* AccidentalInnuendo: Jack Frost's VerbalTic of "Hee-ho!" often comes in the form of ending a sentence with "ho!" Meaning he keeps calling people whores, much to the amusement of players. It's gone on for so long that it's probably no longer accidental at this point.
* AdaptationDisplacement: Shin Megami Tensei spun-off from the original Megami Tensei, which was based on the ''Literature/DigitalDevilStory'' series of books.
* AmericansHateTingle: In the West, the games that do get released and aren't ''Persona 3'', ''4'', or any of their spinoffs are under-the-radar {{Cult Classic}}s at best and bashed for not being ''Persona'' at worst. ''VideoGame/ShinMegamiTenseiIV'' was hit by the BiasSteamroller particularly hard, as it was released around the time that ''Persona'' really started to skyrocket in popularity outside of Japan; see BrokenBase below. As for the franchise as a whole, many Westerners are [[ItsHardSoItSucks put off by the intense difficulty]] that borders on [[LuckBasedMission requiring sheer luck]] and excessive amounts of preparation at times.
* BaseBreakingCharacter: Lucifer's been called a heroic revolutionary, a despicable SocialDarwinist, and everything in between. A common debate among fans is whether he's actually morally better than YHVH or if he's just better at selling his pitch; he is the [[ConsummateLiar Father of Lies]], after all. YHVH, on the other hand, is LoveToHate at best and TheScrappy at worst.
* BrokenBase:
** Alignments. Game of choice. There's a ''lot'' to argue over.
** There are quite a lot of arguments over the alignments as a whole, but Law stands outs. Either it's a LawfulNeutral faction that, despite it's flaws, [[WellIntentionedExtremist means well for humanity]], and it's collectivist beliefs in the face of soul-corrupting demons as a NecessaryEvil... or it's a brutal, tyrannical, fascist nightmare, determing to rape the freedom of humanity into [[TheEvilsOfFreeWill mindless submission to YHVH]], and [[YouBastard you should feel bad if you side with it.]] Trust me when I say that there is NO middle-ground. So yeah... support [[VideoGame/ShinMegamiTenseiI Yoshio]], [[VideoGame/ShinMegamiTenseiII Zayin]], [[VideoGame/ShinMegamiTenseiStrangeJourney Zelenin]] and [[VideoGame/ShinMegamiTenseiIV Jonathan]] ''[[InternetBackdraft at your own risk.]]''
** The ''Persona'' sub-series. Many of its fans are unaware of the main series, and some of the few that do bash the games for not being more like Persona, much to the [[ItsPopularNowItSucks ire of the main series fans]]. There are some people that even love the games but still hate the fact that they've vastly overshadowed the other sub-franchises in popularity. An excellent way to start a fight is to discuss the topic of whether or not said popularity has influenced other branches of the franchise, most commonly ''VideoGame/ShinMegamiTenseiIVApocalypse'' and the ''Videogame/DevilSurvivor'' duology, and whether this is a bad thing or not.
** The way fusion is handled in ''VideoGame/DevilSurvivor'', ''VideoGame/DevilSurvivor2'', ''VideoGame/{{Persona 4}} Golden'', and ''VideoGame/ShinMegamiTenseiIV''. Some complain that part of the fun of fusion is unpredictable RNG result and that being able to choose exactly which skills to pass on to the fusion result makes for a boring and excessively forgiving gameplay experience. Others see it as a great AntiFrustrationFeature and point out that in practice, random skill inheritance boils down to tediously rerolling fusions over and over just to get the skills the player wants.
** Whether the newer games are getting [[ItsEasySoItSucks too easy]] or are [[AntiFrustrationFeatures great for introducing new players to the franchise]].
** ''VideoGame/TokyoMirageSessionsFE'', and let's just leave it at that.
** Whether or not the quality of the games in the series Atlus has put out ever since Cozy Okada left[[note]]His last game with the company was ''VideoGame/ShinMegamiTenseiIIINocturne''.[[/note]] are up to snuff to the series standard or if the series is able to handle itself even without him. The seemingly shrinking involvement of Kazuma Kaneko[[note]]He did the first draft for ''VideoGame/ShinMegamiTenseiIV'' along with other misc. things and had no involvement at all with ''VideoGame/ShinMegamiTenseiIVApocalypse''.[[/note]] has only added more fuel to the discussion.
