[[quoteright:324: http://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/VideoPhone_8235.jpg]]
[[caption-width-right:324:It's the wave of the future, but it's a shame [[{{Zeerust}} we couldn't find ways to improve those rotary dials or black-and-white cathode ray display]].]]

->''"It was a perennial technology of the future... But then out of nowhere the videophone was suddenly just here."''
-->-- '''[[http://blogs.smithsonianmag.com/paleofuture/2013/01/future-calling-videophones-in-the-world-of-the-jetsons/ Paleofuture]]''' at Smithsonian.com

An ''extremely'' common trope found in any stories told in [[TheFuture future]] or [[ScienceFiction high-tech]] settings (and, to a lesser extent, spy and espionage stories), a Video Phone (sometimes also referred to as a [[WeWillUseWikiWordsInTheFuture VidPhone]]) is a telecommunications device that functions exactly like a telephone but distinctly comes with a video screen which allows for the individuals on both ends of the call (and the audience) to see each other.

In some depictions, such a device may make use of an ordinary telephone receiver in order to speak to and hear the person on the other end, but most often characters usually just [[ScreensAreCameras talk to the screen]].

Like {{Flying Car}}s, {{Ray Gun}}s, and, of course, {{Jet Pack}}s, this is one of the most frequently observed tropes in depictions of TheFuture and originally popularized in the RaygunGothic era of ScienceFiction, but where most of these ubiquitous genre tropes [[IWantMyJetPack remain absent from our reality]], the Video Phone has been publicly available in one form or another since ''1936''; the German government ran public videophone booths prior to WWII, though these early trial services were disrupted by the war. AT&T opened the first public videophone booth in the US in 1964.

Despite this constant attention and the relative simplicity of the technology involved (Alexander Graham Bell himself talked about the possibility), lack of consumer interest kept it from going anywhere; the honest truth was that it seemed that despite all the sci-fi attention it received, the public didn't really ''want'' videophones, at least not at any significant price (apparently, those who wanted to see video phones in common use didn't bother to consider the fact that having the other person not being able to see your facial expression or any rude gesture you might feel like showing is arguably one of the more useful features of a regular phone). They only became broadly successful in the modern era once they became a secondary feature of mainstream computer technology, and even then, many would argue they remain little more than a novelty [[TheInternetIsForPorn outside of the porn business]] and people in long-distance relationships.

Their main relation to {{Zeerust}} is in a meta reasoning--twenty years ago when somebody wrote the movie, a video-phone even in the future would be considered an impossible pinnacle of technology but in fact has become common in its use.

Compare: CommLinks, for another Sci-Fi phone equivalent. See Also: PayPhone and PhoneBooth for more contemporary uses. For a breakdown on how such devices tend to operate in fiction, see HollywoodWebCam.

'''''Note:''' Given this trope's increased existence in RealLife, please refrain from listing work examples that use existing technologies in contemporary, early-21st-century settings. If a work example of a Video Phone is based on an existing consumer product, please only list the product as a real-life example, if it's not listed there already.''


[[folder:Anime and Manga]]
* These show up almost everywhere a regular phone would in ''Anime/{{Pokemon}}''.
* Commonly used in the original ''Anime/BubblegumCrisis''. Most notably, they had video payphones.
* ''Anime/CowboyBebop'''s in-universe equivalent to the cell phone uses video feeds on both ends of a call.
* Some were seen in ''Anime/NeonGenesisEvangelion''.
* ''Anime/GhostInTheShellStandAloneComplex''. Aramaki is talking via wallscreen to a contact. Although the screen shows the man in military uniform, he's actually in a bathrobe cutting his toenails.
* One episode of ''{{Anime/Doraemon}}'' features one of these using the house's television. The video feed was also (obviously) one-way.
* In ''Anime/CodeGeass'' the royals and military officials use these, complete with a large, fancy-framed screen in the palace for the Viceroy to video-chat with the Emperor on. Notably, the normal characters, like the students, are never seen using them, just voice phones.
* Video phones are used in the 1980s version of ''Anime/{{Gigantor}}'', ''The New Adventures Of Gigantor''. It's set [[TwentyMinutesIntoTheFuture in the 21st century]].

