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Programme Note:Hats off, for a moment. The premise of this section of the wiki is that the theories being offered are being taken seriously, at least by one nutcase. If you are tempted to make an entry refuting a theory, the discussion pages are there for that purpose. The article itself should be used for tongue-in-cheek "proofs" and "evidence" supporting the theory, or for yet wilder theories.Some folks have been missing the joke, so we've put up this programme note to make it clear. You may now put your tinfoil hat back on.Seth: Keeping a tally for... research purposes. Last Updated 1st July 07 Header: Description: Tally
Daviot: A friend and I had a conversation concerning Haruhi Suzumiya. And thus I found it necessary to plant a redwood-sized epileptic tree. Fencedude: This is an AWESOME idea for a page. Fast Eddie: Pulled ...
Seth: Added my own spin to the Haibane bit - i have thought about, debated and studied that series far too much in the last few years and those are the conclusions i came to. The Defenestrator: I thought the Haibane Renmei section was pretty much widely accepted, with the exception of the Haibane working to pay for their sin- the theories I've read say that the Haibane's rules are to keep the humans from resenting them. see http://denbeste.nu/Chizumatic/tmw/HaibaneRenmei.shtml#0015 
Burai: Yeah, I know, we're openly encouraging Epileptic Trees here, but still I have to question this:
xwingace: I've moved the Doctor Who example to its alphabetical position, and added a speculation there of my own. Spoiler tagged because it contains information from the current season. Morgan Wick: Should we add something to Laws And Formulas that "as the size of the fanbase and the fanon grows, and as more Epileptic Trees theories are proposed, the likelihood of a theory involving "souls of the dead" and/or purgatory approaches one." After reading the second TV Tropes one. SAMAS: You could, but really I only put that one up because of all the other "Souls in Purgatory" guesses. I originally wanted to say that there was an unhealthy obsession with purgatory, then that one hit me. Looney Toons: I am so tempted to put up one for Gilligans Island along the lines of "The castaways are dead and in Purgatory, because all the other kids are doing it this season..." (More seriously, I vaguely remember a wild theory about Gilligans Island along the lines of "they the victims of an experiment being run by the professor", but I don't remember the details — has anyone else heard this one?) Umptyscope: I remember years ago, someone saying each character in Gilligans Island represented one of the Seven Deadly Sins — Ginger was lust, Mr. Howell was greed, etc. Someone else worked it out so that one of them actually represented two sins (maybe Skipper was Wrath and Sloth) so that Gilligan didn't represent any... proving that the island was Hell, and, in making sure he screwed up enough so they could never escape, Gilligan was Satan! (Hey, red shirt...) ((Jack_Cain)): No "orochimaru as biju container" entry under Naruto? This must be rectified. SAMAS: Considering that the Akatsuki, whom Orochimaru was a member of, were in the business of fatally removing biju from their containers and storing them in a statue, I'm going to have to say no. Outsyder0486: Actually...it's been stated that the Akatsuki have to pull biju out in order of tails, from Gaara (one) to Naruto (nine). I think they're up to four by this point in the manga - maybe three, I can't recall at this point in time. And making a deal with a powerful demon really seems like the kind of thing Orochimaru would do - and if I were Akatsuki, I would wait until I had to deal with a raving psychopath who's one of the three strongest ninja in the world. If anyone else agrees with this, I'll put it up there. What I'm really surprised about, however, is that there are no theories on Kabuto. What does he want? Why does he help the good guys then immediately try to kill him? Yeesh. ((Jack_Cain)) It's a fair theory. I mean, why else have a charatcer who's name is connected to a famous, mythological eight-tailed snake? It can't just be random coincidence. Not to mention his snake theme, and the fact that he was obviously inhuman from a very young age. Lale: Should the Dungeons and Dragons series "The kids are dead and in Hell" theory go here? The Word Of God may have expressly corrected this, but it looks like it was pretty widespread before that. Duckluck Put up my own bogus theory on what this Wiki's all about. I hope Seth and Ununnilium don't mind... Seth: You do realise I need to flashy thing you now? Duckluck: Being X obviously isn't very good at being an undercover agent seeing as she/he/it wrote that part her/him/itsself. Ununnilium: Hahaha, win. maybe the undercover agent thing was a Sarcastic Confession Harpie Siren: But if you were telling the truth, you wouldn't have told us! yes i would, because you're either a muggle or an alien who is utterly oblivious to the fact that i am actually a man in black and could kill you right now with my cybertron-zap-o-cyberspace-shooty-gun-thing-ray-beam-on-sandwich-with-a-side-of-death gun crapface: I put this in: Ununnilium is acully