Theories involving crossovers with non-Games-Workshop franchises should go here.
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Both were female. The exploits of the two Primcesses will never be known.
- Fairly unlikely, as any time the lost Primarchs are mentioned (Notably in the Horus Heresy novels), they're referred to as male. In addition, it doesn't appear that the Emperor, or anyone else in the setting, gives a damn about the sex of their combat troops, with the exception of the Valhallans and the Cadians, neither of which were in the Imperium during the time of the Primarchs, and neither of which have any sort of say over what Space marine stories are told.
And its causing all sorts of craziness to happen in the real world. Things like people turning into Psykers, space and time manipulation, "miracles", and other oddness.
Basically its rewriting the Laws of Reality nto the Suggestions of Reality.
- Isn't that canon, and not a guess?
On seeing mankind's first experiments with the internal combustion engine used to move several tons of metal, the Emperor knew that this was the future of war, and resolved to aid humanity to develop it further. In the guise of Henry Ford, he proceeded to make the motorized vehicle an essential part of everyday life, that combat vehicles might then be developped. As for referring to a god in the first speech, well, he had to keep his disguise consistent with the tims. As an atheist, he wouldn't care about paying lip service anyway.
- Henry Ford was a crazy bigot who treated his son like crap and was otherwise an all-around general prick, so that would certainly fit.
It's the present. Earth — or at least what we call Earth — is merely incredibly similar to Holy Terra and its sun during its own Second Millennium. This is also why there are so many religions on "Earth", as they are all spun from the same Imperial Cult with varying degrees of Chaos taint, seeing the God-Emperor and the Primarchs through several different lenses. The actual truth — or rather, as close as we presently are aware of — is coming to us through the mouth of Games Workshop, who have access to either historical archives, or a Psyker capable of communicating through the Warp. The reason it uses so many religious references is merely so we understand what it is, and even then it's probably only somewhat accurate.
"Earth" was, at some distant time in the past, a planet in the Imperium that lost contact during what we know as the Horus Heresy or the Age of Strife. Records were lost, so those of us who were around had to fill in the gaps. We do this with various means — religion, science, etcetera, but so far we've not even begun to recover what we lost when we lost contact with the Imperium.
We've so far not managed to communicate with any of the factions through sheer stroke of luck, and through using the wrong means of communication. Nobody's been in range, either — and if Games Workshop has any degree of accuracy, that may well be for the better. In all likelihood, if Imperials were to pick us up, we'd better pray to the REAL God-Emperor that they will forgive us!
- Alternatively, the Emperor chose to forget us and hide our existence exactly because we're all Pariahs. It's been implied in that an Omega Minus embryo's effect on psychic individuals is somewhat horrifying, as in it can kill GREY KNIGHTS (demigods made from the gene-seed of the EMPRAH himself) dead. Immediately. It then manages to outright destroy a powerful Thousand Sons Sorcerer AND give Azhek Ahriaman (one of the most powerful psykers in the galaxy) a fit from sectors away. Now imagine six billion Omega class pariahs superconcentrated in a single planet, and overpopulating exponentially. That would probably create a black hole-like effect in the Warp. Basically, if we ever spread out to the galaxy we can kill the Emprah and the Chaos Gods dead while making the Orks and the Tyranid Hive Mind scared shitless of us. And that's why no warpfuckery is coming to us now and we can get away with committing all kinds of Slaaneshi stuff over the net. Although we're still all gonna die if the Necrons ever wake up.
- As the original author of the prior idea, I have this to add (AKA the "Earth is a lost colony" idea): A couple of blanks? They screw up warp presence. But if the Imperium were to find us again, they'd probably turn us into anti-Chaos Imperial Guard regiments. I mean, think about it: We've almost technologically caught up with the Imperium and we've just been here for a good few thousand years. After all, being a few regiments of Blanks and Pariahs, we could probably close the Eye of Terror ourselves and clean house with the vast majority of what the Warp could throw at us. Probably the only reason the Imperium isn't marching us to battle is because they can't find us. We don't have enough warp presence for them to be able to track us down. Of course, that means if there ARE any Psykers (the Native Americans come to mind, though they obviously couldn't operate in close proximity with the Europeans, who actually ARE mostly blanks) that come from Earth, an Earthling Psyker is goddamn powerful if s/he can stay alive surrounded by the single, most concentrated ball of anti-magic in the galaxy...
- This also explains why "Earth" is so culturally varied - we actually have people from several planets placed here to be stranded and forgotten about - Kreigers, Valhallans, Cadians, probably a handful of Tanith, and et cetera were all sent to "Earth". And because of the Birds of a Feather rule, most of them flocked together into groups which became countries. Indeed, you could debatably say that the likes of the Roman Empire harken back to an era when we were in contact with the Imperium. Yes, the Imperium does speak Latin.
- Actually, it's not that earth is full of pariahs and blanks that keeps us safe from Chaos. It's that earth is full of religious people. Remember, religion weakens Chaos by redirecting man's spiritual energies away from Chaos. The vast majority of people living on earth have historically been religious. That's what keeps down outbreaks of obvious Chaos.
- Then why aren't there daemons derived from Christianity, Islam and Hinduism appearing before us? Also, Islamic Terrorism is feeding Khorne a lot....
- Or maybe it is our status as Blanks and Pariahs, combined with our highly Scientific culture in the modern era. The Emperor was right in that rationality and logic will starve Chaos.
- At the same time, you could argue that people are starting to look to Science as their religion - Happyology not withstanding. That's clearly Chaotic and heretical. But more handling it like the end-all be-all for a given question as opposed to the older "God did it". It might be protecting us from the warp, combined with the Blank and Pariah nature of us. I've seen the Scientific types being just as irrational and illogical as Religious types. It isn't what they're worshiping - insomuch as they worship something besides blood, death, rape and complexity, then they should be good to go unless they manage to reestablish contact with the Galaxy at large.
