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Villain Has a Point
"Picking a fight in a school? There's no way this makes sense."
Skitter, Worm

Time and time again a story is told with the classic hero vs. villain setup with the villain committing acts deemed evil by good, neutral, and the normally apathetic. The villain usually commits said acts for their own personal reasons. But wait, they have a justified reason for their actions? They may not be so much evil as they are anti. He may end up sending the hero into a depression after his motives come to light? Here my friends is a villain who actually has a justified reason for being what he is. Due to the nature of their villainy if they become too excessive in their methods they can easily fall under Well-Intentioned Extremist. In-Universe they can also easily fall under Designated Villain. Compare Jerkass Has a Point, Anti-Villain, Ambiguously Evil and Strawman Has a Point.

Examples:

    open/close all folders 

     Anime and Manga 
  • Yu-Gi-Oh! ZEXAL has this with Kaito Tenjo. He believes the Numbers' cards are evil, and from what has been seen, the Numbers can easily make the good bad, (Ukyo, Fuya to a lesser extent) and the bad worse, (Jin, Rikuo, Kaio). Also, his claim that the Numbers want to destroy the world seems plausible, seeing the evil from Black Mist who was able to capture Astral and control Yuma's body against his will. In fact, the only issue with him capturing Numbers is that he takes the soul of the person who possessed it.
  • In Bitter Virgin, maybe he doesn't exactly earn the title of "villain", but when Yamamoto grabs Hinako in the final chapter, setting himself up pretty nicely as one more in a long line of abusive bastards, he makes her realise that, without intending to, understandable though her reaction was, she has truly hurt the feelings of some of the guys in her class, most of whom wouldn't even dream of harming her the way her rapist did.

     Comics 
  • In ElfQuest, Rayek realizes that the accident that brought the High Ones to the World of Two Moons is going to happen in the future, and the Palace is capable of time travel. He brings up the idea of going to that exact moment and preventing the High Ones from being sent into the past and driven from their home, and preempt centuries of struggle and suffering on their part. When Cutter objects, Rayek makes a point: the presence of elves has always negatively affected the World of Two Moons (going back to the first volume, when a human tribe caused a forest fire to drive the Wolfriders out), but they're literally aliens; the world had its own path before they arrived by accident, and it has a right to its own destiny. Of course, that point gets quickly lost in Rayek's otherwise power-hungry, elitist motivations, as well as his dismissal of the fact that, unless they are in the Palace, all elves born since the crash who are not dead and have their spirits tied to the Palace will never exist.
  • Begrudgingly pointed out by Linkara, Mephisto does have justification why he doesn't want Peter's soul in "One More Day". The souls he collects would have the satisfaction that they have sacrificed themselves for the greater good, and Mephisto would lose any joy in making them suffer.
  • Buffy the Vampire Slayer Season Eight: Simone Doffler goes rogue from Buffy's Slayer Organization largely because they repeatedly refuse to let the Slayers use guns. Aside from Buffy's general dislike of guns, the Scoobies really have no real reason to give her why not.
  • Often the case with Magneto, (and a lot of other Well Intentioned Extremists,) and the main reason why he so often swings between being an enemy or an ally of the X-Men, and even as an enemy he seldom completely loses the sympathy and grudging respect of both the X-Men and the audience. This carries over to the films, where it is indeed usually humanity (or, at least, a human,) who escalates the human-mutant conflict, but his possibly-justified retaliation crosses the line by targeting innocents as well as the guilty.

    Fan Works 

    Films — Animated 
  • Monsters University: Mike and Sulley accidently break Dean Hardscrabble's last memento of her scaring career, so she gives them a dressing down, by giving them hypothetical scenarios that they both fail, and get kicked out of the program for. She fails Mike immediately because as smart as he is, he's just not intimidating, and she fails Sulley because, while he's intimidating, he doesn't use his head to analyze and adapt to scaring situations. The film shows she's right about both, and they need to work together to be efficient.
  • One from Batman: Under the Red Hood, from the titular character. No matter how many times Joker may get slammed into Arkham, being the Cardboard Prison it is, he always returns at some point to wreak more havoc. While Batman does think about killing Joker, he fears about never coming back. However, among Batman's rogues gallery, Joker DOES have a higher kill count alone than most and will most likely never stop killing as long as he is able, so putting him behind bars or a padded room does no good. Yet because he's Batman, he won't take that step. Some people find it easy to side with Red Hood here, even though he is a bit demented.

