Warhammer 40,000

so.... trying to decide between two different sets of half tracks for a Taurox Prime....

I'm still willing to accept Ollanius Pius if the Emperor dragged enough Imperial Cannon Fodder with him onto Horus's ship in a "Our reserves have reserves" sense.

Given enough numbers, and a little luck, I'm willing to believe one mortal soul made it through the meat grinder of mind, body and soul that was Horus's flagship and managed to make it to the Emperor's side at that crucial moment.

Alternatively, canonize the Kulture Boyz and have one of them be the in-universe writer, Cain-style. With proper prose and everything.

My headcanon for Ollanius being on the ship with Emps and co. is that he wasn't even supposed to be there. It's just that when the Chaos Gods mucked with Emps and co.'s attempt to teleport into the Vengeful Spirit so that the group was split up all over the ship, it involved causing a sudden surge in the teleporter that just happened to send several wayward "bolts" of teleportation energy every which way. Some of the objects/people that were hit with those bolts were lucky enough to either simply get dragged with the boarding party and subjected to the same scattering effect, and even luckier ones just got teleported to somewhere else within the Imperial Palace that was still in the "safe zone" (i.e. still under Imperial control, with no ongoing battles); Ollanius was one of those who belonged to the former case. Others were not so lucky; they got teleported into the walls/floors/ceilings of the ship or random places in the Imperial Palace, or sent straight into the middle of a battle (and probably got slaughtered while still disoriented), or got vaporized by the massive amount of energy ripping through their bodies, or (in the worst case scenario) got stuck in the Warp mid-teleport and subsequently devoured by the awaiting Daemons.

As for how Ollanius survived the Chaos-corrupted environment... Most of the Daemons (both the free-roaming and the environment-bound ones) were too focused on the Astartes and/or Custodes that happened to be around, and Ollanius may have been more or less escorted by one or more Astartes/Custodes (if several, not necessarily at the same time; it could've been a succession of such who passed on the duty as they finally died) who cared enough about mortal lives that they refused to take the pragmatic option of leaving the present mortal(s) to die, and resolved to see to it that as many of them would survive this ordeal. By the time Ollanius' ad hoc party reached the chamber were the Emperor and Horus fought their battle, Ollanius was the only surviving member.

I also like the idea of the Vengeful Spirit deliberately reaching out and snaring random people from places where the palace's defenses had faltered.

So I was discussing with one of my mates at Kill Team today regarding the autocannons:

He says the reason why you'd take them over heavy bolters is when there's armour. Those things are much better can-openers than a heavy bolter. They both cost the same, but you're going to be penetrating more with an autocannon than a heavy bolter.

Yes/No. Autocannons cannot inflict penetrating hits in 7th edition, but every glance/pen roll will slice off one HP. with 2 shots at strength 7, a cluster of autocannons can consistently slice HP off AV 10/11 vehicles, especially vehicles with only 2 HP. Against 3+ HP, the odds of a penetrating hit taking out immediately or at least reducing its effectiveness is often more important for cutting down on incoming fire. Also at AV 12 you have diminishing returns, at AV 13 you are just chucking dice for a hail mary, and above that (AV 14+ and AV 13+ with flare shields) you might as well start potshotting grots. The autocannon has its place, which is light vehicles and medium Infantry (4+ save and toughness 4+, or toughness 5+).

edited 29th Mar '17 9:31:28 PM by ViperMagnum357

Autocannons can inflict penetrating hits. They just don't make a vehicle explode very often (from the vehicle damage table, that is).

Right, forgot about the extra modifiers like open topped. My point still stands, though-against meatier non-superheavy vehicles you are better off with strong, high pen weapons with a chance for an explode result or shaking it up to reduce firepower. I should probably get some sleep before I type up any more half baked thoughts.

edited 29th Mar '17 10:17:32 PM by ViperMagnum357

When it comes to getting fluff, they're second only to Space Marines.

edited 30th Mar '17 12:07:08 AM by TheCuriousFan

As the current conversation is about comparing autocannons and heavy bolters, thought I would do the rules for these weapons in this weeks 2nd Edition Thursday.

Auto-cannon: Auto-cannon are automatic, self-loading cannon firing a high-velocity hail of solid shells. They are rapid firing weapons that can lay down a burst of fire to cover advancing troops, or strafe enemy-held positions. These weapons are considered ideally suited for attacking enemy vehicles and fortifications from long ranges. Auto-cannon are popular weapons in Imperial forces but are also common amongst Orks, who especially enjoy the blaze of shells and mind-numbing recoil! Short Range - 0-20"; Long Range - 20-72"; Strength - 8; Damage - D6; Save Modifier - -3; Vehicle Armour Penetration - 2D6+8; Sustained Fire^note the special dice with 1, 1, 2, 2, 3 and Jam! on it - 1 Dice.

