Girl Genius

But there's no proof that Klaus is a construct. There's stories to that effect, but no-one has proved it, as far as I recall.

According to Kaja in posting Klaus is a construct.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/girlgenius/message/1717

edited 23rd Aug '09 10:10:59 PM by Hippogrif

But do the people of Europa, and specifically the Fifty Great Houses, know that? What we know doesn't matter to the story. We know that Othar's batshit crazy; to the people of Europa, he's a hero and a Gentleman Adventurer.

It matters that we know, because it establishes that a sufficiently bull headed individual can just plain ignore the "rules." In other words they're not a strong enough law to force Tarvek's hand if he has the leverage in other respects.

Interesting that Violetta, at least in jest, regards Sparky Meld as a courtship ritual. Wonder if that's an openly accepted position or just a random smart ass comment pointing out the obvious RE: Gil, Aggie and Tarvek.

From that page: "If you don't like that explanation, how about this one—we thought it was funny." Best. Response. Ever.

Klaus is Emperor of a good chunk of Europa by force of arms, a lot of things may be keeping people from accepting Klaus as a legitamate authority, but they can't deny he's an authority, unless they want to go into delusion.

The Conspiracy is after legitimacy, even if it's built on lies. But the animus against revivification appears to be a deep seated prejudice (perhaps grounded in very "unpleasant" experiences), that they may not be able to get past.

Just mulling things before returning to assigned articles...sigh.

So, ok. Frankly we don't know who or what anyone is going to prove to be by the end.

Agatha is a genetic Heterodyne, but beyond that we still have no proof that she is "The One True Heterodyne." Zola does seem to think she may be the real thing...and she might even be right. Agatha could be a bio-construct, for that matter. Genetically Heterodyne, but otherwise not actually naturally born and bred. Same can EASILY be imagined for both Tarvek and Gil. Gil could be revived, too, for that matter. We don't know how Klaus saved his life, after all. Could be in a very similar scenario: baby is sick and dies, Klaus brings him back, baby is rejected for having died, Klaus refuses to go along. Backstory is currently still so blank as to allow a lot of potential facts to emerge to change the entire lay of the land.

In the same sense, we don't know what the characters actually want, or why. Agatha is actually proving to be more attuned to this Lady Heterodyne stuff than Gil appears to have any real calling to the role of Heir to the Empire. And Tarvek may be battling like mad to gain the throne, but the one time he actually talked about it his goal was to remove a ruthless, despotic usurper and then bring Europa into peace and unity. Klaus IS a ruthless and despotic usurper, he hasn't managed to actually unify or bring Europa to peace (I mean, when the Jagers can date things in relation to the latest uprising you're not talking about a settled, peaceful Empire),and Tarvek appears to have been aimed at that goal since sometime prior to his actual conception, if Zola's hint about Mongfish fiddling proves true. So he may be less addicted to the option of rule than he is to finding a way to the other end of his destiny that does the world some good as he understands it.

So three for three of our Second Gen Sparks are going to end up with a) black marks against the clarity of their claims to rank, and b) some real questions regarding whether they want to Rule Europa, and why.

Ok, they're Sparks. A certain inherent "I shall rule the world!" personality factor is built in...

But it just seems like there's plenty of reason to think there's a whole lot of subversion of expectation waiting up ahead.

<<Klaus is Emperor of a good chunk of Europa by force of arms, a lot of things may be keeping people from accepting Klaus as a legitamate authority, but they can't deny he's an authority, unless they want to go into delusion.

The Conspiracy is after legitimacy, even if it's built on lies. But the animus against revivification appears to be a deep seated prejudice (perhaps grounded in very "unpleasant" experiences), that they may not be able to get past. >>

Klaus is Emperor by right of conquest NOW. But he got that way mostly because he was backed by the masses when he came back from exile, and that was because he offered a route out of the aftermath of the Other's War. According to write ups the current position is less admiring — and the Order is offering a similar carrot on a stick through Tarvek.