    Films — Live-Action 
  • In Jet Li's The One, his character Yulaw is wanted for murdering alternate versions of himself in parallel dimensions. In doing so the life force of the duplicates he kills is divided among the remaining parallel selves, making them stronger. When placed on trial early in the film for 123 counts of murder, Yulaw points out how can he possibly be guilty of murdering himself? He then goes on to say all their energy will simply go into a single individual. When one looks at the troubling implications of the multiverse regarding freewill, Yulaw's goal seems more like a subversion of predestination. Of course it's made clear he's lost all compassion due to his obsession.
    Yulaw: "You call it murder. How could I murder myself, a hundred and twenty three times? I just took those wasted energies and put them into one container... me. It made me faster, smarter, stronger. What if that is our fate? To unite with our other selves. To be unified forever. To be one. I will be The One."
  • In The Dark Knight, one of the reasons why the Joker is so effective a villain is that he's very good at pointing out the flaws in the principles of others, and exploiting those flaws to his advantage. Some examples are: 1) He immediately recognizes that Batman is the real reason why organized crime is threatened in Gotham and points this out to the mob, which causes the mob to hire the Joker when they realize he was right, giving the Joker access to Gotham's underworld. 2) He exploits the fact that Batman really is an unlawful vigilante by promising to kill people until Batman unmasks, turning the city and the cops against Batman. 3) He convinces Harvey Dent to become Two-Face by telling Dent that the so-called justice system that he supports is filled with corrupt people who constantly tolerate corruption and profit from crime, which is true since Jim Gordon is forced to work with suspect cops in order to have enough men to do his job. 4) He constantly iterates that people are complacent and corruptible and backs up his beliefs by putting people in a position where they have to choose to obey the law and their principles, or lose something they dearly love (only Batman consistently demonstrated his incorruptibility).
  • In Rocky III, Clubber Lang is outraged that Rocky won't allow him a shot at the heavyweight championship title and publicly accuses him of only ever taking easy matches. He's actually right: it turns out Rocky's manager Mickey has quietly been refusing all challenges to the title except those he knows Rocky can win.
  • In Gladiator, Commodus tells his sister Lucilla that "If father had had his way" in turning Rome into a republic again, "the Empire would have torn itself apart." A glance at Roman history shows that this very well could (and probably would) have been the case, resulting in civil war, at the very least between those wanting an Emperor and those wanting a Republic, if not even more fragmented than that.
  • Ferris Bueller's Day Off: Yes, Vice Principal Ed Rooney had gone too far by breaking into the Bueller home, but that doesn't change the fact that Ferris is skipping school, has done so at least nine times before (even hacking into the school computer to change the records), and has done so by blatantly exploiting the good will of everyone around him.
  • Yuri Orlov, the eponymous Lord of War is an amoral arms dealer who sells weapons to warlords whom he knows will use them to massacre innocent people. But, as he points out, plenty of innocent people are massacred without advanced weapons; the Rwandan genocide was committed primarily with machetes. Also, as he points out to the Hero Antagonist, Jack Valentine, there are often good policy reasons why the United States or other democratic governments will want to arm one side in a conflict without doing so openly, and he and arms dealers like him are essential to doing so.
  • Trask in X-Men: Days of Future Past. He made a lot of work to convince obstructive bureaucrats that mutants do exist, that they can be dangerous, and that America needs some kind of protection from them... and Magneto proved that Trask was completely right.
    • As said under Comics above, Magneto also counts as this, especially in X-Men: First Class when the actual moment of the inevitable break between him and Charles happens because he wants to retaliate against people who have just tried to kill all the mutants (including the ones to whom they are allied,) in an attack solely motivated by fear of what they might do with their power rather than because the mutants were in any way aggressive towards them at the time. Charles' protests that the men Magneto's immediately targeting were Just Following Orders, unsurprisingly, does not make the Holocaust-survivor relent.