Heavy Bolter: The heavy bolter is a larger version of the standard bolter. It is sometimes known as the "back breaker" or "bruiser" by the crew who have to carry it because of its great weight - but also because of the heavy punishment it can deal out to the enemy. If fires a bolt which contains a more powerful propellant and explosive charge than the normal bolter. The heavy bolter is used to support more lightly equipped troops, and is designed to operate as an anti-personnel weapon although with the capacity to destroy lightly armoured vehicles. It is large and cumbersome but also very fast firing and effective. Like all bolters it makes a loud and impressive noise as it is fired, especially when its bolt missiles hit their target and explode. Short Range 0-20"; Long Range - 20-40"; Strength - 5; Damage - D4; Save Modifier - -2; Vehicle Armour Penetration - D6+D4+5; Sustained Fire - 2 Dice; Move or Fire.

Imperial heavy bolters could also had the option of purchasing Hellfire Shells filled with mutagenic acid. An Imperial heavy bolter with Hellfire Shells could fire them instead of firing normally. When firing these shells, the heavy bolter had the same range as it normally did but only fired a single shot rather than using the Sustained Fire dice. If hit, the target was automatically wounded on a D6 roll of 2+ with the target suffering D6 Damage. Hellfire Shells had a -2 Save Modifier but if the shot was saved then the acid would splatter onto other nearby models. All models within 2" of the target that passed their saving throw were automatically wounded on a D6 roll of 6 and suffered 1 wound. Armour saves could be taken as normal without any modifier. Hellfire Shells could only harm living targets, non-living targets (such as vehicles) treated a hit by a Hellfire Shell as a hit by a normal heavy bolter shot.

With all this discussion of heavy bolters and autocannon, where does the assault cannon fit in all this? It has both more power and a higher fire rate than the heavy bolter...

It's limited to Imperial vehicles and Terminators though. It was also one of the more powerful heavy weapons in 2nd Edition with stats of Short Range - 0-12" with a +1 to hit; Long Range - 12-32"; Strength 8; Damage D10; Save Modifier - -3; Vehicle Armour Penetration - D6+D10+8; Sustained Fire - 3 Dice; Special - If three Jam! results are rolled on the Sustained Fire dice then the assault cannon exploded, instantly killing the user with no armour save possible.

Dangerous, but badass. Wouldn't want to be in front of it.

that's the thing that always got me.... how is that that weedy little assault cannon somehow more powerful than the fuckhuge Punisher Gatling Cannon mounted on the Leman Russ Punisher?

edited 30th Mar '17 2:00:56 AM by FieldMarshalFry

Humble Bundle is doing a Horus Heresy sale. 15 bucks nets you the first 16 books + a bunch of audio books and a comic or two. Proceeds go to the UNHCR, i.e the refugee department at the UN. Or Black Library, if you feel like chucking cash in their direction. Or somewhere in between.

edited 30th Mar '17 2:10:23 AM by math792d

Maybe the assault cannon fires a different kind of ammunition, which would explain why it's got higher base stats but a lower rate of fire - it's harder to manufacture assault cannon rounds than it is punisher rounds, and so they need to conserve ammunition to a degree.

(See also, a boltgun being more powerful than an autogun that's roughly the same size, because the boltgun fires exploding gyrojet ammunition and the autogun fires bits of shaped metal.)

edited 30th Mar '17 3:24:51 AM by CountDorku

from the descriptions in stuff like the Deathwatch RPG and Only War, they both appear to be standard solid projectile weapons, barrel spins fast and unleashes a swath of death and destruction in the form of firing large calibre bullets at a stupidly high rate

Gameplay and Story Segregation is a thing.

I just read about the Horus Heresy Humble Bundle and guess who's the biggest Contributor?

Bruva Alfabusa himself!

edited 31st Mar '17 7:40:39 AM by MrTerrorist

Ugh, I have most of those books so it'd be redundant for me to participate XD

it's here! Kitten battling an Indecisive Mollusc in a children's card game for the soul of Magnus!

edited 31st Mar '17 3:41:23 AM by FieldMarshalFry

... THAT WAS AWESOMELY HILARIOUS AND HILARIOUSLY AWESOME! Also, 100 Thronecoins on that being part of TTS!Emperor's extremely complicated and ongoing Xanatos Roulette Speed Chess.

Some cool new stuff for Horus Heresy on pre-order from Forge World: Legion Moritats and for Iron Warriors fans Tyrant Siege Terminators.

I love all the different formations of Astartes we're getting in the Horus Heresy sets.