** The general quality of the localization's done by Atlus USA in recent years has become something of a topic of discussion. This has been primarily a result of numerous cases CutAndPasteTranslation, poor text formatting or outright untranslated text being left in the English versions. ''VideoGame/ShinMegamiTenseiIVApocalypse'' and ''VideoGame/{{Persona 5}}'' are commonly used as examples of this.
* CashCowFranchise: The Persona Spinoffs, more specifically ''VideoGame/{{Persona 3}}'' and ''VideoGame/{{Persona 4}}'' have become some of Atlus' most popular properties. They got so popular they even started to drop the "Shin Megami Tensei" label.
* CompleteMonster: See [[Monster/ShinMegamiTensei here]].
* CrackPairing: Mara and Arioch, due to the former being a [[GagPenis giant penis]] demon and the latter having what's basically a [[VaginaDentata huge vagina with teeth]].
* CreatorWorship: The series' creator and first director, Kouji "Cozy" Okada, and its iconic artist, Kazuma Kaneko, get this. Some fans even feel that later games following Okada's departure from Atlus and Kaneko reducing his involvement [[OnlyTheCreatorDoesItRight simply aren't the same]].
* CrossesTheLineTwice: Many things, but Mara stands out. A GagPenis in a golden chariot is one thing. However, the games have made a habit of spewing out puns whenever Mara's around. And then there are the times where Mara's ''stats'' contain puns...
* CultClassic: [[AmericansHateTingle Outside of Japan]], the non-''Persona'' games tend to be this. They may not have the explosive worldwide popularity of ''Persona 3'', ''4'', and their spinoffs, but they still have their share of dedicated fans.
* DarknessInducedAudienceApathy: Oddly enough, inverted. Many fans take issue if a SMT game isn't dark enough, they lose interest. The threshold for TastesLikeDiabetes can be fairly low.
* DracoInLeatherPants: A lot of players advocate for Chaos as the ''good'' ideology. Let's review: in nearly all mainline games save for II and Nocturne, Chaos' objective is to bring about either a SocialDarwinist hell where the strong brutalize the weak, or [[ApocalypseHow Multiversal Metaphysical Annihilation]]. While Law's responsible for some undisputedly nasty things, that doesn't mean that Chaos isn't equally nightmarish.
* DrinkingGame: [[DrinkingGame/ShinMegamiTensei here]]. This being a NintendoHard franchise, prepare to drink ''a lot.''
* EnsembleDarkhorse: Black Frost. He's an [[DiscOneNuke excellent early/mid-game demon/Persona]], and is a [[spoiler: party leader in some routes of ''Devil Survivor''.]]
** Mara, aside form the Jacks, might be the most popular demon in the franchise due to... [[GagPenis you]] [[StealthPun know]].
** Matador, as a result of ''Nocturne'''s rerelease, went from an average Fiend to one of the most infamous bosses in any Atlus game. There's a [[WakeUpCallBoss VERY good reason]] he's the picture of Atlus's That One Boss page.
** In the Japanese fandom, Alice and Moh Shuvuu appears to have quite the following as well.
* FandomHeresy: This is how fans view the individual alignments: "Chaos = total freedom ([[DracoInLeatherPants never mind its drawbacks]]), Neutral = a balance between freedom and a sense of order, Law = horrible iron-fist theocratic dictatorship with no redeeming qualities and you should feel bad if you side with it." The merits of Chaos and Neutrality can be debated, but supporting Law will get you mocked.
* FridgeHorror: It's [[WordOfGod been explained]] that God is not the source of all evil in the series, and that something in the Universe is causing God to be Evil. Okay, um, what could be ''so'' ''evil'' that it makes God (y'know, the guy who made ''everything'') evil?
** Even worse. According to UsefulNotes/{{Christianity}}, God's very nature is ''love itself''. What in the name of everything holy could possibly have corrupted ''love incarnate''?
