The four kids represent four areas of knowledge; Nature, Technology, Magic and the Supernatural.
- John leans toward Supernatural, as evidenced by his interest in the paranormal.
- Rose leans toward Magic, as evidenced by her creative writing.
- Dave leans toward Technology, as evidenced by his choice of instruments and varied blogs.
- Jade leans toward Nature, as evidenced by her gardening.
- Note that each of them has knowledge of another field except Dave who is exclusively technological.
- This can be slightly backed up by their musical instruments; John and Rose play classical instruments while Dave and Jade play relatively newer instruments.
- At some point, a Dave will appear just in time to save another character, sacrificing his own life in the process. Main Dave will assure them that he was from a doomed timeline, and everyone will go along their merry way. Then, at the end of the comic when the heroes have won and the happy ending seems imminent, Dave will apologize for lying to the others before saying his farewells and traveling back in time to become that Dave.
John's Denizen, Typheus, wields a broken sword with wind powers
Since Dave's Denizen, Hephaestus, had a time-stopping hammer (John's Abstratus with Dave's power), Typheus will have the reverse. Similarly, Cetus and Echidna will have a Light Gun and Space Needles
- It's been revealed that the most powerful needleKind weapon are the Quills of Echidna, making this theory somewhat more likely.
- However given the current situation, it's ambiguous if he'll be shown.
- And the question does arise of how exactly he manages to use it period, having no hands.
- What makes you so sure he doesn't have hands? The kids aren't shown with arms half the time. Hephaestus isn't shown with arms on Dave's browser, but he wields the hammer. The worm that looks like John's browser was revealed to be one of his minions, not actually him, and Vriska's reaction to his appearance suggests something more dreadful.
See the page where John ascends to the God Tier: JOHN. RISE UP.
The music playing there is called 'Savior of the Waking World', which obviously refers to John. He dies on his planet and is resurrected as the Savior in Heaven. Moreover, his death was caused by the betrayal of one of the twelve trolls, who represent the apostles. Vriska is therefore Judas Iscariot: note how 'Isca' sounds like 'Vriska' and 'Scariot' sounds like 'Serket.' There are four kids, representing the four Gospels. Being the Son of God, John's aspect as the Heir is suddenly explained: he's the heir to the Kingdom of Heaven. John is also referred to as 'son' by his father. Whether this means that Dad is God is up for debate. The identity of the Holy Spirit is also unclear, but it's probably Wayward Vagabond. Because obviously Jesus flies around Heaven with the Holy Spirit in a car shortly after his Ascension.
The Kids survive the scratch.
Act 6 opens with a repeat of Act 1, up to the bit where it pans around and Homestuck comes up (ie, the second flash), whereupon Beta!John looks up and sees God Tiered Alpha!John chilling in the air.
- Jossed, the Kids won't go to Earth. A similar scene could play out, but only in the Medium, or involving characters that aren't the kids we're familiar with.
- Now plausible, given John and Jade's means of escape.
- We'll just have to see if this plays out in some fashion in the Medium.
Dave will inherit Lil'Cal.
The Kids will meet the Trolls, Dave will claim the repaired Cal and master the Puppetkind abstractus in honor of his Bro.
- Jossed? Alpha Bro has him at the moment.
- We don't know if that's the same Cal, though. It could be a different Cal for all we know.
Dave actually is gay.
No real evidence, but other than his personality (and remember that he was originally a hipster), is there any real evidence he isn't, either? When Bro talked about his "gay butt," he wasn't just being insulting, and when he said he "loved" John, he did mean it in that way.
- More then likely its basically platonic love such as found between friends. Extrapolating on his loved comment like this is as logical as suggesting Dave loved Rose given how much he flipped out when Rose let slip she would sacrifice herself, (right before mentioning it was her dream self she'd sacrifice) in order to destroy the green sun. There has been overall very little interaction between John and Dave in comparison to other characters to suggest romantic possibilities. Its far more likely that Dave relies alot on his friend for emotional support (if it turns out Bro has been abusive to him all his life) rather than romantic interest.
- He's also made vaguely romantic overtones to Jade. There's a big difference between being bros and being gay.
- http://www.mspaintadventures.com/scratch.php?s=6&p=005778. That is all.