- It looks like you've been fooled by Clarke's Third Law. A scientific theory is considered to by true because if it weren't true then the world around us would work completely differently. Additionally the use of Scientific knowledge is something everyone can see, touch, understand and it's "miracles" can be replicated. Religious Dogma by contrast is reliant on the claim that people can not understand how their religion works and that only a select group of people that can't be joined (Prophets and Saints) truly understand it. The many "miracles" of religion haven't been replicated in a controlled environment. (For example an experiment involving praying for some patients and not praying for others has been repeated multiple times. Each time with widely different results.)
- One could argue that would be a combination of "Science IS our religion" and us being the Antipsykers. We simply don't show up in the Warp and too firmly believe that things should work in a certain way which causes, for us, our little chunk of the universe to work that way. Considering what (we think) we know about the Warp, if that actually did get involved our entire perception of science would be torn up by its roots. Us believing in Science (note capitalization) and being Blanks, Pariahs, or both, and building our cultures and societies around it means that we simply cannot think of another way to operate - and, so far, nothing has taken note of us. And because we happen to live on a world where the negative effects of questioning faith (which generally means Chaos, Daemons, and nastiness as a whole). Our rejection of outside influence means that when there is a Psyker powerful enough to survive being born, they're just looked at as a madman because their visions and warnings don't match up with what we think we know (and as far as "Earth" is concerned, actually know) even by the most pious of the religious.
- At the same time, you could argue that people are starting to look to Science as their religion - Happyology not withstanding. That's clearly Chaotic and heretical. But more handling it like the end-all be-all for a given question as opposed to the older "God did it". It might be protecting us from the warp, combined with the Blank and Pariah nature of us. I've seen the Scientific types being just as irrational and illogical as Religious types. It isn't what they're worshiping - insomuch as they worship something besides blood, death, rape and complexity, then they should be good to go unless they manage to reestablish contact with the Galaxy at large.
The souls of the numerous psykers sacrificed to the throne are being absorbed by the Emperor in order to bolster his power. Much like with what happened in the "collective reincarnation of human shamen" origin story. He simply has been biding his time, letting the armies of the Imperium hold the line until he's strong enough to dump a bucket of whipass on the Gods of Chaos.
- This is an interesting theory, but it seems to suffer from the common misconception that Chaos=evil, Emperor=good. Remember, the Emperor was a brutal, genocidal tyrant who conquered the galaxy by brute force and mandated the extermination of countless sapient species. Many of the civilizations the Emperor conquered were flourishing, enlightened democracies. Was anyone, human or xeno, really better off because the Imperium conquered the Interex? A better way to think about it is that Chaos represents freedom degenerated into anarchy, while the Emperor represents order degenerated into tyranny. That being said, maybe a union between the two sides would be just the thing to restore decency to both.
- Also, while starving the Chaos gods through atheism was indeed the Emperor's plan, it was a foolish and misguided plan, based on a critical misconception: the Chaos gods do not get power from worship (well, they do, but not the vast bulk of their power); they get power from the emotions of sapient creatures: love and compassion empower Nurgle, courage and honor empower Khorne, hope and ambition empower Tzeentch, and passion and desire empower Slaanesh. What weakens the Chaos gods is religion: the worship of some other being redirects the spiritual energies that would otherwise fuel Chaos toward the object of that worship. So trying to starve the Chaos gods with atheism would be like trying to fight fire by blowing up all the fire departments, killing all the firemen, and destroying all the fire hydrants and fire extinguishers.
- So, by this theory, where do Chaos Space Marines come from?
- Simple: they were survivors of the losing side of the war, who quite rationally fled to the one place in the galaxy where they could be confident that the winners would not pursue them: the so-called Eye of Terror. Of course, the mutagenic effects of long-term exposure to the Immaterium are quite real.
- Consider the following fact: supposedly the germ of the Horus Heresy was when the Emperor left the Great Crusade without telling the Primarchs why, causing resentment among them, and particularly in Horus. Now, imagine you and your many brothers are away from home, working with your father on a big important project. One day, after you achieved a particularly important milestone in that project, your father gathers you all together and says, "Boys, I have to go home now to work on a different project. I can't tell you what it is yet; it's a surprise, but I promise you'll like it. Now, I want you to continue working on this project, and I'm leaving you, Horus, in charge." If you're Horus, are you going to feel resentment at this? Feel like you've been abandoned, or that your father doesn't love or trust you? Of course not! You're going to feel great! Your father just left you in charge of all your brothers in this big, important project. So Horus' alleged motive makes no sense. Who would resent your elevation above your brothers? Why, your brothers, of course, or at least those who thought that they were the ones who ought to have been left in charge. And who, above all the others, thought that he should be in charge? That he was the greatest of the Primarchs, his Legion the greatest of the Legions? Why, the one who named his legion the Ultramarines. Could there be a more obvious clue that Guilliman believed himself to be superior to the other Primarchs, and that his legion stood above all the others? And, if so, wouldn't he have resented it when the Emperor left Horus in charge instead? Thus, wouldn't he have every reason to try to seize power when the Emperor died, and to blacken Horus' name and reputation, so that everyone would think that Horus was the traitor, instead of Guilliman? Take a look at the biography of Roboute Guilliman
, specifically the line about Guilliman's reaction to the Emperor's decision to elevate Horus: "Guilliman accepted the news without resentment, and Horus continued to seek his counsel. However, Horus believed that Guilliman felt that he had deserved the honour of being named Warmaster just as much, if not more." Considering that history is Written by the Winners, it's obvious that this was Guilliman's account of his reaction. Doesn't it seem like he's protesting a little much? As if he's worried people would suspect that he did resent it, so he's going to great lengths to assure everyone that he was fine with it?- Horus didn't become a traitor because the Emperor left him in charge, he became a traitor because the Emperor was taking credit for all his victories (along with various other factors).
- Here's another interesting piece of evidence: take another look at Roboute Guilliman's biography, with particular attention to how he came to rule Macragge. While Roboute was away, pacifying the barbarous regions of Macragge, his adopted father, Konor Guilliman, the noble and good ruler, was betrayed by the evil co-consul Gallan and his forces. Konor personally led the defenses of the Senate-house, even though he was mortally wounded in the process. Just when all seemed lost, Roboute returned, put the rebel forces to flight, and, with Konor and Gallan both dead, took power as the sole, absolute ruler of Macragge. Doesn't that story seem familiar? Substitute the names Horus, the Emperor, and the Milky Way for Gallan, Konor, and Macragge, and isn't that the exact same story as the Horus Heresy? Doesn't that seem like an odd coincidence? Roboute probably figured, rightly, as it turned out, that the same scheme that allowed him to take over Macragge would allow him to take over the Imperium too.