*** Maybe too many people hating and killing in its name? Worse: believing that they do good and what they feel is love? This world runs on GodsNeedPrayerBadly. -> HumansAreBastards.
*** However, this could also be a reflection of exactly ''what's'' wrong with him creating KnightTemplar Angels as well. As SMTII makes it clear that the Archangels own psychotic belief can give rise to a [[ClapYourHandsIfYouBelieve fake YHVH]]. If their own belief can create a fake one, then doesn't it stand to reason that angels in general can make God fit their view of their creator?
* GameBreaker: Has [[http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/GameBreaker/ShinMegamiTensei its own page]].
* HoYay: Meet ''Persona''. Meet ''Nocturne''. If it's [=MegaTen=], there's porn of it. Usually in this variety.
* ItWasHisSled: If a game lets you fight YHVH and defeat Him, it's a safe bet that it'll be one of the most well-known twists of the game. Most notably, ''VideoGame/ShinMegamiTenseiIVApocalypse'' uses His return as a ''selling point''.
* ItsHardSoItSucks: A complaint from a lot of JRPG enthusiasts, particularly that the difficulty is [[FakeDifficulty not particularly well-designed]] or [[LuckBasedMission dependent on player skill]].
* ItsPopularNowItSucks: ''Persona'' gets this treatment by longstanding fans of the main series, as do installments of other sub-series, most commonly ''Videogame/DevilSurvivor2'' and ''Videogame/ShinMegamiTenseiIVApocalypse'', which these fans see as including ''Persona''-esque elements to boost sales to the detriment of the game's overall quality.
* LoveToHate:
** One of the highlights for many players in some of the games, especially ''II'' and ''IV: Apocalypse'', is being able to challenge [[spoiler:{{God}} and [[RageAgainstTheHeavens kill]] [[DidYouJustPunchOutCthulhu Him]]]].
** For that matter, this is how the fandom sees Law factions and representatives, at best; being able to rip the big four Archangels a new one is part of the appeal for many fans. At worst, said Law followers are collective [[TheScrappy Scrappies]].
** The ''raison d' être'' of most of the series' [[HumansAreTheRealMonsters human villains]], simply because the great figures of myth [[EvilIsCool are too cool to properly hate]].
* MemeticMutation:
** Rated M for Mara[[labelnote:Explanation]]Games featuring the GagPenis demon Mara tend to receive an automatic ESRB "M" (Mature) rating when exported to North America, even if the rest of the game content only warrants a "T" (Teen) rating. For example, ''VideoGame/DevilSurvivor'' and ''VideoGame/DevilSurvivor2'' feature characters getting killed on-screen with pools of blood, or being murdered in other brutal ways, like getting blown up or knocked down a flight of stairs, but Mara is not present. Both games are rated "T". ''VideoGame/PersonaQShadowOfTheLabyrinth'' features a SuperDeformed visual style and your typical dungeon crawler fare, and features Mara. It is rated "M".[[/labelnote]]
** [[NintendoHard SMT Bullshit]][[labelnote:Explanation]]A phrase coined by the Let's Player LetsPlay/{{Sirlionhart}} regarding the games' often unforgiving difficulty often leading to moments that can leave the player (as he described it) "salty".[[/labelnote]]
** Kaneko in his field of flowers.[[labelnote:Explanation]]As a result of Kaneko's seemingly shrinking involvement in the series, it leads to a lot of people giving the answer when asked where he has gone of to that he is now spending time in his flower-field that was shown in the ''Persona 2'' guide book. A variation of the meme is that he instead is locked in Atlus' secret bunker, only allowed out to smoke once a year.[[/labelnote]]
* MemeticMolester: Mara, due to being a [[GagPenis penis]] demon that spits out {{Double Entendre}}s as {{Pre Asskicking One Liner}}s.
* MorePopularSpinOff:
** ''Persona'', [[CashCowFranchise natch]].
** The video game series as a whole is much more popular than the original ''Literature/DigitalDevilStory'' that the series initially used as source material.