- Given how Rose and Dave routinely trade pithy jibes about eachother's personal lives in these Message Logs, this is best taken with a grain of salt.
- Hints into Dave's fears fill Sweet Bro and Hella Jeff, which makes sense because the things people tend to find the funniest are the ones that make them uncomfortable. Amongst the things that show up a lot are homophobic language and things that can be seen as gay being followed by comments of how bad they are. From this we can at least conclude he's afraid that he might be gay.
Jade will be the one to kill Bec Noir
- Due to Jack inheriting Bec's love for Jade, when it comes down to it, he won't be able to kill her. If the Green Sun is destroyed, then he won't be able to teleport away. Jade, finally accepting that she has to DO something, will try and bring out Bec's personality - the trusting, caring good dog that loves his owner - and kill him.
- Hinted at by Andrew but probably unlikely; Jade has no way of getting to the Troll's session that we know of and Noir survives long enough to get there.
- As of [S] Cascade, not out of the realm of possibility.
Which is exactly why his timeline ends at the part where he gets his arms out of the magic chest. He died due to someone (or some others') meteor(s) shortly after.
Rose's message to John
Rose wanted Dave to give a message to John
before heading off on what she assumed would be a suicide mission - but she got interrupted by the Draconian Dignitary before she could say it. Oh boy
are there a bunch of different possibilities for this. A simple "Thanks" or "Sorry"? An Interrupted Declaration of Love
(or maybe, since making Dave feel uncomfortable is a hobby of Rose's anyway
, a kiss)? Maybe an subversion, aversion or inversion of it (e.g. "I am not a heterosexual" to set up the Rose / Kanaya shippers instead of the John / Rose ones)?
Certainly whatever it was, Rose ended up not
dying, and in fact went godtier. She can give the message to John herself. If she still wants to.
John will grow a mustache.
Between Grandpa Harley and Poppop Crocker, he's clearly genetically predisposed to it.
- Considering Poppop Crocker is him, this is most likely confirmed. Unless you mean within the story...
During the three-year journey, John will acquire his Fraymotifs.
John never really got the chance to buy them before, but now he has lots of time and access to his planet. Since Jade appears to know about them,
she can explain them to him (and also, us). We don't know if Dave ever paid him back, but now that he's God Tier, he may not even need Boondollars any more.
At some important point, Dave will time-freeze Noir the way Aradia did.
Mostly because it makes sense for him to be able to do so, and it would provide an opportunity for a good one-liner or SBaHJ reference.
- This is looking more doubtful now that we know more about how class affects everyone.
Dave will kill Lord English.
Based solely on the fact that his next god tier title is Pimpslayer.
- Well, he now has a sword capable of hurting him...
John has, or will acquire, the power to bring people back from the dead.
As the Heir of Breath, John seems to be the odd one out of the God-tiered kids. Everyone else gets fancy stuff like Time and Space- does John really just get power over wind? John will actually turn out to be able to "give people breath", or bring them back to life. This will be incredibly dramatic when it happens.
- Seems like that might step on the toes of the Maid of Life's area of influence.
- At any rate, I'm not sure why people are so down on John's powers. Being a storm god is pretty dang cool.
The kids will not be able to breed the Genesis Frog due to the Scratch.
Jade required a very specific white frog back on Earth to finish breeding Bilious Slick, right? So she finishes creating a Genesis Tadpole using the genetic sequences of the white frog, but Courtyard Droll's intervention sent the tadpole careening into the Forge. Normally I'd think "That's fine, she can just make another," but then I remember that Beta Earth is completely destroyed
, so Jade probably can't go back and retrieve the genetic sequences of the white frog. There's no indication that a white frog might even exist in the Alpha universe given that everything else is so screwed up, much less that anyone- even Echidna, as she hasn't entered the Alpha universe yet- even knows where to look for it.
- Given that Roxy and Jake are able to appearify and sendificate objects between the universes, it might be possible to reconnect with the Beta session through them.
- Or Dave's time weirdness can help reverse the fall. Then again we also don't even know if the tadpole can survive it and the importance of the Forge. It's genuinely possible that is supposed to happen.
- Jossed. It is safe and sound and being guarded by Echidna.
