Working Title: Love It Or Hate It:
From YKTTW
Vampire Buddha: Note to editors - this trope is
not subjective. People's opinions about shows are subjective, but the presence of a vicious, flameworthy split in opinion among people in general is an objective fact.
- Marimite: they even used "You Either Love It Or Hate It" as their advertising slogan.
Gracie Lizzie:Is that intentional humor or a funny mistake. MARmite is a yeast extract that has nothing to do with a
Girls Love Schoolgirl Lesbians series. In fact as someone pointed out to me once (not in these exact words)... Yeast + Lesbians = Ew.
Vampire Buddha: I'm pretty sure I wrote 'Marmite'. I guess someone else got the wrong idea.
Vampire Buddha: Whoever keeps changing Marmite to
Marimite, please stop. Marmite is something you spread on toast.
Marimite is a show about Catholic
Schoolgirl Lesbians.
Good lord Twilight is disliked. If someone finds out you like it, prepare to start crying relentlessly from their torment. Granted that there is an entire forum dedicated to reporting Violent Twilight-Fan attacks, but
they started it first. Meyers took an idea, a concept, and molded it into something new. Yes, they sparkle. Get over it.
fleb: Hi. Not trying to be rude, but... what does that have to do with this page or anything written on it? New conversation topics go at the bottom. (This whole section is entirely out of date and just archived here anyway, hence the big notice at the top and the "folder" markup.)
Ruthie A: Do people really hate
Terry Pratchett? Admittedly, I haven't really searched the internet for reviews of his work, but I find it hard to believe that anyone could actually despise his books. I mean, I can imagine some people thinking that his books aren't really their cup of tea, but to really hate them, I don't quite understand. Can someone explain this to me?
Vampire Buddha: It was posted on the
YKTTW thread. I guess he's the sort of person where his humour is excellent if you get it and stupid if you don't.
Also, the first few books can be a bit preachy at times.
Ross N: I dunno...
Equal Rites is fairly preachy but most of the more preachy books seem more recent -
Jingo and
Making Money.
As someone who doesn't agree with a lot of Terry Pratchett's views, but enjoys the books anyway I can see how some of them might bother people. I'd say that might be a small minority though.
wia: In my experience, the love/hate relationship in the Final Fantasy series tends to be Love one, hate the other out of 8 and 9 or X-2 and the rest of the series. Most of the people I know who like 8 liked 7 as well. 5 and *especially* X-2 probably deserve entries purely on their own merits.
Sciatrix: Removed section below for being conversation on the page.
- Ugh, $5 for a meal the size OF A PACK OF DENTAL FLOSS/TOOTHPICKS! Tell me about it.
- $5!! what chic restaurant was that??, i paid 10$ for a salad that looked good but tasted like grass.
Andrew: Do the Shakespeare examples really qualify as works that polarize critics and fans? Othello, King Lear and Macbeth are universally regarded as some of Shakespeare's best plays and have been produced literally thousands of times over the years. I'm really not aware of a massive fanbase that says, "I hate
Macbeth so much!" That some are troubled by perceived misogyny is a perfectly legitimate criticism, but not relevant to this specific trope.
Sketch: Okay, Mr.
thatother1dude, it seems you have a problem with Avatar's mention in this page since you removed its entry twice without explanation so how about discussing it here before you remove it a
third time? There are people out there who are saying that Book 3 started out less impressively then the previous two and that some episodes were flat out unnecessary (Like "The Painted Lady" though certainly not as bad as "The Great Divide") or just plain boring. Heck someone here even attempted to put Avatar under
Seasonal Rot! (check its
discussion page)
Obviously there's many who think Book 3 has just been peachy so that's why I thought it warranted mention in this trope. Remember
Tropes Are Not Bad so it's not like Avatar's entry here is implying that the show is bad or whatever reason that's making you hate it here.
Later: And now somebody's removed
Arrested Development for no reason! Guys, if you have some issue with something that's here, discuss it here before you completely remove it!
Trogga: Someone on the page disagreed with it; isn't that enough? (Man, why don't we have edit summaries?)
Shale: So if someone disagrees with including a series on a page about series that people disagree on the quality of...wouldn't that just prove it belongs there in the first place? (Also, I can back up the existence of the "season 3 is rubbish" faction, being a member of it myself.)
Trogga: I just that I've never heard anyone say they hate it... they either love it or never watched it. (I'm in the second category. And seriously, why don't we have edit summaries?)
That Other 1 Dude: (on Avatar) Well, most importantly, there's the fact that the seasons isn't over yet, and many of the people saying it's boring are forgetting that both of the other seasons started out pretty slow. Anyway, I removed it because it's not mostly half of the fandom loves it, the other half hates it. While it's not universally considered the best season, singnificantly less than half of the of the fandom out-and-out hate it, and there are a large number of opinions in-between.
