- Jossed: Caliborn indeed uu.
- His aspect is probably Time, considering Calliope's Muse of Space; and we all know what Lord English does to time on a regular basis.
- As stated in A 6 I 3, Caliborn is indeed LE and the Lord of Time. Now, if he's god-tiered or not, it's still somewhat wild speculation.
- If true, the Cairo Overcoat could be the God Tier outfit for a Lord of Time.
- Confirmed: Lord English is an adult and god-tiered uu.
Maybe the Uu session's ectobiology machine glitched, and, instead of producing two offspring grubs from their ancestor/s' paradox slime, it produced a chimera grub with a mixed blood color (black blood? tie-dye christmas blood? Who even the fuck knows) and mixed sex traits. Sburb, realizing it done fucked up, then induced multiple personality disorder in the patchwork trollbaby so that the minimum number of people needed to play Sburb could be achieved.
Time shenanigans via Trollian and sburb-granted time powers will probably need to be liberally used, though, in order to make entering the medium Not Fucking Impossible.
Dreamselves tend to be closer to the individual's personal image of themself (terezi likes being blind and thus her dreamself is blind, while tavros doesn't like being crippled and so his dreamself can walk), so UU and uu's seperate dreamselves could manifest as having the blood color and physical sex that they imagine they would have if they hadn't been merged into a single person at inception. Assuming that the recent Calmasis' Legs panel is more indicative of their blood color than their chat symbols are, UU identifies as a redblood because she is a bluh bluh huge humaboo or some shit.
- Or, given Gamzee already has shown split personality disorder to some extent and many of the other trolls have mental disorders, limebloods are just particularly prone to develop multiple personalities. The whole shenanigans with Chimerism is intriguing but there's no indication that ectobiology machines can even glitch in that way; all shown ones have been pretty reliably fool proof, especially when it comes to making the players and their ancestors. There's more to UU than there seems to be as well, as she told Jake her name would probably best never told, meaning she might outright be someone already existent in the cast (or not a Troll at all) and the brief appearance hints we've seen have all been a deliberate misdirection.
- Besides which, none of this explains why UU said she and uu have different blood colors.
- Feferi made almost no attempts to be nasty, actually. And many of the trolls who tried to be, utterly failed.
- Taking this WMG to an extreme: The Caduceus can represent "deception". The symbol itself is of two snakes encircling a winged staff. It's entirely possible that Jane will go into the Medium by eating an apple, making UU the "snake in the garden". Who was Flanderized into The Devil. In short, UU is the Alpha-equivalent to Doc Scratch, and he's getting around his Villains Never Lie by pulling a prank.
- Karkat turned out to be Troll Jesus. If UU does turn out to be the Anti-Karkat, it makes sense she'd be Troll Satan.
- Alternatively, UU may be Betty Crocker. Perish the thought!
- Re: UU being a really girly male/nongendered person: if this happens there'll be a note about Jane wondering why she thought that (cheers sure are weird!) despite calling UU "an alien girl from Uranus" and UU only noting she's not from Jane's solar system/universe.
- If the scratched session makes the kid's guardians the players, then the troll's ancestors should be the contacts. In that case if UU is in fact Ferferi's ancestor, then the kids should be afraid. Be very, very afraid.
- That's Jossed (by Meenah, who's absolutely nothing like either UU or uu), and based on a misunderstanding anyway: the trolls contacted the pre-Scratch kids because they're the ones who created them (and normally shouldn't contact another session at all). Unless there's a mobius double reach around coming, contact between the post-Scratch kids and pre-Scratch trolls shouldn't be possible, and even if it was it should be the kids contacting the trolls.
- UU's symbol is the caduceus, used by Hermes, the Greek god of thieves and liars who also guides souls to the underworld (although the other wiki uses a symbol that looks like the rod of Asclepius (see below), a healer who could talk to animals thanks to some friendly snakes cleaning his
- Both UU and uu seem to be giving good advice thus far, albeit uu unintentionally so.
- She's researched it as a historian. But these things aren't mutually exclusive.
- uu's comments seem to support this, as they are playing Sburb mostly to escape the incoming Reckoning; unless that is a well understood phenomenon by society and Sburb is widespread and they are simply playing the game together
Also, in their first scene, they're playing "Homestuck" as a text-based adventure game, which could mean that they might not be playing an S-game at all, but communicating to the children through the Text-game.
- Then again, this may be due to Roxy's Void powers meaning this is the best interface for them to use.
- uu has a bit of an association with Dirk at least, as he is the only one uu can stand to talk to.
- Don't forget the snakes! And Echidna (ie, head snake lady) in the Pre-Scratch Troll sessions brought Doc Scratch and English into the Troll Universe, so there's that too.
- UU seemed to change a bit right after the part where Hussie (dressed in clothes resembling what little we've seen of UU) got shot a little bit by LE. And, tying in with the snakes — there's two of them, resembling the duality of LE and DS.
- Cuffs with the symbols of UU and uu on what's probably Calmasis' legs? If Calmasis is an allegorical Lord English or Doc Scratch, this further implies a connection, about which post-Scratch Rose knew.
- Interestingly enough, I didn't think those were Calmasis' legs. They looked too inhuman... too much like the legs of... Lord English.
- Semi-Confirmed. She appears to be the same species as Lord English.
- She's typing on an unknown terminal, which draws inspiration from both Trollian and Exile terminals, and regardless, Sburb technology has a habit of leaking out before the session proper begins (Jade's Lunchtop etc). Also her dialogue indicates that she knows the outcome of the session and the events thereof in a historical context, probably said firsthand from one of the surviving players, before becoming part of the mythology of the resurrected Troll civilization.
- He is nigh impossible to kill, using stable timeloops and fixed timeline to stay alive.
- His name is English (and that isn't even his real name).
- He travels through time and space in a box.
- Since it is confirmed (or as confirmed as anything Homestuck related can be) that Caliborn is Lord English, then this theory is supported even further:
- He may be the last of his kind, and if so, it is because he killed the only other surviving member of his race.
- He wears a bow tie and suspenders.
- His aspect is Time, and his class is implied to be called Lord. Thus, his title would be "Lord of Time".
- uu might simply have future knowledge of the Reckoning.
- Actually, if UU has lime-colored blood, that would match the color of The Felt's membership along with The First Guardians, right? What if UU/uu simply hail from a universe inside the Green Sun, or destroyed by Lord English's conquest?
- Universes are frogs, many of which orbit the Green Sun. There's no evidence that the Green Sun itself is a universe nor a living thing (that would propagate itself via the SBURB creation cycle).
- Seemingly confirmed! Unless there's some weirder than usual time shenanigans involved in their own session, the presence of an intact, building-covered, post-Reckoning meteor seems like good evidence that they are from a planet that's already played once. The mention of "whoever used to live on this planet" might be related to that (i.e. as the reason they no longer do).
- Pimp: If uu has a class we've never seen before, and if he's Lord English's younger self, then it would make sense for him to be the Pimp of Time as it matches the character and follows the one-syllable rule.
- Lord: Compare the Prince class, a similarly active class.
- Bow tie and suspenders. He's got a similar taste in clothing as the eleventh Doctor.
