YMMV / Etrian Odyssey

  • Alternate Character Interpretation: Olympia: Well-Intentioned Extremist doing what she must to protect the Deep City's secrets, or did she enjoy leading hapless, trusting explorers to their deaths?
  • Angst? What Angst?: Present in The Millennium Girl quite a bit.
    • Frederica is from the distant past and left behind her family, everyone she knew, and all of the customs she was familiar with. This is mostly glossed over in favor of her being upset over having amnesia, a sub-plot which is resolved fairly quickly...only to replace it with the far more serious issue of Gungnir and the consequences of its use...
    • Arthur and Simon hail from a mining town called Gotham and were almost killed by Gungnir's activation when younger. Despite that fact, they remains cheerful most of the time (save, obviously, when the issue of firing Etria's Gungnir pops up, when M.I.K.E. and Frederica know full well it will kill everyone in Etria), and the only kind of problem Arthur seems to have developed from it is a fear of darkness... which is only brought up in an optional and missable scene.
    • As the party enters the Sandy Barrens to fight and kill the infected members of the Forest Folk, Raquna feels exceptionally down about the idea of having to carry out these executions. No talk is made of it in the aftermath of the ensuing battles.
    • It's the end of the game. Several Forest Folk have been killed, the leader of Etria is dead, M.I.K.E. went rogue and had to be terminated, Kupala gave up her life, and Etria may become a ghost town now that the Labyrinth has been (near) fully explored. Well, see you next time! We're going to report to the Midgard Library!
  • Anti-Climax Boss: The Yggdrasil Core in Untold. It's markedly tougher in the first phase, but thanks to the virus, it actually doesn't have much more HP than your standard endgame F.O.E. and its attacks are easily handled with regular healing. Thanks to Kupala's Heroic Sacrifice, you'll deal boatloads of damage in the second phase, and while Necrosis is something to watch out for, the first time it's used is liable to fail across the board. Keep up the pressure and it won't have the chance to use it again.
    • The final boss of Mystery Dungeon, Dread Muspell. Her main body doesn't even do anything until you deal a lot of damage to her, and even then, her damage output and that of her minions is weak. She does have a mass confusion attack and the ability to summon a D.O.E., but for the former, several classes have abilities that can easily remedy this, and the latter move takes a long time to charge.
    • Sky Kaiser, the boss of the 10th Branch dungeon, also qualifies considering you have to beat the three elemental dragons to get to it (and the Blizzard King is That One Boss). Even though it can deal massive untyped Area of Effect damage with Deafening Roar, it will likely only uses this attack once, if at all, since it can only use two of that move and its more common random status spreader (which may even grant status buffs) before its depleted of amber and must generate more (easily destroyed) pieces to restore its condition. Its only other damaging move is its physical attack, so if your party can survive Deafening Roar, it essentially becomes a giant punching bag.
  • Audience-Alienating Premise: Etrian Odyssey Untold: The Millenium Girl was hit with this since it was announced. Why? Well, take a franchise that's beloved by fans for the ability to create your own completely customizable party and interpret what the world is like for yourself, then make a game with an actual story mode with pre-existing characters, and you can see why people were skeptical. Sure, you could still create your own party in Classic Mode, but then you lose out on all the new content, including the Gunner and Highlander classes and the second dungeon.
  • Awesome Moments: F.O.E.'s are not entirely immune to the instant-kill aspect of skills Head Pierce. Taking one down in one shot is very satisfying.
    • On a more general level, killing your first F.O.E. in any of the games.
    • The battle with the Demi-Fafnir in The Fafnir Knight's Story Mode. You begin the battle with the protagonist in his newly acquired Black Guardian transformation.
    • The final battle of The Fafnir Knight's Story Mode. The party has just beaten the Yggdrasil Core, but it reawakens and blows the party away. The protagonist has one last resort - the Holy Grail - and uses it to gain immense power, enough to curb stomp the Core alone.
  • Awesome Music: This series has a whole page dedicated to awesome songs from this series.