- Considering how lazy the Eldar were before the birth of Slaanesh it's quite plausible that the Eldar didn't expand so far because they didn't want to.
- Does that really seem credible? The Eldar did manage to rule a fairly large empire as it was; the Eye of Terror is twenty-thousand light years across, after all. Does that really sound like an empire built by lazy people to you? Also, why does the Webway spread throughout the galaxy? Of course, considering the following WMG, it's possible that the Webway was built by humans in the first place.
- They spent all their time engaging in massive hedonism so, yes, I'd consider that lazy, and while the humans spread out across the whole galaxy the pre-fall Eldar were concentrated in a space that's very small in comparison to the rest of the universe.
- That's circular reasoning: you're arguing that the guess is wrong because the Eldar were lazy, and we know that they were lazy because they didn't expand that much, wasting their time on hedonism instead, but the whole point of the guess is that the Eldar weren't insane hedonists, and the only reason that they didn't expand more was that they couldn't, because their pre-Fall civilization wasn't as advanced as the myth has it. It's begging the question to say that the myth is true because the myth says so.
Maybe the Imperium and everybody in the galaxy, in order to justify their mutual xenophobia, mythologized and retconned the Old Ones into space lizards in order to deny and conceal the fact that it was once Mankind who fell under the Necrons and created the all-too-human Eldar in the first place?
The "Iron Men" of the Dark Age who rebelled against humanity and ended the Glory Days were of course, the Necrons (Their weapons are basically Tesla Coils named after Terran electrical scientist Carl Friedrich Gauss!), whose original forms (now known as the "Necrontyr") may or may not be mechanical (full Iron Men) or cybernetic (servitors and artificial lifeforms with both organic and electronic components) or full replicants. The actual issue about their "lifespan jealousy" that led to the war was that their fates are similar to that of Replicants, with an intentionally short lifespan and easy shutdown "retirement" in order to prevent the full mental maturity of their intelligence which will result in an interstellar organized rebellion. In their perspective, Humans were Old Ones, even more so when humans invented lifespan-extending technology for themselves, and when the replicant Slave Race were forced to work in dangerous destructive environments such as Death Worlds near radioactive stars. They became jealous and resentful of the Old Ones, and tried to form their own cultural identity and civilization to little avail because of their mechanically miserable, dead, necrotic un-lives. However, the C'tan (which I can speculate started out as rogue programs based on star-energy-harvesting Dyson Spheres such as the Outsider himself, and acquired their godlike powers from sufficiently advanced technology, or the C'tan could have been actual star-borne Energy Beings that found interest in harvesting organic energy and manifested themselves as programs with robotic bodies) intervened and transformed them into the formidable vindictive Killer Robot "Men of Iron" who assumed the cultural identity and civilization of the "Necrontyr", now made immortal and overpowered by cybernetic Nano Machines, also known as Necrodermis. The advanced Nanomachines that composed Necrodermis looked and worked like metal with an organic structure, hence the metaphor "living metal". The Necrons, as a part of their independence in order to distance themselves from Humanity and their use of the Warp, pioneered many anti-Warp technologies, such as an upgraded and faster version of long-forgotten Alcubierre drives and teleportation devices that worked in real-space and used to be slower but more predictable than Immaterium Warp travel.
Speaking of the Warp, during these golden times, the Warp was just your ordinary science fiction Hyperspace for Faster-Than-Light Travel, and it was safe to use it and adhered to scientific laws, and any abominations that did inhabit there minded their own business. The Warp of ancient Terran times was never bound to human thoughts and emotions. This was why humans in Ancient Terran times could look at limitless Internet pornography yet avoid assimilation by Slaanesh, because Slaanesh never existed before the aeons of the Old One Dark Age of Technology. Humanity eventually became able to create a transit system to provide a completely safe and instantaneous form of transportation throughout the galaxy: that which future generations would call "the Webway."
However, Mankind saw Hyperspace's potential in its ability to modify the very laws of physics, and in their hubris attempted to augment themselves with it. The abuse of Trans Humanism, Genetic Engineering and invention of Psychic Powers mutated the Immaterium as no longer just another hyperspace, but a repository garbage dumpsite for some of the most intense human emotions and disgusting thoughts in the human collective unconscious, that which manifested themselves as Eldritch Abominations with an active interest in human affairs. Examples of these trans-human creations are the Eldar, the Emperor of Mankind, and the Psyker genetic potential which created the rest of the Ruinous Powers of Chaos.
The Eldar are the result of a Transhumanist experiment to use genetic engineering and the reality-warping Immaterium to mould few human specimens into Anime-like Artificial Humans who represented an epitome of beauty and perfectionism, and also to possess psychic abilities for weaponization against the Necron uprising. Unfortunately, this ambitious project was a great tragedy, with how the Eldar abused their new-found bodies and Warp powers, most especially for Power Perversion Potential, resulting in the accidental creation of Slaanesh and the Eye of Terror centred in the primary Eldar research worlds, that allowed the Eldritch Abominations of Chaos to dominate the Warp, Mind Rape unprotected Eldar, and infiltrate the Real World. This resulted in the destruction and loss of many Eldar Experiment-related sciences, such as how to construct technologies out of wraithbone (which does look and work like psychically-augmented nanomachines). The reason for the conveniently-located strategic structures that quarantined the location of the Eye of Terror, now known as the Cadian Gate, is that both Necrons and surviving Human scientists took notice and attempted to isolate and close off the Eye of Terror before it grows large enough as to infest and consume the galaxy, but were unable to finish the project due to the War's consumption of their resources, and the Age of Strife that came after.