- Confirmed. Who didn't see that one coming?
- Bow tie and suspenders. He's got a similar taste in clothing as the eleventh Doctor.
- Scribe: It's makes a nice counterpart to Muse.
- Since Muse is supposed to be super-duper-passive, uu's class should be super-duper-active.
- Yeah, Scribe doesn't seem all that active.
- It does if you consider that a Scribe is a writer or author, and Hussie's dead now.
- Waste: He claims to be the master of RedHerrings, which could be foreshadowing that he is, in fact, not Lord English, and we're all wasting our time by thinking about it. It would also make sense that Hussie would have a master class.
- King: Again, compare with Prince. It would also continue the chess motif.
- End: Tying in with the fact that he can only enter a universe upon its destruction — the end of time.
- All of these are jossed except Lord.
- Adding to this, the name is taken from Jake. Perhaps even as a... trophy.
- Jake was said to be named after LE, so while that would create a stable time loop it doesn't seem all that likely.
- It would be fun though
- At one point uu gets furious at Jake for stealing his look. Stealing his name for his new title would be decent payback.
- Jake was said to be named after LE, so while that would create a stable time loop it doesn't seem all that likely.
- uu is god tier LE?
- Confirmed.
- Adding to this, the reason why courtships are so violent is because each paired individual is fighting for control. If the male personality wins, they will mate as a male and vice versa.
TT: Minus n is so you don't pair people up with themselves. That wouldn't make sense.
uu: AND WHY THE FuCK NOT??
TT: Well, because...
TT: I don't know.
TT: Maybe you're right. Maybe I was being close-minded about self-pairing. What do I know?
uu: JACK SHIT OBVIOuSLY.
- Core of the theory confirmed. The link to cherub courtship is not quite as predicted.
- And Roxy will fuck her name up and it won't work.
- I love you, whoever you are.
- I think Jake will be the one to do so, myself.
- Knowing Calliope's name is worthless because she is well and truly dead.
- Then why does she say that it won't mean anything to Jane unless she has uu's juju as well?
- It might also have something to do with the fact that uu's nickname for Calliope is "Cal".
- Jossed: Caliborn and Calliope's jujus are both lollipops.
- It's out of respect for his role in defeating him.
- Combining this and the above, uu takes the name Lord English, knowing Dirk's attraction to Jake English. He's hoping to alter himself to better suit Dirk's tastes- or at least get his attention.
- Alternatively, Lil Cal is Calliope's juju, and the points where uu views him are times where uu is chronologically dormant, meaning Lil Cal is unoccupied by Calliope's spirit.
- Jossed.
- Not true by definition, but it appears Caliborn has appropriated Cal as his soul container in a sense.
- Jossed.
- Seemingly jossed, as the death of her dream self was the means of killing her real self.
- Jossed.
- Jossed, it's Caliborn.
- Traditionally, cherubs are said to have four faces.
- And their chat names would be uU and Uu. uu with red blood (Acts 1,2,3,4 Act 5 Act 1, I 1 and 2), Calliope with green blood (Entire act 6), uU with blue (Act 5 Act 1) and Uu with white (Act 7)
- This is stupid.
- And their chat names would be uU and Uu. uu with red blood (Acts 1,2,3,4 Act 5 Act 1, I 1 and 2), Calliope with green blood (Entire act 6), uU with blue (Act 5 Act 1) and Uu with white (Act 7)
- That is an f'ing brilliant theory, but there's just one catch. Lord English is missing his right leg. Calliope chains up their left leg. This means that it's Calliope that would have to saw the leg off to get out, but then again, forcing the victim to "Saw" off their leg seems more in keeping with the movie.
- Not quite, compare this image of Calliope◊ with this image of Lord English◊ and take into account they facing in different directions. If Calliope flips her sprite to match Lord English the cuff with her symbol IS clearly put on the same leg that he is missing, as seen here.
- Confirmed, we see him chewing his right leg off and replacing it with a robotic one.
- This is the most awesomest theory ever.
- Remember the page that shows Calmasis' chained legs? Look where each chain is. Yeah.
- But that's impossible; his adult form is, of course, already here.
- The green skin has been confirmed. However, LE has been shown using a certain white wand. You know. The one Calliope uses.
- Caliborn has green skin as well.
- Could mean something else, but the white magnum/wand that Calliope uses is very similar to Doc Scratch's gun.
- Jossed; she's in the Furthest Ring.
- If we're going with the 'Cal' theme...Callimachus was a Greek poet who famously hated the epic form.
- A bit unrelated- given that it's Roman- but it just hit me that if his title is "Lord" then an emperor's name would fit... and then I realized, Caligula is 8 letters.
- I personally thought it might be Sisyphus. He was a greek king who attempted to cheat death (like the way he cheated in the chess game?). Calmasis would then have a part form uu and a part from UU. Wouldn't know what the 'ma' would stand for though.
- Jossed, all of them. He's called Caliborn, which might be a Shout-Out to Excalibur (aka Caliburn).
- It also recalls Caliban from The Tempest a little — relevant to his "monstrousness" aspect
- Probably Jossed.
- Jossed.
- Jossed.
- This goes well with the theory that Calliope's universe is the one that will eventually be created by the post-scratch kids' session: since it exists thanks to the combined efforts of the red, blue, and green universes, what better color than white?
- Terezi's dreamself echoed her blindness because losing her sight allowed her to connect with her Lusus for the first time. Similarly, uu's dreamself will echo his handicap because losing his leg allowed him freedom.
- Sprites don't have legs. When uu fuses with his dreamself to become God Tier, he'll still only have one leg, because he and his (sprite) dreamself only have one leg between them.
- He doesn't merely cut off his leg. He chews it off.
- Probably Jossed.
- This, of course, could mean that pre-Scracth Lil' Cal (or, less likely, the magic cue ball) is also uu's Juju.
- Jossed.
- Confirmed.
- Confirmed.
- This is a ridiculously awesome theory. There have been enough meta influences on the plot so far to also make it kinda plausible.
- Which would make a lot of uu's characterization either foreshadowing, or... well, he DID say Red Herrings flowed through his veins, didn't he.
- He would, naturally, be using the WHOSTHISDOUCHEBAG code.
- Jossed.
- Confirmed, somewhat. She is now able to make herself appear as her trollsona.
- Jossed,
- Confirmed, somewhat. She is now able to make herself appear as her trollsona.
There are a couple ways this could work:
- Lord English is a scratch-flipped Caliborn (as a WMG above explains). LE is simply using his pre/post-scratch counterpart as a vessel for a chunk of his soul.
- Caliborn is NOT in fact LE's real name; it's something MUCH more terrifying, and everyone calls him 'Caliborn' out of either misunderstanding, simplicity, fear, or any combination thereof.
- Extrapolating from this, her dreamself literally appears in the scenes she describes, but is invisible. This would make her fanfic accurate to the events that occurred.
- Now my Lord of the Rings knowledge isn't great, but wasn't there something about being able to see and be seen by others where that normally would be impossible while wearing the ring? Considering the references we already saw... (Is the ring tavros had maybe a ring of void from the alpha session?)