  • Base-Breaking Character: Arianna from The Fafnir Knight. Is she a kind-hearted heroine that, despite being an airhead, is a nice reprise from the dark things that happen in the story? Or is she an idiot that has no idea what she's doing and ruins serious moments with her inability to grasp situations the party ends up in? The fact that the game's artbook says she was created to be the opposite of the fairly popular Fredericka isn't helping her.
  • Big Lipped Alligator Moment: The "Etrian Nightmare"/Hurt Babirusa in The Fafnir Knight. It shows up out of nowhere, the party (in Story, anyway) makes a comment on it, then they fight. After the battle, there's no dialogue and the party just acts like it didn't happen.
  • Breather Boss:
    • Gimle in The Millennium Girl. It's insanely bulky, but it isn't a threat at all when you consider that you just got past the Iwaoropenelep. Doubly so if you have Peace Ballad, as it removes any need for even TP restoring items.
    • Demi-Fafnir in The Fafnir Knight, particularly in Classic mode. After the one-two punch of Guild Esbat and Scylla, he's a step down, lacking any of the major heavy-hitting moves that the above threw at you. In Story Mode, this is slightly counterbalanced by the fact that you're missing one of your party for the fight (specifically, Bertrand, due to him kinda becoming the Demi-Fafnir). Classic Mode, however, places no such restrictions on you.
  • Broken Base: Etrian Odyssey IV caused a rift between fans at one point, especially with Casual Mode.
    • The Millennium Girl brought in all sorts of disagreements within the fanbase, ranging from the new Story Mode and the main characters, to Grimoire Stones (until the second Untold game, anyway) and the floor jump feature.
    • Downloadable Content in The Fafnir Knight. There are there who are more than willing to purchase the additional features, and others who are accusing Atlus of implementing microtransactions when QR codes (as done in the fourth game) would've accomplished the same thing.
      • To add insult to injury, they are releasing QR codes for it...if you pre-order the game in North America. And even then, it's just grimoires that serve to make the game easier.
      • There was particular ire with one item of DLC unlocking nude portraits for Story Mode's two female characters, especially considering that one of the characters is twelve.
    • Etrian Mystery Dungeon. Is it an interesting take on the franchise and a solid roguelike? Or is it a mistake of a game that got the series' core concepts wrong and traded in the series' legitimate difficulty for a lot of Fake Difficulty and cheap shots?
      • The game's announcement alone was aggravating for some—not so much because of the game itself, but because of the timing. The game was announced about a week after the Japanese release of The Fafnir Knight, while there was still no word on localization for the latter. To add insult to injury, Mystery Dungeon got a localization announcement within a week of the Japanese announcement, while a localization announcement didn't come for The Fafnir Knight for another two months. And this is to say nothing of Europe's problems with Atlus localizations.
  • Critical Research Failure: The Furyhorn in The Fafnir Knight neighs like a horse when encountered.
  • Demonic Spiders: Petaloids their variants in Etrian Odyssey loved nothing more than to chain-sleep your entire party, thus allowing the other enemies to unleash a world of hurt on you. They appear in Legends of the Titan as well, although thankfully they'll only target one party member... unless you damage them.
    • Also from Legends of the Titan, its cousins in the final dungeon can petrify your entire party with one move. While they only target one member of your party until they take damage, they're occasionally paired with an enemy (a Hollow, no less) that can deal that one point of damage to get a power boost.
    • The Bloodant FOEs in Etrian Odyssey. The first time you encounter them on B12F, they don't hit very hard, but have a lot of HP. Plus, they have infinite regeneration and the ability to summon both Bloodants and Deathants. To top it off, with the battle against the Royalant, they'll continually spawn in a corner of the room and rush towards the battle. Enjoy a main dish of Royalant, a side order of Bloodants with a generous helping of Deathants with your-ass-getting-kicked sauce. Thankfully, they are much easier in the remake.
      • In general, there is at least one type of enemy on each stratum in every game that could qualify as one. In particular, the final strata have plenty of enemies that can get very dangerous unless handled right. The Drowned City has the Longicorn Beta on the final floor that can summon multiple enemies at any time, and then throws them for high damage to the entire party. It's also highly durable, which makes it difficult to shut it down with statuses long enough or kill fast enough to stop it from throwing enemies.