EDIT: Sketch, if you disagree, you have to post something within a couple days or I'm going to move on. Also, I think this article is split between two similar yet different things:
- Things that are liked and dissliked by roughly the same number of people
- Things that most people either love or absolutely hate
I think the third season might count for the first, but likely not for the second.
Sketch: I apologize for not responding to this sooner. Honestly, it...kinda slipped my mind. Sorry.
Anyway, I don't agree with that it has to be something that everyone either really, really loves or really, really hates. I'll concede that I've yet to meet anyone that absolutely hates the third season (people that already absolutely hate Avatar notwithstanding), but I still think the fact that it's fan reaction is mixed is enough to qualify. I mean, if we limit this article to stuff that many people either really love or really hate instead of thing that generally receive mixed reviews than there are a lot of things in this article that don't really qualify. Should they be removed, too?
Elihu: Yes. Avatar simply doesn't qualify here: there are bushels of people who are generally okay with the series, just watching it on Nick when it happens to be on. It's not really a hot button issue, the series or the third season. Also, I really feel that mixed fan reaction is an entirely different matter that could relate more to
Broken Base, which is slowly melding with this page. As per the definition of the trope, I'm removing Avatar.
Vampire Buddha: I've given the examples section a bit of a going over and trimmed out some of the
natter:
- For that matter, Final Fantasy VI and Final Fantasy VII. This editor has yet to find anyone who liked them both equally. In his opinion, the former was the finest thing the franchise ever produced, while the latter, while not a truly bad game, was probably the worst thing to come from the series (Final Fantasy XI is an MMORPG, so it doesn't count).
- (raises hand) Having played VI, VII, and VIII, I can say I liked them all equally.
- Ironically enough, the editor who wrote that line originally (I.E. me) liked them both equally.
- For that matter, the entire Final Fantasy series. This guy refuses to accept a game as an RPG unless it lets you create your own character and gives you some real input into their development.
- Two Words: ADVENT. CHILDREN.
- I thought those complaints were just standard complaints by stupid reviewers in general.
- This troper has failed to get any of her friends into the series because of all the reading.
- Given the mixed reviews of the fourth movie (mostly over the whole aliens thing), perhaps there's an even-odd pattern for this franchise not unlike the Star Trek movies?
Most notable
Octopussy, especially for having Roger Moore in a clown suit, a crocodile costume and a giant Killer Yo-Yo of Death.
- You rang? This Troper saw a few episodes and thought it neither brilliant nor incredibly stupid.
Rogue 7: VB, is there any reason that you pulled the Uchiha apart from the fact that he's not an actual show, merely a character in it? Because I don't think that's sufficient grounds for deletion. He's incredibly polarizing- he's listed under
Ensemble Darkhorse, and several people have tried to put him in
The Wesley.
Vampire Buddha: It took me about ten minutes of searching the entry, the edit history, and
Wikipedia to figure out you were talking about Sasuke from
Naruto, given that the word 'Uchiha' was never used in the article text. Please, be more clear in future. Before I did this search, I had no idea who or what Uchiha was (it's Sasuke's surname, for those who don't know).
Anyway, I originally cut that out from the Anime section because I meant to stick him under the Characters section, but forgot about it. He's back now.
Rogue 7: Apologies for the vagueness. I guess not everyone's as big a
Naruto fan as I am.
Trogga: How??
Dalantia: After seeing some pretty fierce arguments on other fora, along with some pretty sharp divides in opinion re:
Zero Punctuation, I added it to this page. I think it's a good candidate.
Austin: Just wanted to point out, Teen Titans had A LOT more problems than just being an unfaithful adaptation.
- Speaking of Xbox 360 RPGs, let's not (or let's) forget Eternal Sonata, which is either a fantastic game with a revolutionary concept, a wonderful story, charming characters, deep and meaningful symbolism and an innovative battle system, or a disgraceful mess with a good but entirely underused concept, a cliched, simplistic and completely stupid story, boring characters, Anvilicious and poorly explained symbolism and an unchallenging and repetitive battle system.
Nezumi: Does
Eternal Sonata really have the sort of divide this trope indicates? I admit I haven't followed a lot, but the response I've seen seems overwhelmingly positive, with only a handful of detractors. I suspect this is more
Complaining About Shows You Dont Like, but I'd like to run it by the rest of you before I just remove this.
Nezumi: No response, but the same troper who added it has since demonstrated it
is just
Complaining About Shows You Dont Like, as he's similarly added
Eternal Sonata to
Rule Abiding Rebel, a trope it doesn't really belong to, and which he gives specious justification regarding it using an evil king plotline to add. Cutting from both.
Lord Seth: Deleted:
Because, as it mentions in the article's description, something that's overwhelmingly positive with a few detractors
isn't an example of this trope.