- Alternatively, given how passive the Muse is supposed to be, she's PREDICTING what happens in the comic, and in all those scenes, her self-insert doesn't effect anything. Calliope sees and knows everything without realizing it.
- If Calliope's fanfic is passively making things happen in the story, who's to say Caliborn's idealized, badass, buff as hell pimped-out insert isn't killing the characters in the story for his enjoyment? LE is actually working ACTIVELY inside the story, as opposed to Calliope working PASSIVELY. Just as Callie Opeeee is kind of a mary sue self-insert who is just kind of there, observing, Lord English is a Gary Stu that is there destroying EVERYTHING. one reckons with the 20th of November, 2012 update that he inserts LE using that terminal he finds.
- Jossed.
- Jossed.
- Jake's Hope powers gave Caliborn a defeat, which led Dirk to imprison his soul in Lil Cal, which resulted in him becoming Lord English (the name taken from Jake as a sign of respect).
- Unable to function socially, though that's probably more from living alone in a cell all his life.
- Poor hand-eye coordination, going by his attempts to draw.
- Gets angry about look-and-feel changes with computer setups, even when the changes make things easier.
- "I just have an easier time thinking in colours."
- Reacts very strongly to annoying music yet doesn't seem bothered by the extreme physical pain of gnawing his own leg off; it's not unknown for certain stimuli to be unbearable to AS-affected people even while other things that would bother another person are ignored.
- As far as is known, AS is not entirely caused by any physical or genetic thing, though genetics can make one more likely to have it, hence why Calliope doesn't have the same problems.
- I support this wholeheartedly. I also believe Calliope will get a Cairo Evening Gown. And it will be GLORIOUS.
- It follows that his defeat by LE-level Calliope will result in them mating; after he loses, he will then lay the egg that eventually hatches into him and Calliope, thereby fulfilling the paradox-ancestry that is required of a SBURB player.
- After sinking the 8th planet, Earth will come to life as Caliborn's true land.
- Caliborn will probably receive either Snowman's hat or Snowman's heart for sinking the 8th planet, since he obviously doesn't get a leprechaun.
- After defeating Yaldabaoth in his true land, the Black Hole will explode, resulting in the "second 8R8K"
- From inside the black hole, Caliborn's final planet will appear: the Green Moon.
- The Green Moon will be inhabited by leprechauns, and Caliborn will have to conquer it in a way so that he does not alienate the leprechaun teammates he has unlocked (The Felt). To do this, Caliborn will havbe to make use of his wicked cunning and incredible intelligence, the developement of which was cut short due to him predominating early, as well as his learning disability. Therefore, conquering the Green Moon will be nearly impossible, as it will require Caliborn to make use of traits he hasn't developed. Dead Session, everybody!
- The king/leader of the Leprechauns will be Caliborn's final boss. The fight will be nearly impossible to win without the help of the Felt, thereby necessitating Caliborn to keep them on his side while he conquers the planet. The king of the leprechauns will wear the Cairo Overcoat. What better person to wear a garment literally made of the fabric of time than the leader of a species of time-affiliated tricksters?
- Upon defeating the king, Caliborn will not only gain the Cairo Overcoat, but also complete dominance over the leprechaun planet. After all, a dead session is still a fairly regular SBURB session. It's one player and designed to be almost impossible, but that's just it. It's DESIGNED. As in purposefully. So there must be some kind of reward. And what better punishment for the player than downgrading their rule of a universe to rule of a planet?
- Has a kernel of truth to it. Dirk sealed him inside Lil Cal, which was used to create Doc Scratch, which eventually spawned Lord English.
Why he's an Omnicidal Maniac who destroys universes does not currently fit in with this theory.
- Lil Cal does not just contain Caliborn's soul, but also A Rquiusprite and Gamzee. Might that help explain it?
- Considering this would imply all the updates since at least a few months ago are doomed timeline shit (and that's a hell of a lot of doomed timeline shit), along with the strangeness of a Lord of Time having doomed timeline issues and the unlikelihood of Gamzee deliberately making a timeline where English would not exist, at best it's more likely that LE is the doomed Caliborn and had unseen reasons for dooming his own timeline.
- Well, a good chunk of the Act 6 intermissions, and virtually all of the first four Act 6 Act 6 intermissions (and even some of the Act 5 [o]termission), have turned out to be doomed timeline shit thanks to John's retcon powers. What's some more to shovel onto the doomed timeline pile?
- Ideal cherubs, the ones that look like Trickster Mode, ARE shared dominance, or were just able to work together or against each other enough to combine their jujus and use that to enter Trickster Mode.
- Problem: Calliope still has the black eyes in A 6 A 6 I 2, by which point Caliborn is confirmed to be God Tier and thus the cherubs' original shared body is unambiguously dead.
- Jossed. John's retcon powers invalidated [S] Game Over from continuity.
- Look at the first guardians and how they were created so far: Doc Scratch was made partially from Lil' Cal, an object with significance to Bro and Dave. Bec has Harley's genes, and is thus linked to Jade and her Grandpa. Gcat hasn't had anything confirmed yet, but I would bet money he's got something to do with Jaspers. So, what is there a significant link to in John's life that would be sentient enough to form a first guardian? Dad. Any other links John has to someone or something who is not a player in a session are to non-sentient objects, and Dad is mysterious enough to work.
- All known First Guardians are based on non-sentient subservient things ie puppets an pets. While it isn't entirely clear, there is probably a significant reason behind that that simply hasn't been explained yet.
- Consider what we originally learned about the source of Scratch's omniscience, though. That seems to imply that "intelligent" First Guardians are, at the very least, not exactly unique.
- All known First Guardians are based on non-sentient subservient things ie puppets an pets. While it isn't entirely clear, there is probably a significant reason behind that that simply hasn't been explained yet.
- At this point, it depends on what Nannasprite meant by "the witch was not human".
After the point of their creation, there is nothing enforcing their good behavior, so a First Guardian's ultimate purpose is always tied to their inevitable demise. (Bec ensuring Jade's entry and then being overwritten by Jadesprite, Doc Scratch being an excellent host, etc.)
Lord English is essentially a shameless exploitation of these two conditions: a second entity bearing the First Guardian code metamorphoses from the corpse of the first, satisfying the "must die" requirement at the moment of his creation. Since this takes place at the end of the universe and Lord English is technically the same being as Doc Scratch (except not), he has no Protectorate assigned to him and may satisfy the "must travel back in time in a Stable Time Loop" requirement in any arbitrary fashion he pleases. The result: a being with First Guardian-level omnipotence and no timeline to preserve—absolute power with no limitations whatsoever.
(This is also the reason for Lord English's lack of omniscience—he doesn't have a set timeline to preserve. For him, the future is not an unbroken chain of cause and effect, but a blank canvas.)
- As a First Guardian, he's responsible for encouraging his own creation. Jaspers' death enables him to be sampled for ectobiology.
- This is almost certainly at least indirectly true, as First Guardians seem to take action in order to preserve the Stable Time Loops upon which the timeline is based. Jaspers' death might not be a prequisite to getting his paradox slime, but it's still a requirement of the timeline that leads up to GCat's creation.
- Death has already been shown to not be a prerequisite. In fact, no ectobiological sample has been taken from something dead yet.