Dave was an antisocial shut-in before Sburb
All the kids at his school hated him, partly because of his hipster antics, partly because they knew about Bro's smuppet empire. John, Rose and Jade were his only friends.
- By extension, the other three kids were not particularly well-liked either; Jade was isolated, John was laughed at, and Rose was either homeschooled or inched slowly away from. Literally their entire social lives consisted of the Internet. Dave just had the worst of it.
- it's hard to thank you enough for your friendship over the years. heck, if it weren't for you i wouldn't even have met rose and dave, so that is like, THREE TIMES the friendship! that is almost like, TOO MUCH FRIENDSHIP. Something about that does seem to suggest John didn't exactly have much in the way of friendship offline.
- It's even possible this is a critical part of the game, that players have little contact with non-players. Certainly Scratch's changes to Alternia seem to have included isolating the juvenile trolls from the adults, their ancestors, and each other.
Think about it: Lords (and ladies) are generally thought of as "people of quality". SORD, meanwhile, is incredibly shitty - and it's that property which will spell Lord English's doom.
Karkat was worried about him becoming so confident about his ability to not die that he'd go off and do something heroic that would get him killed, and A6I2 proved he's certainly still willing to do so if the opportunity arises.
- Doc Scratch seemingly supports this on this page. Since it was posted more than four months after Tavros' death, it's unlikely to be a case of Exact Words in relation to "Heroes of Breath".
The Striders and, by extension, Rose Lalonde are related to Sparda
think about it, the striders are renowned for being really badass, Dante is really badass. The odd eye colours that the Striders have could hint to them not being entirely human. Rose has a "Devil Form" which has been seen and the Striders abilities are way above those of normal humans. The only thing separating Dave's Bro from Dante is that when Bro gets impaled through the chest by Bec Noir, he doesn't come back
I mean come on, they even have the same hair colour!
- Headcanon now. This is just awesome beyond belief. Their genes apparently caused themselves, which makes no sense, so they had to come from somewhere, and this somewhere is Dante's family tree.
Homestuck, at least to this troper, seems like it will have a Bittersweet Ending
. one way this could happen is if one of the beta kids, the first protagonists we really got to know well, died. Of course, this could be any
of the four kids, right? Wrong. According to Doc Scratch, the alpha timeline would not allow the story to end with our human hero of Breath or for our Knight(s) and Seer(s) to stay cadavers. This only leaves one kid; Jade.
- Well, there are the new kids, from the alpha universe. But Jade still seems most likely, due to her relation with Bec Noir. More than likely, she'd have to kill him, and while doing so, something would go wrong.
- The Knight and Seer clearly referred to Karkat and Terezi, and in all of their cases it's possible to interpret them as the alpha timeline not allowing them to die at this point in time, in an anticlimax, before even the Critical Moment. Dying during the climax, as in the WMG above? Still entirely possible.
- Confirmed, in a sense - Aranea kills her and abuses the system of the game to register the event as a Karmic Death, ending her immortality.
Why Jadesprite thought she failed horribly
- All dead selves show up in dream bubbles, including alternate timelines and etc. Jade never realized that the others were still alive because she was Dream Jade, notorious for being incredibly derpy and forgetting about basic things like Sburb.
- You would think those rubberbands on Jade/Dream!Jade->Jadesprite would have been helpful for her remebering that she hadn't failed.
- Dream!Jade apparently took hers off when she took the White Queen's ring. Out of canon though, Andrew forgot about the rubberbands constantly and had to go back and edit panels a lot which is why he had Jade take them off.
The Trolls Dream-Jade was friends with before being resurrected as Jadesprite were the Pre-Scratch Trolls
page, Dog-Tier Jade discusses her Jadesprite memories. In the discussion, she says the trolls she met in the Dream bubbles weren't the trolls they knew. Who are the only other trolls who have had access to the Incipisphere and hence the Furthest Ring? The Pre-Scratch Ancestors. Coincidentally, this would also imply the Mystery Troll Girl is Pre-Scratch Mindfang, and the Punk Troll Girl is the Pre-Scratch Condesce, as they are encountered within dream bubbles.
- Last sentence confirmed.
- It's basically completely confirmed at this point but there hasn't been any direct evidence to seal the deal.