* Commonplace in ''ComicBook/JudgeDredd'' and its SpinOff stories where they're frequently called [[WeWillUseWikiWordsInTheFuture VidPhones]]. Models vary, sometimes having mic stands, ordinary phone receivers, or no visible microphones or speakers at all.
* [[Franchise/ArchieComics Veronica]] of the future once got one installed, only to switch back to normal phones because her friends called while she was doing face masks or when she'd just gotten up.
* The ''ComicBook/BlakeAndMortimer'' adventure "The Time Trap" depicts a dystopian far future in which communication takes place via camera-equipped wrist phones, for those who can afford them anyway.
* ''ComicBook/Marvel2099'' takes it to the next stage with the holo-phone. The first issue of ''ComicBook/SpiderMan2099'' opens with Miguel checking his messages:
-->'''Gabriel''': Hi, Miguel, it's me.
-->'''Miguel''': I ''know'' it's you, Gabe. Holo-phone, remember?
* A ComicBook/DonaldDuck comic book story had Donald and Daisy in the late 20th century trying out a video phone invented by Gyro Gearloose. One of the things Donald discovered while using the phone was that [[CovertPervert he could spy on Daisy putting on her makeup and doing her morning exercises without her knowing about it]]. That, and the expense of using such a phone, were among the reasons that Donald and Daisy gave up on using it.
* A ''ComicBook/RichieRich'' comic book story from the late 20th century had Richie contact his girlfriend Gloria Glad through a video phone on a camping trip she was on with her father. Being the sneaky fellow that he is, he also projects a video of himself speaking to Gloria through the ray of a flashlight.
* ''ComicBook/AtariForce'', published in the early 1980s, depicts a near-future world where video phones would be in use, even in the universe of New Earth where the series' second team would have their adventures.

[[folder:Fan Works]]
* In the ''Fanfic/EmpathTheLuckiestSmurf'' story "Smurfette's Evil Mirror", Smurfette's MagicMirror compact (see ''WesternAnimation/TheSmurfs'' entry in Western Animation below) becomes the basis for Handy developing the portable telesmurf for his fellow Smurfs, allowing them to communicate with each other via a magical video phone.