- The point was probably more that something needs to happen to force the machines to create paradox slime rather than just appearify the target. In other words, death isn't a prerequisite, but Jaspers' death may be.
- This is almost certainly at least indirectly true, as First Guardians seem to take action in order to preserve the Stable Time Loops upon which the timeline is based. Jaspers' death might not be a prequisite to getting his paradox slime, but it's still a requirement of the timeline that leads up to GCat's creation.
Also it means she'll probably kill them. And Alpha!Dave.
- Jossesd, the Batter Witch already killed Alpha Dave and Rose (at least according to Dirk), plus Alpha Ben Stiller and "Childish Gambino".
- The only ray of light to this theory depends on whether or not Mom Lalonde is used to prototype a sprite. However, with no prototyping towers on Derse and Prospit it remains to be seen whether any prototyping will take place or not.
- And even that ray of light has been Jossed.
- The only ray of light to this theory depends on whether or not Mom Lalonde is used to prototype a sprite. However, with no prototyping towers on Derse and Prospit it remains to be seen whether any prototyping will take place or not.
"First Guardians serve English first and foremost, and the planet secondarily. Notice how Doc Scratch's "protection" and Bec or God Cat's really only boils down to keeping the players alive before the session starts and setting up events for the session to begin."
- We can't really make assumptions about the first guardians' relationship with Lord English. While it's entirely possible that Bec and/or GCat are allied to Lord English there is nothing in the text that implicitly or explicitly says that, other than the fact a single one of them is. Just because Doc Scratch is his servant doesn't mean necessarily that all first guardians are.
- There's overwhelming evidence First Guardians are designed to serve Lord English (Green Sun powers between both of them, Guardians encourage Sburb, must die in order to bring English into the universe), and virtually nothing against it. Not even Bec's sacrifice is really an example against it either, as he technically lives on in Jack, PM, and Jade, any of whom could end up manifesting Lord English. It has not been outright stated, but it is intended to be obvious, much like Betty Crocker's identity.
- Each of your 3 points of "overwhelming" evidence are irrelevant. First, the fact that the Green Sun powers all First Guardians stands as a fact on its own. There is no evidence the Green Sun empowers Lord English or is in any way linked to Lord English save that it was yet another prerequisite for Doc Scratch to exist, since he is a First Guardian. Second, FG's encouraging Sburb is not directly relevant to Lord English. It is only flawed sessions that will host Lord English. Doc Scratch says that LE's "calling card" is a glitched session in which the players were spawned in another session, hinting that there are normal sessions that do not allow LE in — yet these sessions must have First Guardians as well since all planets with intelligent life are destined to have one. In fact, it seems that DS himself is specifically a requirement for LE and not just any First Guardian, because he says, "Instances of myself have spawned in countless universes, and my objective is always the same. I have never once failed to complete this objective, and I never will." Third, according to Word of God DS was still alive up until the point that LE burst out of him; his death was a consequence, not a prerequisite.
- Point by point: 1) Yes it is; check English's birth again, he summons his coat with an image of the Green Sun. 2) Flawed sessions are unable to complete the game; infants not being from that session are just a symptom of that. In fact part of the Pre-Scratch trolls fixing their session was to outright make a deal with Echidna and bring a First Guardian to their planet. As for the "instances of myself" line, it's not beyond logical thought that Doc, and by extension First Guardians, would naturally take different forms for different planets, while their general characteristics (white, god powers, no face, etc) remain the same. Given every session shown thus far has needed a First Guardian, it seems that they're vital to the game, and there's no evidence of sessions being successful without them 3) Essentially this one just argues semantics, the true point being that a First Guardian must die in order for Lord English to manifest.
- The only real evidence we've seen is that Doc Scratch must die in order for Lord English to manifest. Considering we've never seen another instance of Lord English coming into being, nor another instance of a First Guardian dying, there is absolutely no reason to assume that all First Guardians are capable of manifesting Lord English through death. You're basing a correlation on a single instance and generalising the circumstances of the only manifestion of Lord English we've seen. It's true that First Guardians seem necessary for the game, but that has nothing to do with Lord English. Also, if you're arguing that GCat is Lord English' ally, then it would be working alongside Betty Crocker, which does not seem to be the case.
- We've seen three First Guardians. Doc Scratch aside since clearly he works for English, Bec and GCat have helped the nascent sessions get started, and protected the players from death. Look at them as similar to Dave and Aradia's reset functions, to protect the Alpha timeline. The end result of Bec's actions was the destruction of the human universe, which is well in line with English's motives. While GCat is still largely an unknown, it's not contradictory for him to be serving Lord English and yet helping Jane survive the Condesce's murder attempts, which is what you implied. Even Doc helped keep the players alive (mostly), before their entry. And keep in mind too there's no indication there are multiple iterations of Doc Scratch! The one thing that genuinely makes him unique and alive, the genetic code all First Guardians have, is present in GCat and Bec, as well as multiple shared traits like a blank white appearance, etc. They are naturally less intelligent (not being omniscient), but they absolutely have mysterious agendas that still haven't been fully revealed or explained.
- If you look only at the end results, then by that logic every single character has served Lord English's goals so far. You can't ascribe Bec's actions to some sort of obvious motive to serve Lord English just off of that. The most you can say is that they've acted to preserve the alpha timeline. Second, there is explicit indication that there are multiple iteration of Doc Scratch by his own words, linked above. Third, [we're getting off topic from the original discussion this was pulled from].
- Fair enough; but just as a final note as I'm genuinely a little frustrated by your cyclical logic, continuing to argue points I thought I already demonstrated evidence against. Doc's comments never were shown to apply specifically to 1:1 copies of himself, and there's plenty of overlap with Doc and the other First Guardians, far more similarities in fact than differences, and at any rate, trusting the words of Doc at face value is a little too trusting as well, given the Green Sun plot. You're welcome to believe what you like, but this is one of those ideas that to me at least seems to be one of the Untwists that Homestuck occasionally has. Much like the dreambubble afterlife discussion above, there's plenty of evidence for both sides and neither side has concretely been proven to be conclusively correct.
- I've tried my best to offer counter arguments, but you haven't listened. That's why I keep going over them. Your "overwhelming evidence" boils down to a few shaky arguments.
1) They share the same power source and FG genetic code, and this should imply the same motives, ignoring any other contributing factors to their creation (e.g. Lil' Cal) or the behavior of other intelligent characters that draw from the same power source (e.g. Jade).
2) Acting to preserve the Alpha timeline when the Alpha timeline results in Lord English's summoning inherently means that this was your primary goal all along. We should assume there is no other valid reason to wish to protect the kids or preserve the session beyond bringing Lord English eventually into the universe it creates.
3) Doc Scratch is the model we should use for all guardians since he's the only one who explains his motives. Since his death was necessary to summon Lord English, the death of a First Guardian (which he is) is necessary, thus the death of any First Guardian will suffice. Any references to other iterations of himself must necessarily refer to any other First Guardian and not to a subset of First Guardians.
4) But, if something Doc Scratch says might contradict this theory, remember that he is a scoundrel and take his words with a grain of salt, even though he's never outright lied, and there's little reason to do so to the audience. (e.g. Dismiss outright what he said about Lord English's calling card in the A1 session and any implications it has about other sessions.)- Rebumped chat back for coherency. Point by point.