* MyRealDaddy: Kazuma Kaneko and his artwork. The series just wouldn't have been the same without it. The series actually received some fire for the announcement that Masayuki Doi, who has done art/coloring/other work for Atlus games would be doing character art. Several Sentai plus other artists would be doing new demon art for ''Videogame/ShinMegamiTenseiIV''.
* MST3KMantra: Satan is based on the Jewish view of Satan, the QuirkyMinibossSquad has the Catholic Raphael and non-canonical Uriel, and [[spoiler:only a few people will be allowed into the Millennium Kingdom]] in ShinMegamiTenseiII, which mirrors (the Hollywood version of) Jehovah's Witness teachings and those of far-right American Protestants. Thor, Mikazuchi, and various other thunder gods [[AllMythsAreTrue co-exist]] and move on.
* ParanoiaFuel: An integral part of many of the ''VideoGame/{{Persona}}'' games.
* TheScrappy: General consensus is that while Chaos is a radical philosophy that has a number of nasty problems, with its representatives being [[BaseBreakingCharacter Base-Breaking Characters]] at worst, Law is just straight-up ''bad''. You'll see a lot of people rooting for Neutral and Chaos, and rarely anyone who likes Law. This extends to their supporters; the Messians in ''VideoGame/ShinMegamiTenseiI'' and ''[[VideoGame/ShinMegamiTenseiII II]]'', Hikawa from ''VideoGame/ShinMegamiTenseiIIINocturne'', [[spoiler:Zelenin and the Three Wise Men]] in ''VideoGame/ShinMegamiTenseiStrangeJourney'', and Jonathan and [[spoiler:Merkabah]] in ''VideoGame/ShinMegamiTenseiIV''. [[InternetBackdraft Support these individuals at your own peril.]]
** It's gotten to the point where Atlus seems to know, as ''Strange Journey'' gives us [[spoiler:Mastema]], a Law representative who's revealed to be so utterly evil on the Chaos route there's no way it was unintentional. Though [[TookALevelInKindness he did clean up his act next game...]]
** ''VideoGame/DevilSurvivor'' is a special case, because Amane is well-liked and the Law route is generally quite a bit nicer than in other games. Most people still think God's a dick regardless, though some ''may'' concede that he's not ''as much'' of one this time.
* SequelDisplacement: The series is called Shin Megami Tensei, ignoring the first two games (Digital Devil Story: Megami Tensei and Digital Devil Story: Megami Tensei II).
** Before ShinMegamiTensei, there were two games for the Famicom called Megami Tensei (the first was adapted from the first novel of the ''Literature/DigitalDevilStory'' series of novels). Few outside of Japan have heard of them, and even in Japan the number of gamers who came of age during the 90s and 00s who've actually played those games (or read the novel) are increasingly few in number.
** ''VideoGame/ShinMegamiTenseiIIINocturne'' was not the first game released with the ''Shin Megami Tensei'' supertitle in the west. The largely forgotten Demi Kids games also had it (in small text) and predate Nocturne's release in the west by a year.
* StopHavingFunGuy:
** This being a NintendoHard franchise, there are many players who, while being experienced and proficient with the series, fail to see why the games are so hard and dismiss anyone complaining about ''x'' [[ThatOneBoss boss]] or ''y'' [[ThatOneLevel dungeon]] to be an idiot.
** In games that have an easy difficulty, playing on those easy modes is a FandomBerserkButton, and is often met with responses along the lines of "Atlus games are supposed to be unfair!" Never mind that easy modes are ''entirely optional''.
* ThatOneAttack:
** Any spell with the "Megido-" prefix. It must mean [[NintendoHard "fuck your life"]] in some other language. This goes double for other Almighty attacks. The Megido are the main line for Almighty spells, but there are others that tend to have nasty side effects like causing Debilitate (reduce Attack, Defense, Accuracy and Evasion).
** ''Devil Survivor'' takes it UpToEleven by adding the -dyne suffix. As if Megidolaon wasn't bad enough, [[spoiler: BonusBoss Lucifer]] can drop Megidoladyne on the ''entire map''. And it gets 50% more powerful with each hit, effectively making the fight a timed battle because it's Almighty and can't be blocked, so even with maxed magic and vitality it'll eventually do more damage than you've got hp.
