"Picking a fight in a school? There's no way this makes sense."
Time and time again a story is told with the classic hero vs. villain
setup with the villain committing acts deemed evil by good, neutral, and the normally apathetic. The villain usually commits said acts for their own personal reasons. But wait, they have a justified reason for their actions? They may not be so much evil
as they are anti
. He may end up sending the hero into a depression
after his motives come to light? Here my friends is a villain who actually has a justified reason for being what he is. Due to the nature of their villainy if they become too excessive in their methods it may fall under Strawman Has a Point
and they can easily fall under as a Well-Intentioned Extremist
. In-universe they can also easily fall under Designated Villain
. Compare Jerkass Has a Point
and Ambiguously Evil
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Anime and Manga
- Yu Gi Oh ZEXAL has this with Kaito Tenjo. He believes the Numbers' cards are evil, and from what has been seen, the Numbers can easily make the good bad, (Ukyo, Fuya to a lesser extent) and the bad worse, (Jin, Rikuo, Kaio). Also, his claim that the Numbers want to destroy the world seems plausible, seeing the evil from Black Mist who was able to capture Astral and control Yuma's body against his will. In fact, the only issue with him capturing Numbers is that he takes the soul of the person who possessed it.
- In Bitter Virgin, maybe he doesn't exactly earn the title of "villain", but when Yamamoto grabs Hinako in the final chapter, setting himself up pretty nicely as one more in a long line of abusive bastards, he makes her realise that, without intending to, understandable though her reaction was, she has truly hurt the feelings of some of the guys in her class, most of whom wouldn't even dream of harming her the way her rapist did.
- In ElfQuest, Rayek realizes that the accident that brought the High Ones to the World of Two Moons is going to happen in the future, and the Palace is capable of time travel. He brings up the idea of going to that exact moment and preventing the High Ones from being sent into the past and driven from their home, and preempt centuries of struggle and suffering on their part. When Cutter objects, Rayek makes a point: the presence of elves has always negatively affected the World of Two Moons (going back to the first volume, when a human tribe caused a forest fire to drive the Wolfriders out), but they're literally aliens; the world had its own path before they arrived by accident, and it has a right to its own destiny. Of course, that point gets quickly lost in Rayek's otherwise power-hungry, elitist motivations, as well as his dismissal of the fact that, unless they are in the Palace, all elves born since the crash who are not dead and have their spirits tied to the Palace will never exist.*
- In Death Of The Family, The Joker tells Batman that having an network of allies has made Batman soft and weak, that they are only holding Batman back, and that Joker would be doing Batman a favour by getting rid of them. Judging from what he's pulling on Alfred, Commissioner Gordon, Batgirl, and Jason Todd, he might actually have a point there.
- Begrudgingly pointed out by Linkara, Mephisto does have justification why he doesn't want Peter's soul in "One More Day". The souls he collects would have the satisfaction that they have sacrificed themselves for the greater good, and Mephisto would lose any joy in making them suffer.
- Buffy the Vampire Slayer Season Eight: Simone Doffler goes rogue from Buffy's Slayer Organization largely because they repeatedly refuse to let the Slayers use guns. Aside from Buffy's general dislike of guns, the Scoobies really have no real reason to give her why not.
- In Jet Li's The One, his character Yulaw is wanted for murdering alternate versions of himself in parallel dimensions. In doing so the life force of the duplicates he kills is divided among the remaining parallel selves, making them stronger. When placed on trial early in the film for 123 counts of murder, Yulaw points out how can he possibly be guilty of murdering himself? He then goes on to say all their energy will simply go into a single individual. When one looks at the troubling implications of the multiverse regarding freewill, Yulaw's goal seems more like a subversion of predestination. Of course it's made clear he's lost all compassion due to his obsession.
Yulaw: "You call it murder. How could I murder myself, a hundred and twenty three times? I just took those wasted energies and put them into one container... me. It made me faster, smarter, stronger. What if that is our fate? To unite with our other selves. To be unified forever. To be one. I will be The One."
- Monsters University: Mike and Sulley accidently break Dean Hardscrabble's last memento of her scaring career, so she gives them a dressing down, by giving them hypothetical scenarios that they both fail, and get kicked out of the program for. She fails Mike immediately because as smart as he is, he's just not intimidating, and she fails Sulley because, while he's intimidating, he doesn't use his head to analyze and adapt to scaring situations. The film shows she's right about both, and they need to work together to be efficient.