1) While Cal himself is a "jUjU", there is no indication that English cannot play out a similar role with another FG. Scratch was a puppet used as a weapon, so GCat and Bec might just be animals obeying their masters. Just because the motif exists with Scratch and English doesn't mean that's what must always exist.
2) While this argument is valid for Bec, GCat has no strong emotional connection demonstrated to any of the Kids. Moreover, Bec and GCat aren't sentient, so they can't really have motives! Animals can however obey orders, and even Bec's prototyping of himself to save Jade was in and of itself preserving the Alpha Timeline, meaning these things aren't mutually exclusive.
3) This depends on the assumption that Lord English varies his appearance based on Universes, and there is not simply one Lord English. Given that Andrew referred to English being the Troll's conception of death and an agent of their mythology, this assumption does carry some weight, as Humanity's conception of death is markedly different from the Troll's, and that could presumably extend to others. Look at for instance Anubis, a god of the dead whom a LE with Bec's ears would heavily resemble.
4) I never meant to undergo Confirmation Bias, though you apparently think I did. I merely am cautious at taking Doc's words at face value, especially words mentioned all of once in a sequence that was heavily symbolic (the calling card). Moreover part of our diagreement is about Doc's reference to his "counterparts" which you take to mean "Doc Scratch" and I take to mean "First Guardian". Neither of these are incorrect, and from the evidence in front of us at this time, neither can be proven or disproven.
Closing: My argument boils down to this. We know Doc Scratch is connected with LE, and that in other sessions, First Guardians are created by agents of Derse, which is very loosely allied with Lord English (Feferi's Lusus, Snowman, Destruction etc). First Guardians prepare a planet for Sburb, And Then What?. Once a session has entered, a First Guardian's purpose is complete. We have no idea what happens after that stage, though in Doc's case he became Lord English. It's not that much of a stretch to believe that is the natural fate of any First Guardian, not necessarily that it must be an alternate of Doc Scratch. Moreover, in every case of FG that we have seen thus far, they are based on a tool or an animal, something that naturally can be subservient to a master.
- Rebumped chat back for coherency. Point by point.
- There's overwhelming evidence First Guardians are designed to serve Lord English (Green Sun powers between both of them, Guardians encourage Sburb, must die in order to bring English into the universe), and virtually nothing against it. Not even Bec's sacrifice is really an example against it either, as he technically lives on in Jack, PM, and Jade, any of whom could end up manifesting Lord English. It has not been outright stated, but it is intended to be obvious, much like Betty Crocker's identity.
- All First Guardian powers we've seen so far have been Space-like in nature. Teleportation is their go-to superpower.
- Calliope is the Muse of Space, and her class is the most powerful passive class in the game. A logical ability for her class to have as a Muse (i.e. one who inspires others) would be to empower others with her Aspect.
- The Green Sun is the same color as her blood. Caliborn's entry was accompanied by a symbolic red supergiant that matched his colors, which could very well have been an allusion to her ties to the Green Sun.
- Doc Scratch being subverted to work for Caliborn makes sense if all First Guardian have some allegiance to Calliope since Caliborn is in a very real sense just another aspect of the same person.
On a vaguely related note from the vantage point of another universe, Jane Twain would have been a horrible name to have the option of choosing over Jane Crocker.
- It would have to be Sassacre, as that seems to genuinely be his name, rather than Sam Clemens.
- Becquerel: Completely mysterious, generally acts like a dog.
- Doc Scratch: Faux Affably Evil, Smug Super, abusive guardian to The Handmaid, and works for [[Gene learned how to kick ass from a practitioner of Hokuto Shinken
I am now positing that Paradox Space, like the sessions it holds within, may exist in multiple iterations. During the iteration we are witnessing, it so happens that the First Guardian of nowhere is the Lord of Time. Perhaps in other iterations, this First Guardian has been the Lord of something else, and that other thing has consequently been the primary and most important aspect that has largely governed the evolution of that iteration of paradox space and the story it had to tell.
- You're forgetting something...
- She could have sent him, however, or discussed it with him prior to his departure
- We'll probably never know now.
- She could have sent him, however, or discussed it with him prior to his departure
- She lives to escape to the future wasteland and will apparently not go into the past. Also how could Bec hate mailmen if, living on a remote island, he never saw them. Mail was dropped from a plane if you remember.
- Why would you take this seriously?
- Because I've heard ideas confessed in total seriousness along these lines, and so out of context I couldn't be sure if it was a joke or serious.
- So Bec hates... airplanes? Oh my god Bec Noir is going to kill Nick Cage in Con Air, thus incurring Vriska's wrath and forcing her heroic sacrifice.
- Actually... Bec Noir apparently loathes PM. When he saw her on a terminal he got incredibly angry. So maybe this joke theory... could be true?
- On the contrary, he has a flush crush on her. If loyalty can save Jade, I'm guessing a crush can save PM.
- Why would you take this seriously?
- In fact, Bec Noir kills every Exile but PM, and PM could very well be the one to kill Bec Noir.
- At this point it's a bit of a wash if they'll even fight, though PM is in hot pursuit of Jack.
- Although they could end up joining forces to fight Lord English perhaps, after seeing what he did to the Dream Bubble?
- At this point it's a bit of a wash if they'll even fight, though PM is in hot pursuit of Jack.
- If Jack was a bishop, it would make sense PM was too (as of Cascade). The previous WMG on teh subject hypothesized that Jack was similar to a Bishop. With the White Sceptre, Jack would be the white-tiled black bishop, and with the regislaying sword, PM would be the black-tiled white bishop. If we were to take this motif a step further we may deduce that PM will not be the one to kill Jack, as said two bishops cannot interact.
- PM didn't originally have the sword though; she received it from Jack. In fact you might say they're both white tiled bishops, as they are very similar in their abilities, but opposites in every other imaginable way.
- Actually PM is a pawn. She went all the way to Derse, came back, and eventually got promoted to Queen.
- Jack too got promoted to Queen (in a fashion) so comparing them is still valid.
- PM didn't originally have the sword though; she received it from Jack. In fact you might say they're both white tiled bishops, as they are very similar in their abilities, but opposites in every other imaginable way.
- Because all the hints about him using the White Ring were a double Bait-and-Switch.
- Or Jack Noir and Alpha Jack Noir, if he manages to get his hands on the second black ring.
- Given that the Empress has little need for it, it's entirely possible.
- It doesn't seem like the Alpha kids are prototyping anything though, thanks to G Cat.
- DD has shown it does very little.
- Given that the Empress has little need for it, it's entirely possible.
- That rule only applies to when you access a Dream Bubble via dreaming. WV and the rest of the group entered the Dream Bubble physically.
- Voila! This entire chain of dreams took place in a very abstract dreambubble; probably because as a Carapace with a more childlike intellect, WV doesn't exactly have crisp memories. Besides if that's the case, why haven't Jack or PM appeared in a dreambubble yet, if only to slice up some dead Nepetas and fly back out. Also based on that sequence and the Green Sun and shape of his nightcap, he might tentatively be called an Heir of Light, as his life thusfar has been rather extraordinarily lucky.
