Follow TV Tropes

Following

History YMMV / DoctorWhoS35E4BeforeTheFlood

Go To

OR

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

* RelationshipWritingFumble: Cass and Lunn spend so much time worrying about each other and making physical contact that the most surprising thing about the reveal they love each other at the end is that we weren't supposed to think they were already in a relationship.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

* HilariousInHindsight: The Doctor teases the audience in the ColdOpen about taking Ludwig van Beethoven's place via time travel. In 2020, Peter Capaldi and Sophie Stone (Cass) acted in the BBC Radio 3 audio drama ''[[https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000mrgn Beethoven Can Hear You]]'', voicing respectively the composer himself and a time traveller from the future who comes to visit him.

Added: 157

Changed: 604

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
We need to stay vague on what those "events later in Series 9" are, because they're future spoilers on a recap page.


* HarsherInHindsight: The Doctor's KirkSummation to the Fisher King, accusing him of breaking the rules of life and death, becomes this after the events of the next episode, "The Girl Who Died" -- in which ''the Doctor'' isn't willing to let innocent Ashildr die and the only way he can save her involves robbing her of ''her'' death. From there, the stage is set for a SeasonFinale in which he undergoes an out-and-out SanitySlippage upon Clara's final death, which temporarily turns him into a WoobieDestroyerOfWorlds who is willing to risk ''the entire universe'' to bring her back from the grave.
* TheUntwist: Because of previous InUniverse fangirl deaths, O'Donnell's death was pretty easy to see coming. The twist is the Doctor's rationale for letting it happen.

to:

* HarsherInHindsight: The Doctor's KirkSummation to the Fisher King, accusing him of breaking the rules of life and death, becomes this after the events of the next episode, "The Girl Who Died" -- later in which ''the Doctor'' isn't willing to let innocent Ashildr die and the only way he can save her involves robbing her of ''her'' death. From there, the stage is set for a SeasonFinale in which he undergoes an out-and-out SanitySlippage upon Clara's final death, which temporarily turns him into a WoobieDestroyerOfWorlds who is willing to risk ''the entire universe'' to bring her back from the grave.
Series 9.
* TheUntwist: TheUntwist:
**
Because of previous InUniverse fangirl deaths, O'Donnell's death was pretty easy to see coming. The twist is the Doctor's rationale for letting it happen.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Internet Backdraft is now Flame Bait and being dewicked per TRS.


* InternetBackdraft: Those opposed to the Doctor-Clara romantic relationship were not happy to see this episode loaded to the gills with ship tease, and were doubly not happy to see the Doctor betray his principles to try and save her (and not for the last time this season, either).
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* HarsherInHindsight: The Doctor's KirkSummation to the Fisher King, accusing him of breaking the rules of life and death, becomes this after the events of the next episode, [[spoiler: "The Girl Who Died" -- in which ''the Doctor'' isn't willing to let innocent Ashildr die and the only way he can save her involves robbing her of ''her'' death. From there, the stage is set for a SeasonFinale in which he undergoes an out-and-out SanitySlippage upon Clara's final death, which temporarily turns him into a WoobieDestroyerOfWorlds who is willing to risk ''the entire universe'' to bring her back from the grave.]]

to:

* HarsherInHindsight: The Doctor's KirkSummation to the Fisher King, accusing him of breaking the rules of life and death, becomes this after the events of the next episode, [[spoiler: "The Girl Who Died" -- in which ''the Doctor'' isn't willing to let innocent Ashildr die and the only way he can save her involves robbing her of ''her'' death. From there, the stage is set for a SeasonFinale in which he undergoes an out-and-out SanitySlippage upon Clara's final death, which temporarily turns him into a WoobieDestroyerOfWorlds who is willing to risk ''the entire universe'' to bring her back from the grave.]]
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

