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Jimmmyman10 cannot into space from polan Since: Mar, 2011 Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
cannot into space
#426: Mar 29th 2012 at 7:00:45 PM

Actually...

A FPS set in a world of an eternal gang war would be pretty cool.

Go play Kentucky Route Zero. Now.
Registered Radioactive green from under a space rock Since: Jun, 2009
Radioactive green
#427: Mar 30th 2012 at 8:44:56 AM

Don't all team-based competitive shooters essentially exist in a state akin to a perpetual gang war by their very nature?

Albeit one with the hiccup where you don't usually get to choose which gang you're warring for, nor does it really matter much. Perhaps I need to do some research on Dust 514, to find out how it decides which teams of Dust players fight for which corporations and alliances in EVE.

It seems, in my mind, that "permanently" assigning a player to any given EVE-based corporation would probably go... poorly, since it WOULD lead to that kind of territorial mindset. Not to mention the fact that players might just keep choosing to support one side of any given conflict over another, leading to an unfair (and boring) imbalance for Dust players.

So I'm imagining that Dust would probably just search for ongoing contested zones in EVE, and randomly assign any given Dust player to a side of a battle, but only for that round of play. But I'm just assuming, here! Like I said, I should do some research on this.

Taco Since: Jan, 2001
#428: Apr 3rd 2012 at 3:15:57 PM

If we could choose where to fight we'd end up with gangs of people in Dust extorting EVE players by gaming the market and deciding what goes where. I expect the Goonswarm will quickly acquire footsoldiers this way.

Demongodofchaos2 Face me now, Bitch! from Eldritch Nightmareland Since: Jul, 2010 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Jimmmyman10 cannot into space from polan Since: Mar, 2011 Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
cannot into space
#430: Apr 4th 2012 at 11:20:34 AM

YAY

favorite type of episode

Go play Kentucky Route Zero. Now.
RhymeBeat Bird mom from Eastern Standard Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: In Lesbians with you
Bird mom
#431: Apr 11th 2012 at 12:40:35 PM

Kinect Dissconnect

Very interesting analysis on how designing a game's controls "work" and the barriers for using the Kinect control scheme. I can't say much on the topic considering I don't have an X Box Three Sixty though.

The Crystal Caverns A bird's gotta sing.
Demongodofchaos2 Face me now, Bitch! from Eldritch Nightmareland Since: Jul, 2010 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Wildcard from Revolution City Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Dating Catwoman
#433: Apr 19th 2012 at 7:56:15 PM

Interesting video. But I can't help but wonder if they are overstating the importance of crowdfunding.

METAL GEAR!?
MadassAlex I am vexed! from the Middle Ages. Since: Jan, 2001
I am vexed!
#434: Apr 20th 2012 at 12:00:51 PM

Doubt it.

It's just getting started and we already have well-known developers breaking away, doing their own thing and getting funded directly by consumers for it. There isn't a stronger message than that, and at the very least, it could force publishers to reconsider the way they do business.

Swordsman TroperReclaiming The BladeWatch
ARealCard Since: Apr, 2012
#435: Apr 20th 2012 at 6:03:23 PM

It's just getting started

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Aww, that is just too precious.

Wildcard from Revolution City Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Dating Catwoman
#436: Apr 20th 2012 at 7:31:12 PM

[up][up]Maybe, but I think there is going to be a bit more resistance to this movement by somebody. I'm not sure this is gonna change everything.

METAL GEAR!?
ShadowScythe from Australia Since: Dec, 2009
#437: Apr 20th 2012 at 7:35:06 PM

Gah, EC, as usual missing major aspects of the crowdfunding. Yeah let's mention DFA and Banner Saga but not the other huge game Wasteland 2, or what it established. Kicking it Forward is a pretty big movement and it could do a lot to increase the life of this kickstarter setup.

For the record, I don't see crowdfunding as doing anything other than providing niche genres a chance to thrive again without the need to compromise for larger audiences.

Publishers aren't going to care about this since they have no interest in smaller investments.

To me, the most important thing in determining whether this will be anything more than a fad is how good the games are when they come out. If DFA, Wasteland 2, Banner Saga, Shadowrun and others don't live up to expectations that'll do a lot to damage the reputation of crowdfunding.