- 1) That sequence doesn't indicate anything about WV's nature, as it's a dream Vriska is having, and it's prophetic, ala her Light powers. It might not actually be a Dream Bubble, but an outright Dream. Indeed, it doesn't follow the rules of any other Dream Bubble, ever. 2) Jack and PM MAY have gone into Dream Bubbles; we haven't been following them very closely ever since Cascade. And even if they haven't, so what? You can't kill the already dead, and Jack's kinda distracted by his attempt to Get Some.
- When was it ever shown Vriska's dreams are prophetic? In fact her direct alternate, Aranea, is God Tiered and a hero of Light as well, and her dreams are in dreambubbles. One must also wonder how it could be prophetic when said prophecy turned out to be innaccurate; it really seems much more like a nightmarish memory of the past. It actually does follow logic of dreambubbles, merely in a much more abstract manner. Dreambubbles have been shown to shift between settings drastically and don't have hard and fast rules (just look at Jade's first Dreambubble for instance), and again there's no indication Vriska did anything special at all to contact WV. And on the matter of Jack and PM, until it has been seen directly on panel, there's no indication WV isn't actually unique.
- Vriska's dreams are potentially prophetic because she had a dream about things that have yet to occur. The dream is symbolic, uses abstract imagery and meanings, and may or may not have been accurate, but that's standard for Dreaming of Things to Come. Also, what the heck are you talking about? Aranea is DEAD. We have no idea what she might've dreamed about as a God Tier. At all. Dreambubbles do have 'rules' in that they always replicate a memory of the past to the smallest details until the dreamer starts 'lucid dreaming' and can then walk into other people's memories. None of that applies to the vision you're talking about whatsoever. Especially since the dream contains things that have yet to occur for both of them, such as Jack taking the green rocks out of WV's stomach and using the Red Miles.
- Voila! This entire chain of dreams took place in a very abstract dreambubble; probably because as a Carapace with a more childlike intellect, WV doesn't exactly have crisp memories. Besides if that's the case, why haven't Jack or PM appeared in a dreambubble yet, if only to slice up some dead Nepetas and fly back out. Also based on that sequence and the Green Sun and shape of his nightcap, he might tentatively be called an Heir of Light, as his life thusfar has been rather extraordinarily lucky.
- Your insistence that it isn't a dreambubble is baffling. There's no evidence that Vriska has prophetic dreams because we know what a Thief of Light does, and none of that would have any chance to be prophetic. If anyone, Rose would be a likely candidate, but even she dreams in dreambubbles. At any rate, the only way anyone has been shown to be able to share a dream like Vriska and WV did is via dreambubbles. Dreambubbles can be◊ bizzare◊, so arguing that Vriska and WV's dream isn't a dreambubble because it's bizarre and breaks the rules we've been shown thus far is nonsensical . Also, this event did occur relatively early in dreambubble's introduction, so Hussie might not have established the internal rules yet, much like how Jade's first dreambubble was an actual dream. It certainly does fit some of the rules, like blending of settings and past events together, though again it is much more abstract than other dreambubbles.
- 1) We really don't know how everything works regarding the Classes and Aspects; entire entries of them are entirely left undefined as far as what they can do, but Light IS tied into luck, fortune, and possible futures, while the Dream Bubbles have NEVER had precognitive scenarios, ever, and are always a blending of settings, memories, and events from the past. None of your links really support your case except possible [S] Jade: Wake Up, but that's still not really conclusive because that was the time Jade met the Horrorterrors, which according to Hussie's Formspring, and Feferi's own comments, took place BEFORE the creation of the Dream Bubbles. Jade's first true Dream Bubble was probably the time she met Feferi as a ghost.
- Dave outright sees her in a dreambubble, and Feferi is there. It may be before Feferi's organization of the dreambubble meetings, but that's still a dreambubble; in fact that distinction might be the difference. Feferi's chain of dreambubbles might well be following different rules than ordinary dreambubbles. With that aside, Light has never been tied to possible futures in any context. I have no idea where you are pulling that from, but Light has been shown to be luck/probablity with a smattering of eye powers; Vriska as the Thief of Light is extraordinarily lucky and can distort her personal luck or that of her enemies, while Rose as the Seer of Light is able to be vaguely omniscient by understanding probabilities of certain outcomes. That's not prophetic, though Rose's abilities certainly can resemble prophecy, that is a quirk of any Seer, as Terezi also demonstrates. Moreover the other links show that there can be blending of past settings (Skaia, Prospit falling) which is very present in WV's dream. Again, it is much more abstract and different from those that we have seen, but there is no other context presented in comic where two characters can speak to each other in a dream other than a dreambubble. At any rate, nothing in WV's dream was actually prophetic in any way; it was based on vague fears of him becoming similar to Jack Noir after WQ tasked him to use the ring mixed with his memories of the Battlefield and his roleplaying as the Mayor of Can Town. While you have previously mentioned that there's a vague foreshadowing that WV would get the uranium ripped out of his stomach, nothing in that dream sequence suggests that at all, at least without invoking YMMV on subtle gestures.
- Argument rendered irrelevant via oversight: Roxy's sleepwalk showed WV can dream in dreambubbles conclusively. Rose waking up at the end indicates they did not directly enter a dreambubble (and that is also discussed by Dave and Rose later), but WV's memories of Earth as a wasteland are still present. The rest of the WMG is up in the air, though for a character associated with a firefly following him around, Light does seem to be rather connected.
- We don't actually see WV in the Dream Bubble, though, so we can't conclusively say that the scenery is from WV's memories, specifically. Especially when we consider that Terezi might be able to read minds and/or "see thoughts".
- Terezi hasn't ever shown the ability to read minds though, and her abilities have been shown to be prophecy instead of mind reading. The Dirk fragment really can't be counted, as he himself states his existence is very odd, and it seems to be more tied to his abilities as a hero of heart. Moreover the memories are specifically from WV's experiences, and can't be attributed to PM for example.
- In any case, we have now seen Lord English, and more importantly, Jack Noir and PM enter dreambubbles.
- ...Which has no relevance on the WMG as, as is specifically mentioned, it's about the entering of a dreambubble via dream rather than physically entering one.
- Well, they DID just witness the destruction of a Dream Bubble by his hand...
- AA: the persisting sounds said to accompany the ultimate demise of the tyrant less an arm and an eye
- This could just as easily be referring to Vriska. Or Marquise Spinneret Mindfang. Or Captain Hook. (Was he missing an eye?) Villainous characters in Homestuck losing an arm and an eye is practically a Running Gag by this point.
- It's definitely a reference to the troll version of Captain Hook; Pupa Pan apparently is more of a myth than a children's story on Alternia, and has something to do with (may be based on?) Marquise Spinneret Mindfang and the Summoner. Hook is a pirate captain, so an eyepatch wouldn't be out of place, and everyone knows the story of his hand and the clock-bearing crocodile that keeps coming back for (ahem) seconds. Given that Call Backs are a freqently used narrative device in Homestuck to the point of being (if Doc Scratch is to be believed) a significant plot point, it could also be a reference to any number of other characters, including but not limited to Jack.