crapface from the Future this is backup by a lot of stuff that go's on in there lives like thay look the same when thay where chilren how Ununnilium coudint type or spell vary well when he was yong. What do you think about it? Seth: Suzumiya Haruhi is god needs a mention, even some of the characters believe it. Ununnilium: Except that it's totally canon within the show. It not being true is a theory that fits on this page, in fact. Fencedude: The relevent theory here is that KYON is god, and subconsciously manifested Haruhi to provide the outlet for his imagination...and honestly, I'd be shocked if this wasn't the big reveal when the novels finally end. Seth: Okay whats with people removing the dividers between the main body and the examples in these pages. Here and in Title Bin two different users - has there been a change in layout policy that i haven't been told about? Also i prefer the look of — to the straight line, for a start the straight line that it is being replaced with is too long and makes the sentences hard to follow. Sikon: That's my fault, I copied the entire thing into a text editor and replaced every occurrence of — with — while forgetting that the horizontal line is made up of ——. Seth: I reverted them, every other page on the wiki uses —. No need for this one to use the mdash. whitetigah: regarding the first Pokemon theory, that's what really happened in Monster Rancher, another Mons series: humans created the Mons to use as laborers and soldiers; the biggest and meanest of these soldiers gained self-awareness, rebelled and all but destroyed civilization before it was defeated; the humans then rebuilt with the help of the Mons. Perhaps this is worth mentioning? Thunder Phoenix: I'm kind of surprised that noone's put forth any crazy Neon Genesis Evangelion theories yet. That seems to be the kind of series that encourages this kind of lunacy. Lale: Because, relatively, no Evangelion theory is crazy but very likely. Sikon: Ha-ha, five points for your Evangelion entries, Lale! However, since they're all actual spoilers, I added spoiler tags to all of them. Lale: I'm waiting for someone to write a good, convincing "Giovanni is Ash's father" theory. It fascinates me, but I'm not in-the-know enough about Pokemon at this point to try. Furiko Maru: IIRC, a site called Pokemopolis proposed a theory that Professor Oak is actually Ash's father via a secret tryst with his Hot Shounen Mom; that's why he's always there when Ash calls home, why they were on vacation together in that episode that was banned for Gag Boobs-content, and why he bets against his own grandson in favour of Ash in the first season (it also explains Gary's resentment towards his 'younger uncle'). Granted, I've seen maybe three episodes of Pokemon in my entire life, but it seemed to make a certain amount of sense, besides being extremely amusing. Grev: Yeah, it's off the wall, but this definitely needed at least one Firefly theory... Colin: Anyone else think that the "Paul is Dead" theory needs to be in here, and if so under what? Mister Six: Took the sarcastic comment ("oh wait, that's what everyone thinks" etc.) off the end of the second Purgatorio because it completely misses the joke. Morgan Wick: But the joke's not all that funny IMO. Maybe this is my AS speaking but it seems to me that it just leaves one going "What An Idiot". Also, because it's blatantly obvious, it technically doesn't belong on the page (but I guess we do have the joke Evangelion ones, but those are actually funny) - it's just trying to riff on the "dead and in purgatory" theme some more, which, as the count on the page indicates, really isn't as prevalent as some other themes; before long we'll have more parodies of it than actual examples. Besides, if we're going to have any part of the Divine Comedy it should be the most famous one, Inferno. A big number of people haven't even heard of Purgatorio or Paradiso. HeartBurn Kid: I vote we keep it. After all, if we don't have in-jokes here, what do we have? Devils Advocate: I think it's a quite clever twist on all the other "dead and in purgatory" theories, and I say we keep it. "Most people haven't heard of it" isn't a good argument, since everything is notable. If you wanted to use that argument, I'd point out that there's a big number of people who have never heard of Evangelion, either, but you don't see me (or any other contributors who are not anime fans) clamoring for the removal of anime-related theories, even the ones that are actually mainstream interpretations and just happen to be remarkably similar to theories which would be in Epileptic Trees territory if applied to most other series. Mister Six: Tch, honestly. "The characters are in purgatory" is certainly a theory that gets trotted out 90% of the time (cf fandoms for The Prisoner, Lost, Mulholland Drive etc), even if it's not in the majority on this page. To apply that to a story that actually is about people in purgatory is a pretty clever idea. The fact that you didn't get the joke the first time around (and therefore decided to append a needlessly snarky and unpleasant remark onto the end) or that you don't find it funny is irrelevant. This is the TV Tropes Wiki, not the Morgan Wiki. Kizor: I say we keep