* ''Film/BackToTheFuturePartII'', TheFuture [=McFly=] household's video phone is connected to the television set. Personal information about the individual on the other end of the line is scrolled through on screen, including name, age, occupation, home address, spouse, children, and assorted hobbies and preferences. Video calling is also [[ProductPlacement sponsored by AT&T]].
** According to the novelization, Marty's daughter Marlena had special video glasses that also acted as a phone.
* ''JohnnyMnemonic'' opens with the main character making a call on a video phone that also doubles as a television and an alarm clock, all of which can be operated by remote control. Another such phone shows up in the back of a future taxi cab, and the Street Preacher has one hidden in his [[Literature/TheBible Bible]] (or whatever Holy Book equivalent he has). Video phone screens are also branded with [[ProductPlacement AT&T's company logo]], AT&T having tried to develop such technology since the 1960s.
* In ''Film/BladeRunner'', Deckard has a vidphone in his car, which he uses to call Sebastian's residence, only for his call to be answered by Pris. He also uses a public vidphone at Taffey Lewis' bar to place a call to Rachael, which is hilarious because a) [[TechnologyMarchesOn public telephones barely exist anymore]], let alone vidphones and b) [[RidiculousFutureInflation it costs $1.25]] for a call that barely lasts one minute.
* Featured in ''Film/UntilTheEndOfTheWorld''. Video payphones also take credit cards.
* ''Film/TwoThousandOneASpaceOdyssey'' featured a videophone in a phone booth, in a rotating space station. At the end, it indicates a call from the Moon to the Earth, taking several minutes, costs a mere $1.85. As so many others, the call is [[ProductPlacement sponsored by AT&T]].
* In ''Film/StarshipTroopers'', Johnny Rico is talking to his parents in Buenos Aires via Video Phone [[spoiler: when the Bug asteroid hits the city.]]. This call is also [[ProductPlacement sponsored by AT&T]].
* A video phone appears in the 1929 silent movie ''Film/HighTreason''.
* Film/AustinPowers has one in his car. Very helpful for [[MisterExposition Basil Exposition]] to talk to him.
* Ro-Man in ''Film/RobotMonster'' uses a video linkup to make contact with the last surviving enclave of humans on Earth, as well as Great Guidance on the planet Ro-Man.
* These are used in the original ''{{Film/Total Recall|1990}}'' a lot. In the movie, talking to someone on Mars was as easy as phoning them up on Earth. In fact, Cohaagen (when on Mars) uses his vid phone to call Richter (on Earth) without any technical difficulties. Until Richter pulls the FakeStatic trick, blaming sunspot interference.
* ''Film/{{Aliens}}''. Burke leaves MyCard in case Ripley changes her mind about going on the mission to find out what happened to the colony on [=LV426=]. After her next CatapultNightmare, Ripley sticks the card in her videophone where it automatically connects her to a sleepy Burke.
* They appear in ''Film/DemolitionMan''. John Spartan gets a wrong number from a [[{{Fanservice}} topless chick]].
* The Creator/ArnoldSchwarzenegger vehicle ''Film/The6thDay'' interestingly showcased a video phone call with an automated machine... for 911 Emergencies.
* Seen in ''Film/{{Metropolis}}'' which, made in 1927, is a likely candidate for being the UrExample.
* ''Film/{{Spaceballs}}'':
-->'''Barf:''' I'll just put it on audio. That way they won't see ya. ''(activates a switch)'' 'Yello.\\
'''Vinnie:''' ''(appearing on video screen)'' Hello, Lone Starr.\\
'''Barf:''' Sorry, wrong switch.
** Also when President Skroob is in the toilet and the mirror in front of him suddenly turns into a wallscreen. He is not amused, especially when his female NumberTwo [[CovertPervert tricks him into exposing himself]] while giving the Spaceball salute.
* Some of the only dialogue in Creator/CharlieChaplin's ''Film/ModernTimes'' comes from the factory boss pestering people via videophone, including when poor Charlie tries to take a badly needed break.
-->"Hey! Get back to work!"
* The interocitor in ''Film/ThisIslandEarth'' counts.
* Spoofed in the second ''Film/{{Airplane}}'' movie. Someone on the moonbase turns on a screen and after some static and wavy lines appear is able to get through to Creator/WilliamShatner. There's a brief conversation, then Shatner opens the door in front of him to reveal he was talking to the man through a window.
* In ''Film/CasinoRoyale1967'' movie Sir James Bond calls Vesper on the video ShoePhone while she's getting dressed. She indignantly covers the camera until she hears Bond signing off, only to remove her hand to see Bond looking downwards expectantly.
* ''Literature/SevenDaysInMay''. The White House and Pentagon use video teleconferencing in their TwentyMinutesIntoTheFuture world.
* ''Film/ProjectMoonbase''. The female President of the United States speaks to the brave astronauts who've just landed on the moon via a [[SpecialEffectsFailure hole in the wall]].
* ''Film/TheCrazies1973''. A video link is set up with the President of the United States so he can, if required, authorize the use of nuclear weapons to contain the virus. As the President spends the entire conversation [[InvisiblePresident sitting with his back to the camera]], one wonders why Creator/GeorgeRomero didn't just have him talking over a telephone speaker.
* In 1935's ''TransatlanticTunnel'', video phones are accepted as standard communication.
* ''StarWars'' have holographic technology that transmit a full body image of who's talking.
* Played with in ''The Osterman Weekend''. A CoincidentalBroadcast (actually a video feed) on the illicit use of Swiss bank accounts appears on television as part of the MindScrew tactics being used against an alleged ring of traitors. At one point the CIA agent in charge uses the video feed to speak directly to the protagonist (who is working for him), only to have an OhCrap moment when the link won't turn off when someone else enters the room. The CIA man then pretends he's an anchorman giving a news report.
* Video phone booths appear in the futuristic Los Angeles of ''[[Film/TheLawnmowerMan The Lawnmower Man 2: Jobe's War]]''.
* In ''Film/RomyAndMichelesHighSchoolReunion'', a video phone appears in a dream sequence, depicting a future where the title characters continue their argument with each other from their high school reunion into old age.
* In ''Film/RoboCop3'', video phones appear in use by the citizens of old Detroit in the near-future world.