** The Doctor's survival was obviously a foregone conclusion.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* HarsherInHindsight: The Doctor's KirkSummation to the Fisher King, accusing him of breaking the rules of life and death, becomes this after the events of the next episode, [{spoiler: "The Girl Who Died" -- in which ''the Doctor'' isn't willing to let innocent Ashildr die and the only way he can save her involves robbing her of ''her'' death. From there, the stage is set for a SeasonFinale in which he undergoes an out-and-out SanitySlippage upon Clara's final death, which temporarily turns him into a WoobieDestroyerOfWorlds who is willing to risk ''the entire universe'' to bring her back from the grave.]]

to:

* HarsherInHindsight: The Doctor's KirkSummation to the Fisher King, accusing him of breaking the rules of life and death, becomes this after the events of the next episode, [{spoiler: [[spoiler: "The Girl Who Died" -- in which ''the Doctor'' isn't willing to let innocent Ashildr die and the only way he can save her involves robbing her of ''her'' death. From there, the stage is set for a SeasonFinale in which he undergoes an out-and-out SanitySlippage upon Clara's final death, which temporarily turns him into a WoobieDestroyerOfWorlds who is willing to risk ''the entire universe'' to bring her back from the grave.]]
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* HarsherInHindsight: The Doctor's KirkSummation to the Fisher King, accusing him of breaking the rules of life and death, becomes this after the events of the next episode, "The Girl Who Died" -- in which ''the Doctor'' isn't willing to let innocent Ashildr die and the only way he can save her involves robbing her of ''her'' death. From there, the stage is set for a SeasonFinale in which he undergoes an out-and-out SanitySlippage upon Clara's final death, which temporarily turns him into a WoobieDestroyerOfWorlds who is willing to risk ''the entire universe'' to bring her back from the grave.

to:

* HarsherInHindsight: The Doctor's KirkSummation to the Fisher King, accusing him of breaking the rules of life and death, becomes this after the events of the next episode, [{spoiler: "The Girl Who Died" -- in which ''the Doctor'' isn't willing to let innocent Ashildr die and the only way he can save her involves robbing her of ''her'' death. From there, the stage is set for a SeasonFinale in which he undergoes an out-and-out SanitySlippage upon Clara's final death, which temporarily turns him into a WoobieDestroyerOfWorlds who is willing to risk ''the entire universe'' to bring her back from the grave.]]
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
That wasn't unintentional. He was called out for it in the episode.


* UnintentionallyUnsympathetic: The Doctor deliberately allows O'Donnell to die simply to test a theory. He then decides to intervene after realising Clara will die next and notes that he will change time to do it. He then causes a StableTimeLoop to make sure O'Donnell and everyone else who died stays dead. Apparently they don't count since they are not Clara.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* HarsherInHindsight: The Doctor's KirkSummation to the Fisher King, accusing him of breaking the rules of life and death, becomes this after the events of the next episode, [[spoiler:"The Girl Who Died" -- in which ''the Doctor'' isn't willing to let innocent Ashildr die and the only way he can save her involves robbing her of ''her'' death. From there, the stage is set for a SeasonFinale in which he undergoes an out-and-out SanitySlippage upon Clara's final death, which temporarily turns him into a WoobieDestroyerOfWorlds who is willing to risk ''the entire universe'' to bring her back from the grave.]]

to:

* HarsherInHindsight: The Doctor's KirkSummation to the Fisher King, accusing him of breaking the rules of life and death, becomes this after the events of the next episode, [[spoiler:"The "The Girl Who Died" -- in which ''the Doctor'' isn't willing to let innocent Ashildr die and the only way he can save her involves robbing her of ''her'' death. From there, the stage is set for a SeasonFinale in which he undergoes an out-and-out SanitySlippage upon Clara's final death, which temporarily turns him into a WoobieDestroyerOfWorlds who is willing to risk ''the entire universe'' to bring her back from the grave.]]

Changed: 12

Removed: 577

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Ship Tease is not YMMV.