- In Simon Bloom, Sirabetta, the Big Bad of the first book, is quite correct on how the Knowledge Union has some significant flaws.
- In Isaac Asimov's story "The Dead Past", the government agents trying to prevent the protagonists from learning the secret of viewing the past seem like a classic heavy-handed Government Conspiracy... until it turns out that they're simply trying to prevent privacy from being utterly destroyed by the dissemination of devices that can view any place at any past time from a century ago to a microsecond ago.
Happy goldfish bowl to you, to me, to everyone, and may each of you fry in hell forever. Arrest rescinded.
- Honorverse's Mesan Alignment is in the author's own opinion exactly right in its position on transhumanism and genetic engineering, it's their Utopia Justifies the Means ways that are wrong.
- Asimov's short story In A Good Cause... centres around two old friends, both initially part of a movement towards human federation in the face of the united alien empire of the Diaboli, with one remaining the idealist and getting arrested for it several times, and the other turning against him and gradually rising up in Earth's government. The first scene encourages the reader to sympathize with the idealist by establishing that there now is a united human federation, and it regards the idealist with respect and a bit of shame for repeatedly arresting him. Every time the two friends interact (the story uses large time-jumps to pass the time the idealist actually spends in prison), the one who turned against the movement chides the idealist for not being pragmatic enough. In the final scene where the two interact... the pragmatist's manipulations has led to the aliens being defeated and the human worlds moving towards federation, just as they both wanted all along.
- Skitter from Worm when talking to almost any hero or their bosses, pointing out that the system they belong to is damaged and imperfect, the heroes aren't as clean as they pretend, or, in one case, that they're deliberately trying to induce a hostage situation. The last one is so convincing that the hostages side with her.
- Dickinson (who's more of an Anti-Villain) in 1776. One of his main objections to independence is that a bunch of ill-trained militiamen has no chance of defeating the British armed forces, then the strongest in the world. It's a very good point, really.
- In Mega Man 9, Dr. Wily convinces Dr. Light's newest robot masters, all of whom are about to reach their expiration date and due to be recycled, that they shouldn't have to die because the law says so and that they can still live perfectly useful lives. While Wily is just saying this so he can use them to frame Dr. Light, he is right in that the robot masters are still sentient living beings that are being trashed because of the law and not by choice.
- Dr. M from Sly 3: Honor Among Thieves may be a terrible person to work with, a lab nut, and an overall Ineffectual Sympathetic Villain but he DID buy the island legally so everything is technically his and he could've claimed his right to kill Sly seeing that Sly invaded his land.
- Diablo III has your main character as his allies forced to negotiate with the ghost of Zoltum Kulle, an Obviously Evil villain who makes no attempt to hide the fact he is using you to be revived. During your cooperation, he passes most of the time explaining your character that he actually is a Well-Intentioned Extremist who want to awake Humans' true power, and that your own allies are manipulating you for their own purpose. At the end of Act III, it turns out one of your allies, Adria, was indeed using you to prepare Diablo's resurrection.
- Mundus in DmC: Devil May Cry mocks Dante's desire to free humanity by pointing out that humans had freedom before Mundus arrived, and "They fought. They killed. They starved." Vergil shares Mundus' opinion of humanity, to the point that he wants to rule humanity with Dante after Mundus' defeat.
- Darth Traya, from Knights of the Old Republic II, justifies her actions by proclaiming that the Force uses people as tools and that she wants to break free from the cycle of massive galactic wars by destroying it. Though she's the villain, she has a point: the wars between Jedi and Sith rage on for millennia afterward, with countless innocents in the crossfire and no end in sight.
- There's also the matter of a single Jedi or Sith being able to influence the entire galaxy. Is that sort of power something any one person should have when individuals will lay waste to everything just to obtain it?
- William Johnson in Assassin's Creed III in his Hannibal Lecture before his death claims that if the British control on the colonies was broken the colonists will encroach on the Native American lands and displace the inhabitants...something that obviously occurred in Real Life and is even later touched on in universe.
- The terrorist group Ilias Kreuz in Monster Girl Quest are a gang of criminals who show no mercy whatsoever toward monsters and slay them without hesitation. However, when these monsters also tend to show no mercy to humans whatsoever and either devour, enslave, or kill For the Evulz any human they encounter, it's kind of hard to not understand where Ilias Kreuz is coming from. Out of over 200 monsters, about 9 of them are actually friendly, and three of them had to be beaten in a fight first. They start attacking humans in chapter 3 again, by the way.