It's not just the art style and Rule of Cool
, Dave actually is
This would also provide another explanation for why he's always seen wearing shades: People with Albinism have a sensitivity to sunlight and often use shades to protect their eyes. Of course that means being in the medium of Heat and Clockwork could be generally problematic.
- It has been confirmed that he has red eyes, which are - in real life - extremely light-sensitive. As for complexion, Word of God says the kids are a-racial.
- Being an albino would actually enable him to be any possible race; otherwise, how many non-caucasian people with blond/white hair have you seen? I doubt Dave or Dirk dye it. The same, coincidentally, goes for pink-eyed Roxy and possibly for violet-eyed Rose: the only way for their hair/eye colors to make sense is for them to be albino. that it's strictly necessary for it to make sense...
The Kids all have two aspects
- Comparing the A1 and A2 sessions, we can see that none of the elements changed between parent and child. The A1 Handmaid was the X of Time, and her mother Aradia was the Maid of Time in the A2 session. However, the B sessions have a difference. Dirk and Roxy (Heart and Void) are the parents of Dave and Rose (Time and Light), and etc. There's also weirdness associated with the B1 Kids, which may hint to their additional powers.
- Dave would be the Knight of Time and Heart. His half-awake dreamself on Derse hasn't ever been explained very well, and he has depression issues about his sense of self, like a Hero of Heart. Davesprite also could represent a Fragment.
- Rose would be the Seer of Light and Void. In addition to her blacking out in Act 5, this also has a parallel in Rose's ongoing Light Is Not Good / Dark Is Not Evil deal. Void is the absence of knowledge and Nyx is associated with purple, while Light is the understanding of probablities (for Rose at least), and is associated with gold. Purple and Gold mimics Derse and Prospit.
- Jade would be the Witch of Space and Life. Space and Life are already connected in the idea of a Genesis Frog, and Jade is also doubly immortal, which is the main property Jane has shown with her Life abilities.
- John would be the Heir of Breath and Hope. Many have claimed that John Can't Catch Up due to the potency of the other Kids' abilities, and Hope is a very ambiguous and potent element. It also has even more parallels to a Messianic Archetype, as Hope is associated with angelic motifs.
- Jossed by how the Scratch works. The Trolls were identical in order to keep Time and Space players in each session, but the Post-Scratch Session already "knows" the Pre-Scratch kids are coming.
- Not Jossed: There's no precedent for the Post-Scratch Session "knowing" the Pre-Scratch Kids are coming, because said arrival is essentially unique amongst all the sessions in Paradox Space! That's the root of the WMG in fact.
- Completely and totally wrong. Jane's planet is covered in ancient messages left by the Consorts saying that the Nobles (Jane's Party) will be assisted by divine intervention, and the coming of the Gods.
- You misunderstand. The theory isn't Jossed by the fact that the Post-Scratch session knows the players are coming. The theory arises in that no other session has ever had players from another session join it. That uniqueness is the root of the WMG. The WMG then speculates the consequences of that event, and suggests additional aspects are one result of the uniqueness of the Post-Scratch session. If an ordinary session has identical aspects between Ancestors and Heroes, then the abnormal Human Sessions, where the aspects differ between parents and children, that might result in unexpected abilities manifesting as well. Admittedly it would have helped to have that explained in the theory, but I was going for a simple approach to the idea.
- I understood that. I just disagree with it because it's inelegant, unsupported, and in many ways kind of spits in the face of what we're already told. We know that Skaia accounts for things before it happens. We also know that it anticipated post- and pre-Scratch players. To such a degree that Dirk's Bro and Roxy's Mom have Time and Light powers, and Dirk's Bro and Jade's Grandpa demonstrate implications of Heart and Hope in hindsight. But there is not a damn thing, anywhere, suggesting that Jade has Life, John has Hope, Jane has Wind, Dirk has Time, or anything like that. Infact, Rose even explicitly states that they NEED to go to the Post-Scratch session, since otherwise there will be no Time or Space players. If your dual-Aspect theory were to have any merit at all, then Rose wouldn't of been able to make this statement.