     Literature 
  • In Simon Bloom, Sirabetta, the Big Bad of the first book, is quite correct on how the Knowledge Union has some significant flaws.
  • In Isaac Asimov's story "The Dead Past", the government agents trying to prevent the protagonists from learning the secret of viewing the past seem like a classic heavy-handed Government Conspiracy... until it turns out that they're simply trying to prevent privacy from being utterly destroyed by the dissemination of devices that can view any place at any past time from a century ago to a microsecond ago.
    Happy goldfish bowl to you, to me, to everyone, and may each of you fry in hell forever. Arrest rescinded.
  • Honor Harrington: The Mesans are in the author's own opinion correct in their position on transhumanism and genetic engineering, it's their Utopia Justifies the Means ways that are wrong.
  • Asimov's short story In A Good Cause... centres around two old friends, both initially part of a movement towards human federation in the face of the united alien empire of the Diaboli, with one remaining the idealist and getting arrested for it several times, and the other turning against him and gradually rising up in Earth's government. The first scene encourages the reader to sympathize with the idealist by establishing that there now is a united human federation, and it regards the idealist with respect and a bit of shame for repeatedly arresting him. Every time the two friends interact (the story uses large time-jumps to pass the time the idealist actually spends in prison), the one who turned against the movement chides the idealist for not being pragmatic enough. In the final scene where the two interact... the pragmatist's manipulations has led to the aliens being defeated and the human worlds moving towards federation, just as they both wanted all along.
  • Skitter from Worm when talking to almost any hero or their bosses, pointing out that the system they belong to is damaged and imperfect, the heroes aren't as clean as they pretend, or, in one case, that they're deliberately trying to induce a hostage situation. The last one is so convincing that the hostages side with her.