The thing is that even if Tarvek loses the support of the Order, if he ends up winning the friendship, support and alliance of The Heterodyne and The Baron's Heir he will ahve the leverage he needs to take the throne. I can see both Gil AND Klaus happily ceding rule IF they have come to believe Tarvek is actually a Good Guy who's up to the job. Neither one of them show any sign of actually liking the work.

My guess, though, is that no one will want that job, or that whoever gets it (including Tarvek) only gets it as a sort of terminal, end of series punishment assignment. If Tarvek twits through the entire series, he gets the throne as a booby prize. Or Zola does. Or whoever is "good' but not well liked.

Added thought:

DANG!!!! I knew something bothered me about the logic of tonight's strip.

Whether Tarvek loses his standing after death or not, he remains "the King" until he dies, and his authority to release Violetta should stand unchallenged. It's orders he gives after death that would come into question legally...

edited 23rd Aug '09 10:46:28 PM by Hippogrif

I disagree there. It's too important to be a booby prize. A bad ruler would be worse than nothing in a lot of ways, Klaus and Tarvek both seem resigned to doing a job they don't really like because it's they're job. Tarvek would rather be rebuilding the Muses and Klaus would like to be able to do his experiments, but both of them recognize that the status they have requires that they do the actual job as well as hold the title.

Yes, but I don't think Rule of Europa is going to be the "goal" of the primary characters. I think happy lives will prove to be their narrative lines. Which leaves the Foglios free to establish a legitimate and valid ruler while still making it clear that it's going to be pure, stinkin' misery for whoever gets the job. A good ruler.

I mean, ok; let's try this. I am not arguing for or against, just using Tarvek as the best "bad" character available for this line of hypothetical right now.

So: he's got a "legitimate" claim. His heart for the most part is proving to be in the right place. His understanding of politics is up there with Gil and Klaus' from what we've seen. And his philosophy really does appear to reflect Klaus' own—do what has to be done, and do it before it's done to you. He's got ties and legitimacy and can acquire more through the progress of the series.

Thus it is easily enough done to bring us to the end of the narrative all completely ready to see Tarvek stuck getting what he wished for in spades, but ALSO completely willing to concede he'd be rather good at it. Thus we can let the punishment fit the crime and let him have the Throne while Agatha and Gil escape that fate and Klaus gets to return to his wife and a life of bold adventure. I'm just not convinced taht the Foglios are going to make winning the Europa Risk Game into the true Grail Quest of the story. I think it's secondary to the actual purpose of the story, or the characters.

edited 23rd Aug '09 10:53:31 PM by Hippogrif

Just to add to the mess, I just checked the Girl Genius wiki, and it says that Wulfenbach is not one of the Fifty Families, that up until about a generation ago (when the Baron began to work on stopping the war,) it was "a minor house" (no capital "H"), and here he says that the Fifty Families "Haven't the authority — or the power— to forbid me anything." Note that the first thing he says is that they haven't the authority. Tangentially, "Baron" is a pretty minor rank. Zulenna was a Princess, Sleipner's father was a King, Tarvek goes by Prince.

Oh, it's even better. This story is running in an Eastern European analogue and while there may be an actual "Fifty Houses" the odds are pretty high that there's a prince or a king or the like lurking around every bend in the river. My own sense is that if you have the leverage you can write the rules—and to some extent "leverage" is defined by what you have the brass balls to insist on. Klaus appears to have won his position through sheer audacity as much as anything.

Now, as to whether any of the incoming generation have the audacity to make rule breaking a viable option? We get to see that up close and personal, if we're lucky. (grin)

Addendum regarding the current page:

It should be said, for the record, that between Gil and Tarvek, Agatha is running a high level of really badly presented premature announcements of engagement/proposals. I wonder when, if ever, any of them is going to get the order and the attitude straight? Like "courtship and an actual request rather than a proclamation." "I love you dearly," is also often an admirable statement PRIOR to announcing the relationship as a fait accomplis.

edited 24th Aug '09 2:40:02 AM by Hippogrif

I don't thing that Othar is batguano crazy. I think he's just a hopelessly naive Spark who manages to do some good as he stumbles around. And naive is the critical word.