* InternetBackdraft: Those opposed to the Doctor-Clara romantic relationship were not happy to see this episode loaded to the gills with ship tease (see below), and were doubly not happy to see the Doctor betray his principles to try and save her (and not for the last time this season, either).
* ShipTease: Clara challenges the Doctor to prove he loves her by avoiding his death (using the actual word "love" in this context), after she states that he's become essential to her. This, combined with the ship-teasy moments of Part 1, and the Doctor's statement "I'm changing history to save Clara", are considered prime examples of the (WordOfGod-supported) ship between the Doctor and Clara kicking into high gear. In a more YMMV vein, the Doctor's morning breath joke, aimed at Clara, is also seen as being a somewhat intimate gag for two people who were "just friends".

to:

* InternetBackdraft: Those opposed to the Doctor-Clara romantic relationship were not happy to see this episode loaded to the gills with ship tease (see below), tease, and were doubly not happy to see the Doctor betray his principles to try and save her (and not for the last time this season, either).
* ShipTease: Clara challenges the Doctor to prove he loves her by avoiding his death (using the actual word "love" in this context), after she states that he's become essential to her. This, combined with the ship-teasy moments of Part 1, and the Doctor's statement "I'm changing history to save Clara", are considered prime examples of the (WordOfGod-supported) ship between the Doctor and Clara kicking into high gear. In a more YMMV vein, the Doctor's morning breath joke, aimed at Clara, is also seen as being a somewhat intimate gag for two people who were "just friends".
either).
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* HarsherInHindsight: The Doctor's KirkSummation to the Fisher King, accusing him of breaking the rules of life and death, becomes this after the events of the next episode, "The Girl Who Died" -- in which ''the Doctor'' isn't willing to let innocent Ashildr die and the only way he can save her involves robbing her of ''her'' death. From there, the stage is set for a SeasonFinale in which he undergoes an out-and-out SanitySlippage upon Clara's final death, which temporarily turns him into a WoobieDestroyerOfWorlds who is willing to risk ''the entire universe'' to bring her back from the grave.

to:

* HarsherInHindsight: The Doctor's KirkSummation to the Fisher King, accusing him of breaking the rules of life and death, becomes this after the events of the next episode, "The [[spoiler:"The Girl Who Died" -- in which ''the Doctor'' isn't willing to let innocent Ashildr die and the only way he can save her involves robbing her of ''her'' death. From there, the stage is set for a SeasonFinale in which he undergoes an out-and-out SanitySlippage upon Clara's final death, which temporarily turns him into a WoobieDestroyerOfWorlds who is willing to risk ''the entire universe'' to bring her back from the grave.]]
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* AntiClimaxBoss: Despite being built up as a huge threat, the Fisher King doesn't do that much other kill O'Donnell off screen. He exchanges words with the Doctor, leaves the room and gets hit with a flood. The ghosts stay the main threat.

to:

* AntiClimaxBoss: Despite being built up as a huge threat, the Fisher King doesn't do that much other kill than killing O'Donnell off screen. He exchanges words with the Doctor, leaves the room and gets hit with a flood. The ghosts stay the main threat.

Changed: 343

Removed: 277

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Example does not explain how it is Internet Backdraft, just states what the backdraft is about.


* InternetBackdraft: O'Donnell's death. She is the latest InUniverse fangirl of the Doctor to meet her death: after Lorna Bucket and Osgood. This is especially since the Doctor could've done a lot more to try and prevent it, and later refuses to allow someone else to prevent it.
** Those opposed to the Doctor-Clara romantic relationship were not happy to see this episode loaded to the gills with ship tease (see below), and were doubly not happy to see the Doctor betray his principles to try and save her (and not for the last time this season, either).

to:

* InternetBackdraft: O'Donnell's death. She is the latest InUniverse fangirl of the Doctor to meet her death: after Lorna Bucket and Osgood. This is especially since the Doctor could've done a lot more to try and prevent it, and later refuses to allow someone else to prevent it.
**
Those opposed to the Doctor-Clara romantic relationship were not happy to see this episode loaded to the gills with ship tease (see below), and were doubly not happy to see the Doctor betray his principles to try and save her (and not for the last time this season, either).
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** Those opposed to the Doctor-Clara romantic relationship were not happy to see this episode loaded to the gills with ship tease (see below), and were doubly not happy to see the Doctor betray his principles to try and save her.

to:

** Those opposed to the Doctor-Clara romantic relationship were not happy to see this episode loaded to the gills with ship tease (see below), and were doubly not happy to see the Doctor betray his principles to try and save her.her (and not for the last time this season, either).