    Professional Wrestling 
  • While in ECW, Mick Foley invoked this during his "anti-hardcore" gimmick, making real points about the fans (who were hungry for more and more risk-taking and violence by the wrestlers that would get to be too much) and still being considered a villain. He'd also invoke this trope when he "quit" as Cactus Jack while in the WWF, citing that he and Funk had been beaten pretty badly and the audience didn't seem to care once they heard uber-popular "Stone Cold" Steve Austin was in the building and started chanting his name.
  • When Stephanie McMahon turned heel for the first time by betraying her then-face dad and marrying top heel Triple H, she cited earlier in the year when her dad covertly arranged her own kidnapping from The Undertaker (and various other things that made her fear for her life) in an overly complicated plan to screw Stone Cold Steve Austin out of the title. Honestly, it's hard to blame her for that one when you take a step back. Triple H at the time had become the most detestable man in the business and his Start of Darkness was betraying DX to join Vince's Corporation and take part in those very plans.
  • Sometimes, a heel will hate a face for some pretty solid reasons and still be a heel nonetheless. An example would be when Chris Jericho had a feud with Shawn Michaels in 2008. Most everything Jericho said about the fans being hypocrites for supporting HBK (Michaels) were pretty much true — except that it wasn't long before Jericho began calling the fans hypocrites for pretty much any reason.
  • Smug Straightedge villain CM Punk frequently called out Jeff Hardy over his past drug use during their 2009 feud. Hardy's lame excuses (like that he's just "living in the moment" or that he's not perfect), combined with the fact that he never admitted fault for his past, caused more than a few fans to turn against the supposed face. Of course, this didn't at all justify Punk's cheating or using cowardly sneak attacks.
    • Punk tends to get this a lot. His point toward John Cena during The Nexus feud that he's not as high on morals as he claims can be argued to be true. John Cena's done some pretty awful things and was saved from being booed by being a face. Of course Punk, being a heel, was booed for pointing this out.
    • And further down the road, he was the heel in a feud with Randy Orton, but it was then-heel Orton who attacked then face-Punk years ago when he was champion, and punted him in the head, forcing him to forfeit the title via injury. Of course, Orton being a pretty textbook Draco in Leather Pants (even as a face) Punk was booed. Then again, Punk himself can be a bit of a Draco at times.
    • But where this got particularly dark was when Orton took to using the same punting move on members of Punk's Nexus group, eventually putting everyone in the group except Punk himself on a bus. When you look at it, Punk is seeking revenge for something that a person would be extremely justified in being angry about, but he's the villain, when Orton himself has barely changed from his vicious, psycho heel persona, but the crowd cheers him anyway. Since Punk has never really done anything horrible during his the feud against Orton, it's almost like the crowd is cheering for the Villain Protagonist to, as Orton put it, put the just as if not more popular hero in a rehab facility. It's almost baffling that they wouldn't boo Orton on the grounds of, up until now, being a Karma Houdini.
  • Lita's story reason for turning heel in her retirement speech. Read between the lines of the typical heel self-aggrandizing and it was pretty sound. She felt WWE women's wrestling wasn't given any respect by fans or the WWE corporation despite busting her butt to bring up diva's wrestling to the level it was at the time.
    • See also: Beth Phoenix and Natalya's Divas of Doom team-up. Whilst describing the rest of the divas as "perky bimbos" may be going a little far, consider that the two of them have in fact wrestled from an early age and yet often lose to former models who never wrestled before joining WWE and it can be a little hard to see them as outright heels.
  • Muhammad Hassan had spent his entire career in the WWE pointing out the prejudice and racism he has to go through as an Arab-American. When you hear fans chanting "USA" at him despite being billed from Detroit, Michigan, you know he has a valid point. And let's not talk about his appearance in the Royal Rumble match...
    • The first words out of Steve Austin's mouth when face to face with Hassan? "I see Sand People."
    • What drove home his point is that during his feud with The Undertaker, he had several masked assailants attack Taker. A newspaper (maybe the New York Post) ran a story headlined with "Undertaker Attacked By Arabs." Hassan brought up the very valid point of "How did they know they were Arab if they were wearing masks?" Unfortunately, even that wasn't enough to save his character - UPN essentally forced WWE to never show him on Smackdown again, and they saw no other choice but to have Undertaker essentially kill him off in their scheduled match at the next pay-per-view.