The Emperor of Mankind is a Super Prototype Transhuman created through a similar phenomenon of fusing the power of many transhuman volunteers, that ancient Imperial history can only refer to as "shamans" or "sensei". He's not as beautiful as the Eldar, but he was a more stable specimen, easier to maintain and less likely to collapse into insanity and Mind Rape by Slaanesh. Unlike the Eldar's Crippling Overspecialization, the Emperor had the advantage of overall versatility and self-improvement as he continued to self-direct the Evolutionary Levels of his transhuman abilities, to the point that by the Imperium's establishment he had already evolved into a hulking Physical God, allowing him to out-psyker the mass-produced transhuman Eldar by a hundred thousand degrees. He was also one of, or at least related to, the many now-deceased Old One scientists who created the Webway network, hence why he had a Webway Gate in his secret laboratory and only he knew the knowledge about how it exactly works, now long lost even to many Eldar. These mentioned scientists may also be related to the creation of the Black Library, once the collective encyclopaedia about the Immaterium by the Old Ones' science, now a lost craftworld only known to obscure groups of Eldars and Inquisitors.
The proliferation and infestation of Psychic Powers in the greater human genome, which led to the creation and empowerment of the the Ruinous Powers of Chaos as a whole, was actually due to a remnant mutation that once originated from the ancient Genetic Engineering and Bio-Augmentation industry that created the Emperor of Mankind and the Navigator gene, allowing humanity to use the Warp and prosper as the interstellar superpower of the galaxy. However, the genetic engineering industry inflated into humanity's decadent hedonistic addiction to Transhumanism, eventually culminating in the Eldar Experiment and the Psychic Power Perversion Potential mass insanity disaster that came after. Even when many Transhuman technologies were destroyed by the Great Necron War and the Eldar Disaster, the Psyker genetic disease still continued to spread in secret throughout one human generation after another, as long as individuals whose ancestors were augmented or carried the gene kept breeding. In a galaxy where the vast majority of humans possessed the soul-gene that attracts Psychic Chaos influence, the only remaining genetic descendants of true 20th-century Real Life Humanity are now known as the "soul"-less Blanks, whose "Real Human" genes have become reduced into nothing more than a recessive gene with more pronounced psyker-neutralizing abilities.
The Orks were an incomplete genetic experiment by Mankind to eradicate the Necrons and make another replacement Servant Race for war, menial labour, exploration and terraforming projects with their resilient self-sustaining fungus-based ecosystem. This is also why Da Orks spoke the British Cockney accent, because one or more of their creators spoke in a Cockney accent or at least a bastardized British accent. The Old Ones originally intended for Orks to have a psychic control mechanism, but the sciences of their civilization died before they can complete it, and now the Orks run feral, berserk and retarded everywhere, their gestalt psychic gift out of control.
Despite suffering interstellar holocausts under the Necrons' overpowered nanotech-augmented mecha-armies, Mankind managed with some of his remaining technology, lucky cunning and help from remaining loyal groups of transhumans, to fight back with vengeance and chase them away into hiding and hibernation, culminating with the Emperor and many other transhumans like him using most, if not all, of their psychic prowess to imprison the Void Dragon and many Necrons underneath Mars where their machines could provide a secret basis for the future Adeptus Mechanicus. But doing such a feat resulted in the vast majority of human scientists and transhumans sacrificing themselves, and such victory was nothing more than a minuscule and Pyrrhic Victory that cost the war-weary remnants of Humanity most of his science and unity, reducing his dominion into poverty and disorder, compared to what would come after.
The Enslavers that extinguished Old One civilization once and for all were simply one of the many daemonic disasters caused by the massive Eldar Fiasco and Warp Catastrophe that created Slaanesh, prohibited normal Warp travel for a long time, fragmented the old technological dominions of Man into anarchist interwarring techno-gang warlordism, caused mass Daemonic infestations, eradicated Human Scientific Enlightenment culture once and for all, caused the ignorance and barbarism of the Age of Strife, warped and retconned history, and mutated the Warp into the insane Chaotic Grimdark Hell straight out of Dante as it is now. The discharge of the Warp into the real world can warp time and make the 41st millennium seem perpetual, so who's to say that it can't warp history and allow easy unpersoning of important historical figures, especially scientists, in the Dark Age?
Some Necrons, with their assumption that Mankind was going to be weakened and die from their own devices, went into hibernation and waited for a while, or (as of the latest codex which paints them as sapient not-so-omnicidal Tomb Kings in space) formed their own civilization resisting against direct control of the C'tan. A few surviving group of Craftworld Eldar, who were protected by wraithbone and the Webway, isolated themselves from the growing hostility of the universe and its remnant "monkey" techno-gangs, eventually forgot the Technology-era humans who created them, and developed their own distinct puritan culture while mythologizing their history. In their mythos, they fabricated their identity as not transhuman creations, but complete Xeno not related whatsoever to the damned fallen Mon-keigh barbarians. Hence their portrayal of Old Ones as vague lizardmen. On the other hand, the Dark Eldar, with their desire to return to the decadence of the Dark Age, didn't care about it all and instead embraced the nihilistic techno-gang way of life, with their full-blown hedonism and open rape and breeding and sacrifices of humans to Slaanesh.
However, despite all that, a few descendants of Mankind were still too stubborn to go down. After the End, the exhausted and jaded Emperor of Mankind, who had witnessed and survived through the tragic downfall of the Old Ones under the Necrons and their own Xenos creations, vowed to "fix these mistakes" at least until he can subjugate them under his control, and decided to fabricate human history and create a new Orwellian space empire, with only himself as every important leader in ancient human history including Julius Caesar and Jesus Christ, in order to hide to the Imperium that humanity were once known as the Old Ones that created both himself and many of the Xenos they're fighting against now. He also intentionally dialled back advanced human technology for survival until the time was right to advance again, and he prevented any ordinary person from reverse-engineering dangerous Necron and Eldar science. Any Old One Technology-era science, such as the Transhumanist technology scaled-down for the use of the more stable Primarchs and deliberately-weakened Astartes, was kept for only himself and a few loyal Mechanicus trustees, while even his own Primarch sons are banned from knowing anything about the Dark Age of Technology. He still did help in locating many useful remnants of Humanity's Old One Era technology (e.g. Standard Template Constructs) that could eventually be utilized for Mankind's benefit once he revives his Webway project through the Golden Throne system, allowing Humanity to reclaim his status as the sole superpower of the Milky Way galaxy.