Added: 577

Changed: 515

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* ShipTease: Clara challenges the Doctor to prove he loves her by avoiding his death (using the actual word "love" in this context), after she states that he's become essential to her. This, combined with the ship-teasy moments of Part 1, and the Doctor's statement "I'm changing history to save Clara", are considered prime examples of the (WordOfGod-supported) ship between the Doctor and Clara kicking into high gear.

to:

** Those opposed to the Doctor-Clara romantic relationship were not happy to see this episode loaded to the gills with ship tease (see below), and were doubly not happy to see the Doctor betray his principles to try and save her.
* ShipTease: Clara challenges the Doctor to prove he loves her by avoiding his death (using the actual word "love" in this context), after she states that he's become essential to her. This, combined with the ship-teasy moments of Part 1, and the Doctor's statement "I'm changing history to save Clara", are considered prime examples of the (WordOfGod-supported) ship between the Doctor and Clara kicking into high gear. In a more YMMV vein, the Doctor's morning breath joke, aimed at Clara, is also seen as being a somewhat intimate gag for two people who were "just friends".



----

to:

----
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

* ShipTease: Clara challenges the Doctor to prove he loves her by avoiding his death (using the actual word "love" in this context), after she states that he's become essential to her. This, combined with the ship-teasy moments of Part 1, and the Doctor's statement "I'm changing history to save Clara", are considered prime examples of the (WordOfGod-supported) ship between the Doctor and Clara kicking into high gear.

Added: 362

Changed: 1

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* InternetBackdraft: O'Donnell's death. She is the latest InUniverse fangirl of the Doctor to meet her death: after Lorna Bucket and Osgood. Tis is especially since the Doctor could've done a lot more to try and prevent it, and later refuses to allow someone else to prevent it.

to:

* InternetBackdraft: O'Donnell's death. She is the latest InUniverse fangirl of the Doctor to meet her death: after Lorna Bucket and Osgood. Tis This is especially since the Doctor could've done a lot more to try and prevent it, and later refuses to allow someone else to prevent it.
* UnintentionallyUnsympathetic: The Doctor deliberately allows O'Donnell to die simply to test a theory. He then decides to intervene after realising Clara will die next and notes that he will change time to do
it. He then causes a StableTimeLoop to make sure O'Donnell and everyone else who died stays dead. Apparently they don't count since they are not Clara.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* AntiClimaxBoss: Despite being built up as a huge threat, the Fisher King doesn't actually do that much, with the ghosts being the main threat.

to:

* AntiClimaxBoss: Despite being built up as a huge threat, the Fisher King doesn't actually do that much, much other kill O'Donnell off screen. He exchanges words with the Doctor, leaves the room and gets hit with a flood. The ghosts being stay the main threat.



* HarsherInHindsight: The Doctor's KirkSummation to the Fisher King, accusing him of breaking the rules of life and death, becomes this after the events of the next episode, "The Girl Who Died" -- in which ''the Doctor'' isn't willing to let innocent Ashildr die and the only way he can save her involves robbing her of ''her'' death. And from there, the stage is set for a SeasonFinale in which he undergoes an out-and-out SanitySlippage upon Clara's final death, which temporarily turns him into a WoobieDestroyerOfWorlds who is willing to risk ''the entire universe'' to bring her back from the grave.
* InternetBackdraft: O'Donnell's death. She is the latest InUniverse fangirl of the Doctor to meet her death: after Lorna Bucket and Osgood. Especially since the Doctor could've done a lot more to try and prevent it.
* TheUntwist: Because of said previous deaths, O'Donnell's death was pretty easy to see coming. The twist is the Doctor's rationale for letting it happen.

to:

* HarsherInHindsight: The Doctor's KirkSummation to the Fisher King, accusing him of breaking the rules of life and death, becomes this after the events of the next episode, "The Girl Who Died" -- in which ''the Doctor'' isn't willing to let innocent Ashildr die and the only way he can save her involves robbing her of ''her'' death. And from From there, the stage is set for a SeasonFinale in which he undergoes an out-and-out SanitySlippage upon Clara's final death, which temporarily turns him into a WoobieDestroyerOfWorlds who is willing to risk ''the entire universe'' to bring her back from the grave.
* InternetBackdraft: O'Donnell's death. She is the latest InUniverse fangirl of the Doctor to meet her death: after Lorna Bucket and Osgood. Especially Tis is especially since the Doctor could've done a lot more to try and prevent it.
it, and later refuses to allow someone else to prevent it.
* TheUntwist: Because of said previous InUniverse fangirl deaths, O'Donnell's death was pretty easy to see coming. The twist is the Doctor's rationale for letting it happen.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* HarsherInHindsight: The Doctor's KirkSummation to the Fisher King, accusing him of breaking the rules of life and death, becomes this after the events of the next episode, "The Girl Who Died" -- in which ''the Doctor'' isn't willing to let innocent Ashildr die and the only way he can save her involves robbing her of ''her'' death. And from there, the stage is set for a SeasonFinale in which he undergoes an out-and-out SanitySlippage upon Clara's final death, which temporarily turns him into a WoobieDestroyerOfWorlds who is willing to risk ''the entire universe'' to bring her back from the grave.



----

to:

----

Changed: 188

Removed: 224

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Not YMMV


* RelationshipUpgrade: Fans who ship the Doctor and Clara point to this episode as the true start of the road that leads to Hell Bent, in particular Clara's unexpected outburst "If you love me in any way, you'll come back".



* ViewersAreMorons: The episode feels the need to explain to the audience in great detail what a "bootstrap paradox" is, after five years of Steven Moffat relying heavily on the trope.

to:

* ViewersAreMorons: The episode feels the need to explain to the audience in great detail what a "bootstrap paradox" is, after five years of Steven Moffat relying heavily on the trope.----

Added: 154

Changed: 249

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* TheUntwist: Because of said previous deaths, O'Donnell's death was pretty easy to see coming.

to:

* RelationshipUpgrade: Fans who ship the Doctor and Clara point to this episode as the true start of the road that leads to Hell Bent, in particular Clara's unexpected outburst "If you love me in any way, you'll come back".
* TheUntwist: Because of said previous deaths, O'Donnell's death was pretty easy to see coming. The twist is the Doctor's rationale for letting it happen.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* TheUntwist: Because of said previous deaths, O'Donnell's death was pretty easy to see coming.

to:

* TheUntwist: Because of said previous deaths, O'Donnell's death was pretty easy to see coming.coming.
* ViewersAreMorons: The episode feels the need to explain to the audience in great detail what a "bootstrap paradox" is, after five years of Steven Moffat relying heavily on the trope.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

* FridgeLogic: While it was cool, Cass didn't really need to feel the vibrations through the floor - she's deaf, not blind. She could just have looked behind her.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** TheUntwist: Because of said previous deaths, it was pretty easy to see coming.

to:

** * TheUntwist: Because of said previous deaths, it O'Donnell's death was pretty easy to see coming.

Added: 297

Changed: 269

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* InternetBackdraft: O'Donnell's death. She is the latest InUniverse fangirl of the Doctor to meet her death: after Lorna Bucket and Osgood. Especially since the Doctor could've done a lot more to try and prevent it.

to:

* AntiClimaxBoss: Despite being built up as a huge threat, the Fisher King doesn't actually do that much, with the ghosts being the main threat.
* InternetBackdraft: O'Donnell's death. She is the latest InUniverse fangirl of the Doctor to meet her death: after Lorna Bucket and Osgood. Especially since the Doctor could've done a lot more to try and prevent it.it.
** TheUntwist: Because of said previous deaths, it was pretty easy to see coming.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

* InternetBackdraft: O'Donnell's death. She is the latest InUniverse fangirl of the Doctor to meet her death: after Lorna Bucket and Osgood. Especially since the Doctor could've done a lot more to try and prevent it.

Top