    • Sad thing is, he's a kayfabe Arab. In real life, he was descended from Italian Americans, so it's really just because people see dark skin and assume everything they hear that is negative to be true.
    • Jerry Lawler: "They don't boo you because you're Arab! They boo you because you're a couple of obnoxious jackasses!" Fans: "Eeeeehhhh."
  • During the whole "Eddiesploitation" fiasco, when Chavo Guererro turned heel against then-Champion Rey Mysterio, he accused Rey of using the Guererro name to further his own career. He was supposed to come off as jealous (since he failed to win his own tribute match to his uncle), but considering that Eddie's death has been used as Rey's motivation even before his Road to Wrestlemania, some fans agreed with him to the point where he was considered to be the true face in all of this.
  • The Fourtune/EV 2.0 feud in TNA seemed to be based around the fact that Fourtune was pissed they had to make room in the spotlight for all the old ECW guys, most of whom they feel can't wrestle. Ric Flair stated that until [the ECW guys] survive a plane crash like he did, they can't tell him shit about being "hardcore". Likewise, AJ Styles feels he's helped make TNA what it is through his duty to the company, calling TNA "The House That AJ Styles Built" and declaring ECW has no right to push him and the other originals out of the spotlight. They both have a point. What sends this into a combination of Viewers Are Morons/Mind Screw territory is that the ECW/EV2.0 guys were famously loyal to Paul Heyman because they always came first to him (other guys would come in but he never put them over at the expense of his originals). The audience was supposed to boo Fourtune (the original TNA guys, for the most part) because they're complaining EV2.0 (the invaders) are taking over their show, when the invaders' original company (ECW) achieved its success because the original ECW manager was loyal to his originals and never pushed them aside. Furthermore, the ECW guys are supposed to be faces, but they're doing something that the original ECW despised (pushing aside original talent in favor of other, more famous people).
  • Another TNA example would be the decision by President Dixie Carter to fire "The Monster" Abyss. She was shown bullying General Manager Eric Bischoff into enforcing her wishes, which is admittedly her right as his superior. The problem here is that she wanted to fire Abyss not because he has been randomly attacking and even attempting to kill high-profile wrestlers (such as his assault on then-TNA Champion Rob Van Dam, forcing Van Dam to vacate the title), but because Abyss took Dixie hostage in front of the entire TNA "Impact Zone" (what TNA calls its in-studio fan base) and reduced her to a sniveling wreck on national television. While firing Abyss is (in Kayfabe, at least) almost certainly a good idea, the point here is that Dixie comes across as an egotistical Manipulative Bitch for caring more about looking good on camera than about the safety of her employees. Granted, this is a bit of an inversion of the trope since the strawman in this instance does not have a point; it's just that the anti-straw woman indeed has a point, but it's a self-serving and hypocritical one.
  • The way Batista was treated after Over the Limit was particularly egregious, not the least because it happened on his very last night with WWE. He and John Cena competed for the WWE Championship in an "I Quit" match that culminated with Batista giving up after Cena threatened to F-U him off the top of a car. Cena smiled — and then F-U'ed him anyway, nearly killing him! The next night on Raw, Batista showed up (in a wheelchair) to protest Cena's cowardly attack on him and to threaten to bring a lawsuit against WWE, claiming them responsible for nearly ending his career. Raw General Manager Bret Hart then appeared and told Batista that he would be granted another chance at the WWE Championship if he could win a qualifying match to be held immediately. When Batista pointed out that he couldn't even walk, Hart rather rudely stated that Batista therefore forfeited. Batista went ballistic and screamed at everyone, announcing that he was quitting WWE for being treated so unfairly — and every single person in the arena booed him, like they would any other crybaby heel. Kayfabe aside, it was a really disrespectful send-off for a wrestler who, for the past five years, had been second only to Cena in popularity.
    • Bret Hart's ascension to General Manager was actually Vince McMahon attempting to pull this on him. After Bret dished him a particularly nasty beatdown over the Montreal Screwjob, Vince decided to promote him to GM, showing him that being in charge means being the bad guy and making decisions not everyone will like for the sake of the company. He gets into a disagreement with his family after making such a decision over a match, though Vince quickly seizes the moment and fires him afterwards, ensuring Bret still looks unfairly treated.
  • On the Backlash after Wrestlemania XIV, prior to Triple H's match with X-Pac, he and Chyna talked about how much of a Ungrateful Bastard X-Pac was, as he was the reason he got a job in the then-WWF in the first place. While Triple H was a heel at the time and could be dismissed as a jerkass trying to justify himself betraying DX, after thinking about Chyna betraying Triple H for the Corporation and how he was all alone with none of the other DX members coming to his aid, it's no surprise that Triple H decided to sell out his buddies in DX.