Man Without A Body: It's not a few detractors. There are quite a few people who thought that that movie was a hideous pile.
fleb: Who are these people and how have we not heard of them til now?
(Torches And Pitchforks! Burn The Witch! ...ahem. Sorry.)
MWAB again:
We Are Everywhere, you totalitarian asshole.
Anyway, Trogga cut Wall-E again:
HeartBurn Kid: Trimmed this:
- Do not compare fish that has been put in lye to duck eggs that have been preserved in the relatively normal clay, ash, salt, lime, and rice straw
Because 1, it's
Natter, and 2, lye is fairly common in food processing (as
Alton Brown demonstrated, it's what gives soft pretzels their beautiful shiny brown color).
Elihu:Clean up...
There's too many entries now. This is slowly becoming
Anything Thats Ever Had Someone Say It Wasnt The Best Thing Ever. The spirit of the trope is that there is heavy divide and neither camp is the overwhelming majority.
I rewrote the food section because, honestly, it was just a long list of food with interesting look/taste. If anyone disagrees, feel free to add in things I took out.
(Summarized these)
- Chitterlings (hog intestines)
- Tripe (cow's stomach lining)
- Menudo (tripe stew)
- Pork rinds (fried slices of pig skin a.k.a. pork scratchings)
- Pig's feet
- Black pudding (A sausage made from pig blood)
- Haggis (Sheep offal boiled in its own stomach)
- Foie gras (liver of a force-fed goose, this one is disliked for moral reasons in addition to the Squick value)
- Head cheese (The entire head of a cow, pig, or other stock animal, boiled to produce a meaty gelatin)
- Scrapple (Essentially the same thing, but mixed with cornmeal and formed into a loaf)
- Brawn. In normal contexts "brains and brawn" are two different things, in butchery brawn is brains.
(Summarized)
- Squid
- Octopus
- Sushi
- Oysters
- Sardines
- Anchovies
- this one would like to point out that Andrew Zimmerman, a food show host known for eating, well, weird foods could NOT eat Durian
- Grapefruit. Either one of the worst tasting "fruits", or something that people can eat. If you actually LIKE grapefruit, as in you enjoy eating it without sugar and actually like the taste, say "Aye".
(I've never really even met people who felt strongly for or against grapefruit...)
(Unobjectively speaking, this is almost universally praised by critics and has a huge cult following. If anything, people who hate it are in the vast minority)
(Everyone pretty much though Hitchikers was okay)
(
Rotten Tomatoes gives both of these movies very mediocre scores and moviegoers overwhelmingly agreed, both in opinion and in box office)
(Same here. In fact, most critics hated Speed Racer and didn't leave that much of a lasting impression nationwide)
(Really? I'd probably suggest some accompaning explanation to back this one up)
Gattsuru: Most American conservatives accuse the man of being responsible for the shooting executions of somewhere between 14,000 and 17,000 political prisoners, the creation of a Soviet-style secret police, gulags, and endless violations of human rights on basic levels such as freedom of speech or association — the man essentially outlawed criticism of his government. Many believe the entire place is in many ways a state-sized prison. The place is bad enough that between 4.5% and 20% of the population has fled. See
The Black Book of Communism for this viewpoint, which I personally support.
We could not kill this man and his regime fast enough, prohibition on political assassinations be damned.
On the other side, you have people like Michael Moore fawning over the health care system or ANSWER and similar groups advocating for Cuba. For that matter, Cuba's on the friggen Human Right's Council for the UN. I don't want to go into thread mode, so I won't discuss my issues with these viewpoints, but suffice it to say that there are people quite willing to advocate communistic or socialist alliances.
Elihu: Then communism and its related projects belong on the list. Not Fidel Castro. It's pretty safe to say that the number of people who like him are minuscule compared to the legions who despise him - not just "most American conservatives," but in fact, overwhelming most North and South American liberals and conservatives and hordes of world politicians. The comments about the various systems - including the health care - however, are very valid.
Charred Knight: Is it just me or are we starting to list series with a miniscule amount of
Fan Haters as examples? Take
World Of Warcraft as an example, I have never heard anything but good things about the gameplay issue, with the major complaints being that the lore sucks because they retcon the damn thing every patch. The thing World of Warcraft is best known for is that its the MMPORPG that all other MMPORG are compared too. Even Yahtzee liked it.
Gurren Lagann? I have heard about complaints about EVA, but not
Gurren Lagann.
- World Of Warcraft. Either its the best executed MMO to date or a dumbed down MMO for dummies with one mess of a story that is additionally a shameless ripoff of Warhammer.
Nirual: Seemed to me like there was quite a bit of hate towards it, especially from people that play other
MM Os. Perhaps its more a case of
Its Popular Now It Sucks though.