*** Then others like Strange Journey throws fuel on the fire by planting new spells in that are of the same type. Thought Megidolaon was awesome? Add in Big Bang which is even more powerful by a good 200 points. Then we have Babylon Goblet which has a chance to charm. Good luck recovering from that. And god forbid you get the eponymous JIHAD because not only is it one of the strongest spells in the game, but it also LOWERS THEIR STATS TOO. But to be fair while you have those, you can bet your opponent has even better shit than you.
** Three games to date -- ''Strange Journey'', ''IV'', and ''IV: Apocalypse'' -- have Macca Beam, which takes away 20% of your Macca, and Wastrel Beam, which takes away ''50%''. Hope you didn't have a lot of Macca saved up at the time. And no, [[SecretAIMoves the player-controlled versions of the demons that use these moves don't have either attack]].
** In games with the Press Turn system, many enemies, [[SecretAIMoves and enemies only]], have moves that grant them additional half-turns, such as Beast Eye and Dragon Eye in ''III'' and Psycho-Rage in ''Digital Devil Saga'', making one enemy feel like several. ''IV'' lets you get Guardian's Eye, but it requires defeating the hardest DLC boss in the game and it costs an outrageous ''255 MP''.
* ThatOneBoss: [[WakeUpCallBoss Matador]] and Mot in Nocturne, the golden metal trio in ''VideoGame/{{Persona 2}}'', Intrepid Knight in ''VideoGame/{{Persona 3}}'', anyone in ''VideoGame/DigitalDevilSaga'' with the second boss theme and probably a few more. Of course, if you don't use all of the options that are available to you like ailment inducing ammo, buff and debuff skills, buff and debuff cancelling skill, healing skills, elemental and ailments immunity to at least some of the bosses attacks, then expect lot of bosses to suddenly turn into NintendoHard ThatOneBoss. You know what, let's just tell you we have [[ThatOneBoss/{{Atlus}} ThatOneBoss/Atlus]] (where Shin Megami Tensei makes up most of the article) and leave it at that.
* UncannyValley: Part of the series' aesthetic. While it remains distinctly {{manga}}, the characters tend to share the same grayish skin color and nearly all share the distinctive eye design.
** This was noticeably absent in VideoGame/DevilSurvivor and the later installments of the Persona series, both of which used a more manga, cartoony style, that severely contrasted with all the NightmareFuel of the game.
*** Both of those series had different character designers for the human characters, while keeping Kazuma Kaneko's demon/persona designs. Kaneko is responsible for the human character designs in all the main series Shin Megami Tensei games except [[VideoGame/ShinMegamiTenseiIV IV]], as well as DDS and the Raidou games.
* UglyCute: Some of the demons that aren't [[OurMonstersAreDifferent mind-bogglingly strange]] or {{Stripperific}} demon babes could arguably qualify. Decarabia is one such example.
* ValuesDissonance: The ratings for each game vary greatly by the region. ''Nocturne'' (''[[MarketBasedTitle Lucifers Call]]'') and vanilla ''Persona 3'' have significant gaps between the PEGI (12+ ) and ESRB (17+ ) rating alone.
** ''Nocturne'' even got an A in Japan, which basically means suitable for everyone. Note that this game is considerably more difficult than the already difficult ''VideoGame/DigitalDevilSaga'' and ''Persona'' sub-series, you get turned into a demon by having a snake-like parasite get ''dropped into your eye'' '''in first-person perspective''' and [[spoiler: you can become the literal [[TheAntiChrist anti-Christ]] as you ''become the new General for the legions of Hell/Darkness to wage war against {{God}}'']].
** Many speculate that the only reason many of the games--even the less violent ones such as ''VideoGame/{{Persona 3}}'' and ''[[VideoGame/{{Persona 4}} 4]]''--have M-ratings in the United States is because of [[GagPenis Mara]], who is absent in ''VideoGame/DevilSurvivor'' games, one of the few series in the franchise to carry a T-rating despite showing several graphic on-screen deaths.
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