Saving Private Manning (Wikileaks)

Apparently, some private is being tortured over leaking information on the Afgan war on, what else, Wiki Leaks, without being accused, or for that matter, tried, of any crime. And this is the kind of torture that can destroy personalities.

Discuss.

edited 22nd Dec '10 11:24:49 AM by Psyga315

In before "he endangered the mission, I'd give him the strappado, myself".

Link to something more than "Hey I heard..." please?

Sure. It's also a petition as well.

http://act.demandprogress.org/sign/Manning/?akid=45.306422.fupZ6M&rd=1&t=1

Another link:

[1]

edited 22nd Dec '10 11:54:43 AM by EnglishIvy

I want proof that he's being "tortured" other than hearsay.

I highly doubt he's being tortured. Quite possibly being held in Leavenworth for treason, and rightly so, but not tortured. He'll probably be dishonorably discharged, serve a few years in prison, and then be on his merry.

And I don't disagree with that at all. You do not fucking leak information, that's betraying your security clearance, which is unacceptable and a capital crime in the UCMJ.

Manning has been subjected for many months without pause to inhumane, personality-erasing, soul-destroying, insanity-inducing conditions of isolation

It's iso, it's not like he's the first person to ever get put in the hole, that isn't "soul destroying torture", it's rather commonplace in a large majority of prisons.

Torture would be something like causing actual physical damage or pain, which while I don't think we're incapable of it, what he did doesn't warrant it because he doesn't have any information we need.

And I mean fuck, 64 square feet for a cell? That's gigantic!

It's not some malicious act of government to cause him emotional pain and such, at most it's because there's a marine NCO in charge over in that prison who hates what this fucker did, and thus threw him in iso.

edited 22nd Dec '10 12:06:42 PM by Barkey

64 square feet is an 8 foot by 8 foot room. Roughly the size a normal bedroom, not huge, but not a tiny cramped closet, either.

For an isolation holding cell, that's pretty spacious, y'all should see iso rooms at Bagram.

Not to mention astronauts! Clearly they are being tortured by extended confinement in those cramped space stations.

More seriously, I imagine there are grounds to be concerned about Private Manning's psychological welfare, but it really would help if activists supporting him could refrain from spreading around rumors and urban myths. It just makes them look like conspiracy theory loonies and the Wikileaks scandals haven't done wonders for the credibility of the tinfoil hat crowd.

Agreed. On the one hand, I'd beat the shit out of that private if I ever met him face to face, but on the other, him being in isolation for so long is in my opinion, over the top and unnecessary, but not a war crime by a long shot.

Can you put someone in iso for no reason? It's mentally crippling that's for sure.

Slightly off topic but can we stop calling Pvt. Manning's actions treason?

1. They don't fit into the definition of treason as laid out by the constitution (levying war against the US or providing aid and comfort to its enemies) 2. If they did, the charges would probably be treason, instead of "transferring classified data onto his personal computer and adding unauthorized software to a classified computer system" and "communicating, transmitting and delivering national defense information to an unauthorized source." source

Just for the sake of honesty, can we please limit the allegations to things that actually line up with his actions, and not throw around treason as some buzzword?

So what is he then? A mole? A snith?

I'm starting to wish that there were more sources on this than just the left-and-right blogs.

Military personnel have a different set of things regarding treason than non military.

^^^^

I could care less, to most folks in the military, what Manning did was treason. I'm not using it as a buzzword, I'm using it because that's exactly how most of us feel.

It's not about what he leaked, it's that he leaked in the first place. Unauthorized software on a government computer is serious, that charge by itself will probably get you an Article 15 if not a discharge, which is career damaging at minimum. Transferring government information that classified(in this case everything from Confidential, Sensitive, Secret, and Top Secret) is an extremely serious offense, we're talking two or more decades in prison type of serious.

But what we're disgusted with is that he did it in the first place, without being coaxed or bribed(that we know of so far), and that is so disgusting I don't have words for it. To us, it's a betrayal of the uniform. We don't take the whole disloyalty thing lightly.

edited 22nd Dec '10 3:28:25 PM by Barkey

I agree. Despite the fact that he might be cruelly tortured to death, he kinda deserves it for betraying his own.

Though what he leaked though is the bigger question.

Nothing justifies torture. Especially not rigid adherence to a hierarchy as a virtue in and of itself.

What if he had leaked info that the US army was doing some weird bio warfare experiments on the people in Iraq? A betrayal of the institution for the upholding of the ideal is a tough decision to make and I can't really comment until I know what was leaked.

edited 22nd Dec '10 5:10:28 PM by thatguythere47

What if he leaked a vulnerable position in that will sure make the US lose the war?

The US has already lost the war.

Which war? Iraq, Afghan, terror, drugs?

Not necessarily, there's still a chance. Albeit it involves getting Karzai out of there while at the same time taking steps to prevent the Taliban from gaining government positions legitimately.

I think the negative reaction on this issue is simply over-the-top. All the people screaming for the guy's head are just making themselves look like idiots. Hypocrites, too, if they're doing it on the Internet.

^

I wouldn't expect you to understand, I guess.