  • When Jerry Lawler wrestled The Miz for the WWE title, the next Raw, Michael Cole did have a point in that Lawler was partially at fault, although not in the way he intended or the way he said. While the point Cole made was slightly valid, it really wasn't Lawler's place to interrupt a new champion's victory celebration, but The Miz is a frankly pathetic heel who more or less cheated to win his title and most faces would have done the same, there was a point in that Lawler technically did screw himself out of the win. While yes, Cole did pull him off the ladder and temporarily stop him from winning, Lawler berated and then assaulted Cole on this for at least a full minute. If Lawler had simply given Cole a well-deserved punch in the mouth and gone back to his business, Lawler would have been champion. Although it was still fun to see Michael Cole get beaten down.
    • Repeated far too many times to count, most wrestlers, even Faces, have a blatant sadistic streak and take way too much fun beating someone mercilessly to concentrate on the job at hand. John Cena for example, could have very easily won his match against John Lauranitis at "Over The Limit", if he was not having so much fun stalling and torturing Laurinaitis in every manner possible, at one point he gets cocky enough for Laurinaitis to actually get the upper hand, and when he still plays about after that, he is taken out by The Big Show, costing him the match. We can roll our eyes at Cole cheering Laurinaitis for "earning" the win, but he was a lot more savvy than Cena.
  • Michael Cole gets one during the 3/25/2011 segment when he was trolling the hell out of R-Truth. Booker T says he lost respect for him, his reply:
    Michael Cole: "It's not about respect. No one gave me respect for fourteen years."
  • Ric Flair and Mick Foley's feud was based on some comments Flair made about Foley in his autobiography, which in turn were reprisal for some unflattering things that Foley said about Flair in his own book. Amazingly, EITHER man could be considered the Strawman here and EITHER could be said to have a good point anyway, depending on your point of view; Flair is right when he says that his criticism of Foley's technical wrestling prowess was sound (but possibly still in the wrong if those comments were rooted in personal malice), but Foley may also have been right when he pointed out that he was justly critical of Flair's treatment of him backstage and Flair's boneheaded booking decisions, not Flair's in-ring legacy (but possibly still in the wrong if he was using those things as an excuse for a petty Take That against Flair).
  • On NXT Season 5, rookie Byron Saxton wants nothing to do with his pro Yoshi Tatsu due to the latter's courtship with Maryse rather than being his pro. While the viewers are supposed to be sympathetic towards Yoshi, the fact that Yoshi's infatuation with Maryse has interfered with mentoring his rookie (to the point where it cost him a match) makes Saxon appear more sympathetic.
  • The number of people who have turned heel for no other reason than because they had the audacity to be angry after being attacked and/or bullied by Stone Cold Steve Austin for no apparent reason is pretty high. Prominent examples include Ric Flair during the initial brand split who was attacked despite doing everything he could to get on Austin's good side, and Vince McMahon himself, who started a nearly five year epic feud simply by asking Austin to be a bit less anti-social.
  • Bobby Roode, since turning heel to take the TNA World Heavyweight Championship, has seen the bad side of new authority figure Sting. Sting has tried to punish Roode for his outright cheating tactics and jerkass tendencies - including taking advantage of injured ex-partners and practically shooting them In the Back, using Dixie Carter as a shield and spitting in her face, among other assorted tactics - by making life hard for him as the champion. However, Sting in the process has taken to forcing Roode into repeat title defenses on Impact after certain pay-per-views as well as physically involved himself in world title matters. Roode is a selfish traitor with no redeemable social qualities whatsoever, but he's got a point about Sting's zeal for screwing with him to get a more virtuous champion — he's even recently exploited that to recreate an old Bret Hart title defense. Sting would later realize that Roode was right and he would never end Roode's reign this way, turning over power back to Hulk Hogan because it just wasn't working and coming back later as an active wrestler again.
  • Matt Hardy turned heel on his brother Jeff (the first time) because he was annoyed with Jeff costing them matches by being unable to resist doing high spots. Notably in a cage match, Jeff cost them the titles by being at the top of the cage, and instead of escaping (and winning the match), he chose to jump off and ended up getting pinned. Matt had a point, didn't he?

