29:29 PM from I don't really know
To be up-front about it, I consider it human the damn instant it was conceived.

I remember hearing a quote by someone; it was something like "It amuses me that all of those who support abortion were born themselves".

edited 15th Jan '11 11:30:28 PM by Chagen46

"Who wants to hear about good stuff when the bottom of the abyss of human failure that you know doesn't exist is so much greater?"-Wraith
Away on the wind~
Having a child is also permanent and irreversible, and it's even less easy to get rid of it. You can always get pregnant again.

But you can always give the baby away afterwards. The process of giving birth is irreversible; but if you regret your choice aftrwards, then are thins you can do to get out of the situation- i.e. adoption.
There are too many toasters in my chimney!
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