- There is plenty of half-evidence that hints at their abilities being more complicated, which was referenced above. How can Rose black out a session? Corrupted abilities haven't been explained all that well either frankly! Is it too much of a coincidence that in Rose's ongoing Dark Is Not Evil / Light Is Not Good thing that her "corrupted" abilities happened to exactly mimic a Hero of Void? Why was Dave's dreamself half awake? Nobody else's dreamself has been shown to be half awake, though Dirk echoes it. And again, you misunderstand. This wouldn't apply in reverse at all; I'm not trying to say Jane or Dirk have abilities they haven't displayed. Because of that, your insistence on Rose's comments is irrelevant because I'm agreeing with you on that. Besides, the insistence on canonical sessions is somewhat misguided; both the Post-Scratch Human Session and the Cherub session are incredibly bizarre even by Sburb's standards, and already have been shown to differ wildly from the typical session. Clearly, Hussie is willing to play fast and loose with his own established rules. And as an aside, though I can see you disagree with the theory, please leave personal attacks on the side. Unless you have some sort of canonical evidence disproving the theory, it's not Jossed because you don't like it.
- Pardon? I didn't see the disagreeing guy make any personal attacks on anyone. Dave's dream-self being awake, however, has been insinuated to be a result of Dirk's influence, since he's harassed by Lil' Cal in his 'dreams'. And Rose was corrupted by Horrorterrors, that's all kinds of weird-prompting. Rose was stated to have left her Myth Arc, so whatever happened there, it's not what she's 'supposed' to be doing.
- One rarely or impartially disagrees with a theory by calling it inelegant or spitting in the face of canon, and while I may be reading into it too much, it reads very angrily. With that said however I'm probably being oversensitive. Now, Dave's dreamself hasn't actually been suggested to be have been harassed by Lil' Cal. A formspring response (or perhaps fanon, my memory fades), once said that Lil Cal is actually not sentient, and his actions in Dave's dream tower were due to Dave subconsciously moving him, because Dave thought he was sentient. Dirk however couldn't have had any influence in the matter one way or the other, save genetically. Rose's corruption is only stated as such by Doc Scratch and herself, and Doc Scratch is a Manipulative Bastard.
- On the matter of Lil' Cal, Dirk/Dave's Bro did technically have a hand in it, since his treatment of Dave with Lil' Cal is what led to him thinking it was sentient in the first place. If some unknown quirk of the Heart aspect caused Dave's subconscious to move the puppet and essentially keep him always awake, who knows.
- I'd say the theory is pretty elegant, and in addition to what's already said, there's also Dirk's Thanatos Gambit at the start of the session. It involved at least two time jumps, must have been incredibly difficult (and require enormous balls) to orchestrate, and would make perfect sense for someone with unmanifested powers of Time. It's true that Jane doesn't exactly manifest powers of Space as of yet, and neither is Jake blowing winds around, and Roxy doesn't exactly seem to be especially lucky or knowledgeable (except for what results from the whole living in the future thing), but they have only just reached their God Tiers. Judging by the troll session, it's not necessary and probably not common for all players to reach God Tiers / master their aspects. Karkat hasn't manifested any power yet, and Kanaya, despite being "a more magical witch", hasn't shown any abilities beyond being a rainbow drinker and good with lipstick. So it seems reasonable to assume that the Post-Scratch kids, not having even started the normal game for half a year, haven't had the opportunity to discover their "secondary" aspects.
Davesprite will eventually merge with main Dave.
This is kind of a weird one. The Quest Beds on the kids' planets are presumably still intact, but failing this we've seen from [S] Caliborn: Enter that they exist in the dream bubbles, and I wouldn't put it past Hussie to make them functional. Either way, at some point Davesprite will die on a Quest Bed. In a reverse of how Jade merged with Jadesprite when ascending, Davesprite will then merge with the only existing version of his dream self: main-timeline Dave. Because of this, Dave will gain Davesprite's memories, similarly to how Rose retains doomed Rose's memories of Davesprite's timeline. The ultimate result? Bird Tier Dave.
- Not to mention the strength of a doubly-god tiered Knight of Time. It would surely be over some ridiculously large number like 9000 for instance.
Dave will attempt to make Rose uncomfortable about her sexuality.