* These are [[AuthorAppeal a standard part of future technology]] in Creator/RobertAHeinlein's novels.
* Mocked in a passage in ''Literature/InfiniteJest'' which describes how widespread videophone use made people increasingly concerned about their physical appearance, leading to most people wearing elaborate masks whenever they used the phone (and, later, just switching back to normal phones).
* The ''Literature/AliceGirlFromTheFuture'' series sees all characters use these--and '''only''' these--phones.
* ''Literature/TheEarTheEyeAndTheArm'' has "holo-phones", owned by all but the most destitute characters.
* A minor plot point in Shepherd Mead's ''Literature/TheBigBallOfWax'' is that by "now" (1999) videophones have colour but aren't stereoscopic -- yet. (Some TV game shows operate on a phone-in basis, so this is a minor annoyance to producers and viewers alike.)
* These are ubiquitous in the Literature/MoreauSeries
* These are common in ''Franchise/NoonUniverse'' by ''Creator/StrugatskyBrothers''. In some occasions characters uses them without turning on video option.
* In the short story ''Die Fernschule'' ("The Long-Distance School") by [[Creator/KurdLasswitz Kurd Laßwitz]], published in 1902 and set in 1999, the video phone or ''Fernlehrapparat'' ("Long-Distance Teaching Device") is used for education.
* Creator/DamonKnight's novella ''Dio/The Dying Man'' takes place in a far-off almost-utopian future. We have videophones, still called phones. They appear to be stand-alone consoles with built-in light-up phonebooks where you choose the sector, group and name of the person you're calling. Operators have been replaced by robots called autosecs. Because most people move around a lot, frequent updates of your registration are important.

[[folder:Live-Action TV]]
* Pee-wee Herman's Picturephone on ''Series/PeeWeesPlayhouse'' played with the idea of "two cans on a string" found on old-fashioned playhouses/treehouses by depicting the receiver as a tin can on a telephone cord. Amusingly, in Pee-Wee's world, ''everyone'' has a Picturephone.
* In ''Film/TheStarWarsHolidaySpecial'', Chewbacca's family uses one of these hidden in some kind of dresser to contact the other characters associated with the Rebel Alliance--Luke and R2-D2, Leia and C-3PO, etc.--to ask about Chewie and Han Solo's whereabouts. In a separate instance, Chewie's wife, Mala, contacts Art Carney with a device that doubles as a television which Carney's character refers to as a "wall screen."
* ''Series/MaxHeadroom'' featured many video phone conversations.
* In ''Series/KnightRider'', KITT is equipped with one. [=KI3T=] can use the windshield to project a multipart videoconference, to a similar effect.
* Made sporadic appearances in the second season of ''Series/WarOfTheWorlds''.
* ''Series/TheOuterLimits1963'' episode "The Duplicate Man" had video phones with rotary dials.
* ''Series/{{Warehouse 13}}'' has a very DieselPunk version, made by and named after Philo Farnsworth, one of the inventors of TV.
* Seemed commonplace in ''Series/RobocopTheSeries''.
* General Beckman's interchanges with the ''Series/{{Chuck}}'' team mostly happen through one of these, as do liaisons between the 'Castle' and various field operatives.
* Everyone in ''Series/EarthFinalConflict'' has a Global, a cellphone-sized device with an ejectable touchscreen that allows face-to-face video chats. It is also a [=GPS=] and has several other functions. Pretty much a modern smartphone.
* These were one of the few indications that most of the early-1970s ''Series/DoctorWho'' UNIT stories were meant to be TwentyMinutesIntoTheFuture.
* ''Series/{{UFO}}''
** Multiple examples in the episode "The Dalotek Affair".
*** Commander Straker is called on one of these by Blake, the president of the Dalotek corporation.
*** Commander Straker talks to Colonel Foster on the Moon using one.
*** The Dalotek base on the Moon uses one when Blake calls them.
*** SHADO operatives in the SHADO HQ on Earth and Moonbase on the Moon talk to each other over one.
** "The Responsibility Seat". Another Moon-Earth conversation, this time between Colonel Foster and Colonel Freeman.
* In the various ''Franchise/StarTrek'' series, the characters communicate with visual communication links as often as they use audio only. The main difference is that in the [[Series/StarTrekTheOriginalSeries Original Series]], the crew itself typically communicates with each other with a visual element only when there is something that one of the respondents should see, such as the mysterious probe in "The Corbomite Maneuver."
* ''Series/StarTrekVoyager'':
** B'Elanna Torres has one in her sonic shower [[{{fanservice}} for no logical reason]], and is understandably annoyed when an impatient EMH calls her there in the episode "Drone".
-->"[[ImADoctorNotAPlaceholder I'm a doctor, not a peeping Tom]]. It's nothing I haven't seen before."
** This trope saves Neelix's life in "Investigations". [[TheMole Jonas]] is sneaking up behind [[YouKnowTooMuch Neelix]] with a [[MakeItLookLikeAnAccident laser welder]], when the Doctor happens to make a call. As the Doctor can see everything in the room, Jonas quickly stops what he's doing.
** The imagizers in "Bride of Chaotica!", an AffectionateParody of ''ComicStrip/FlashGordon'', use the same activation sound effect as the video phones in that series.
* ''Series/TotalRecall2070'': Ubiquitous in the future setting, usually with the detectives communicating with each other this way while they each go off on seperate assignments.
* ''{{Series/Raumpatrouille}}'' made use of video phones a lot. You could also disable the video function if you wanted to.