I love today's page. The avalanche of reactions acting on characters whose reactions act on other characters, all well set up in advance, reminds me a bit of Gilbert and Sullivan and a bit of Shakespeare's Comedy of Errors. "I've changed my mind. LET'S JUST KILL HIM." "Wow. For the first time in my life, I don't actually want to." "Stop it! We're going to kill him properly." And all the while, those chroma igniters are counting down to Phase II: Resplendent Immolation.

And on the outside, Klaus plans and Otherclankevka is off doing we-don't-know-what while the Geisters tend their machines and Othar is busy Otharing against Agatha. And if anyone can find a way to pull off an improbable plan, it's Othar. He's probably got press gangs gathering up Mimmoths to invade Castle Heterodyne as Mimmoth Ninjas. (Remember what they do to machinery?) Could even Agatha's Dingbot Battalion withstand them?

By the way, how does Tarvek know that Violetta's nose is cold?

edited 24th Aug '09 4:54:37 AM by Greybeard Fan

Important clue about what date this is all taking place in here: Tarvek refers to Gil as a "Lothario", which is a reference to the 1703 play "The Fair Penitent." It's not much of a lower bound, but it's obvious by Agatha's reaction that she's familiar with the play as well, which means it's probably been around for a while and is well known enough for the term to have entered the common lexicon, especially considering it was an English play and the continent has some observed insularity from the island (I'd expect a play from Paris, for example, to propagate much faster). So I'd guess late 18th century, perhaps even early 19th. About where we thought it was, but there is that.

Also, it means this universe has an analogue to Nicholas Rowe, as well as the already known Rembrandt analogue (Van Rijn).

Don't forget Krosp calling Gil Prince Myshkin, a reference to Doestoyevsky's The Idiot. Doestoyevsky's dates are 1821-1881, though I don't know when The Idiot was written. I suspect that we can't be too certain on these dates; it's like trying to figure the birth year of Frederick from The Pirates of Penzance. I was born in leap year/And that birthday will not be reached by me 'til nineteen-forty!

The biggest trouble with dating by language use is that the Foglios have apparently indicated that the dialogue should be considered to be a translation from the original to suit our sensibilities.

By extension we get all sorts of usages that are purely anachronistic.

eg: "I did that?" "You totally did!" http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20090306

I wouldn't rule the lit references out. But I would also put a question mark beside them on the grounds that the "translators" may have simply used terms that would carry across cultures. Or, in less "Baker Street Irregular" language: they just wrote dialogue using contemporary Anglo-American terms.

I just want to say Violetta is great. After this she and Agatha are totally gonna braid each others' hair and talk about boys, and then she'll get married to Moloch and have a litter of panicky babies.

No, no. It's clearly Moloch/Wilhelm. ;)

This is the beginning of my supporting evidence.

I think Moloch certainly had a crush on Wilhelm, here, but Wilhelm doesn't appear to return the sentiment here, here, here (last panel), and here.

Come now, insulting the boy and calling him an idiot is par for the course for Girl Genius courting. ^_^

Anyway, not a shipper at all. Just having fun. I would like to see Wilhelm come back, though, I liked the girl.

Wilhelm was cool, and way too well established to have no further story waiting for her.

Mad Theory of the Day:

Von Pinn is the original Heterodyne Princess, who disappeared. She was injured or killed at some point, and brought back as a construct. Her "Beloved King" is Andronicus, her "Creator" may be Van Rjin. And if the inheritance laws regarding the revived dead are generally waived—she is the One True Heterodyne.

edited 24th Aug '09 4:51:42 PM by Hippogrif

Oh, I don't doubt that. I'm just saying that Moloch's appreciation of her seemed one-sided, and Violetta and Moloch are cute together.

Responding to your ninja edit: that would be a hell of a twist. I'd love the subversion of The Chosen One. "Sorry, Agatha, you're not the One True Heterodyne!" And then it being Von Pinn of all people.

edited 24th Aug '09 4:54:22 PM by Haven