Doctor Who

It just seemed like the standard "ominous knock". If there's only one knock at a time, humans kind of ignore it, because it might just be something falling over. Two is just odd, but three sends a clear signal to us that there's something behind it, because 1) the rule of three means that three of anything is automatically important to us and 2) three knocks that happen on an even timing like that is clearly not an accident.

I wonder if that person was always in the vault. They played up Bill's worry that them going to the past would change the future and while Twelve dismissed her worries by showing her the newspaper I can't help but wonder if that's a red herring and they really did change the future somehow.

edited 2nd May '17 7:46:29 AM by Chariot

On Thin Ice: I liked the Doctor's little speech. Otherwise, it was quite 'unremarkable'. Not in a bad way, mostly exactly what you'd expect from a Doctor Who timetravel episode, but not astounding either. And, oh, CGI was noticeably bad.

Also plotwise, the monster in the Thames river was underwhelming. Instead of mysterious thing, it just is there ... eats what it eats ... and then at the end of episode, is gone.

Concerning: I know there was a not-insignificant Po C population in London during the 19th century. But the customers on the market looked more middle class than I would have expected. Maybe I'm thinking this bit too much, but I can't help but wonder if Moffat's anti-white wash was bit overdone?

edited 2nd May '17 5:14:40 PM by maus42

There were a couple of middle class looking people of color, but that doesn't mean much.

This is England, and Regency or not, appearances are everything. They're the kind of folks to wear their best clothes to a fray rather than look bad. "What would the neighbors think" and all that.

Plus, I doubt you could call it anti-white washing. Its called "accurate representation." There were still black street urchins, and Sutcliffe basically acted like Bill was sub-human like a lot of people did (and still do).

I dunno, if you're ever thinking positive, non-slave, non oppressed representation of Po C has "gone too far" I have to posit the problem is not with the program you're watching but rather closer to home.

It was like 4 lines and 5 background actors. I guarantee there were a historically accurate number of white people in the episode, perhaps over-compensated for? I mean, we weren't there. We don't know how many white people were actually in London in that age

edited 2nd May '17 9:09:45 PM by frosty

And as Diamanda Hagan pointed out on her twitter, there are records of black people in the British Isles going back to the Romans. That is, before the Anglo-Saxon peoples showed up. (The Celts are a distinctly different ethnic group with a different genetic background up to that point.) So, basically, to have a period where it's historically inaccurate to have black people showing up in Britain, you have to go back like two thousand years, and even then it's iffy because people, you know, travel...

edited 2nd May '17 9:30:06 PM by Zendervai

Everyone knows that, for some strange reason, no African nation ever developed boats or boat-like technology, certainly not on a scale that would enable mass transit. After all, if they did, movies and television shows would put them in historical fiction on the regular, given their known desire for historical accuracy.

-__-

I mean, the diversity of regency london was kind of the point of the episode, plus the idea that historical fiction is usually whitewashed. Who cares if it's a bit more diverse it should be, there's a fucking fish under the thames too and that's not historically accurate.

Hell its not like we saw the entirety of London, maybe an unusually high number of black Londoners just happened to be out and about that day?

Two-hearted 13+ lived alien who flies around time and space in a blue box that's bigger on the inside, which is powered by an entire literal star, comes from the future to investigate the giant eel living under the river with the expert aid of a cafeteria worker whose knowledge of alien life consists primarily of sci-fi movies.

The demographics of Regency England are kind of trivial.

I love the way that the Doctor's finally admitted that he needs his Companions to give him orders. He's never openly stated that before, and to hear him say it to Bill simultaneously made me jerk back in my seat in startlement and go "yeah, you do, don't ya?" to him.

If he didn't work it out with Amy and Donna (who both outright told him he shouldn't travel alone) what he can fill in of his time with Clara seems to have gotten it through

Well, it has been brought up before...in Kill the Moon where it kind of landed with a thud. It worked better in Thin Ice because it wasn't a question of "if you get this wrong, the entire Earth is doomed" and it didn't have the incredibly strong "humans are bastards" message attached to it. (Yes, that was here to a degree, but it was mostly focused on the one guy, not the entire human race.)

On the one hand, it's good for new viewers that each series kind of takes things from square one again. From the perspective of a long-time viewer, though, it does get a little tiresome that the Doctor seems to come to the same realizations, for the "first" time, again and again. Perhaps that's unavoidable though, if the series is to continue. This episode reminded my a bit of that episode of Torchwood where a company was selling meat cut from some huge alien critter that could regenerate itself.

As to the diversity, people do get around. England had slaves after all, and after slavery was abolished, they'd have the descendants of those slaves. Plus, they'd have whatever folks happened to migrate to their little ol' island. Just like you'd find a few Caucasians in ancient China for one reason or another, you'll find people of color in merry old England. History is a bit of a whitewash, as the Doctor said, in the West at least. More accurately, though, every nation's "history" is usually the history of it's dominant peoples. The scenes in question involved ordinary Londoners in Regency England. As such, they come, in varying degrees, in all the colors we've got.

edited 5th May '17 8:41:36 AM by Robbery

...That was an episode. I can't really say much more than that, I didn't dislike it, it just didn't interest me much. Maybe I'm just not in a good mood, but it was just... meh.

Human folly when interacting with non-human species seems to be our big theme this season.

edited 6th May '17 1:52:39 PM by Wackd

I did like 12 specifically using the world "infodump" though.

A person the Doctor would want to stay confined, and who would want to hear a story about people dying horribly, but whom the Doctor isn't content to just let rot in an empty prison.

Person in the vault is Missy????

I don't know.

If not her, then it's Simm-Master, since we know he's coming back.

Hearing said person play Pop goes the Weasel when the Doctor told him college Students were being killed convinced me that it has to be a Master at the least.

I kind of doubt it's Missy, if only because that would be a really weird mystery to have. We know she can get out of certain-death situations no problem and the idea that she'd just stay in a vault without a very good reason is just strange. Simm-Master, on the other hand, there would be something very odd going on there. We see basically everything he did. If it was a pre-Sound of Drums Simm-Master, that would be fascinating. Probably isn't though.

edited 6th May '17 9:24:16 PM by Zendervai

It's probably Simms. I doubt it is Missy/Michelle Gomez. Actually, I'd bet it is Susan before I'd bet it was Missy. But it is probably Simms.

Who Back When updates:

Spinoffs collide, along with a precog testicle & the worst secret agent ever.
The Stolen Earth

The Doctor abandons Rose with a genocidal Donna
Journey's End

The latter episode only just came up and given how... controversial general opinion of this episode is, at least around here, I'm legitimately curious to see what they think of it.

edited 7th May '17 9:50:10 AM by sgamer82

That was... okay. Not particularly scary or memorable, but not bad either. I also learned that I can't recognize David Suchet without the fake accent or mustache. I do think that bringing Bill's housemates back to life was a cop out.

I'm leaning towards the prisoner being Missy.

Missy seems like the better call than Simm!Master, but it could always be someone else. Maybe even someone we haven't seen before.

But it does seem odd that the Doctor would be as friendly as he is with either of them. And kind of odd that he could trap them and hold them for so long.