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North Korea:

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Yea. So how is it different from imperial england?
I will always cherish the chance of a new beggining.
Euo will do!
Um... Parliament mean anything to you? Magna Carta? Habeas Corpus? The Law Lords?

edited 12th Jan '13 7:52:32 PM by Euodiachloris

"When all else failed, she tried being reasonable." ~ Pratchett, Johnny and the Bomb
[up]

They had many of that stuff.

at least in 1900´s period. Things went downhill during the war its true, but it is nowhere comparable to NK.

Archeologist have rescently found peasent written constitutions and peasent libraries stocked with the works of thinkers such as Rousseou and Voltair which would have been impossible if it where not for Imperial Japan and the Meiji revolution.

TO make such a comparison to NK is mediocre.

edited 12th Jan '13 7:59:18 PM by Baff

I will always cherish the chance of a new beggining.
 904 Lascoden, Sat, 12th Jan '13 7:59:41 PM from Missouri, USA
...
[up]Well, my point was that saying that it resembles Imperial Japan is pointless because the characteristics in common match those of many others. And, I may be off on this, but when most people say "Imperial Japan" they refer to that time period, when they veered from isolationism to imperialism.
boop
Imperial Japan goes from 1870 TO 1945.

It can even be said that is extends as far back as the Bakumatsu all the way to the end of WWII.
I will always cherish the chance of a new beggining.
 906 Best Of, Sat, 12th Jan '13 8:09:35 PM from Finland Relationship Status: Falling within your bell curve
FABRICATI DIEM, PVNC!
Topic...?
Quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur.
 907 Lascoden, Sat, 12th Jan '13 8:12:53 PM from Missouri, USA
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[up]Does it count if we're comparing North Korea to past governments, such as Imperial Japan? If it helps, the point was raised in a book about North Korea. If not, sorry for the derail.
boop
I'm not sure how imperialist North Korea is in attitude, since most of their aggression is centered on South Korea, where it is technically a civil war. And, if they were Imperialist, luckily China and other regional powers would have none of it so they'd have zero friends if they tried anything of the sort that Imperial Japan pulled.

I'm finding their new leader to be unorthodox but with limited media access and lazy journalism I still have no clue what his actual power level is within the country and what the appetite for change is within the NK leadership. I mean, if they were half-way intelligent but still oppressive, they would still want the economic reforms that Kim talks about because it would make their bark have more teeth behind it.

 909 Lascoden, Sat, 12th Jan '13 9:19:42 PM from Missouri, USA
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[up]Have you not seen Red Dawn/played Homefront? They are, like, two seconds away from steamrolling over the US!

In all seriousness though, I don't have high hopes for Kim Jong-un being too different. According to the speech he gave in April, he considers "Kimilsungism-Kimjongilism" to be the core of their ideology. Granted, it's quite possible he just didn't want to seem too different so early, so I still have a bit of hope.
boop
The thing about NK, its that is a holocaust, but there arent really any good options to stop it, and the leadership its soo goofy its hard not to laugh at them and referece Home Front repeatedly over and over again.

I will always cherish the chance of a new beggining.
 911 Deviant Braeburn, Sat, 12th Jan '13 10:35:01 PM from Dysfunctional California
Wandering Jew
POSTED IN WRONG THREAD

edited 12th Jan '13 10:35:51 PM by DeviantBraeburn

Everything is Possible.

But some things are more Probable than others.
JEBAGEDDON 2016

 912 Trivialis, Sat, 12th Jan '13 10:44:55 PM from contemplation
Happiness
Nazi Germany, though, wasn't content with its own land. It spent a lot of time toppling down other countries.

Another thing with the Holocaust was that it didn't stop with mere concentration camps. It shocked me to learn that there were extermination camps, disguised as ordinary concentration camps and used to kill most arrivees on the spot. I don't see that in North Korea, partly because they don't have many foreigners to begin with.
I don't need praise, I need help.
[up]

I say its more like the Cambodian regime, but without U.S backing.
I will always cherish the chance of a new beggining.
 914 Deviant Braeburn, Sat, 12th Jan '13 10:58:04 PM from Dysfunctional California
Wandering Jew
[up] The Khmer Rouge was even more kill happy than the Nazis.

edited 12th Jan '13 10:59:01 PM by DeviantBraeburn

Everything is Possible.

But some things are more Probable than others.
JEBAGEDDON 2016

[up]

Most of them starved do. That is why its more similar to NK.
I will always cherish the chance of a new beggining.
 916 Achaemenid, Sun, 13th Jan '13 3:04:44 AM from Mitakihara Town, Copenhagen Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
North Korea is not content with its own land. Almost all strong dictatorships are predatory in nature. North Korea is not strong, however.