it, since it's clearly a blast for many people, and go do something more fun than arguing. Whogus The Whatsler: Just a query...is it okay to put songs in here? I know, music is one area we don't tend to cover on this site, and I am sometimes wary that we'll eventually be the "Everything In the History of the World Tropes Wiki", but for whatever reason I find this kind of alternative theorising happens to me more with songs than anything else. Umptyscope: You mean, stuff like the meaning to certain song lyrics? Like American Pie or Hotel California? (Seems to me such discussions are done on the rest of the internet, and lots of speculation flies around until the writer does an interview on VH-1 and tells you it was all about his mother.) Whogus The Whatsler: No, I mean more songs that seem to be telling one story but have another possible interpretation. Like Bob Marley's I Shot the Sheriff. Seems straightforward enough, but one is left with some unanswered questions: Who did shoot the deputy? Why does everyone think the singer did it? And why are they after him "for the killing of a deputy", rather than the killing of both the sheriff and his deputy? Don't they know he killed the sheriff? My theory is he never killed the sheriff; it's just that years of the sheriff's menacing taunts has left the singer paranoid and disturbed, and on the day he was set to leave the town he was so sure that the sheriff wouldn't let him go that, the moment he glimpsed a police uniform — just the deputy, not out to get him at all — he shot and ran, convinced he'd killed the sheriff in self-defence. That sort of thing. I have others. Anyway, my point is, does that kind of thing have a place here, or should we keep it music-free? Lale: Might clutter the page since the possibilities are endless. Start a new trope for that. Ununnilium: I say go for it. If it tells a story, it fits on the page. Lale: But wouldn't it make more sense to have another page for alternate theories of the "true" meaning of song lyrics? Citizen: Does that first Chrono Trigger example (evolution) fit here? Because... Lavos was responsible for evolution... Ninjacrat: I though the same thing. That one pretty much explicit in the plot. Man Called True: Perhaps, but I've had to fight about it with people before, which is why I put it in here. Seth: I don't think this page needs more than two quotes, if the quotes are too long it detracts from the entry - placing in the Quote Bin Citizen: You never let me have any fun, Seth. =P Seth: Now be fair, i never let anyone have any fun when aesthetics are at stake. Ci Ti Zen: Fair enough. Looney Toons: Osh, I'm not entirely clear on the purpose of some of your recent changes to the Love Hina entry. Why the qualifier of "in the original story" in the theory declaration? It certainly applies to both manga and anime. And you altered
Looney Toons: Um. The recent addition of some goofball "theories" that exist simply to be over-the-top bizarro is perhaps a trend we ought to kill right now. I mean, I enjoyed throwing in the Vamp Benders entry just as a wiki in-joke, but the new material on Firefly, Lost and Transformers is just stupid for stupid's sake. I mean, this page was supposed to be for genuine speculation that just happened to be odd — not every bit of braindrool that strikes someone as borderline amusing. HeartBurn Kid: In fairness, I don't think any theory's too whacked-out for Lost; at this point, they could reveal that everybody really has been on the set of a TV show all this time, and I wouldn't be surprised. xwingace: The one on the set of a TV show is not mainly the one meant here, I think. But the moment Lost crosses over with Torchwood will be the day of the Apocalypse, I think. Oh wait, we already had that. On Torchwood at least... Mister Six: Can this be the same Looney Tunes who objected to me asking for the Evangelion profiles to be deleted? Apparently so. Wild Mass Guessing is in the Just For Fun section. As far as I'm concerned, that means it doesn't have to be a hivemind of industrious critical thinking and convincing alternative theories. As the write-up makes entirely clear, this is for crazy pet theories: genuine speculation that just happens to be odd can go on Epileptic Trees. To suddenly declare that allowing people to have fun with their theories is a practice that should be "killed" is just needlessly miserable. Lale: Note the Wild Mass in the title; something you think up on the spot solely to put it on the page is not wild mass guessing. Looney Toons:
Looney Toons: Deleted this alleged entry from Crapface:
Fast Eddie: The ad-hominem thing deserves to go. The ATTAFOVS refs are funny. I've encountered the "immortal Inara" Firefly thing elsewhere. There is a pretty good chance that the more ridiculous the theory is, the better chance there is that it is actually out "in the wild". If we end up originating one ... well, that's cool, too. If it is about a show (including our faux-show), my vote is that it stays in. // afterthought: I'll try to track down where I saw that Inara thing. IF you have external link to a place where an epileptic tree is under discussion, throw it on the entry. Not that we need footnotes, but they might be fun. // later Bingo! Found it here .