    • Across various games, there are also monsters that are otherwise weak, but they qualify as Demonic Spiders because if you don't kill them fast enough, they will summon or transform to F.O.E.-type monsters. A really nasty surprise if you don't expect it.
    • And in Legends of the Titan, the Hollows are meant to be a crash course in utilizing Bindings, and it shows. Even the weakest Hollow type has evasion that's through the roof, so unless you have a Sniper or Arcanist in your party, just hitting one can be a Luck-Based Mission!
    • Iron Crabs are found on the final floor of the bonus stratum in The Millennium Girl. They are docile, resistant to most forms of attack, but if you kill any of its allies it will turn aggressive and spam Scissor Wrath which can destroy even the strongest of parties. The game loves to pair them up with other deadly encounters like Red Corpuscles that with an instant death attack, but worst of all is when it gets paired with Evilroots which take the time to charge a very accurate party-wide instant death attack. You either kill the Evilroots and die to Scissor Wrath, or you kill the Iron Crabs (or fail to run away) and die to Last Cry... note 
  • Ear Worm: F.O.E.! F.O.E.!
  • Ensemble Darkhorse: Shilleka from Etrian Odyssey, for exposing a lot of skin.
    • Arthur from The Millennium Girl receives a lot of attention from fans due to being rather comical.
  • Esoteric Happy Ending: The first game. Hooray! You've defeated Visil and uncovered the truth! Too bad it involved killing the guy who probably saved the world and likely plunging Etria into an economic disaster. This gets fixed in the remake.
  • Fanon: Outside of bits of story and the Untold games' story modes, this is literally encouraged by the developers! As explained on the first game's website (Director's Diary, entry 5), one of the major elements the games take from "old-school" dungeon crawlers is that the party is meant to be defined largely in the imagination of the player. How they react in detail to what's going on, what they adventure like, how they interact with one another, is meant to be up to the player to define. This is why the games only ever describe your actions in the broadest of terms - they want to encourage you to invent your own interpretation and "canon" for what your characters do and say. This is also why the Story Mode of the Untold games has proven divisive: having five pre-defined characters, as opposed to the party that lives in the mind of the player, seems to many to go against the wider spirit of the franchise.
  • Even Better Sequel: The Fafnir Knight in comparison to The Millennium Girl. It boasts a better storyline and features 15 classes to use. The Story Mode characters and NPCs are also given more conversational lines than before, the restaurant management is an improved version of the Guildkeeper's enhancement system from EOU, Grimoires have been improved to be easier to acquire and actually show what skills you get mid-battle, the new Story Mode dungeon is available in Classic Mode, among other various and well-received changes.
  • Funny Moments: Has a page here.
  • Game Breaker: Has a page here.
  • Germans Love David Hasselhoff: The Fafnir Knight is generally considered one of the weaker games in the series in Japan, due to the many balancing issues, an average plot that contradicts itself at times, the HP stats of enemies being through the roof, and paid DLC. In the US, it's considered one of - if not the - best games in the series in spite of its flaws.
  • Goddamned Bats: In Etrian Mystery Dungeon, one of the labyrinths features an owl monster which loves to spam mind-control spells at you. When controlled the first thing any character tends to do is unequip all of their gear and start chucking it in every direction. Oh yeah, and this particular dungeon doesn't have walls; the playable area is on raised platforms above a deep pit, and if your tossed gear happens to land "out of bounds" it is instantaneously and permanently destroyed and gone forever, even if it was rare or unique. Fortunately the owls are also fairly weak and easy to kill, and the control effect can be undone by a medic, but still one unlucky incident could mean the permanent loss of a piece of gear that you can literally only get one of in the game.
  • Good Bad Bugs:
    • You can skip Fenrir in the first game by exploiting the fact that FOEs maintain aggro even with a wall between you to lure him into a corridor so you can run past him. While you can't go far on the 6th floor without going back and killing him (as you need to report Fenrir's death to do so), it does allow you to warp to town, save, and fight stronger monsters for better gear and get a free turn on Fenrir by attacking him from behind, as well as open some new quests. This is all very helpful, as Fenrir is an Early Bird Boss.