[[folder:Magazines and Newspaper Comics]]
* ComicStrip/DickTracy has a "2-Way Wrist TV" that carries the same function and used to communicate with police headquarters.
* One ''ComicStrip/{{Dilbert}}'' strip involves Dilbert being the first person in the city to own a videophone. He then sits next to the phone, waiting for someone else to buy one so he can call them.
* ''Magazine/{{Mad}}'' once did an article showing pulldown backdrops - a glamorous resort one at a fleabag motel to con clients, a sickroom backdrop at the ballpark for calling your boss, an office one at the bar for calling your wife, and so on...

[[folder:Puppet Shows]]
* Common in ''Series/{{Thunderbirds}}''. The most prominent use was the family portraits in the lounge area, which could switch from a static image that appeared to be a photograph to a live video feed ([[FridgeLogic how Brains solved the problem of screen burn-in is a mystery for the ages]]), but occasionally commercial units about the size of a PayPhone showed up. [[Series/ThunderbirdsAreGo The reboot]] upgraded to holographic displays.

* Alan Ayckbourn's sci-fi play ''Henceforward'' features a video phone, though it's never answered; people just leave messages.

[[folder:Video Games]]
* ''VideoGame/HalfLife2'' features several Video Phone calls, notably between Alyx and her father. Extra points for touching the screen to emphasize the separation.
* In ''Franchise/DeadSpace'', Isaac has an ultra hi-tech video phone with a projected [[HolographicInterface holographic screen]] as part of the RIG suit's [[CommLinks Comm Link]]. While the transmission is monochrome blue in ''VideoGame/DeadSpace'', the more advanced systems is ''VideoGame/DeadSpace2'' are in full-color.
** Fun fact: the videophone's camera location is ''not'' {{Hand Wave}}d like one would expect with a holographic Video Phone. In all communications, it's either on the wrist of the characters, or, more frequently, embedded into one of the nearby walls. Which means that [[EverythingIsOnline the RIG is constantly on-line]] with the station/ship that Isaac is on.
* In the {{Science Fiction Visual Novel|s}} ''VisualNovel/BionicHeart'', video phones are common. Luke is seen using a smaller version in his apartment, then a large-screened version that fills an entire room at his office.
* Holographic video phones exist throughout the VideoGame/DeusEx series and seem to be as common as a house phone by the last (chronological) game, VideoGame/DeusExInvisibleWar.
* In ''VideoGame/TheDayTheWorldBroke'', this is your means of contact with Julius and Bud while inside the Earth's core.

* ''Webcomic/FarOutThere'' features video phones capable of communicating across vast interstellar distances. However, the technology doesn't seem to be quite as commonplace as other sci-fi settings. Only a few quarters on board The Exposition come equipped with their own private video phone, most passengers have to use [[http://faroutthere.smackjeeves.com/comics/1910378/page-618-yackity-yack/ the]] [[http://faroutthere.smackjeeves.com/comics/1912177/page-619-thats-only-the-business-suites/ public]] [[http://faroutthere.smackjeeves.com/comics/1914447/page-620-begone/ phones]]. Further evidence suggests that most homes or ships only have one.