    Theatre 
  • Dickinson (who's more of an Anti-Villain) in 1776. One of his main objections to independence is that a bunch of ill-trained militiamen has no chance of defeating the British armed forces, then the strongest in the world. It's a very good point, really.

     Video Games 
  • In Mega Man 9, Dr. Wily convinces Dr. Light's newest robot masters, all of whom are about to reach their expiration date and due to be recycled, that they shouldn't have to die because the law says so and that they can still live perfectly useful lives. While Wily is just saying this so he can use them to frame Dr. Light, he is right in that the robot masters are still sentient living beings that are being trashed because of the law and not by choice.
    • This causes all kinds of confusion when one remembers that the robots in Mega Man are not sentient, and shouldn't be able to make decisions like that. The whole plot of Mega Man X was supposed to be that the titular character was the first sentient robot in the setting.
    • The robots in the original Mega Man are sentient, to a point. They cannot reason or have true free will like the robots from X series. If the Robot Masters in 9 were like X, they would not allowed themselves to be killed while they have no real choice in the matter since they had to obey humans.
  • Dr. M from Sly 3: Honor Among Thieves may be a terrible person to work with, a lab nut, and an overall Ineffectual Sympathetic Villain but he DID buy the island legally so everything is technically his and he could've claimed his right to kill Sly seeing that Sly invaded his land.
  • Diablo III has your main character as his allies forced to negotiate with the ghost of Zoltum Kulle, an Obviously Evil villain who makes no attempt to hide the fact he is using you to be revived. During your cooperation, he passes most of the time explaining your character that he actually is a Well-Intentioned Extremist who want to awake Humans' true power, and that your own allies are manipulating you for their own purpose. At the end of Act III, it turns out one of your allies, Adria, was indeed using you to prepare Diablo's resurrection.
  • Mundus in DMC Devil May Cry mocks Dante's desire to free humanity by pointing out that humans had freedom before Mundus arrived, and "They fought. They killed. They starved." Vergil shares Mundus' opinion of humanity, to the point that he wants to rule humanity with Dante after Mundus' defeat.
  • Darth Traya, from Knights of the Old Republic II, justifies her actions by proclaiming that the Force uses people as tools and that she wants to break free from the cycle of massive galactic wars by destroying it. Though she's the villain, she has a point: the wars between Jedi and Sith rage on for millennia afterward, with countless innocents in the crossfire and no end in sight.
    • There's also the matter of a single Jedi or Sith being able to influence the entire galaxy. Is that sort of power something any one person should have when individuals will lay waste to everything just to obtain it?
  • William Johnson in Assassin's Creed III in his Hannibal Lecture before his death claims that if the British control on the colonies was broken the colonists will encroach on the Native American lands and displace the inhabitants...something that obviously occurred in Real Life and is even later touched on in universe.
  • The terrorist group Ilias Kreuz in Monster Girl Quest are a gang of criminals who show no mercy whatsoever toward monsters and slay them without hesitation. However, when these monsters also tend to show no mercy to humans whatsoever and either devour, enslave, or kill For the Evulz any human they encounter, it's kind of hard to not understand where Ilias Kreuz is coming from. Out of over 200 monsters, about 9 of them are actually friendly, and three of them had to be beaten in a fight first. They start attacking humans in chapter 3 again, by the way.
  • The Big Bad of Arcanum: Of Steamworks & Magick Obscura, Kerghan, believes that the afterlife is far more peaceful and pleasant than existence as a mortal and therefore intends to act on the logical conclusion. As two certain party members who have died and been resurrected respectively raised as undead can confirm he is right.
  • During Penelope's Motive Rant in Sly Cooper: Thieves In Time, she points out that Bentley could have done so much more in life than just been the brains of a group of thieves, given how unbelievably smart he is. Of course she's absolutely right and Bentley even agrees, but he loves his friends so much that all he's ever wanted to be is part of their team.
  • Cardinal Albert Simon, the Big Bad of Shadow Hearts, wants to wipe out humanity and restart civilisation because of the brutal repression of human elites. The party doesn't even disagree with him about the repression, but still fights him because of the loss of innocent lives. The sequel reveals that his actions in the first game were a misguided attempt to stop Rasputin.
    Albert Simon: Only an illusion of peace exists in the superficial calm of our lives. In fact, the blood and tears of the poor are sacrificed daily by a handful of elite power-mongers. No matter how far science and technology advance, repression will never cease. We’re only human. Whenever the calls for revolution turn into concrete action, instigators are met by the full resistance of the elite, who stop at nothing to keep their power.
  • In a bizarre mix of this and Even Evil Has Standards, Azrael of Blazblue, sociopathic monster he may be, is quick to call out Sector Seven's motives for releasing him. It's difficult to disagree with him.
    "So, let me get this straight: First you guys get Kokonoe to capture me and put me on ice, and now you're releasing me so I can kill her? That's the joke of the century right there. You're a bunch of selfish assholes by any standard."
  • In Shin Megami Tensei IV, no one can say Tayama isn't an arrogant, amoral asshole, or that the Red Pills his Ashura-kai create aren't unspeakably vile, considering the production method , but unfortunately he's not bluffing when he stresses the importance of both for Tokyo. After the events of the Alternate Timeline arc are over, the prentice Samurai return to a Tokyo that's now worse than the two Death Worlds they've just visited, due to the fall of the Ashura-kai and the collapse of the Red Pills' production lines.