- No, no, no. You're missing something. The two quirks used there aren't Aradia's and Tavros', but Aradia's and RUFIOH's. I'd guess that the villain was Lord Endlish from that, since both Aradia and Rufioh are in the dream bubbles. Especially since Meenah might be getting her army after all...
- It's definitely a reference to the troll version of Captain Hook; Pupa Pan apparently is more of a myth than a children's story on Alternia, and has something to do with (may be based on?) Marquise Spinneret Mindfang and the Summoner. Hook is a pirate captain, so an eyepatch wouldn't be out of place, and everyone knows the story of his hand and the clock-bearing crocodile that keeps coming back for (ahem) seconds. Given that Call Backs are a freqently used narrative device in Homestuck to the point of being (if Doc Scratch is to be believed) a significant plot point, it could also be a reference to any number of other characters, including but not limited to Jack.
- Jossed. Jack's defeat does reflect Captain Hook, in that he loses when the hand with the Black Queen's ring is severed. No clocks are involved, however — it reflects Hook's first defeat, not his final defeat.
- A few scenarios seem likely:
- A) A big beatdown involving all the heroes or just PM kicking his ass for all that he's done, a la Make Her Pay.
- B) Jack ends up working for English in some fashion. English is identified as the Lord of the Angels and Jack definitely has an angelic vibe. Jack could also become English's host for his attempt to manifest in the human universe.
- C) He will eventually see the threat that Lord English poses and will join the fight against English. Jack will die in the final battle helping to ensure Lord English's destruction.
- Given Jack Noir's own nature however, this one does seem unlikely.
- D) In the middle of the Jack vs. PM showdown, Lord English arrives and curbstomps them both, establishing himself as the new Big Bad. It wouldn't be the first time a showdown was interrupted by the interference of a third party.
- Well it wouldn't be English's establishing moment anymore as of [S] Caliborn: Enter. Still could happen, though know somewhat less likely.
- Though [S] Caliborn: Enter itself effectively served the same purpose, didn't it?
- In the end, Jade takes him on alone, uses her connection to Bec to distract him, and PM swiftly defeats him.
- MK's head is way bigger than his body, while HB's body is way bigger than his head, yet both are undeniably the largest members of their respective groups.
- HB gets ordered around by SS and DD; MK takes orders from nobody, and is Problem Sleuth's main antagonist.
- I thought he was Fiesta Ace Dick's counterpart.
- Looks more like the Hired Brawn to me.
- Doc is alive again, when he is dead during the intermission, so that would make sense. However it's not so much past as alternate timeline. Basically Slick's adventures during the intermission were part of an alternate timeline that got folded into the alpha timeline at the end. Otherwise he'd keep going through the cycle over and over.
- The first theory is seemingly confirmed; we've seen the deaths of Quarters and Matchsticks.
- Seems to be both an alternate timeline and the past.
- The first theory is seemingly confirmed; we've seen the deaths of Quarters and Matchsticks.
- Hussie is already building Lord English as the bigger threat than Bec Noir; there's not much space for DD to fit in.
- Bonus points: DD's Porn Stash is called Grey Ladies and his favorite candy is Swedish Fish.
- Another bit of supporting evidence for this: Aradia describes Jack, when he enters the Troll's session, as "0mnip0tent and enraged". Before he left the kid's session, he seemed vicious and destructive, but not enraged; this implies that he flew into a rage after the events of Cascade. He was also present when Karkat confessed to giving Jade's universe cancer, so it's possible his rage at the trolls was actually a Rage Against the Heavens at them for screwing up Jade's universe (and, by extension, the session he lived in.)
- Except for maybe Clover, knowing his luck.
- Confirmed. Spades Slick revives them using Die's doll.
- The sole remnant of the Derse Empire (namely, the Midnight Crew) consider them enemies. The fact that they are rival gangs aside, we learn later on that Dersites despise frogs.
- Like frogs, they are all green, lack noses, have broad mouths (save for Clover) and big bulgy eyes similar to the statues of Billious Slick we've seen.
- Seemingly Jossed, sorta; "frog men" is a name Caliborn comes up for them, but only one.
- On the other hand; Snowman's powers are implied to have come directly from a portion of Doc's own abilities. Thus it would only make sense that her much more limited powers would be similar to his. But if killing her would in effect kill Scratch, Doc would've already done so, instead of directing Rose on her mission.
- It works in the other direction. Snowman's death ends the trolls' universe, which in turn allows Lord English to enter. The process of entry kills Doc Scratch.
- While it seems certain that English is in someway ultimately a villain that will be fought, it remains to be seen if he's a Giant Space Flea from Nowhere or simply The Bigger Bad. Noir is not anywhere near as powerful as English though. Think of it this way, Noir is perhaps a Physical God, but English is quite literally a god, being the incarnation of destruction of universes.
- Lord English has finally made a physical appearance, so at least there's something to fight now.
- Confirmed. All other villains are defeated in the last flash of Act 6. The final battle is against Lord English by himself.
- Jossed. It's important to his origins, but doesn't come up in the final battle.
- It's been shown that Caliborn is at least capable of turning into a snake.
- Jossed. Exactly what happens to Lord English isn't a hundred percent certain, but it has nothing to do with Die.
- Jossed. They're Sburb game constructs created in dead sessions.
- Unlikely. An interesting idea, but next to impossible to implement without being incredibly confusing.
- I think it is quite possible: when Jade turned off the Fourth Wall the panel went black to us the reader, we can jump back and forth throughout the story like Time Travel, the readers do influence the story a bit setting up means for our summoning, and since we are reading it we are indeed already here.
- Also makes sense in that his name inspires ultimate terror — because it's yours.
- Jossed.
- It is rare for a jossed theory to come back, but, since Calliope/uu represents the reader, and the probability of one of them becoming Lord English is pretty high, this theory just did the lifey thing and came back.
- Seems plausible. This would also explain why they are masculine yet never display any gender characteristics, and we already know that Caliborn has red blood. Biggest problem is that they have pupilless green eyes, unlike the overly creepy of Caliborn/Calliope (also green teeth compared to white teeth). Also not all of them have jujus; Die, Quarters, Eggs, Biscuits, and Crowbar are the only ones to have them. Possibly failed clones of Cherubs? Or perhaps fragments of Caliborn himself. Cherubs probably have some variation though; after all Lord English's eyes are pretty darn weird.
- Lord English has green teeth. The only difference is their eyes.
- Jossed. The game gave them to him.
- Lord English has green teeth. The only difference is their eyes.
- Seemingly jossed.
- The source of all creation and the ultimate power trying to create new universes and thus life, yes.
- Source of Bilious Slick, or Bilious Slick is the source of Skaia? Given the history of paradoxical generation in this story, the answer is probably "Yes"
- Bear Grylls from Man vs. Wild. Think about it, less than a day after the world has ended and He's already drinking his own urine and who else on Earth is capable of adequately surviving the apocalypse on short notice.
- According to a brief segment with Nanna, he probably even survived the massive green explosion from Jade's meteor.
- Actually it's pretty clear he is in the medium and he could have entered before the meteor.
- Also he has been living off his own piss for a while now simply because he could not find water, it was assumed that he was still on Earth as it was ruined but it actually makes more sense if he was on a dry planet in the medium the whole time.
