It's Easy, So It Sucks Discussion - Television Tropes & Idioms

Working Title: It's Easy So It Sucks: From YKTTW

AdmiralRufus: Fixed the edit on Super Smash Bros. No disrespect, but I really don't think the person accusing wavedashing, L-cancelling and other techs of being glitches knows what they're talking about. Wavedashing is at worst an exploit

, and L-cancelling was in the first game.

The real reason that Melee fans prefer melee is because of the faster gameplay, more hitstun, and better character balance. Some might argue that that Brawl's emphasis on items and removal of advanced techs is the way the game was "meant to be played", but this troper insists that the only true way to play Smash is however the hell we want. That's why there's an option to turn different items/stages off.

I also have to agree that this article reeks of casual bitterness, not to say that comptetitve gamers can't be annoying stop having fun guys.

Santander02: Okay I think we have yet another example in which a trope description has a different tone than the examples, with many of those examples showing games were lack of challenge was a genuine criticism among most people that played them (or making it look like it) and the Trope body describing that people saying that a game sucks because it has no challenge is Fan Dumb, also, it's full of stereotypical assumptions about hardcore gamers, I am pretty sure they hated the Fake Difficulty that Nintendo Hard games had and appreciate the improvements done to user interfaces as much as anybody, is just that with games becoming a more mainstream medium, games are intentionally made easy because publishers believe the "average" person won't be able to play challenging games

Neophos: Wow, the tone is trope is written in seems to outright state that if you like hard games, you're an elitist prick. In That Other Wiki terms, it's lacking a fair bit in NPOV.

Tanto: With all due respect, we're not about NPOV.

i8246i: No, but we are about "tropes are not cliches"...and this page is definitely trite and boring.

Santander02: No one here is demanding that all games should be made Nintendo Hard so I don't know why you started that rant. There is no rule about NPOV here, but that is because we are supposed to take things easy an make reading this site fun, not so people can start making up tropes about things they don't like, (and for the record there is actually a guideline about how we should write that most people seem to miss) if the tone of this trope comes off as bitter then there is nothing wrong about making it sound more neutral.

Tanto: The original version of this page explains why games have become easier, in general: Originally, games were very short, so the difficulty was mostly added to pad the gameplay and to keep people verbing coin. In addition, they often had low production values which made it difficult to figure out what you were supposed to do or how. Your version says (in addition to having atrocious punctuation and grammar) "Publishers don't have any respect for real gamers, so they keep dumbing games down." In addition to being blatantly untrue, this doesn't tell us anything about the trope or the reasons it exists. It's basically just an apologetic justification for the attitude described in the trope — in other words, a bitch about how nobody understands you — and has no content to speak of.

Santander02:Excuse me for my "atrocious" grammar, I am not a native English speaker and while I didn't saw anything grammatically wrong with what I wrote before, I do get it wrong now and then. As for your points: I never intended to make it sound that "Publishers don't have any respect for real gamers" and I can't see how I am saying that they are "dumbing games down" , do not put words in my mouth, first off games ARE being being made deliberately less difficult now days, developers have expressed plenty of times that they want to make games to be more "accessible" and "simplified" so that people that do not have much experience with games can get into them more easily, and you know I don't find anything wrong with that! If they can get more people to get into games, then all the better, I am sure that eventually they'll want to play challenging games as well, I even explained that developers also include different difficulty settings to accommodate different kinds of gamers so I don't know were did you get the idea that they don't care about "real" gamers, whatever that means.

As for your explanation of why games have become easier, I think is wrong as well, It makes it sounds like anybody who complains about a game being too easy must want every game to be as hard as NES games, fake difficulty and everything, just how many people still play NES games or go to arcades anyway? the comparisons about difficulty in games is mostly done between games that are separated by a few years or a decade at the most and even then I doubt most of those gamers got to play the NES, which came around in mid eighties, so this sort of complains aren't about wanting to keep the technological limitation of that era

And by the way I enjoy newer games just as well as older games and I do think that there are people that try to force what they find challenging on others so try to be a bit more civil before accusing someone of whining and bitching.

Insanity Prelude: In response to the Devil May Cry examples- if Nero's so useless without the Devil Bringer, explain why I used sword attacks more than anything for his part of the game. ;) Not that I'm arguing against it being an easier game than its predecessors. I mean, I did beat the supposed That One Boss on my second try. XP I just felt like making a nitpicky comment.

The Nifty: I can't really be bothered editing it to fix this, but I third Neophos and Santander02's criticism of the description. Making a game so easy that it's boring to play is an actual design flaw, so having the description to this trope essentially attack anyone who finds a game too easy as an elitist mean-spirited whiner who should SHUT THE FUCK UP GODDAMMIT HOW DARE YOU HAVE AN OPINION DIFFERENT TO MINE!!! (OK, a bit of hyperbole, but it is very defensive and negative at present) isn't really very helpful. It smacks of bitterness, it isn't descriptive or the trope, and it's the sort of thing that's likely to provoke an edit-war.

Chad M: I'll roll it around for a bit tonight. While I do see the argument that this page sounds a little to hostile to anyone that actually wants a challenging game, it is a real trope and there are people who think all games should be hard and anyone who doesn't long for Nintendo Hard games is an imbecile. There are also people who will rail against any decrease in difficulty in a game or serious no matter how fake the difficulty was in the first place (see: attunement requirements in World of Warcraft). I think some people on this page are taking things personally.

Falchion: Post-NS 13 Naughty Sorceress in Ko L anyone?

Tsunde Ray: Maybe I should whip up It's Hard, So It Sucks?

The Noun: I think we need that. Some examples in Nintendo Hard seem like that's where they'd belong if it existed.

Navian: This page is so terrible... There are games that are ruined by being too easy! I've played so many awesome simulations and strategy games ruined by infinite resources, near-instantaneous build times, zero-maintenance costs and dumb, low-powered enemies. Tedious, challengeless RPG battles are even worse. Accessibility is nice, but the article is written in such a way that it ignores how so many games are developed with no way to make them fun to a competant player without adding fake difficulty—often the game doesn't even give you the option! (I'd like someone less biased and angry to do the overall, I think...)

The Noun: Y'know, in some ways I agree. There sometimes are games that are rendered boring due to being too simple. This article could definitely use a change in tone.

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