We've seen in the past how Rose has attempted to make Dave uncomfortable about his sexuality, and the recent updates imply Rose might reciprocate Kanaya's feelings towards her. I doubt Dave would pass up an opportunity to try to turn the tables, even if it doesn't work. And if it doesn't, well, Girl-on-Girl Is Hot
(even when one of them is kinda-sorta your sister).
- Jossed. Kanaya and Rose are in a relationship, and Dave doesn't seem to disprove of it or find it hot.
Since John transported to Caliborn's timeline, he will somehow kill Caliborn and cause a paradox, thus preventing English's existence.
Think about it. Since John was sucked into English's weakness, this is only possible. Plus, Caliborn/English is not immortal in the timeline John was sent to, thus Caliborn CAN die, here. Caliborn can be killed since his sister, Calliope was stabbed to death by Jack. So John can possibly kill Caliborn in his session.
- Jossed. Cans punched John out of the session.
- That's not how Cans' powers work. He punches people through time, not space; he can't punch someone out of the session. And, indeed, John reappeared later in Caliborn's timeline.
Jade will join Meenah's ghost army
She's dead, she'll want to still be involved, and by joining somebody with the same powerset as The Condesce, she ensures that in a worst-case scenario, Meenah might be able to nullify (or at least hijack) any reapplication of The Condesce's control.
As a counter to the above, Jade will revive anyway
Although Aranea's cheating at the Heroic/Just clock means it won't be because of God Tier revival, Jade still has all the powers of a First Guardian, among which is immortality.
God Tier Jade will be revived as something more than a God Tier by being placed on the quest bed by Bec Noir
Bec Noir and PM can be seen carrying her body to a quest bed in one of the clouds in the Skaia Ball on Jane's fork as it falls into the lava in act 6 act 6 intermission 2.
John will zap in and save Jade
The scene will be a callback to [S]Descend, with John attempting to shake, and then slap Jade awake before throwing her out the way. From there, there are a few options as to what would happen.
-John would zap away or use the windy thing immediately after.
-John would get hit and die a heroic death.
-John would get hit, but since he's removed from existence, he'll be fine anyway.
Jade's island is technically part of Australia
Or, as the nickname goes, Oz
When you do the flash game here (http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=004979)
we find out by talking to a salamander next to the well in town that when John finally confronts his denizen he will be offered... The Choice. This is written the SAME exact way as Caliborn's choice which was offered to him by HIS denizen. Thus John will choose to sacrifice himself in order to save everyone. I don't really know how this will pan out, especially since the doomed John who went to fight the denizen mentioned that it offered him a choice. Maybe that John is the only one who has to die for good?
- It seems this has already happened with doomed!John. He met a denizen, and the denizen presumably explained that if he gets killed now, eventually Dave from his timeline will go back to alpha and fix things there. Dunno what the other option was, given that the timeline was doomed anyway, due to Dave having prototyped his sprite with Cal, but John chose what he chose.
- Looks like John and Roxy are both going to meet their denizens, so it may just be short time before this theory is proven or shot down...
- Aaand Jossed.
In relation to the above WMG, the timeline where LOWAS exploded is the alpha timeline.
Since troll!Jade has stated that [S] GAME OVER and all events thereon took place in a doomed timeline, John's meeting with Typheus could likely turn out to be the event that Hussie called The Rapture. Plus, Davesprite's a refugee of another doomed timeline, which should mark him for his imminent demise. The Beta session took place across the span of a single day, and Jade claimed that LOWAS exploded shortly after the three year long trip across the Yellow Yard begun.
John and Roxy are going to die pretty soon.
Apparently, their denizens gave them some nonsense about other people feeling the loss they felt if they chose to return to the alpha timeline. I'm pretty sure that's crazy Denizen talk for 'If you go back there you're gonna die, so pick your poison'. And since it seems quite settled they'll zap back into the alpha (after a short break in wherever the hell LOWAS went)...
As for how, I'm betting on one of the various Jack Noirs/Spades Slicks running around the Medium. Why? Because Jack Noir killed Dad Egbert and Mom Lalonde (aka Beta!Roxy), and I doubt Hussie would pass up a chance like that.
- Didn't an alternate timeline version of John die because of his decision? I thought that's what the story alternate timeline Jade told Calliope implied. So, John(s) and Roxy(s) from alternate timeline(s) could die instead.
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