Dalantia: You'd be surprised how widespread WOW hate is, especially from other MMO players. Hell, a lot of
current WOW players hate WOW but won't go anywhere else because they don't have as large of a player pool. It deserves a mention.
Elihu: I think on the broader subject, we are listing any series that isn't universely beloved.
Charred Knight: Your right, an example is
Gurren Lagann which was insanely well received, and is considered the best
Super Robot anime since
Gao Gai Gar. I deleted
Lord of the Rings since its widely considered one of the great novels of Literature, FLCL since it was widely considered excellent, and
Gurren Lagann for the same reason. From my knowledge this is about series which are decisive, and are widely known for having large amount of people liking, and hating them. Not for one of the greatest novels in the 20th century.
Trogga: That doesn't explain why a big chunk of the
Lucky Star example was deleted.
Lale: Probably because shorter is always better; "never use two words where only one will do."
Trogga: But at least the longer version explained why some people like it and some don't.
Sketch: Charred Knight, I think Lord of the Rings and FLCL belong here. LOTR is subject to complaints such as it being cliche thanks to
Seinfeld Is Unfunny. And FLCL has always been pretty polarizing despite critical acclaim. A lot of people just don't "get" it.
I've got a pretty radical idea to end all the complaints and controversy that targets this page...how about if we just cut
all examples, and keep this as an example-less meta trope? It's an obvious phenomenon and this way we won't have people arguing over whether something counts an example or not.
Charred Knight: Of course Lord of the Rings has had some complaints, its one of the greatest pieces of Literature, not some mythological piece of work that trascends boundaries and all 6 billion people on the planet Earth love it. The difference is that Lord of the Rings is not known for being a series where either people love it or hate it. The hate base is based entirely on idiots who don't know that this was written more than 50 years ago. This should be only for series that are generally considered either great or awful. An example is
Wolf Rain, you either love the georgeous animation, Yoko Kanno soundtrack, and original plotline, or you hate the boring protaganists, and pretentious storyline that only gets going to the end, and has 4 episodes of flashbadck due to not being ready in time. I have heard a ton of people talk about how great it is, and I have heard people talk about what a pile of shit it is, to a lesser extant Eureka 7 has this going on. The only reference I have seen from FLCL is in Wikipedia, and that shows no examples, and directly contradicts it a few sentences earlier when it mentions that the response was positive, and then only lists examples from reviews calling it a masterpiece
Andrew: There's a whole shitload of stuff that doesn't belong here.
Lost? Critically accaliamed.
Seinfeld? Critically acclaimed.
Mythbusters? What the hell is THAT doing here? And no offense to
Supernatural fans but I don't think the show is known enough to have a large section of haters. And the
Suzumiya Haruhi entry doesn't even hide the fact that it's only one troper who feels that way.
Complaining About Shows You Dont Like is hitting this page something fierce. This is not a repository for shows that are popular but you don't like. If people can't figure this out, then I'm for removing all examples and just making it a meta trope like
Fan Dumb.
Nevrmore: Wow, I love how that first example under Anime makes everyone who doesn't enjoy it seem like retarded xenophobes who believe in outdated stereotypes.
Dalantia Pulled:
- It is somewhat justified the PC gamer reaction, since multiple port games seems to be facing "dumbification" in order to make the console port accessible. Bioshock, for instance, is called by some a "dumbified" System Shock.
Natter, taking a side, and I have
never heard Bioshock called a dumbed down System Shock, and I know lots of people who didn't think highly of it.
Danel: I'd argue that this is now a
Subjective Trope - maybe it was never intended to be, but it's become one and turning it back is basically impossible.
Tanto: Indeed. Virtually all the examples boil down to "Something other people like, but I don't", which is the very definition of subjective. I've added it, and if people don't like it, tough — they should have policed their page better.
Vampire Buddha: Cut a bunch of non-examples.
*
Psychonauts: A lot of people, including most critics, sing its praises but there are others who ignore the story, or feel that it isn't enough to overcome the flaws in its gameplay.
If most people like it, it's not an example.
*
Fire Emblem. The series' relatively small but obsessive fanbase love the series for its interesting plots, well-developed characters, the challenge and "sense of urgency" added by permanent character death, and the simple yet deep combat system. Others complain about there being too much text, not enough freedom on the player's part, the unforgiving nature of the game and the combat system being overly simplistic.
- The fact that the various entries, while featuring the same core gamplay, almost always have a brand new cast with completely different stats leads to much bickering over which entries were the most broken.
So the fanbase is small, eh?
DELETED!
** The 3D Sonic games in general. For example,
Sonic Adventure is either the onset of Sonic Syndrome, or a bold effort that should be applauded despite its flaws, depending on you point of view.
Sonic 2006, however...
Pretty much everybody hates those games.
That's
Broken Base. Most people who weren't already
Resi fans loved it.