- The Big Bad of Arcanum: Of Steamworks & Magick Obscura, Kerghan, believes that the afterlife is far more peaceful and pleasant than existence as a mortal and therefore intends to act on the logical conclusion. As two certain party members who have died and been resurrected respectively raised as undead can confirm he is right.
- In Higurashi no Naku Koro ni's Meakashi-hen, as completely insane and sadisitc is Shion Sonozaki is at this point, she's actually got a good point when she's calling Kimiyoshi out over Satoshi being treated unfairly due to Sins of Our Fathers. Might be a social commentary by the author, since it comes up again in Minagoroshi-hen.
- Justice League Unlimited:
- Project Cadmus created several threats to the world, but they do have considerable ground to stand on for their actions: the League didn't tell anyone about their big Kill Sat, they themselves have made questionable decisions in the past, and the Justice Lords were able to take over their world with only six of the founding members.
- On the other hand Cadmus makes rather terrible solutions that tend to turn from bad to worse. Such as creating Volcana, Doomsday, Ace (recruited -as a toddler)...just about every solution they come up with always goes rogue, and creates more harm than they hope to prevent.
- The Justice Lord Batman pulled one of these on the League one in a scene that even the writers were unable to directly respond to.
"And with that power we've made a world where no eight year old boy will EVER lose his parents! Because of some punk with a gun..."
- One from Batman: Under the Red Hood, from the titular character. No matter how many times Joker may get slammed into Arkham, being the Cardboard Prison it is, he always returns at some point to wreak more havoc. While Batman does think about killing Joker, he fears about never coming back. However, among Batman's rogues gallery, Joker DOES have a higher kill count alone than most and will most likely never stop killing as long as he is able, so putting him behind bars or a padded room does no good. Yet because he's Batman, he won't take that step. Some people find it easy to side with Red Hood here, even though he is a bit demented.
- Batman: The Animated Series:
- Lock-Up, points out that Arkham is a Cardboard Prison with a revolving door, and the villains keep coming back. This doesn't justify his excessive punishments, but it's telling that, when he shows up in the comics, Batman does briefly team up with him.
- "Joker's Wild" inverts thiswhen Batman, caught in one of the Joker's explosive death traps with which he also plans to level a casino, manages to talk his way out by pointing out to the Joker that he's playing into the casino owner's hands, since the guy is trying to get the casino destroyed as part of an insurance scam. Much as it infuriates him, Joker realizes Batman is right, and has to abandon his death trap to go settle accounts with the casino owner instead.
Joker: "I hate it when you make sense!"
- The Legend of Korra
- The Equalists claims that benders are forcing non-benders to live as second class citizens. This belief carries some weight since the city is governed entirely by benders, the military and the police force mostly (if not entirely) consists of benders, the biggest sport in town is one that only benders can play, and benders get more job opportunities. (such as firebenders who power the generators with lightning) than non-benders.
- Amon in particular mixes this with a What the Hell, Hero? speech after the Wolf-bats win the probending tournament through very, very obvious cheating. He shames the entire crowd for rewarding those who don't deserve it and he points out that benders who don't use their powers responsibly don't deserve to have them at all, before swiftly relieving them of that burden.
- In the Season 2 finale, Korra realizes her Evil Uncle might have had a point with his plan to break the barrier between the Spirit World and the Material World, he just went about it in the wrong way (choosing to rule over both as an Evil Overlord instead of letting the two sides coexist peacefully).
- In The Batman Francis Grey's complaint about his 17 year sentence for just stealing minor item.:
Francis: I took a watch! Everything else was just an accident.
- It wasn't just taking the watch that got him that time. His actions resulted in a destructive domino effect that resulted in massive damages. Accident or not he was still the ultimate cause of it.
- In the Wonder Woman film Persephone's arguments about the wrongness of Hippolyta's hiding the Amazons away from Man's World:
Hippolyta: "You were given a life of peace and beauty!"
Persephone: "And denied one of families and children. Yes Hippolyta, the Amazons are warriors, but we are women too."
- In the second season finale of My Little Pony: Friendship Is Magic Queen Chrysalis brags to the cast that she managed to carry out her plan to take over Equestria even when Twilight Sparkle thinks something is wrong with Princess Cadence (who was actually Queen Chrysalis in disguise) thanks to all of Twilight Sparkle's friends for not believing her and coldly calling her out.