Code Geass

It's funny as hell to see folks claiming Word of God has clearly said Lelouch is dead, when no such thing has happened if you actually read the fine print, or other people like kay4today somehow comparing that claim with what was merely a bit of website misdirection about Nunnally while the show was still on the air. That's not "lying" but simply reflecting the ongoing story.

Truth is, they've always had an "out" about Lelouch (he obviously physically died, but maybe his immortality was triggered upon death) and all you have to do is wait and see if they'll ever use it or, like Char and Amuro, leave the question officially unanswered forever. I guess we could see a "Full Frontal" version of Lelouch though, to mess with you guys even more.

edited 2nd Jul '13 12:52:46 PM by Souther

...It's fairly definitive that he's dead. Here the dude more or less backups what I said at first, that Lulu's death thematically follows from his character.

I think if he came back, it wouldn't be because of some grand design but because of them caving to petulant fan demand.

edited 2nd Jul '13 2:01:07 PM by Scherzo09

Sources or it didn't happen.

They also acknowledged that fans may interpret it differently. As though we need Word of God authority for that!

I can't imagine why else they'd leave it even a little ambiguous anyway.

& That's exactly what I meant by people not reading the fine print. I've read all that and I smile at how some of you fellows miss the point.

The writer never says that Lelouch is definitely dead in the interview. Only that he was killed, which is not under dispute, and that his story came to an end. He wasn't even being asked about that particular topic or whether Lelouch is dead or alive in the end. None of that means, in a story with Codes of immortality that activate upon death like with C.C. and Charles, that Lelouch would necessarily remain dead after being killed. Especially in a show like this where, in short, people don't always die when they are killed. But at least in this case there are direct precedents for how all the immortality nonsense works. The story of Lelouch is over because the tale really has no place to go right now, but the future might change that.

I'm also not claiming that his return, or what I suggested as the introduction of a "stand-in" character who looks suspiciously the same and makes people feel uneasy but has some complicated circumstances, would necessarily be part of a grand design. Tomino had no idea that Full Frontal would exist, but it obviously panders to Char fanboys and girls to have someone just like him literally going around playing that role and being voiced by the same person.

edited 2nd Jul '13 2:53:21 PM by Souther

And here's also the position of Sunrise on all this mess, taken from an official panel two years ago:

12:58:03 <bay|NYCC|Sunrise> Q: At the end of Code Geass R2, does lelouch reallydie?

12:58:21 <bay|NYCC|Sunrise> A; Actually, as you can probably tell by watching the series, we leave that up to the viewers opinion

12:58:56 <bay|NYCC|Sunrise> I think the best part is you can debate and discuss

http://www.toonzone.net/forums/anime-forum/261145-new-code-geass-project-announced-7.html#.UdNMLfk9PHQ

edited 2nd Jul '13 2:56:40 PM by Souther

B-But Lulu...

edited 2nd Jul '13 5:26:52 PM by kay4today

The post also mentions he's listed under the deceased section.

I think having him be resurrected is just cheap. Resurrection in general is cheap imo.

edited 2nd Jul '13 3:19:33 PM by Scherzo09

There's definitely worse ways to go about things. Like, say, ZR. He abandoned his responsibility to the world.

@Mad Skillz: If that's the case, Villetta, Ohgi, Cornelia, etc. didn't deserve their good ending. They either sabotaged him or did even worse and truly needless atrocities.

ZR didn't happen because he wanted to atone by separating himself from Nunnally. It happened because he thought he already lost her, on top of everything else (Shirley, the Black Knights turning on him, Kallen nearly going down with him). He had a death wish.

He would have had his hands full enough if he were to stay alive to help reconstructing to be with Nunnally that often anyways. Alternately, Nunnally could have somehow died instead along the way, leaving him without her. For added effect, have him take CC's code, and have him remain behind the mask for the rest of his life. That would be the perfect Bittersweet Ending. Plus, he wouldn't be abandoning the dirty work of rebuilding the world, but would be helping with it.