*** Although this is largely an evolution of the Competitive versus Casual debate that has plauged Super Smash Bros. forums for many years.
Natter.
* Console
FPSs. While any console-based outing of a favorite genre from PCs generates
immense amounts of hatred and disgust from their traditional fanbase, the er,
debate over control issues and computer assistance that console FPSs stimulate leads among PC users and the relative novelty of the genre on consoles tends to put both sides of the fence on very hostile terms.
The divide isn't severe enough to qualify.
* Heroes of Might and Magic V has drawn this kind of opinion. While part of the fanbase welcomes the new tactical face of the battle system (specially the initiative system) and dynamical leveling system, the other part hates it for dishing the series background story and
making it cool.
That's
Broken Base
* Warcraft III Specifically, DotA. Depending on both where you go and who you talk to, DotA is either the single greatest map ever made and is single-handedly keeping Warcraft afloat, or it's a piece of crap that takes no skill, only memorization. Also notorious for spamming up the custom games list. Doesn't help that Basshunter made a kickass song about it...
- Although said song could also be counted as material for this page...
Broken Base
* Alcohol. Most people dislike the taste and drink it for the intoxication, but wine tasters and some drinkers of non-alcoholic beers actually like the taste of alcohol.
- Ed Byrne did a funny bit on people who like beer 'because of the taste' - "Yeah right, I like tea but I don't drink ten pints of the stuff".
The majority of people do like alcohol; those who don't are usually against it for religious or health reasons.
* Coffee. To some, it's either the worst tasting drink in the world that no one could ever drink, and to others, it's a little slice of heaven that should be drank black, with nothing in it. People in between tend to put varying amounts of milk, cream, and sugar in it.
Most people do like coffee
* Various greens. (Broccoli, brussel sprouts, spinach, etc.)
OK, nobody likes broccoli, and those who like brussel sprouts are a distinct minority.
**The
Star Trek Enterprise final episode "These Are the Voyages". Some think it's such a
heartwarming end to the series. Others, like this troper, think it's an absolute disgrace to the Star Trek name.
That's just your opinion.
*
Battlestar Galactica is considered by some to be the 'Best show on television' and the greatest thing since Star Trek. Other viewers don't get what the fuss is about, and think it's cheesy and overrated.
It's pretty popular; not many people seem to dislike it.
*
Top Gear. If you've ever read The Guardian you'll be familiar with George Monbiot and his ilk condemning Top Gear as the most irresponsible show on TV and the same paper's TV reviewer making it 'Pick of the Day' and saying how funny it is. Just to muddy the waters, last time, the TV reviewer gushing about Top Gear was a
girl.
Top Gear itself is very popular; only a
Vocal Minority dislike it
*This troper thought
Firefly was totally overrated. He knows people who think it's the greatest sci-fi series since Star Trek.
Lots and lots of people love
Firefly. Just becsause you don't like it doesn't mean it's an example.
*Anime itself.
Not true. Plenty of people, myself inluded, don't think of anime as anything other than cartoons from Japan.
Nope. Plenty of people are just indifferent.
** On a similar note, this troper has some friends who got turned off after seeing the first broadcast/DVD episode of
Haruhi Suzumiya, thinking the whole series would be horrible due to that ONE episode's
Bad Bad Acting, which the series is
not.
I don't think that many people hate
Haruhi enough for it to qualify.
*It shocks this troper that there are critics who thought
Fight Club was a bad movie. This troper thinks it's one of the top 20 movies of the '90s and knows a lot of people who feel the same.
A few dissenting opinions does not YMMV make.
Nobody liked those.
Cut because I have no idea what this sentence means.
*The description of the European short film "Jabberwoky" (not to be confused with the poem), declared that there are two kinds of people in the world, those that thought that the creator's works are absolute genius, and those who have never heard of him. After watching the film (which looked like it was made by a conceited film student), I began to doubt the back of video boxes.
You disliking something doesn't mean half the population does.
* Porn.
- Chris Rock's assessment is probably the most accurate; "Every man's got some... not an illegal amount, just enough to get you by!"
Plenty of people don't care one way or the other.
*
The Village is M. Night Shyamalan's BEST movie and this troper knows several people who know this to be true. However, it seems the pervading opinion is that it's crap, and that's just tragic.
- Opinions tend to be pretty divided about any Shyamalan movie after Sixth Sense.
If the prevailing opinion is that it's crap, then the audience reaction isn't evenly divided as per the definition.
- The Grand Finale is divisive for how Aang deals with Ozai: Aang refuses to kill Ozai and instead uses a technique he recently learned off screen to remove his bending. Most either think it's a Cop-out, or entirely appropriate.