On the other hand if those games and the others that start to come up turn out to be good games that'll do a lot to keep this model alive.

edited 20th Apr '12 7:35:18 PM by ShadowScythe

MadassAlex I am vexed! from the Middle Ages. Since: Jan, 2001
I am vexed!
#438: Apr 20th 2012 at 8:19:06 PM

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Aww, that is just too precious.

Would you like to cut the rudeness and make an actual contribution to the discussion?

^ The thing is, some projects have made far more than they aimed to. Remember that something like the Double Fine Adventure Game ended up making, what? About three million dollars? Now consider that their target was four-hundred thousand. So they ended up making 750% of their target, which is a 650% excess according to their projections.

Think about that from a publisher's point of view. The fact that an independent source can build a development budget 650% in excess of their original goal? And that's money committed by consumers before the game is developed, published and sold? That's a huge deal, because it means that consumers will respond to reliable developers rather than publishers or series. It also means they're happy to have a product with less bells and whistles if the core game is strong.

Essentially, it's a part of the market that AAA publishers are competing with, because the games are comparable in terms of genre and gameplay (at least in theory). We'll know more when these games are released and sales data comes in, but at the moment? All this bodes very well for changes in the industry. Between developers like CD Projekt Red throwing so much commitment into a project, BioWare giving in to audience feedback, everything to do with crowdfunded games and the rise of indie, retro and casual markets, there's no doubt a shift happening in the industry. We're at a crossroads at the moment, and gaming might be better for it.

If this kind of concept and diversification in game releases holds, we might be nearing a new era in gaming. The late 90s to early 2000s might have been something of a golden age, and if so, then the mid-90s to now could be considered a AAA dark age. The most important thing is to break the monopolisation publishers have on the industry, and it looks like gaming is pretty much going in that direction right now.

Swordsman TroperReclaiming The BladeWatch
ARealCard Since: Apr, 2012
#439: Apr 20th 2012 at 10:25:25 PM

Okay, fine. The sole reason these crowd funded games are having any kind of success is these projects are having free advertising done by gaming blogs and news sites. And that attention is at its peak, and will be going into decline from here on out as thse sites get bored and move on. As soon as these projects aren't getting free advertising, they will shrivel back to where they were.

Crowdsourcing is at its absolute peak. It will never get bigger than this. This is it.

And yes, these projects made $750%n of their initial asking. Or, to put it another way, $3 million dollars. Which is still not worth a company the size of EA pursuing.

edited 20th Apr '12 10:27:41 PM by ARealCard

ShadowScythe from Australia Since: Dec, 2009
#440: Apr 20th 2012 at 10:43:14 PM

^^The thing is while that kind of money is huge for an independent developer, even if a team funded $5 million it'd still be pocket change to a publisher.

Publishers are going after the big money with millions in sales rather than a measly 50,000-100,000 backers.

What I mean is, this will be huge for gamers but I think publishers will keep going with what they've got. And there's still a strong demand for big budget AAA games. You can't make something with Co D or Crysis level graphics and cinematics using Kickstarter funding. You can't do Bioware level dialogue cinematics and voice acting with kickstarter funding.

MadassAlex I am vexed! from the Middle Ages. Since: Jan, 2001
I am vexed!
#441: Apr 21st 2012 at 2:02:05 AM

^^ That depends on whether these initial projects succeed. If they do, and gamers react positively to them, then crowdfunding might become a regular element of the game industry. In fact, it's about time for some kind of significant change at this point; the 90s gave us the accessible, story driven JRPG, the CD format and 3D games; the last decade brought us the "realistic" FPS, the MMORPG and all the economic industry upheaval that entailed. It's about time for another change, and the rise of indie games and casual games in particular, as well as an expanding game audience, means that things can't remain the same for much longer. Kickstarter represents another element of that.

And let's put it this way. How much money do you think has been donated towards Kickstarter games in the last few months alone, across the say, four well known projects? Somewhere between five and ten million? For a new idea, consumers willingly parting with cash and taking a chance that might not pay off? Just so they can have a game unrestricted by publisher influence?

Because that's between five and ten million dollars consumers didn't spend buying AAA titles from big name publishers — ergo, competition. And it's still early days yet. Furthermore, some donors paid well in excess of the price they'd pay for a game on a Game Stop shelf.

A quick summary, then:

  • Current Kickstarter game projects are worth millions of dollars after only a few months.
  • Some donors have paid more in Kickstarter donations than they do on new copies of AAA games.
  • The Double Fine Adventure Game and Banner Saga have made 750% of their target budget each.