- He will kill Lord English.
- The only way to deal any damage to him is by glitches in the game, fedora is somehow in the game dispite the fact that he is not a paradox clone. His entire presence is a glitch.
- And, since there is no evidence of anyone else in the same medium as him, it's likely he is in a Dead Session, much like Caliborn.
- The only way to deal any damage to him is by glitches in the game, fedora is somehow in the game dispite the fact that he is not a paradox clone. His entire presence is a glitch.
- The tumor was surrounded by the kids four symbols (even Dave's scratched gear) meaning the symbol that belongs to fedora may in fact be a giant ying yang bomb. A bomb that is also a game glitch.
- fedora's title is the Gentleman of Glitches and he will soon obtain the godhood of glitches.
- fedora's handle on pesterchum is UU.
- Keeps the DNA/RNA sequencing scheme going also it reveals Hussie's ultimate trolling attempt on the fanbase.
- FF is UU.
- Keeps the DNA/RNA sequencing scheme going also it reveals Hussie's ultimate trolling attempt on the fanbase.
- As an act of friendship with the kids he will share a bottle of apple juice with them.
- He is Problem Sleuth.
- Since he likely wears a hat and pretty much all characters that wear hat's in MSPA gennerally keep some foodstuff under their hats one could probably expcect somesort of game breaking candy under the fedora.
- or pumpkin seeds.
- fedora is J's grandfather.
- This one now appears highly unlikely, if not Jossed.
- fedorafreak is the offspring of Mobius Trip and Hadron Kaleido
- fedora is the thirteenth troll.
- fedoraFreak moved Earth outside of the dying Bilious Slick and into the Cherub universe. We know it got there somehow, and it probably takes a God-Tiered Hero of Space to do it. Are there any other God-Tiers unaccounted for?
fedorafreak's color? between the trolls, the kids and their respective sprites hussie has covered all the visible light spectrum so what color will fedorafreak be. Will he remain gray and just match Karkat's color?
- Orange, Pumpkin Orange (fits between Tavros and Sollux)
- simple fedorafreak is Karkat
Fedorafreak is the Sufferer. Who somehow survived and made it to the human universe.
- Since he was already technically a player he was allowed to re-enter the game.
fedorafreak is Dad Egbert from the second kid's session.
- Because we have four kids soon to be ancestors and four ancestors soon to be kids but why would a character just suddenly stop existing from one session to the next.
fedorafreak is the hero of void.
- Equius's attribute prevented any spying attempts on Vriska. Similarly Rose suddenly can not be viewed by anyone around the same time FF starts making posts about how he cannot find water and has resorted to drinking his on urine.
- But that is impossible, FF is already the Gent of Piss.
As revealed in [S] Cascade, Lil' Cal was sitting in Gamzee's lap off-camera in the scene where AH told us, "The most important character in Homestuck fondly regards the miracle of a new beginning." Almost everyone assumed this meant Gamzee, though not everyone knew whether he was serious or not, but the Gamzee ruse was a distaction. Lil' Cal was created by Gamzee to haunt Dave's nightmares and, though a series of cross-universe time loops, became Bro's unsettling minion, a friend to Gamzee and Bec Noir, the ectobiological grandfather of Doc Scratch, and possibly an influence on Lord English's form once he manifested (or vice versa). There's good reason to believe that Lil' Cal has always been alive since he moves and laughs on his own on Derse, and Gamzee says that he's been teaching him the "truth" about the "messiahs" that the Subjugglators worship — the one who releases the Vast Honk, Lord English.
Lil' Cal may be far more tied into Lord English than originally believed. Whether created unconsciously as an echo of him by the heir of the Subjugglators or not, he has certainly been instrumental in his arrival. For all we know, he may be an aspect/herald of him. Possibly even the reason why Doc Scratch is so much more active in the service of Lord English than Bec ever was.
- A few things, one, since through the meteors, dream cal became real cal, if dream cal was sentient, and could move, then yes, real cal can, since they are the same cal...but just because D C Scratch was Lord English's minion, doesn't mean ALL first guardians are...(first guardians actually exist to guard planets with life)...but apparently D C Scratch said he had gone through this many times, which means he might be the ONLY first guardian working for LE...for that matter...
- This theory has only become more viable as time passes in the story. Lil' Cal's importance is stressed by the prior Lord English himself (well, at least in body, I'm not going to get into the Calliope is LE not Caliborn debate). He refers to Lil' Cal as a Juju, which has been established as an object or entity of great importance tied to Cherubs. It is heavily implied that Lil' Cal is somehow one of UU or uu's Juju's, probably though more trans-universe time shenanigan bullshit. One of the things uu stresses in his explanation of Juju's is that juju's cannot be copied in any way, and that only one can exist, all other instances being an illusion. It is the belief of this troper that the illusion in this case is one of temporal hijinks, with all the Lil' Cal's in the story being the same one, simply shunted around time and space much like Lil' Taylor the robot bunny was. Lil Cal also clearly looks very similar to the Cherubs. With all these hints suggesting that Lil' Cal is intensely connected to the plot in some way, it's looking very likely that Lil' Cal was actually who Hussie was referring to as "the most important character in Homsestuck".
- This could also be a rather subtle Shout-Out to Seed of Chucky, which stars a gender confused puppet.
- Also supporting this is [S] John: Enter village. John's conversation with Vriska, which happens through his Serious Business goggles, is represented the exact same way as the conversations in Alterniabound. Of course, that may be for simplicity of both programming and representation, but still.
- They don't have archagents. The Queen is more heavily involved on Prospit, while the Queen of Derse is much less involved.
- What does Hussie's death at the end of A 6 I 2 mean for this WMG?
- Invocation of Death of the Author of course! More realistically; remember how when Doc Scratch took brief control of the story it somehow managed to get even darker? What would happen if LE took control of the story?
- With the events of Act 6 Intermission 4, it's looking pretty likely that we're going to find out.
- So wait... since Lord English is in fact Caliborn, and his good counterpart is Calliope ... does that mean Andrew Hussie is Calliope?
- Adding to this idea, the reason there were so many carapacians were visible in Act 7 was because the game had finally been won, thus freeing them from the game's control.
- Specifically, he's the Heir of Space, as we have seen.
- Hussie's obsession with Vriska, like LE's obsession with Jake English, is for dealing him his second defeat
- Why he possesses the Cairo Overcoat — try not to think about this too hard...
- The scenes where he messes with Caliborn becomes reminscent of Karkat messing with his own past self
- Why Hussie and Caliborn have the same dream of creating anime
- Hussie's penchant for dressing up as a troll, or as a human, is reflective of Caliborn slowly adopting his sister's cosplay interests
- What are you a fucking idiot? Of course I am not Lord English. How dumb would that even be.
- Hussie is dead, Caliborn is writing the plot now! Shitty twists all the way down!
- What are you a fucking idiot? Of course I am not Lord English. How dumb would that even be.
- Lil Hal, who shares in Dirk's self-loathing.
- Equiuus, a Void player who gets off on being choked to his death.
- Gamzee, who spends most of his time in Alternia suppressing his darker instincts via sopor slime.
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