    • The Medic's Immunize skill in the same game. It was intended to reduce only elemental damage, according to the in-game description. However, the different physical attack types (Pierce, Slash, and Bash) were considered element types as well, turning it into a well-known Game Breaker. It was cut in Heroes of Lagaard, then made its reappearance The Millennium Girl after it was fixed.
    • 1st Turn and Slowstep in Heroes of Lagaard are supposed to have chances of failure which decrease with investment up until Level 8, but a bug skips the check for failure, so these skills are always effective (and far more efficient due to their low TP cost) at Level 1.
    • In The Drowned City, while the Monk's Fist skills require you to fight unarmed, for some odd reason, the second slot counts as a Weapon. If your first Armor Slot is blank, a Monk can use his/her fist skills with a Mace, even though he/she doesn't have the Shogun's Second Sword class skill. Whoops.
    • In Legends of the Titan, "Auto" skills activate at the beginning of a battle, giving you a buff immediately without costing a turn. However, since the non-"Auto" variants of the buff do cost a turn, they actually last one turn less than their "Auto" variants (because it activated on the middle of your turn, and once the turn ends the buff's duration ticks down one turn). Especially useful with "Auto-Throw", which usually just lasts for one Throw skill, but when activated via Auto-Throw can be used twice. And seeing as mentioned above that Venom Throw is one massive Game Breaker on its own...
      • This quirk was preserved in The Fafnir Knight, and is most noticeable with the Ronin's Stances, Troubadour's Songs, and Hexer's debuffs, as their Force Boosts prevent turn count depletion.
    • There are two notable and extremely useful glitches in The Millennium Girl; one allows infinite replication of any item that can be used in battle, while the other lets you pass down a large number of skill slots from a grimoire in synthesis without actually consuming it.
    • In Mystery Dungeon, the Sovereign's "Arms" skills makes an ally's attack become a certain element, adds resistance to that element, and raises STR by 3 when applied. All well and good...except you can apply the STR bonus multiple times, and when it wears off, only 3 STR is lost, meaning that you can get at least 3 net STR.
    • In The Fafnir Knight, the War Magus' "War Edge Mastery" skill lets them use their sword skills while equipped with a staff. The bug/added feature is, if they have sword skill grimoires from Landsknechts or Dark Hunters, it lets them use those skills with a staff as well.
  • Harsher in Hindsight: When Erik asks you what to write to his penpal in The Drowned City, one choice is to talk about flowers. Her homeland is being destroyed by them.
  • Heartwarming Moments: The video that plays when the Story Mode group in The Millennium Girl reaches the 5th strata. Frederica begins to feel very depressed at the sight when the Highlander simply takes her hand.
  • Hell Is That Noise:
    • In the 3DS titles, a simple "ding!" sound plays whenever a FOE takes notice of you and starts actively chasing you down. A simple little thing, but you'll quickly learn to dread that sound, especially if you're a veteran to the series.
    • The Hazardous Petal FOEs on 29F in The Fafnir Knight are pretty well hidden in patches of flowers. Your first indication that you're near one is the standard "ding!" sound mentioned above in a seemingly empty room. Your second is an awful screaming noise when you (likely accidentally) run into one.
  • Hilarious in Hindsight: Atlus's other first person Dungeon Crawler series would borrow the first game's big twist in Shin Megami Tensei IV.
  • It's Easy, so It Sucks: Part of the problem veterans have with The Fafnir Knight is that the difficulty is toned down compared to previous entries, even on the hardest difficulty. Boss fights in particular feel less like a challenge and more like a slog, due to everything being a Damage Sponge.
  • Moe: Present throughout the series, but the female Yggdroids from The Drowned City take the cake. The males look like you'd expect humanoid robots to look, but the females really had moe shoehorned onto them. They're tiny, have human faces and look like they would break if you looked at them too hard. Any why would robots need to wear glasses?
    • Abigail from Heroes of Lagaard and Missy from The Drowned City also count.
  • Moral Event Horizon: In The Drowned City, not only does Olympia betray the party after pretending to guide them and leave them to die against seemingly impossible odds multiple times, its heavily implied that she similarly led countless other explorers to their deaths, possibly even murdering them herself, thanks to her orders to keep explorers from discovering the Deep City at any cost.
