Description not Supported: Nonstandard Game Over

There seems to be an extreme amount of confusion about Nonstandard Game Overs. The description says that the trope is for game-over screens that are different than usual. Everything else points to unusual ways to die. We need to clean this up, including fixing the page quote and picture.

Looking through the examples, I'm not seeing any misuse, though I agree that both the page quote (for not being an example) and the page image (for being just a face and a caption) are bad.

Sorry, I'm new to this trope... and it seems I can't read! *Self-Deprecation*

So we just need a new page quote and a different picture.

edited 3rd Jan '11 5:23:28 PM by SenshiSun

So you are saying that if a game gives you an unusual situational game over, but the game over screen itself is still the same, it is not a nonstandard game over? The only thing I'm seeing making that distinction is the last paragraph of the description. Was that always there? The first part of the page says "This page refers to events that are (1) non-standard, and (2) a game over."

Personally, I don't think we need to be so picky. If it's a game over, and it's not the standard game over, it's a nonstandard game over. It's a very well-used and flexible page.

From the trope page in the list of things that define the trope:

For unexpected ways of getting a regular game over, see Everything Trying to Kill You.

No, it's just "Unusual game over message". Like you might normally get some shot of "Game Over" in front of a coffin but if you do something whack like attack an allied NPC or your target for an Escort Mission you get "What a bloody idiot" and a shot of you in a military prison.

Everything Trying to Kill You is about odd things attacking you. It's a different concept that's not directly related to game overs. Say, if a tree in the background or something can attack you, it's Everything Trying to Kill You. It's strange that it's attacking you, but it deals damage just like any other enemy, and just like any other type of damage, you'll get an ordinary game over if all of your HP runs out.

Now, as for this trope, there's clearly some contention over the definition, so it would help to ask what is an example and what is not. Is the moon crashing in Majora's Mask a non-standard game over or is it not? Is Sonic jumping off the screen if you idle for three minutes in Sonic CD a non-standard game over or is it not?

Well, the Super Paper Mario one is a good example. You can get a Game Over at the beginning of the game by rejecting the quest in an aversion of But Thou Must!. Definitely nonstandard no matter what the Game over screen looks like.

Hmm... it looks like this trope has the wrong idea about other trope then. It doesn't think it's the trope your description, and I think that they are separate tropes. They often overlap, but just as often they don't.

I thought it was "game over that isn't any of the standard game overs", and most of the examples are that. Non Standard Game Overs may or may not have a different game over screen.

The "nonstandard" part derives from how most games only issue a Game Over if you out of Hit Points, lives, and/or time. So if the game issues you a Game Over for something else, that's what makes it nonstandard.

I think the real problem with this article is the first paragraph, and if it were changed to something simpler (Strata's post above is basically perfect), the confusion would end.

""Game Over" screens can be a good way of building atmosphere. Unfortunately, players tend to off their characters like they were on an overclocked Samsara, and even the most eerie of gimmicks becomes dull over time."

The article would be greatly improved and clarified if the first paragraph simply said, "In most games, players see the dreaded "Game Over" screen when their in-game avatars are defeated in some way. Maybe they took too many wounds and ran out of hit points. Or they fell down too many pits and ran out of lives. They might have taken too long to read the walkthrough they pulled from Game FA Qs and the game's timer ran out—you get the idea. But, for a few games, these simple rules aren't enough, and certain player screw-ups receive special punishments. These are Nonstandard Game Overs."

I see the examples on this page falling into basically three categories: 1. otherwise standard Game Overs (loss of hit points, lives, etc.) that receive special treatment because they occur during a particular event (say, a unique death cutscene for losing the Final Boss Fight), 2. punishment Game Overs that the game levies against usually unsuspecting players who break the rules (shooting in the Bionic Commando's Neutral Zones, approaching the Princess with a battle stance in Karateka) or derail the plot (saying "No" to the Main Quest in the aforementioned But Thou Must! aversion), 3. odd or bizarre noncanon endings that the player can choose to aquire, and that usually involve the death of the main characters and occur much more rapidly than the normal endings (Silent Hill's UFO endings, Chrono Trigger's alternate endings, Suikoden 5's "I choose to become a tool of this or that faction" endings).

[rant] What does that mean, "players tend to off their characters like they were on an overclocked Samsara?" Exactly which part of the wheel of life and death can I "overclock?" What an utterly obscure and distracting religious joke. [/rant]

I thought that this trope was just for nonstandard game over screens. If this is so, we're going to need a new trope.

Can we get the trope's creator over here to see what this meant?

Does anyone know who made this trope?

How about making this a Super-Trope for the three types mentioned?

Good idea. Switch this to a new trope. Unusual Game Over Screen, or something.

edited 6th Jan '11 4:27:48 PM by SenshiSun

Interesting idea, but how do you define an "unusual" game over screen?

Different from the normal Game Over screen.

the Non Standard part would still fit though so there isnt a real need for a name change if we do that.

I also prefer "nonstandard", because "unusual" sounds like a value judgement and invites misuse (e.g. people adding examples of Game Over screens they think are weird).

"the Non Standard part would still fit though so there isnt a real need for a name change if we do that."

There is a need, because it's a nonstandard part of one aspect of a game over, namely the screen. The misuse is because many associate the name to be about nonstandard triggers for a game over.

Yes, thus the suggestion Nonstandard Game Over Screen ... Raso accurately observed that the changing the first word (to "unusual") is unnecessary, the relevant change is the addition of the word "screen".

edited 7th Jan '11 12:12:29 AM by rodneyAnonymous

Okay. Then what to call it when the condition is atypical to the rest of the game.

...Different from the normal Game Over screen.

edited 7th Jan '11 6:42:15 AM by Stratadrake

Games generally have a "default" game over screen for when you die (or otherwise lose) normally. Some games have a different game over screen for when you die/lose in a specific way. The default version is covered by Game Over, but this trope is about the unique ones. The problem is that the trope is currently being confused over whether it's in reference to the method of losing or the screen itself — so it's being proposed to rename it to Non Standard Game Over Screen to make it clear that the trope is about the screen being different, not the method of losing.

Game over condition atypical to rest of game is Everything Trying to Kill You or It's a Wonderful Failure isn't it?

edited 7th Jan '11 8:23:06 AM by rodneyAnonymous