[[folder:Web Original]]
* Literature/TheJournalEntries has a form commonly used for communicating between organics and androids of organic appearance (and Ken has a standing directive that the AIs managing his end are to put a noticeable image degradation in so that the image isn't uncomfortably real for him). Fixed AIs (for ships, buildings, regions, etc.) usually either just talk as a voice out of the air (most commonly the sky or ceiling, as most organics tend to look upward when speaking to AIs) or use a holographic projection (of the sort of body they would like if they were an organic) as a point of reference.

[[folder:Western Animation]]
* One episode of ''WesternAnimation/TheSimpsons'' taking place in the future, "Lisa's Wedding," showcased a conversation between Lisa and Marge using a "picture phone." Marge kept forgetting that Lisa could see her over the phone, and her body language made it more obvious to tell when she was lying.
* Frequently seen in ''WesternAnimation/TheJetsons'', fitting the show's RaygunGothic aesthetic. The drawbacks are sometimes used for laughs such as the women have morning masks which are supposed to be quickly put on in case of calls coming in before they have made themselves up.
* In ''WesternAnimation/{{COPS}}'', videophones are the norm to the point that even public phone booths have screens; they are, after all, fighting crime in a future time. And yes, cell phones pretty much don't exist.
* Videophone technology is available in ''WesternAnimation/{{Futurama}}''; the main characters often also use cellular phones which resemble more modern phones but with built-in video.
* The title protagonists of ''WesternAnimation/TeenageMutantNinjaTurtles1987'' have "turtle communicators", which resemble flip-top cellphones, only shaped like a turtle shell, and containing a video screen and camera.
* In ''{{WesternAnimation/ReBoot}}'', this is how most calls are made, either by opening a vidwindow or over a device like [[EmpathicWeapon Glitch's]] or Dot's organizer, which includes a 'communicator' among its functions. Voice-only communication is uncommon, but does happen occasionally.
* WesternAnimation/DangerMouse has a video communication wall in his pillar box headquarters. He also has one in his car.
* In ''WesternAnimation/TheSmurfs'' episodes "The Smurfette" and "Smurfette Unmade", Smurfette and Gargamel use {{Magic Mirror}}s in this particular fashion when Smurfette was an "un-Smurf". Smurfette had hers [[ShoePhone hidden in a compact]], making it look like a flip-top cell phone.
* The ''WesternAnimation/{{Superfriends}}''' [=TroubAlert=] has video communications technology that national leaders and even their enemies, the Legion of Doom, have made use of to contact them.

[[folder:Real Life]]
* Most laptop computers now come with in-built webcams. Fancy-pants video streaming software, such as Skype or Google Talk, turns it into a Video Phone:
* Pretty much every smartphone allows for two people with the phone to engage face-to-face calls, incorporating both the device's camera and speakerphone capabilities. Interoperability, however, is another matter[[note]]Video calling outside of home operators is a hit-or-miss affair, as some operators do not allow video calls to leave their home network. Also, while most cellphones adhere by the ITU 3G video call specification, Apple chose to implement their own Facetime system on the iPhone instead, meaning that an iPhone can ''never'' accept video calls from 3G video-compliant phones, nor can it place direct video calls to 3G video-compliant phones. This is made even worse since 2010 as newer smartphones made since then chose to eschew the ITU 3G video call specification in favor of letting the user choose a video call app, which means that there is technically no interoperability and a user may need to have several video call apps just to contact all of his[=/=]her friends.[[/note]].
* There are several phone apps that allow for video communications regardless of platform or provider, such as Skype for Android/iPhone or Snapchat.
* Some 3G feature phones[[note]]Phones that you cannot install apps to extend the features, but is still internet aware by means of a built-in and stripped down web browser[[/note]] can do video calls, using the ITU 3G video call specification.
* Business video conferencing systems, which record video and sound of an entire meeting room and project it on a big screen to allow people at other locations to join in.
* Cisco Systems has produced several telecommunication devices which make long-distance face-to-face conversations possible that the company has notably been showcasing in an advertisement campaign with Creator/EllenPage.
* CUE NET and similar devices.
* As described above and in The Other Wiki, [[UsefulNotes/NaziGermany the German Reichspost]] ran a public videophone service in ''1936'', though it was shut down due to WWII.
* AT&T opened its first public videophone booths in the US -- the Picturephone Mod I -- in 1964, and was predicting a landline based/dedicated-hardware videophone as late as 1993. These were even on the market for a while in the US, but too few people wanted them for it to be commercially viable in the long term and they mostly just faded away.