Might it crash? Sure. But it doesn't, ultimately, come down to net profit because we can't compare crowdfunded projects and publisher-model projects on a comparable timescale. Nor is the bottom line in any artful industry profit, because consumer reaction can't be reliably predicted, such as in the breakaway hits of Demons Souls and Dark Souls, The Witcher and other stuff. What this ultimately does come down to is the consumer, because they decide which games are played and which efforts are rewarded. And the fact that some consumers — especially consumers with a strong gaming history — would rather spend $100 on a gamble than $50 on AAA game should give publishers pause for thought.

Swordsman TroperReclaiming The BladeWatch
ARealCard Since: Apr, 2012
#442: Apr 21st 2012 at 9:51:51 AM

For a new idea, consumers willingly parting with cash and taking a chance that might not pay off?
Well, first off, no, not a new idea, its been around for years and hasn't been successful in the slightest, its "successful" now because its been given free advertising because Double Fine used it.

Second of all, no, its not competition, as it hasn't provided a single game, and you have no proof that a single person who donated then didn't spend that money on the same number of videogames.

And third, once again, you don't understand the consumer. How generous the consumer is while their attention is held is completely and utterly irrelevant - as soon as it is lost, they will not seek out further projects of their own will. Thats not how people work. Its been very clear - the Kickstarters that have been successful have been the ones that have been given this free advertising - all others continue to lag in the dust. Its like claiming that after Kony 2012, all other charities would start receiving the same amount of income after it moved out of the spotlight. Yeah, that happened, didn't it?

RocketDude Face Time from AZ, United States Since: May, 2009
Face Time
#443: Apr 21st 2012 at 1:53:40 PM

The thing is that people actually want to see stuff like Wasteland 2 and Shadowrun done right, without the potential to be tainted by the presence of a publisher. They're tired of seeing the same old modern shooters and such. It's why we have stuff like Tribes: Ascend, Mech Warrior: Online, Dota 2, and those Kickstarter projects generate so much attention: people want to see these things exist, and if given the chance to recreate the heyday of 90s gaming, they'll jump for it.

Sure, word-of-mouth factors into it, but then again, word-of-mouth isn't bad. Plus, there's always going to be those who keep their eyes peeled for these things.

edited 21st Apr '12 1:55:07 PM by RocketDude

"Hipsters: the most dangerous gang in the US." - Pacific Mackerel
ARealCard Since: Apr, 2012
#444: Apr 21st 2012 at 2:51:25 PM

And thee are maybe 2% of these donations at the most. So slash all these budgets 50 fold, and you'll see what its gonna settle to be like.

And yeah, [people want to return to the 90s heyday, until they then remember the 90's sucked and we were glad we left it, including for games.

ShadowScythe from Australia Since: Dec, 2009
#445: Apr 21st 2012 at 3:53:36 PM

Sir, I'm starting to think you're trolling with that incredibly flame baity 90s games sucked comment.

ARealCard Since: Apr, 2012
#446: Apr 21st 2012 at 4:23:28 PM

Or rather, are being realistic and managing to keep a non-nostalgic viewpoint of those games.

RhymeBeat Bird mom from Eastern Standard Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: In Lesbians with you
Bird mom
#447: Apr 21st 2012 at 5:17:14 PM

Not saying that the 90s were perfect but that period of gaming did produce loads of good games.

The Crystal Caverns A bird's gotta sing.
ARealCard Since: Apr, 2012
#448: Apr 21st 2012 at 5:38:14 PM

And this period produces loads of better games.

RocketDude Face Time from AZ, United States Since: May, 2009
Face Time
#449: Apr 21st 2012 at 5:40:47 PM

I'm not going to argue that Team Fortress 2 isn't good, but this era produced Blacklight: Tango Down, Painkiller: Resurrection, and Need For Speed: The Run.

I don't mind a throwback or two at this point.

edited 21st Apr '12 5:41:18 PM by RocketDude

"Hipsters: the most dangerous gang in the US." - Pacific Mackerel
RhymeBeat Bird mom from Eastern Standard Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: In Lesbians with you
Bird mom
#450: Apr 21st 2012 at 5:47:31 PM

Mostly because of limits of technology though, not that the ideas of the game were bad...

The Crystal Caverns A bird's gotta sing.

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