  • Narm: In Story Mode of The Fafnir Knight, suffering a Total Party Kill will elicit some sort of last words from one of your group, most of which are fairly tearjerking - except for Fafnir himself, who lets out a yell that sounds more annoyed than anything. This also happens in The Millenium Girl.
  • Player Punch: Early in The Drowned City, a quest becomes available to locate a camping-obsessed guild that has been missing in the labyrinth for several days. Following the clues they leave from campsite to campsite, the last you stumble on is described as a scene of carnage (blood everywhere, tattered and broken equipment and whatnot); naturally, you believe they were all killed by monsters. Subverted when you go to report the quest at the pub, as Missy almost flat-out tells you that the guild members are freakin' fine, and that all the blood at the campsite was from the monsters that interrupted their beauty sleep.
    • Played straight later (maybe, the game never explicitly says that either character is dead: If you agreed to help Hypatia and Agata enter the second stratum, then you eventually find them there, and Agata presses you to tell him the location of a nest of Sea Wanderers you found earlier while Hypatia begs you not to, as she already had a traumatizing encounter with them before. You just decide whether to tell him or not and think nothing of it when he runs off to find them. Then you decide to follow him, and go to the room and find one of the two either dead or unconscious while the other is cradling their body. There is no way to avoid this happening, as saying "Yes" or "No" only determines which dies (saying "Yes" means Agata gets hurt, while "No" is for Hypatia). There is no way to back out of this, except for refusing to help them enter the second stratum in the first place. Then you literally never see them again, and you're free to pretend they gave up and went home peacefully if you'd like.
  • Replacement Scrappy: When early info about The Drowned City was released, and fans learned the original classes wouldn't return, Gladiators were blasted as being generic and vastly inferior 'replacements' for the Dark Hunter class, despite players not knowing anything about it beyond the physical appearance of one representative. Thankfully, this reaction died down over time.
    • Even funnier when you finally found out that Gladiator is supposed to replace Landsknecht instead. note 
  • Scrappy Mechanic:
    • While Grimoire Stones in The Millennium Girl offer a lot of flexibility, one big problem with them is that the skills you can obtain in one is random. Creating the ideal stone will likely take a lot of skill point manipulation and praying to the random number gods that the right skills drop quickly. They're still random in The Fafnir Knight but a reworking of the systems around the Grimoire Stones, including the means of influencing the skill you get, means that it's not as annoying.
    • Issuing commands to your party members in Etrian Mystery Dungeon requires you to spend Blast Points to use them. These include orders like scattering or following you, which feel like something that should be issuable at no cost. Given that you use Blast Points for things like your class-specific Limit Breaks as well, it makes the commands costing something even more annoying.
  • Surprisingly Improved Sequel: The remake of the original Etrian Odyssey irritated long time fans, mostly about Story Mode they and its additions to the plot, the bland characters, and features exclusive to it. The next Untold fixed those issues, and overhauled the much derided Grimoire Stone system, leading to declarations that The Fafnir Knight is the best Etrian Odyssey yet.
  • Suspiciously Similar Song: The Super Arrange of the boss theme Their Own Brand of Justice has moments that seem like Far Beyond The Sun and a few other Yngwie Malmsteen songs. A less distinct, but similar part occurs here as well.
  • That One Achievement: Attaining the Seven Kings Grimoire in The Millennium Girl is a Guide Dang It. Nothing in the game clues you in on where and how to get the King Grimoire skills, and even if you do know how note  it takes a significant amount of effort to get everything to line up and for the Grimoire Stone to appear during the battle. Then you need to fuse all of the skills into a single stone that has 7 slots, and again it takes luck to get a 7-slot stone to drop. At least you can attain these skills off other players' Guild Cards, either through Streetpass or QR codes, but the skills generated from Grimoire Stones obtained this way are, again, random.
  • That One Attack:
    • The Yggdrasil Core's Cell Membrane in The Millennium Girl. It prevents any and all damage for a turn and releases a painful party-wide counter in return for getting hit. If you just so happen to have a character that has the Highlander skill that may cause an attack upon being dealt damage, you may go down from a single attack triggering a chain. While it's predictable with a guide that explains the boss' patterns, it will break the pattern if you apply enough buffs, meaning you can die on any turn you choose to attack.