osh: By golly thems a lot of words! Since this is my horrible spawn I'll clarify the intent in the entry.
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Scrounge: Why is the Chiyo Pigtail Fetish theory not valid? I added it back in, and it got deleted again, and I want to know what the deal is. A MINUTE OR SO LATER: Never mind, the second time was the result of a nuked edit. Gonna go ahead and de-nuke it now
Ununnilium: What the heck is the theory? "Chiyo-Chan's pigtails are subject to a sort of displaced Gainaxing" is not a theory; it either happens or it doesn't.
Also, in the very end, a fox appears that looks just like Makoto's fox form. (Great, now I'm going to start believing this.)
Citizen: I want to believe... ;_;
Morgan Wick: I had the feeling this page was a parody of Epileptic Trees theories, where people could make up the most ridiculous theories they could think of. I never had the impression they had to be real theories; otherwise it's a needless fork of Epileptic Trees in lieu of an examples field. Me thinks Looney just needs to take a Wikibreak if he's becoming too curmudgeonly as a result of the wiki. I think his real beef is he's encountering too many theories that just aren't funny. Oh, and I'm not backing down on the Purgatorio one. It's just told with too much of a straight face. (Not that it should be de-straight faced.) 90% of people vouching for it are only doing so because everyone else is. I know because my first reaction was that it didn't sit well with me, and first reactions are never wrong, and completely outweighs all the opinions of the masses or even the need to have reasons because it is the arbiter of truth and nothing else matters because I say so. Nyah. </sarcasm> (That said, I do like the parenthetical "wait a minute" that's been added. Consider it backed down from.) Here's how osh originally created the page: After noticing the Fan tropes section's nebulous beginning, I thought we could sway some potential flack with this fun exercise. This is the place for our grizzled and seasoned veterans to expound their knowledge on the unmentioned. What's your crazy or not-so-crazy pet theory on a story you enjoyed? Have fun filling the logic holes and rationalizing the weird. And remember, it's not a lie unless they have proof! Which is way open to interpretation. Ruling? </Morgan Wick> Egak: Feel free to add more proof to any of the theories I just added. In fact, please do. Mister Six: I agree with Morgan Wick on the Epileptic Trees front. Move all "serious" examples there and leave this place for fun, silly writing. Fast Eddie: Yes, it is not clear that this is meant for zany, made up stuff. That should be cleared up in the article intro, with directions to put the real "'trees" in Epileptic Trees. Ununnilium: Well, I don't think "it could be real" is a very good reason to put things in Epileptic Trees. I'm personally fine with everything currently on the page staying where it is. HeartBurn Kid: Axed "hey, you think maybe this whole purgatory thing has gone too far?" from the Purgatorio entry; IMHO, the lampshade on it works best when kept short. Brevity being the soul of wit, and all that. Ununnilium: Taking out:
DomaDoma: With the end of the Harry Potter series so soon in coming, should we delete the related theories when the day comes? (I mean, two of those could actually happen.) And should we do the same for other series finales? Being X: yes Fast Eddie: A goodly number of these trees are about series that have already ended. Not at all sure that a little thing like the end of canonical production will do anything to slow down fanon. Pretty good evidence that it won't. Dark Sasami: I think the concern is that one of the theories will turn out to be true, in which case there will be massive "OMG YOU SPOILED HARRY POTTER YOU BASTARDS" complaints. Sikon: If this happens, Shoo Out The Clowns. DomaDoma: Not sure what Sikon means by that, but anyway, I have deleted them. Ununnilium: And I restored them, with a note. Andyroid: 71.175.13.141, please, please stop whatever you think you're doing before I have an aneurysm. That's three times you've deleted more than half the entry, and if this keeps happening I'm going to cry "vandalism!" Ununnilium: We've had this problem before, IIRC — something having to do with what happens if there's a glitch halfway through the page updating, or somesuch. Looney Toons: Yeah, but he's done it three or four times in rapid succession. Even if he's got good intentions, he needs to stop it. Morgan Wick: He may have an old browser or version of Google Toolbar .