- In addition, the issue of Azula: Was her Villainous Breakdown well deserved or heartbreaking? Does she deserve a life of suffering in the nuthouse or healing and redemption? For most, there's no in-between here. Okay, there are a few who think she deserved what happened to her but she might recover way down the road. This just tends to create three-way arguments.
This is
Broken Base.
*
Daria. And if this troper's class is any example, more people don't get it than do.
If the majority don'e like it, it's not an example.
*** For those that MUST know, by the end of the seventh book you have a new incarnation of Good (Christian god) who happens to be the daughter of the incarnation of Nature, who killed herself after her unknowing mother meddled with the genes of her child, resulting in a cosmic whoopsie after giving the child a supernatural wasting disease that is really a curse on the family of the ghost she was married to, and said ghost wasn't even the actual father of the child! The new 'God' is also the stepdaughter of Satan, the Incarnation of Evil, who tricked Nature into marrying him if she wanted to save the world by getting her to first love him, and then break her heart by telling her who he really was resulting in nature ending up starting the apocalypse. The incarnation of War is God's REAL father, who happens to be an Indian prince who follows the Hindu religion and is thus stuck in the western framework after accepting the position to save himself, oh and he stutters and needs to sing in order to avoid this, but he's a berserker so don't tease him or you'll DIE. Then there's Fate, a triple-incarnation utilizing Clotho, Lachesis, and Atropos. Lachesis is Nature's mother, and thus God's grandmother, and she used to be Clotho earlier in her life before going mortal again for a while. Chronos, the incarnation of Time, was actually the father of the new God's doomed baby, but since he now exists BACKWARDS after becoming Chronos, he'll never get to see what happens after his dead lover assumes the role as the incarnation of good. Finally there's Death, who is in love with Nature's cousin, who is Lachesis' granddaughter, who is a very important person in her own right by being the One Cosmic Balance Point on which rests the fate of the universe in getting the old incarnation of Good ousted due to a 'no confidence' clause in his lack of doing anything notably good and thus failing in his position. Then you have Satan who is inevitably opposed to the replacement of god simply because the fact that replacing the current god would mean a new one that would make Satan's job both easier and harder at the same time.... You know what, just read the books. It'll take longer but be less confusing.
I REALLY don't think we need all that in the page.
*
Harry Potter. Either it is an inspiring and compelling series that has redeemed reading in the eyes of the younger generations and captured hearts across the generation gaps, or it's utter rubbish, populist trash, and the only people who like it are either sheep-brained little kids or pathetic grown-ups who cling to kid's fantasy because they can't face the "real world." That, or it's witchcraft.
- Among fans, the third film adaptation onward with their Darker And Edgier direction and controversial editing choices.
- The seventh book itself, and the last
few chapters.
Actually, the HP books are pretty much loved.
*
Terry Pratchett: some think he is the funniest, smartest man alive. Others don't see why he's so successful.
Pratchett is too popular to qualify.
* While
Romeo And Juliet is not generally regarded as one of Shakespeare's great works by critics, many fans regard it as a touching and brilliant work. Many, many others regard it as the godawful play they saw butchered by their high school's drama department and retain horrible memories of it.
- There are some whose opinion of the play have nothing to do with high school and more to do with the annoying main characters.
- In fact, Shakespeare's work itself is considered either artful use of the English language or incoherent drivel
(to high school students).
I really wish people would stop putting Shakespearean examples under
Literature, but anyway,
R+J is certainly one of the Bard's most popular plays, and there aren't that many detractors. Most people who aren't fans of his are just indifferent rather than hate-filed.
I'm not sure if this fits, but I'm going to err on the side of caution.
*** Or they are entertaining but not supremely substantial fantasy novels. Atmittedly, this is a very small group, but this troper is one.
Natter.
*
Pop-Music (specifically sugar-pop, boy/girl bands, and bubble gum rap). Some see it as a watered down homogenized version of the genre it's "imitating", while others say its just as good as any pretentious "real" music, or at least they have a
right to enjoy it.
Pop doesn't really have enough passionate defenders to qualify.
*** Yes has to be right up there, too.
- "Most Talented" and "Pretentious and Boring" are not mutually exclusive terms, as will be attested to by some listeners of Steve Vai. Others, however, love him unconditionally.
Bye bye natter!
* Kate Bush. Either a prodigy with a true songwriting gift and an extraordinary, ethereal voice, or... "She was just having a laugh, wasn't she?" -
this troper's Dad.
- If she hadn't been so smokin' hot, then yes the voice might have been more of a problem...
I don't think the divide re Bush is severe enough to qualify, either.
* U2. And if you're a U2 fan, Pop.
In my experience, most people like U2.
*
Transformers: This attitude applies to
Beast Wars,
Robots in Disguise, the Unicron Trilogy, the 2007 movie, and
Transformers Animated.
Generation 1, by virtue of having come out first and being the standard by which all other series are judged, tends to be exempt from this.