      • That same boss also has Armageddon, which deals massive amounts of damage and is very difficult to survive. The problem is that this happens outside of its designated pattern, triggered only if you happen to have one too many buffs, so your loss can be randomly guaranteed the moment you see it use King's Resolve.
    • In the original Etrian Odyssey, Primevil, had a very accurate version of Necrosis that retained the instant-death status effect effect. Any party that avoided the TPK would lose its momentum, which could be fatal anyway.
    • The Fallen One in Legends of the Titan has Darkness Curse, which can almost completely bind the party while also applying some binds on itself. This conveniently doesn't bind the limbs this boss needs to execute its next attacks, while your party is mostly rendered helpless until they unbind themselves. The skill is very likely to go before anyone else does, and cannot be stopped with any bind. While it is guaranteed to open the battle with this skill, its subsequent uses become less predictable.
  • That One Boss:
    • Iwaopeln in the original Etrian Odyssey. You need to beat every single F.O.E. on the floor to actually kill it on a floor completely filled with them. While it's possible to fight and beat Iwaopeln before nearby F.O.E.s reach you, it just instantly respawns if there's so much as a single one left. He also has a really powerful attack that will kill at least two of your party members if you don't have Immunize. Fortunately, this is not required in the remake, as they disappear as soon as the bird is defeated, although it can use the F.O.Es to assist it in battle, as well as respawning them if it sees you.
    • The Colossus in Heroes of Lagaard was a difficult endgame boss. His appearance in the Updated Re-release The Fafnir Knight, rechristened Juggernaut, is an absolute monster. With a ridiculous 72,000 HP (in comparison, the Final Boss "only" has 27,000 HP) as well as several powerful party-wide physical attacks and status moves, it's received a lot of fury. Even being able to reduce its HP by a third before the fight leaves it with perhaps the highest HP count in the game. While it also throws a massive attack buff at your party (and also on itself) that gives you an opportunity to do ludicrous damage to it, it also permits the boss to use its strongest attack that can quickly cause a Total Party Kill if not dealt with in due time.
    • Artelinde and Der Freischutz in The Fafnir Knight. They wouldn't actually be all that bad under normal circumstances; actually they would be a little weaker than most boss fights since they have very few mass attacks and don't use the ones they have very often. However, when you get one of them to low health they enter Force Mode, just like you can do, and after three turns they use a Force Break skill that kills themselves but is also a guaranteed Total Party Kill unless you use a Beast or Protector's Force Break to absorb it. If you do manage to kill one of them, then the other instantaneously enters Force Mode and does the same thing. So basically there are only three ways to win: 1) have two protectors and/or beasts in your party and pray they're not bound on the turn you need to use them, 2) be so massively overleveled that killing the enemy in three turns is actually physically possible, or 3) do a whole lot of tricky maneuvering to make sure they both use their Force Break at the same time and even then you need at least one beast or protector. ...well, or 4) set the difficulty to Casual.
    • Also from The Fafnir Knight, Harpuia can be seen as Artelinde and Der Freischutz on steroids. She spams more and more severe status effects than Artelinde does, though at least you can mitigate that somewhat with the Wind Guard ability, which you can get as a grimoire from enemies on this stratum. She also hits your entire party like Der Freischutz, but for far more damage a hit. However, she also has FEAST. At first this move doesn't seem so bad... it hits your entire party at random and causes random binds, but it only hits 2-3 times, right? Wrong. It deals more hits each time Harupia uses it, and in a protracted battle, she can easily reach 18 hits with it! Why is it worse? Unlike those two, who telegraph when their attack is coming and K.O. themselves in the process of using it, Harpuia can use Feast without warning and as often as she wants. It does at least do less damage than the other boss's Force Break so you are likely to survive with at least one or two of your party members still alive, but you're still going to lose momentum, and in a game like this that means you'll probably only survive one or two more turns at best.