If we examine the actions of places like Red China and the USSR in their early days, we see similar predatory moves - Stalin overrunning Ukraine, trying to overrun Poland, gobbling up the Baltic States when everyone was distracted by WWII. Similarly, Red China invaded and subjugated Tibet. They could do this because they were strong. Ditto Hitler. North Korea is just as expansionist and predatory as Mao or Stalin, but unlike Mao and Stalin she doesn't have the chops to back it up.

edited 13th Jan '13 3:05:35 AM by Achaemenid

Die Russen seind gefallen in Preußen ein;

Auf, laßt uns sie zeigen, daß wir brave Landeskinder sein!
 917 Deviant Braeburn, Sun, 13th Jan '13 3:42:04 AM from Dysfunctional California
Wandering Jew
Actual territorial expansionism through warfare died in 1991 with Saddam's failure to annex Kuwait. This is largely due to how closly connected the international community has become.

Nowadays its far harder to actually gain territory through war. If it wasn't, China would be launching invasions into Central Asia.

edited 13th Jan '13 3:44:36 AM by DeviantBraeburn

Everything is Possible.

But some things are more Probable than others.
JEBAGEDDON 2016

 918 Silasw, Sun, 13th Jan '13 4:06:29 AM from The UNITED Kingdom Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Globalist Bunny
When was the last time a country managed to successfully annex another one?
"And the Bunny nails it!" ~ Gabrael

"If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we." ~ Cyran
 919 Ramidel, Sun, 13th Jan '13 4:41:14 AM Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Nonmilitarily: West Germany's annexation of East Germany, I think.

Militarily: Red China's annexation of Tibet.

Partial annexation/land grab: 2008 Russian annexation of South Ossetia.

betaalpha
Hmmm... if North Korea somehow ended up with the ability to take over other countries I wonder if they would actually do so. Sending common soldiers to occupy a territory would open them out to lots of unhealthy international ideas and ways of living, which would dilute the total control the Kims have had over their subject's thoughts and actions. Maybe if they nuked the territory or had access to legions of loyal robots or mind control they could do so. But that's for another computer game :)

Rational Wiki reckons Juche is definitely racist, and could also be fascist. Interesting in that unlike most racist tracts, Juche paints the Korean race as wonderful but also weak, and of course therefore in need of a strong leader.

edited 13th Jan '13 5:39:55 AM by betaalpha

 921 Achaemenid, Sun, 13th Jan '13 6:32:50 AM from Mitakihara Town, Copenhagen Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
[up][up]

Russia didn't really annex South Ossetia and Abkhazia, instead allowing them to form breakaway states from Georgia. Of course, these nations are essentially Russian puppets, which shows the kind of way annexation will likely commence in future.

You're also forgetting Israel's annexation of East Jerusalem, the West Bank, and the Golan, Mauritania and Morocco's annexation of West Sahara, Ethiopia annexing the Somali Ogaden, Britain annexing Rockall, and India annexing Sikkim and Portugese India.

The re-unification of Germany does not count, as annexation is considered in international law to be expansionist or unequal, whilst re-unification is the preferred term.

edited 13th Jan '13 6:35:12 AM by Achaemenid

Die Russen seind gefallen in Preußen ein;

Auf, laßt uns sie zeigen, daß wir brave Landeskinder sein!
 922 The Bat Pencil, Sun, 13th Jan '13 6:33:33 AM from Glasgow, Scotland Relationship Status: I'm just a hunk-a, hunk-a burnin' love
He posits that North Korea's regime is actually very close to what a "completed" Third Reich might look like, and notes that it most resembles Imperial Japan in character.

I think that this kind of thing is more to do with Orwell's well-made observation that all cult-based dictatorships are broadly the same as each other and have the same logical conclusion; that is, North Korea's 1984 setup. There isn't an overarching goal other than inventing more reasons for the dictatorship to continue to exist.
And let us pray that come it may (As come it will for a' that)
Actual territorial expansionism through warfare died in 1991 with Saddam's failure to annex Kuwait. This is largely due to how closly connected the international community has become.

Afghanistan and Iraq beg to disagree.

There are also many Israeli commentators that lament not having occupied Lebanon.

edited 13th Jan '13 9:28:11 AM by Baff

I will always cherish the chance of a new beggining.
 924 FF Shinra, Sun, 13th Jan '13 9:32:45 AM from Ivalice, apparently Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
Beware the Crazy Man.
Considering NK hasn't nor probably ever will annex other territory, could we get back to the topic and perhaps make a new thread for this topic, since it is rather interesting?
Final Fantasy, Foreign Policy, and Bollywood. Helluva combo, that...
[up]

Well, NK did almost overrun SK during the KW.

But I dont know if that would qualify as expansionism, since its more like a civil war.
I will always cherish the chance of a new beggining.
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