- Not so! Either the cartoon wasn't deserving of a description more dignified than "toy commercial" while the comic book was an epic masterpiece, or the cartoon was the best thing ever to grace the airwaves while the comic book was pretentious drivel. And that's just the original fiction—when someone brings up the recent efforts by Dreamwave and IDW, get ready to duck.
Broken Base
* Two words: Miko Miyazaki. Note that
Order Of The Stick doesn't qualify for this trope itself, but Miko definitely does.
Broken Base
* Really, any politician.
Nope. Politicians are either boring or loved
or hated. Very few are loved and hated in equal measure at the same time. Also, the American political scene sucks.
* Britney Spears, especially recently (2007/2008).
Nobody likes Britney Spears.
* Margaret Thatcher, for similar reasons to Ronald Reagan.
- Depends on whether you were a coal miner or a merchant banker in the 'eighties. She's still divisive; Leftist comedian Mark Steel essentially said his reaction to a solemn BBC newsreader in front of a picture of Mrs. T was to shout "Dead!" and punch the air. Then the comedown: "Damn, only a stroke".
Or Maggie Thatcher.
- The fact that some of their users troll deviantArt doesn't help either.
- As an graphic artist, they have it coming...
Hardly anyone likes Encyclopedia Dramatica. Lurkerbunny, you're an exception.
* 4chan, depending on who you are, is either a good site to kill time and socialize with others on (/b/ excluded) or the "asshole of the internet".
Also, most people hate 4chan.
Characters *
Lost has had a total of twenty-five regular cast members so far, and given how diverse they are, every fans' preferences are varied. Hurley seems to be liked the most, whereas you'd be hard-pressed to find someone who likes
Nikki and Paulo.
*
Heroes characters are the same way. Except for Hiro. Everybody loves Hiro.
** Sadly, this troper does know of at least one person who hates Hiro, then again said person is a classic
Stop Having Fun Guys type.
* Leon Scott Kennedy from
Resident Evil 4: he's either a cool
Bad Ass, Or a clichéd cheesy one liner spitting
Big Damn Hero.
**But some people might like him specifically
because he's
So Bad Its Good at being badass.
*
Wolverine. Either he's the biggest, toughest
Badass on the team, or a
spotlight-stealing Marty Stu ** Gambit is another polarizing character from the team: He's either the
Charming Mischief maker the man perfect for Rogue or a callous
Casanova that's an insulting stereotype of Cajuns and
Rogue is better off with someone else. He also gets called a
Marty Stu.
* Sasuke Uchiha in
Naruto. He's one of, if not the most popular character in the series. But there are plenty of others who absolutely hate this guy. In short, there's
No Middle Ground with this character and you'll either be gay for this manga version of Jesus and want to have his babies or loathe him so much that your soul crushing hatred manifests itself as a
Negative Space Wedgie. He has both the largest number of fans and haters.
** Also, the Zombie Twins arc. You'll either love every sadistic moment of it and the new Akatsuki's (especially Hidan), or you'll think it's the worse arc in the series and want to punch the characters in the face.
*Dawn from
Buffy The Vampire Slayer. Even Buffy herself, after the first few seasons
*Sisko from
DS9 if you believe that.
*Venom from
Spider-Man. Some believe him to be one Spidey's greatest foes, while others believe him to be one of the worst.
** His stint as an anti-hero is even more polarizing.
* Shadow the Hedgehog of the
Sonic series is either considered to be the worst video game character ever made or the best thing to ever happen to
Sonic. He's pretty much the Sasuke Uchiha of video gaming.
* Shinji Ikari from
Neon Genesis Evangelion. Not to mention Asuka Langley Soryuu. Coincidentally, those who love one tend to hate the other.
* The
Supernatural fandom's feelings are... complicated, to put it mildly. You either hate John with a passion or wish he was your dad, you either find it easier to be in the 'Poor Dean'/'Bastard Sammy' or the 'Poor Sammy'/'Bastard Dean' mindset and it would be easier, unless you actually want to start a
flame war, to not mention the female guest stars at all.
** With regards to Sam and Dean, you either want them to stay as fucked up and as co-dependent as they are or you want them to grow the hell up and start acting like adults. There's no middle ground.
* There's going to be a character like this in every work of fiction, but you'll probably find much division regarding
Professor Snape, Draco Malfoy, or Horace Slughorn. Even Dumbledore.
* J.D. from
Scrubs with regards to his
Flanderization. You'll find Season 1 J.D. is pretty different from Season 2-onwards J.D. Some find his character to be
very much derailed while others found J.D. at his funniest.
* Spader from
Pendragon has no middle ground. Either you love him, or you hate him. Quite possibly you hate him because it seems like everyone else loves him.