    • The Hollow Queen in Legends of the Titan, like her minions that are faced in the rest of the dungeon, has an incredibly high dodge rate until you bind her legs to make her a sitting duck. But at the same time, she is a Flunky Boss, summoning other Hollows (which also have similarly high evasion) during the fight that can either harass the party or heal her. Coupled with her hard-hitting attacks, and an unprepared party can be easily decimated. You need to either have a Sniper or an Arcanist in the party to make the fight even possible, but fortunately the first time round, Wufan can be invited to the party to help against the boss.
  • That One Level: B3F of Ginnungagap in The Fafnir Knight. When you enter for the first time, you're forced to undergo a trial to the very end. You are unable to use Ariadne Threads to escape the floor (they'll instead take you to the beginning of the floor), and the the F.O.E. of the floor is utterly relentless, chasing you down and preventing you from escaping if it engages you in a battle note  . Thankfully, saves are disabled, so you can't become permanently stuck in it, but the alternative of losing your progress still stings a lot.
    • B27F and 28F of the original qualify as a collective. The former is filled with invisible pitfalls that drop the party into the latter floor, which is in turn filled with damage tiles and patrolled by some of the fastest FOEs in the game. The remake amps the difficulty - the pitfalls in the former are now visible, but the floor is a Blackout Basement with FOEs that respond to lighting the place up, and the FOEs in the latter move faster and spawn a little more erratically, forcing the player onto the damage tiles to dodge them. Many warp wires were spent to get the whole place mapped out.
    • B29F of the original game and its remake are also contenders, being a tedious warp maze that has the tendency to drop you back at the beginning for taking a wrong turn.
  • That One Sidequest:
    • Heroes of Lagaard: The Beautiful Queen. This is a quest you receive very early on to get a Queen chess piece. It is only by a Chain of Deals that lasts beyond the storyline endboss and well into the Bonus Dungeon that you are finally able to complete it. And it's all for a weapon that is absolutely useless unless you have a Landsknecht, at which point it's probably still useless, though that is slightly more arguable. (It's a weapon only Landsknechts can equip that has the highest attack power in the game, but like every other weapon type in the game, the one with the second-highest attack power comes with side bonuses that end up making it better anyway.)
      • The quest returns in the remake largely unmodified, but since every quest (including the quests unlocked in the chain) reward experience points, some of the frustration associated with this has been alleviated.
    • Early in The Drowned City, the game gives you the 'Fish Festival' sidequest, tasking you with killing 15 different fish enemies (Fanged Fish or Devilfish) on B4F. At the level you're likely to take it, just surviving long enough to encounter 15 fish is tricky, and surviving to kill 50 takes either a lot of planning or a lot of grinding. Not helping matters is the fact that B4F is also swarming with Great Anacondas.
  • They Changed It, Now It Sucks: When the first preview screens of The Drowned City were released, some fans complained about the new seafaring setting and the new roster of character classes, bemoaning the loss of the classes from the first two games.
    • Inverted, come The End of the Long Myth, with its ten entirely new classes met with excitement.
  • The Unreveal: One of the criticisms of the story mode in The Millennium Girl is that it greatly reduces the impact of Lost Shinjuku, with the Earth All Along aspect being spoiled in a much earlier stratum.
  • Viewer Gender Confusion: All classes have four character portraits to choose from. Two are male, and two are female. This is highly important information for the Survivalist, Troubadour, and Hoplite classes in particular, which have some portraits that can only be identified via process of elimination.
  • Woolseyism: Atlus changed the names of the character classes during translation; Landsknechts were originally Swordman, Protectors were Paladins, Survivalists were Rangers, and so on. This may have been done to give the game a more original flair and help it stand out. A later example from The Drowned City is Beast King to Wildling, probably because (like most classes) you can make a female version, and it didn't change the class name like it did for Prince/Princess.
    • For the rest of the classes, it was more than likely to avoid classes having the same first letter in their name as to make it easier for the item shop menu to characterize them. It would have been a little difficult to tell the difference between Princess and Phalanx or Ballista and Beast King (the class names in the Japanese version).
      • The Millennium Girl, with the addition of the Highlander class (not to mention the expanded screen real-estate of the 3DS), had the abbreviation icon as "Hi" in the English version, breaking this pattern. The Fafnir Knight does a similar thing, abbreviating Sovereigns to "So".
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