Sikon: It has happened to me before when I was editing. It just happens, may be a bug in the wiki software.
Ununnilium: Sansa Stark? Who's that? Also, I don't see what separates the Lord Of The Rings theory from a generic... hm. Do we have a name for that plot? Where the Tomato Surprise is that all the magic is really technology? I could have sworn we did. Anyway, my point is that there's nothing especially Star Wars-ish about it. It could be any kind of Magic From Technology. Morgan Wick: I don't think we do. DomaDoma: Sansa Stark is a character in A Song Of Ice And Fire. At eleven years old, she's pretty vapid and annoying. Fast Eddie: This is getting unweildy. How about making a group for these, with each show having its own entry? Ununnilium: Hrm. That feels like it'd be unweildy in its own way, though, and not as easy to add to. Fast Eddie: Better ideas? Is the Lo T Rs one crap then? I wrote it, so I don't mind getting rid of it. Don't really see how it being a generic magic-from-technology is THAT bad, though, considering how many of the other examples are also common tropes. And it mostly uses aspects of Star Wars that aren't replicated elsewhere. Ununnilium: Mmmmm... Well, to me, it doesn't really seem to fit. The Ainur, for example, are ridiculously powerful, much more than any Force-user; pretty much nothing about the Silmarillion fits, unless you say "ah, well, it's all a really, really messed-up version of real events". For that matter, none of the magic seems especially Force-y, or Star Wars-technology-ish. Yeah, guess you're right. Okay, I've nuked it. Someone just nuked most of the page. Is there an easy way to restore it? DomaDoma: Just copy and paste it under the "show changes to markup" option. Fast Eddie; In the absence of better ideas, I'm breaking up into an index for a group of its own. Citizen: Hahaha, I just did a double take when I went to browse the All Recent Pages list. ^^ Devil Master: I want to add some wild theories on Captain S. This is a web show with a live-action first season, a webcomic as "season 1.5" currently in progress, and a live-action season 2 expected in 2009. What category does it fit? Sabre Justice: I can't believe there isn't a page for Godzilla yet. My personal theory is that Gozilla is Leviathan. I suck with wikis, so how would this be added? Maniakkid25: in a similar vein, can someone add a "other" subheading for every WMG section? You know, for the WM Gs that don't nessecarily have their own subheading. Krine say: I'd like to put forth the notion that no, not every page needs "X is a Time Lord" in it somewhere. Seriously. And I don't think that saying "X is his Tardis" is enough proof for that anyways. Eclipt: In fact, could I suggest that crossover speculation and in-universe speculation actually be separated? I think "X is a Time Lord" and so forth would be better served by one central page with multiple examples - especially if it's going to be applied to absolutely everything. Fast Eddie: Yeah, the "X is a Time Lord" thing has gone past the Rule Of Three. They should be pared back to three in the whole list. BTW, these aren't serious theories. Master Hand: What happened to the little Joss Whedon faces that popped up next to jossed WMGs? I liked those! Morgan Wick: What's up with the new WMG icons in the row of cross-namespace links? JET 73 L: Why does WMG/WildMassGuessing redirect to Main/WildMassGuessing? Is there a valid reason for this? If not, is there some way to undo the redirect? Pro-Mole: For the same reason JustBugsMe/JustBugsMe redirects to Main/ItJustBugsMe, so you can just type http://tvtropes.org/pwiki/pmwiki.php/WildMassGuessing without being redirected to the main page or an empty page. ...then again, none of those are redirects either, so.. I have no idea. At all. JET73L: Huh, JustBugsMe/JustBugsMe was, until recently, a meta Just Bugs Me page rather than a redirect to Main/JustBugsMe, but now it's just a redirect. |
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