* Gwen Cooper from
Torchwood. She's either an annoying woman with a shrill Welsh accent, or a lovely woman with a sexy Welsh accent.
*
Suzaku. Lelouch. You CAN'T take a third option. *
Death Note's Light is either a
Magnificent Bastard or a
Smug Snake.
* Every single
Doctor Who companion. Yes, even Adric and Mel.
* All the
Tales Of Symphonia characters.
This entire secion is
Broken Base
Real Life * Various sexual practices, especially those considered not in the norm.
- It's completely contrary to the usual flow of the internet to not expand on that at all. Though probably a good thing.
- These communities tend to also harbor bad feelings toward each other. I, for one, find feet disgusting, but could reel off a partial list of my own fetishes that would send some running from me screaming. Thanks to the furry backlash, nobody's even safe liking standard anime catgirls anymore...
Once again, lots and lots of people are indifferent towards sexual fetishes and religions.
Andrew: Following your example:
* Believe it or not, chocolate. Sure, nearly everyone likes chocolate on a conceptual level. But given how many types of chocolate there are, you'll seldom find a piece of chocolate that will please everyone. Some people will eat any chocolate, some will find dark chocolate too bitter, some think that milk chocolate takes away some of the natural chocolate flavor, and that's not even getting into the camp that believes white chocolate isn't actually chocolate but instead congealed suntan lotion. That said, there are those who find chocolate genuinely disgusting in all forms.
Everybody loves chocolate.
*
Doctor Who, episode "Love & Monsters". When
Doctor Who Magazine did a poll of the best and worst episodes of the year, this episode came exactly in the middle. However, this was because everybody who voted for it gave it either the best or the worst rating, and the two factions were exactly the same size.
If it's just an episode of an otherwise well-liked series, it's
Broken Base.
But is the show itself a case of
Your Mileage May Vary? Requires further explanation before it can be put back.
* The Saw movies.
Mostly loved.
* The animated
Teen Titans. When it premiered in 2003, fans of the original comic despised how it was playing toward anime fans rather than being a straight
Animated Adaptation of the comic book. Well, Teen Titans managed to become quite successful, but there are still purists who cry foul at its existence.
If it was well-received, then it ain't an example. The only people that hate it are just a
Vocal Minortiy who like to
Accentuate The Negative.
* Kobe Bryant.
Mostly loved, especially in Asian countries, for some reason.
Broken Base especially since the film itself is critically acclaimed.
When we talk about
Your Mileage May Vary are we talking with respect to people as a whole or to, let's not mince words here, nerds?
Most Tropers Are Young Nerds and since nerds generally hate the mainstream, they're obviously gonna dislike things that are in actuality mostly loved (such as Britney Spears or
High School Musical). YMMV is not a place to unload "nerd rage". It's about things where the reception really is split down the middle. And if most people can't figure that out, then I'm for cutting all examples and leaving this example-less, as was suggested earlier.
Vampire Buddha: It's supposed to be about people in general. I think most of us are mature enough to realize that although something may not be popular with
deranged nerds, if it is generally liked in the mainstream, it doesn't belong here. That's why
High School Musical isn't up there - most of our regular contributors despise it, but it's very popular among its target audience and non-geeks.
However, this
can apply to things popular with nerds. Very few non-nerds have even heard of
Lucky Star, and those that have haven't seen it. Among
otaku who have seen it, it's intensely polarising, and has been called 'the Marmite of anime'.
Naruto, on the other hand, has been seen by lots of people who aren't anime fans. Some love it, some hate it, and some are indifferent. It's that middle ground among people who have seen it that makes the difference.
Komodin: Hmm, I think the 3D Sonic Games example fits this trope. From what I can tell, people either hate the 3D Sonic games or like them. Saying "Pretty much everyone hates them" is not only
completely untrue, it's also unnecessary
Complaining About Games You Don't Like.
Tanto: ...Which is why this
is an inherently subjective trope, despite Buddha's constant claims to the contrary. Everything has
someone who likes it or someone who doesn't, and (lacking hard data as we do, the ability to draw solid lines) it's extraordinarily difficult to back up a claim that there's a split along these lines. No matter what you say, people are going to keep putting in "stuff other people like, but I don't". It's one of those
License To Whine tropes where people see an opportunity to soapbox about how they're smart and everyone else is dumb, and they will.
Charred Knight: Than be a better gardener, just don't give up when things look dark, and its not that subjective. Any series that is critically acclaimed is not an example.
Dalantia: A LOT of those cuts sound like one person making a judgment call saying "Because -I- haven't heard of it, it must not be true"...
fleb: Maybe we need to change the page name to
Love It Or Hate It. YMMV encompasses a whole spectrum of "meh."
Close Original Discussion
: Absolutely. It's like some new kind of punctuation that doesn't change the meaning of the sentence but takes up space anyway.