Unfortunately, the Horus Heresy screwed that all up to hopeless hell, and now Mankind is weak and confused about his real history, while condemned to consumption and extermination by the innumerable intergalactic Hive of the Tyranids. What a tragedy for humanity!
- I really like this one, memememememe, because it solves three problems I've always had with the "canonical" ancient history of the 40K universe. First, how could life on earth have survived the C'tan-Old One war, and the ensuing Enslaver Plague? The accepted historical account places the War in Heaven about 60 million years ago, and claims that the two events nearly wiped out all life in the galaxy. Now, about 60 million years before the 41st millenium CE, earth was right in the middle of the Paleocene Epoch. How was life on earth not affected by these galactic catastrophes? (The Paleocene did, incidentally, begin after a major extinction event on earth, but that would have been about 6 million years earlier.) Second, it seems incredibly improbable that the Eldar would be able to procreate with humans, given their supposedly radically different origins, and yet it seems that they can. Third, why does the Eldar myth of the War in Heaven seem to have no connection to the accepted historical account of the War in Heaven? The former is a tale of a war between two Eldar gods, Khaine and Vaul, for the fate of the Eldar progenitor gods, Isha and Kurnous. The latter is a tale of a war between the Old Ones, who were, granted, supposedly the Eldar progenitors, and the Necrons and their C'tan masters, who had no connection to Khaine; Khaine in fact is supposed to have fought against the C'tan Nightbringer. Your theory helps explain a lot. First, life on earth was unaffected by the Old One-C'tan war 60 million years ago because the war happened much later. Second, Eldar and humans can mate because the Eldar are genetically modified humans in the first place. Third, the Eldar myths are so distorted because they were altered deliberately, to create the myth that the Eldar are much more ancient than humans, and not their offspring. And it's also a funny coincidence that the main Eldar myth about Isha has her tears becoming the spirit stones that protect them from Slaanesh, even though those tears were allegedly shed before the War in Heaven, and also has her imprisoned by Khaine, whereas she is now imprisoned by Nurgle. One gets the impression that maybe Isha's imprisonment and tear-shedding were much more recent events than 60 million years ago.
- This would also explain the rather amazing coincidence that the Eldar symbol for Order just happens to be a yin-yang.
- This is also supported by how Overpowered equipment from the Dark Age of technology is. For example:
- Terminator Armor from that time is Nigh-Invulnerable.
- Baneblades are the Dark Age equivalent of a Light Tank and they used to be fielded in entire regiments. Imagine how powerful the Dark Age Heavy Tank is.
- The Imperiums most powerful ships are Dark Age cargo ships. By the Dark Age standards they're only equipped with the bare minimum to defend themselves and they're still so much more powerful than everything else.
- Also, if humans created the Webway, it would explain how humanity was able to spread throughout the galaxy during the Dark Age without the Astronomican to guide Navigators.
Perhaps, when the Imperium of Man annihilated the Interex for their Xenos tolerance, some of them evacuated into an obscure and peaceful sector of the galaxy far away from the Imperium centre of Terra. The Interex citizens eventually died off or went into hiding deep within the Tau planet, once populated by primitive primates but conveniently protected by defences to repel the damned Imperium's Exterminatus. Their technology just conveniently provided a specific tribe of Tau, now known as the Ethereals, the technology and knowledge for immunity against both the forces of the Imperium and Chaos so that they themselves can survive in the post-strife Crapsack World. This is why the Tau easily advanced fast enough to combat the stagnating forces of the Imperium, and also at the same time communicate and offer friendship with surviving Imperium citizens. However, with the Imperium's vengeance against all forms of heretics, the Interex behidn the Ethereals were forced to hide themselves, with the Ethereals representing their influence in the Tau civilization as a whole. The philosophy of diplomacy that the Interex represented eventually mutated into the Greater Good ideology of the Ethereals, but then again, even federations need to adapt in the chaos of the 41st millennium.
- This isn't a WMG at all. Numerous background material centered around Chaos including Black Crusade states outright that billions of relatively decent people worshiping Chaos Gods in various aspects (not only in the Imperium but outside it, hell, even many Chaos Space Marines like the World Reaver in Black Crusade) is a FACT. Same thing in Warhammer Fantasy, the Warriors of Chaos approach Chaos Worship like Norse paganism (you know, 'cause they're Vikings).
- I may say a heresy, but don't the Imperium already worship Khorne through its genocidal xenophobia and warmongering *BLAM*
- Strictly speaking, no. The Imperium may be empowering Khorne with all its war-waging and bloodshed, but it is doing so out of worship of the Emperor.
- Any of their talk about the worship of the Emperor is mere pretentious lip service; the Imperium through its misdeeds and irrationality worship Chaos *BLAM*
- Jossed. There has been more links to a lost Space Marine Chapter called the Fire Hawks. In addition, their loyalty is not due to penitence, but instead because that is all their minds can remember with the warp disease. Their appearing and vanishing is more because of their bodies are warp-formed to a degree. In addition, they have not been hunted by the Dark Angels.
are an extremely ancient xeno-technology that provides immortality at a great price. Whom do we know of in ancient times who were desperate to extend their short lifespans? The Necrontyr. It's possible, therefore, that the Necrontyr made the Halo Devices, but, if so, why did they then turn to the C'tan? What probably happened is that the Old Ones originally did want to help, and created the Halo Devices in an effort to give the Necrontyr what they wanted. Unfortunately, their Devices came with horrifying side effects that they were never able to eliminate, so they ultimately gave up and told the Necrontyr that they would just have to accept their fate, with the results that we all know of. Except that the Old Ones never bothered to tell the Necrontyr that they really had tried, and that the price of immortality was just too high. So you see, the war that started all the troubles was all just a big misunderstanding.- The main problem with this and the preceding guess is that Kroot consider Tyranid flesh to be "tainted" and they refuse to eat slain genestealers.
- They don't want to accidentally turn themselves into Tyrannids again.
- All but confirmed. And anyway, the Maerorus was a one-off prototype that went horribly wrong, not an actual temple.