     Visual Novels 
  • In Higurashi no Naku Koro ni's Meakashi-hen, as completely insane and sadisitc is Shion Sonozaki is at this point, she's actually got a good point when she's calling Kimiyoshi out over Satoshi being treated unfairly due to Sins of Our Fathers. Might be a social commentary by the author, since it comes up again in Minagoroshi-hen.

     Web Original 

     Western Animation 
  • Justice League Unlimited:
    • Project Cadmus created several threats to the world, but they do have considerable ground to stand on for their actions: the League didn't tell anyone about their big Kill Sat, they themselves have made questionable decisions in the past, and the Justice Lords were able to take over their world with only six of the founding members.
    • On the other hand Cadmus makes rather terrible solutions that tend to turn from bad to worse. Such as creating Volcana, Doomsday, Ace (recruited -as a toddler)...just about every solution they come up with always goes rogue, and creates more harm than they hope to prevent.
    • The Justice Lord Batman pulled one of these on the League one in a scene that even the writers were unable to directly respond to.
    "And with that power we've made a world where no eight year old boy will EVER lose his parents because of some punk with a gun...."
  • Batman: The Animated Series:
    • Lock-Up points out that Arkham is a Cardboard Prison with a revolving door, and the villains keep coming back. This doesn't justify his excessive punishments, but it's telling that, when he shows up in the comics, Batman does briefly team up with him.
    • "Joker's Wild" inverts this when Batman, caught in one of the Joker's explosive death traps with which he also plans to level a casino, manages to talk his way out by pointing out to the Joker that he's playing into the casino owner's hands, since the guy is trying to get the casino destroyed as part of an insurance scam. Much as it infuriates him, Joker realizes Batman is right, and has to abandon his death trap to go settle accounts with the casino owner instead.
    Joker: "I hate it when you make sense!"
  • In The Batman Francis Grey's complaint about his 17 year sentence for stealing a small item.:
    Francis: I took a watch! Everything else was just an accident.
    • It wasn't just taking the watch that got him that time. His actions resulted in a destructive domino effect that resulted in massive damages. Accident or not he was still the ultimate cause of it.
  • In the Wonder Woman film Persephone's arguments about the wrongness of Hippolyta's hiding the Amazons away from Man's World:
    Hippolyta: "You were given a life of peace and beauty!"
    Persephone: "And denied one of families and children. Yes Hippolyta, the Amazons are warriors, but we are women too."
  • The Legend of Korra
    • The Equalists claims that benders are forcing non-benders to live as second class citizens. This belief carries some weight since the city is governed entirely by benders, the military and the police force mostly (if not entirely) consists of benders, the biggest sport in town is one that only benders can play, and benders get more job opportunities. (such as firebenders who power the generators with lightning) than non-benders.
    • Amon in particular mixes this with a What the Hell, Hero? speech after the Wolf-bats win the probending tournament through very, very obvious cheating. He shames the entire crowd for rewarding those who don't deserve it and he points out that benders who don't use their powers responsibly don't deserve to have them at all, before swiftly relieving them of that burden.
    • In the Season 2 finale, Korra realizes her Evil Uncle might have had a point with his plan to break the barrier between the Spirit World and the Material World, he just went about it in the wrong way (choosing to rule over both as an Evil Overlord instead of letting the two sides coexist peacefully).
    • Season 3 gives us Earth Queen Hou-Ting, who conscripts all of the new airbenders in Ba Sing Se as her personal army against their wills. While this is shown to be nothing but despicable, both she and Commander Bumi point out that as their monarch she really can conscript any of them she pleases.
    • The main villains of Season 3, Zaheer and his companions, want to remove all world leaders, plunging the world into chaos. Considering some of the authority figures we've already seen - the warmongering Fire Lords (one of whom carried out a genocide of the Air Benders) the inept President of Republic City and the cruel, vindictive Earth Queen - Zaheer has a very valid point.
  • In the original 1972 adaptation of The Lorax, the Once-ler tells the Lorax that if he shuts down production of the Thneed factories which are destroying the Truffula trees, it will put hundreds of workers and family members out of a job. Unfortunately, the Thneed production goes too far and the very last Truffula tree is cut down to make them, resulting in not only the permanent closing of the Once-ler's factory, but the complete destruction of a beautiful forest. And he is implied to regret this mistake.


Underestimating BadasseryMore than Meets the EyeWaif-Fu
Villain DecayCharacterization TropesVillainous Breakdown
Villainous FriendshipVillainsA Villain Named Zrg

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