@Drakyndra: There's no such equivalency between his dad and himself as Zero. He had helped set up a legitimate front against Britannia in the UFN, and did things more out of necessity, and with less severity than ZR. Had he been able to stay the course as Zero and with his original plan, he could begin atoning by carrying on with the reconstruction. ZR, by the way, was Lelouch in Not So Different from Charles mode. Except again it was practically an excuse for him to die.

edited 4th Jul '13 12:00:24 AM by azul120

I think the terms of the contract pretty much guaranteed he'd die, tbh.

I would have preferred he'd turned into an honest to god villain because I think that would've been more sympathetic than his 'fake' villany as Emperor.

Guaranteed he'd die? I don't follow.

He could have taken C. C.'s code at any time and fulfilled her contract. His geass was powerful enough.

Agreed that him getting driven into madness would have been more believable. Or just not caring enough about the world after what happened and letting Charles instigate Ragnarok.

Silly fanfic/crossover idea: said event would trigger the Mushroom War that would create the World of Ooo.

edited 4th Jul '13 9:32:11 AM by azul120

Well I mean thematically it ensured he could never be a normal human being again.

Ah, but if Lelouch indeed became L.L. upon death then that "not a normal human" aspect has already been covered!

Especially when the contract was basically describing immortality with the whole "a different time, a different providence" deal, and what C.C. says at the very end of R2 about the loneliness part being a little wrong, fits that interpretation.

Seriously though, you can turn the whole picture upside down or right side up if you want.

edited 4th Jul '13 11:57:24 AM by Souther

So Lulu having survived is pretty obvious, yay!

"If that's the case, Villetta, Ohgi, Cornelia, etc. didn't deserve their good ending. They either sabotaged him or did even worse and truly needless atrocities."

Exactly. That's what pisses me off so much about the ending.

Really? For me that's not remotely worth getting upset. They're both on the winning side after Lelouch dropped "dead" in the end. We all know the winners always write history and they can easily find ways to either minimize, cover up or distract from their own crimes. You scratch my back and I scratch yours, etc. Lots of dirt can be thrown around but it wouldn't serve anyone's interests nor those of keeping the peace.

edited 6th Jul '13 12:13:52 PM by Souther

Well, I for one get annoyed when people as despicable as Cornelia and Villetta get away with their crimes. I especially hate that Villetta got an happy ending, when she's the kind of lowlife who sides with the people who are more convenient to her.

And a "peace" gotten with a method such as ZR isn't worth crap anyway.

edited 6th Jul '13 12:42:46 PM by LilyNadesico2

But she was in wuv so it's okay

At best, they're piggybacking off of Lelouch's efforts, without whom they'd still be oppressing Numbers.

edited 9th Jul '13 11:09:05 PM by azul120

&: To be fucking honest, basically everyone but Euphy and Milly end up kinda being horrible people in Geass.

I've mentioned before though that Britannia's ridiculously evil actions near the beginning of the show seem to be forgotten as the series wears on.

So exactly what was horrible about Shirley, Nunnally, Sayoko, Rivalz, Cecile and one or two other characters, I mean yeah Code Geass definitely had some very flawed people in it, but I don't think there's anything horrible about the people I mentioned above, I'm just looking for context from you explain why you feel everyone but Milly and Euphie are horrible people I'm just interested to find out your reasons for feeling about the characters that way.

edited 10th Jul '13 3:13:27 AM by romancechina99

He said basically, not absolutely.

I know what he meant I just wanted him to expand upon why he thinks a lot for the characters are horrible people, I'm just curious as to why he thinks that way, not that I'm disagreeing with him just curious about his view that's all

Well Shirley was a stupid slut who got in the way of Rolo x Lelouch. That bitch.

I already asked this on the Headscratchers tab, so I'll ask it here. Where exactly do Knightmare Frames keep their ammo, I mean, those thing s on their backs, aren't they the "Frame" part of a KMF?