- This would work except for that in this context, "bloodshed" is a synonym for combat. And Khorne is more of a rip-off of Odin in his aspect of a war-god, as Odin, like Khorne, is a patron of berserker rage and a "war for war's sake" kinda war-god. Also, like Odin, Khorne is a death god.
- Who says that bloodshed is a synonym for combat, as opposed to simply referring to, literally, bloodshed? Obviously bloodshed includes combat, but where is it written that it only includes combat? Your claim that Khorne was inspired by Odin, as opposed to just about every war god that existed in just about every polytheistic religion in human history, is unsupported by the evidence, especially since Odin was also the Norse god of magic, and Khorne loathes sorcery. But even if you are right, Odin also had a fertility aspect in Norse mythology.
- Because Khorne is the embodiment of aggression, rage, physical power and why he is constantly depicted as wielding a weapon or in a battle-stance by cultures that venerate him. Also, Khorne's fixation on close-quarters combat lends more credence to this. If his compulsion was on bloodletting in general, he wouldn't forbid long-ranged weaponry. Khorne accepts blood won by a single source, an honourable contest of arms, else he would not have any rules forbidding his warriors' choice of arms. So by this, menstruating women are probably out. Khorne's philosophy on "not caring from where blood flows", is meant to reflect that he has no compulsions on whether his own worshipers die fighting, or that he is indifferent to non-combatants dying in war. Not that he accepts bloodshed in general. Anyway, Khorne is inspired by Odin, because unlike every other war-god in polytheistic culture, he's the only one explicitly connected with battle fury (indeed, Odin is linked to the word "Odr", meaning fury and excitement, but admittedly also, mind and poetry). For example, Adam of Bremen writes in Gesta Hammaburgensis that "Wotan, that is, the Furious, carries on war and imparts men strength against their enemies". Additionally, much like Odin, Khorne promises an afterlife of eternal battle. He is very much Odin the War-God exaggerated. Bloodletters are also said in some background to be the souls of dead warriors given life again in the Realm of Chaos. So basically red Einherjar. Oh yeah, and in Warhammer Fantasy, he has Valkyries. And, if you've taken a look at the character sheet for Warhammer Fantasy, you will see that the Warriors of Chaos are indeed, Vikings.
- Additionally, some sources of Norse folklore say that as Odin was god of war, killing a combatant in battle was also like giving him a sacrifice. Khorne has a similar policy, don't know if you've noticed.
- Except, again, Odin was also a god of magic in Norse myth, and Khorne hates magic. Yes, there are some aspects of Khorne that were inspired by Odin. Especially some his characteristics in Fantasy Battles, as opposed to 40K, which is the subject here. And some of the traits you are ascribing to Odin are typical of war-gods in many mythoi. And even if you are right, Odin also had a fertility aspect. If Khorne is modeled on Odin, then it follows that Khorne also has a fertility aspect.
- Nope. Berserker rage and ferocity is a thing almost solely unique to Odin; in fact, he was the berserkr's patron, and his prior incarnation of Wodanaz in continental Germanic paganism was solely a war-god/death-god, the magic aspects were less prevalent then. Additionally, back in the old Realms of Chaos armybook from 1994, as I recall, the Khorne-worshiping Norscan tribes in Fantasy believe that Khorne walked amongst the lands and taught men the secrets of steel and the art of war that they might kill each other and feed his power. In certain bits of Norse folklore, Odin taught the secrets of steel and the art of war to men that they might kill each other and end up in Valhall and be his army at Ragnarok. But let's forget about Fantasy for a moment and look at the Black Legion supplement for CSM. Abaddon kills a bunch of Berserkers for offending him, and makes a point of cutting off their arms and legs, thus robbing their ability to fight on in Khorne's realm and thus making them 'unworthy for a place at Khorne's table'. Sounds like Valhall, right? Especially considering Norsemen believed it deeply offensive to cut off a man's hands when he was dead, afterall how can he grip a sword and shield in Valhall without them? Once again, Odin has very close association with wolves, in both continental and Norse mythology. Khorne also is very closely related to wolves, he was described as having the head of a wolf in older 40K material (and continued to have a wolf's head in Fantasy), his Flesh-hounds are explicitly described as lupine in aspect.
- Again, even if you are right that Khorne is based solely on Odin and no other historical war-gods, it does not matter, because Odin was also a fertility god. He was called the "All-Father" for crying out loud. He was also married to Frigga, Norse goddess of motherhood and childbirth.
- On an separate note, Khorne isn't outright against magic, so much as he is against one particular usage of it — using it to fight battles. Magic as a weapon of war is essentially one of trickery that depends on misdirecting the enemy or destroying him with powers that aren't your own. Hence, they are considered dishonourable. If Khorne was against all forms of magic, he wouldn't allow his followers in Fantasy and 40K to use Daemon Weapons, Chaos Weapons or arcane talismans like Brass Collars. All of these are magical in nature. Khorne's distaste of magic is dishonourable is fairly in line with how medieval Scandinavians perceived Seidr, a magical lore of divination, but also of cursing. It depended on trickery, and thus was considered dishonourable and contrary to the open, valorous and brave way men in medieval Scandinavia were to conduct themselves. Men who used Seidr were branded as being unmanly and were ostracized from society, though they did exist.
- Slaanesh doesn't have a male or female aspect. It appears in whatever form the viewer finds pleasing. Therefore, it is both and neither at the same time. With neither being distinct from each other. In fact, in older fluff, Slaanesh was described as being a man on one side and a woman on the other. Though nowadays, it is described as being androgynous. That is, a synthesis of male and female. The Eldar referring to Slaanesh as female, yet the Imperium (do they even refer to the gods with masculine or feminine pronouns?) calling it a man may simply be due to one or the other being more aesthetically pleasing to them. Slaaneshi worshipers don't even put separate aspects to Slaanesh on a gender level. They refer to it by whatever pronouns they find pleasing.
- 6E explains that the reason he's been alive for so long is because his Dawn Blade actually has some mystical properties that add the lifespan of the anything he kills to his own. The idea of his lineage, though, may also explain how he gained some of his incredible skill to the point of learning from the legendary Commander Puretide.
- Ending #1: The High Lords of Terra either break up, or support the Ecclesiarchy. The Sisters use religion to push the bulk of the Guard and Navy into joining them. After a long and bloody struggle, they manage to reduce the defences of Terra and Macragge. The Space Marines are abolished, and the Sisters of Battle fill in their role. Most likely, the Ecclesiarch will become the supreme dictator of the Imperium. The end result is an Imperium that is actually more centralized, united, totalitarian and oppressive against all heretics and mutants, with high levels of Inquisitorial surveillance and more and more worlds now ruled directly by the Ecclesiarchy.
- Ending #2: The High Lords of Terra unite against the Ecclesiarchy. They bring in the Guard and, more importantly, the Navy. Without access to a proper fleet of their own, the Sisters of Battle are easily defeated. The Decree Passive is modified to prohibit the Ecclesiarchy from ever maintaining forces under arms. A new Space Marine unit like the Grey Knights is set up to fill in the still-needed role of Ordo Hereticus shock troops. The Imperium is largely similar to its prewar state, but with a weakened Ecclesiarchy.
- Ending #3: The High Lords of Terra break up, and most flee Sol. The Sisters manage to cajole enough of the Navy to support them to match the Astartes fleets, but they end up doing all of the fighting. The struggle goes on for centuries. Meanwhile, the Imperial Guard finds itself saddled with sole responsibility for defending the Imperium from outside threats. They too expand. Entire regiments of Stormtroopers are raised to fill the role of elite soldiers. Without the central authority of Terra, the planetary governments set up a temporary Administratum, ruled by representatives from each world. Strapped for manpower and resources, they begin a campaign to capture worlds that provide fewer troops than they can, such as feral worlds. Then they move against the lightly defended Astartes homeworlds. When the war finally ends, the tired and depleted victor attacks the Guard, either for failing to assist them (if the Sisters win) or for attacking their homeworlds (if the Marines win). Either way, it is the Imperial Guard that emerges victorious. The High Lords of Terra are abolished, and a legislature established. While still calling itself the Imperium of Man, in practice, it is now The Federation.
- My money goes on Ending 1 or 2, as they're both the most shit ones and make the least amount of changes. Though perhaps there could be a "fourth option" that sees the formation of the familiar Imperium of Man, headed by the Ecclesiarchy, and a new Federation of Man formed out of the replacement for the High Lords, thus allowing for more factions and more chances to sell new models.
- Ending # 4: the Lords of Terra break up, and the Inquisition gets fed up with the mess. As everyone's distracted, the Inquisition manages to revive the Emperor (first they sacrifice all the Sensei to him to heal his body. If that doesn't work, they try with the God Incarnate proposed by the Thorians to give him a new host body. If that doesn't work, they just switch off the Golden Throne, leading to the Emperor to be reborn as the Star Child). Whatever the means, the Emperor is back, shows to Chaos why their Gods called him Anathema by slaughtering them all and mind-raping everyone loyal to Chaos Marines into serving him (including the Dark Eldar), returns to Earth with all the Primarchs (everyone but Roboute Gulliman and two very smug Alpharius and Omegon terrified of his new power), and the civil war stops as soon as he orders it. Then he offers the Xenos to swear fealty to him or die. Then he accidentally kills all of the Primarchs with an heart attack by apologizing to Lorgar and saying he was less wrong than him about the Imperial Cult due the discovery of the Chaos God of Atheism (he had already apologized for some of his stupider and crueler decisions, but the one about the religion was just too shocking), and has to resuscitate them again while wondering if they had an heart attack for the apology or for the mind-boggling absurdity of Necoho's existance.
- Perhaps the Emperor is said Chaos God of Atheism?
However, the Horus Heresy novels share with us the former existence of the Interex, a diplomatic alliance of human and aliens that had no religion of any kind, but which nonetheless was a highly effective enemy of Chaos (or Kaos, as they called it). No Interex was ever corrupted, or at least it was far less common than amongst the Imperium. Why? Because they educated their population against Kaos. They made sure that every man, woman and child was taught the reality of Kaos — what it wants, how it operates, what it can and will do, and why it's not a good idea to get mixed up with it. Thusly, every Interex member knew better than to listen to the blandishments of daemons. Compare this to the present-day Imperium, where even though theocracy is law and blind faith the highest of virtues, even the Space Marines, entities who have been effectively Mind Raped to reach inhuman levels of faith, are corrupted on a daily basis. Or to the Imperium under the Emperor, which got the completely wrong end of the stick by pursuing ignorance and 'rationalistic' antitheism, meaning nobody knew the first thing about the ways of daemons.
Indeed, one could argue that the Imperial cult — and especially its promotion of ignorance as a virtue — is responsible for the high rates of corruption amongst the Imperium. The Imperial Cult pays lip service to the Emperor, but through its genocides and stagnation worship Chaos (especially Khorne and Nurgle), whilst fostering an environment that invites prayer to Slaanesh and Tzeentch (for escape from the drudgeries of everyday life). Preachers rant about avoiding Chaos, but never really explain why, so it just comes off as more tempting to those inclined to its blandishments or sceptical of the Imperial Cult. In a vast number of cases, corrupted individuals didn't even realise they were being corrupted until it was too late, simply because they didn't know enough about Chaos to recognize it before they were already staining themselves with it.
- The Emperor remains ambiguous because he's shutting himself off from the world.
- As each chapter goes, Warhammer 40K is getting suckier and there's nobody you can route for(whether that's done well is up for you to debate) because the Emperor is getting more and more depressed.
- The writers of the codex are plotting down the Emperor's revisions.
- The Imperium is still a Church Militant with some Fantastic Racism, but to the extent of the Middle Ages instead of the stereotype we take for it up to eleven. The Emperor was already rather racist, and has taken this to new extremes due to his Sanity Slippage. The Space Marines are practically Mary Sues because the Emperor isn't modest, especially with all that worship going to his head.
- The Chaos Gods were always crazy and dangerous, but they've become far worse because the Emperor in giving them the Ron the Death Eater treatment.
- The Eldar are demonized because they're rivals to humanity, and like humanity will screw over other species for self-defence. On the flip side, the Orks are treated as Laughably Evil because the Emperor has both gone Laughing Mad and is desperately trying to find a reason for going on. The Necrons aren't any better or worse, but they're horrific fates are an exaggeration due to their can and the Emperor wanting a symbol of his own Fate Worse than Death. The Dark Eldar, though? Right on the mark.
- The Tau and Tyranids do not exist, and represent the Emperor's wish fulfilment. For the Tau, they are the embodiment of his optimism, hence why they are treated as the one good faction in a galaxy rotten to the core. The reveal of them being Nazi Commies in Space? The Emperor has gone beyond the point of optimism. The Tyranids are the Emperor's Death Seeker tendencies-they want to kill and devour everything in much of the same way the Emperor wants to finally break down and die.
- The passage of time is slowing down because the Golden Throne which has sustained the Emperor for these past 11,000 years is finally breaking down. The Emperor is dying, and as he gets closer to the Mercy Kill he so desperately craves and needs his perception of time slows down. The Starchild theory? The Emperor's last ember of hope, however false it way be, that instead of sweet oblivion he will get a Heaven of becoming the messianic figure he set out to become for mankind long, long ago.
- Ciaphas Cain? He's actually the hero he claims to be, but is made a Fake Ultimate Hero by the Emperor because he no longer believes optimistic things like "heroes" exist.
In summation, Warhammer 40K is the tale of a once great man who's completely broken down, metaphorically taking the entire universe with him to the Neitzchian abyss. In the Darkness of the Far Future, There Can Be Peace. There Can Be Respite. But for The Emperor of Mankind, There Can Only Be War.
- ...This is easily the most heart-breaking thing I've ever read.
- Why would each fleet need to be a different hivemind? They fight to improve their gene pool, the successful fleet takes what genes they found useful from the other fleet and eliminates the genes that seemed to hold them back. The result is two new fleets with the best genes of the previous two. So basically, eating one another is the Tyranid equivalent of sex.
Of course, not all las weapons are capable of doing so: las-locks are made by people too primitive to manage this and are single-shot, lascannons exhaust the power pack with a single shot so the trick isn't practical for those, and the Orks just don't care. Eldar lasers, on the other hand, can all do the same trick, but, being more energy efficient than their Imperial equivalents, take more time to charge enough for a shot.
What's worse? Since the facility where the cuttings were done occured near the North where the Aurora was located (the same place where Lord Asriel committed intercision on Lyra's friend Roger to open a window to a parallel world), the massive chaotic energies from the intercissions warped the Aurora until it created the Immaterium, leading directly to the Dark Age of Humanity. In order to stop the madness and mutations, the Magisterium (now the Imperium) took the remaining humans and sliced away their daemons as well using the much less traumatic Silver Guillotine. The only evidence of the bond they once had are the Psyker's link to the warp, where their daemons are.
The original severed Daemons, on the other hand, gained power from the chaos they created and took refuge in the newly created Immaterium, eventually manifesting into the first Chaos Gods. Them and their Chaotic brethren's attempts to merge the material realm with the immaterium is born out of a long-forgotten tragic desire to reunify with the owners they have long lost. While this was happening, the original severed humans, made empty by their intercisions, combined their remaining souls and became the Emperor who is now fighting a fruitless battle with his own soul. It is also why the world in Warhammer 40000 seems so different from our own, because it's really Lyra's world in a parallel universe.
The Emperor knows his physical body will soon die, and that his death will be the signal for Abaddons forces to pour out from the deamon worlds and rip the imperium to pieces. His solution? Lure an unstoppable enemy in by using his powers over the warp. His death will snuff out the Astronomican, causing the Tyranids to turn to the nearest massive source of psychic energy, the Eye of Terror. The forces of Chaos will charge on a black crusade only to be trapped battling the entirety of the Tyranid fleet, meaning they are too distracted to break out onto Terra. The Tyranids on the other hand will get very little, if any, usable biomass from Deamons, mutants and rotted Nurgle followers, thus barely being compensated by what little they do gain from the rest. Both sides find themselves slowly grinding each other down to a size that will easily be destroyed when the Emperor is reincarnated and resumes the great crusade, destroying them both once and for all.
- When Craftworld (or Dark) Eldar die, their souls are consumed by Slaneesh because she is still connectied to them. But what if the Eldar could transfer, or even sever, that connection by worshipping a different Chaos God? The Emperor is a whole lot better than any of the Four. if the Eldar could change things around so that he gets their souls, then they would probably not get eaten and might even end up with a halfway decent afterlife.
- Additional proviso: Imagine using Eldar soulstones to fuel the Astronomican. Eldar are much more potent psykers than humans, they could probably sustain the strain indefinitely.
- Just as when anyone feels rage it feeds Khorne and when anyone feels ambition it feeds Tzeenteech, when anyone feels loyalty it feeds the God-Emperor. No direct evidence for this, but Loyalty is one of the few big emotions that nobody is currently claiming, and it certainly fits the God-Emperor's nature.
- The God-Emperor collected enough belief to ascend millennia ago, it's just that he's been busy fighting the main strength of all four Chaos Gods ever since, so he hasn't been able to spare the focus to really tell anyone. The corpse on the Golden Throne is just an Empty Shell, kept alive only by Imperial technology and with no more connection to the God-Emperor than any other bit of matter.
- We know they fought in the Rangdan Xenocides, and this is where atleast 1 of the legions was lost. (info in the Regimental Standard and Horus Heresy Book Seven - Inferno)
- We know that atleast 1 of them had a serious mutation. (info from Fear to Tread)
- We know that the Space Wolves also took part later in the Rangdan Xenocides. (info from Scions of the Emperor (Anthology) — First Legion)
- All the Primarchs had atleast 1 counterpart with similar abilities (Rogal Dorn - Perturabo, Corvus Corax — Konrad Kurze, Lion El Johnson — Alpharius Omegon, etc.) except Magnus the Red, making it likely that one of the lost Legions was a legion of Psykers similar to the Thousand Sons. The Thousand Sons were known to suffer the mutation of the flesh change, tho it was atleast manageable.
