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Narrative
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Aiguille: mirroring some tropes that appear on the character page. (We have one? We aren't even close to the number of wicks we'd need to qualify for Trope Overdosed, but c'est la guerre) At the very least, its "here thar be spoilers" caveat demands it. Also, the deletions seem odd. Series pages are basically trope clearinghouses. Also, if someone removed them in an effort at cleanup, remember the credo.
Aiguille: Deleted Wall Banger entry for The Spectacular Spider Man because it arises from a fundamental misunderstanding of the episode's plot. The internship was not based on Connor's secret formula development, which he hid from his labmates and developed in secret. And the internship is not dissolved, as characters Gwen and Eddie are shown working in Connor's University lab three episodes later. If this was out of line, please say so. Cassius335: You misunderstand me. The details of the internship don't matter. Gwen and Eddie don't matter. My point is that the writers clearly only gave Peter the internship so he'd be around for Conner becoming The Lizard. Once the Lizard showed up, no more need for Peter to have the internship, so they got him fired. And you know... two episodes. Two. EDIT: I wish I'd seen this sooner, because now I can't find my original text. Aiguille: From what I can remember of the diction, I'd (mistakenly) thought that the bulk of wallbangy frustration arose from the idea that Connors was exploiting the internship members to develop the formula, because of the usage of a link to You Have Outlived Your Usefulness. It was rude and presumptive of me. My apologies. Cassius335: Apology accepted. The You Have Outlived Your Usefulness link was in reference to Peter's internship, not the whole program. Bad choice of link, maybe. Greenygal: To be honest, I still don't see the Wall Banger. So they only gave Peter the internship so he'd be around the Lizard...and? Maybe if we'd never heard about it again, but instead we got a logical, in-character reason why he was promptly fired. Shouldn't there be something about a Wall Banger that just doesn't make sense? R Taco: Me either. A complaint, maybe, but hardly worth banging any walls over. Aiguille: perhaps it's an issue of belief? Or maybe meta-awareness. Haven: For me this isn't a Wall Banger as much as one of the most interesting plot points in the series. It's always a little weird to me that no one ever makes note of Peter taking pictures of Spider-Man all the time, and this was a really Dramatic Irony-licious way to take it. I think it would have been pretty unnatural if he hadn't been fired after running off to take pictures of the Lizard instead of sticking around to help. The direction this subplot takes in "Group Therapy", on the other hand, is a bit of a Wall Banger IMO. It's natural that Eddie's pissed, because he thinks Pete's betrayed him, but his dialogue is absurdly Anvilicious. However, if Eddie somehowdoesn't become Venom, then these scenes will become retroactively hilarious. That is my analysis. Eponymous Kid: Deleted G Rated Drug. Because Globulin Green isn't a Does This Remind You Of Anything version of drugs, it is a drug, and Harry's addiction is handled pretty realistically.
R Taco: Hey guys, perhaps we ought to concentrate more on putting examples of this show on the other pages. This one's getting really long.
Aiguille: Okay, not really seeing Does This Remind You Of Anything, since it's not an innocent item given salacious drug-related subtext. Globulin Green is a drug. Polling here because I jumped the gun on the Wallbanger deletion. Thoughts? Haven: I'm the one who added "Does This Remind You Of Anything". It's not an innocent item, but it's a fictional substance which is used in a way reminiscent of other drug uses - ie, even though it's a Psycho Serum, it's frequently used in a way that reminds you of ritalin (he can't get good grades without taking it), steroids (he uses it to enhance his football playing prowess) and heroin (his little sighs of relief). It's like the X-Men examples on that page: there's actual prejudice occurring towards mutants, but mutants are a fictional group, and the prejudice is used to discuss real-life prejudice. Even though the Psycho Serum is actually a drug within the context of the series, it's used to evoke real-world drugs and their effects.
Haven: I'm not sure I did the Dramatic Irony example very well, as it's really obvious the way it's played in the episode - the irony comes from the fact that Jameson, in insisting on calling Peter personally, being really nice, but Peter won't take the call because Jameson's usually such a jerk. Also, Eddie's anger at Peter is probably an example too, but the way it's used in "Group Therapy" is such a Wall Banger that I can't really call it that right now =/ (also, apparently Witty Banter does not mean what I thought it meant.) R Taco: Should Never Say Die still be on here? Venom used the word in the first season finale. DoKnowButchie: I think it should, maybe with the modifier "occasionally averted", or, given more examples, "inconsistently applied". Given how many times the word "destroyed" is used and how we never hear the word "kill", it seems clear to me that use of the word is restricted, if not quite prohibited. Bob: Question. If the name of the show has a hyphen in it, why not move it to The Spectacular Spider-Man and make this page a redirect? You can include hyphens in article names, it just means that you have to link it with brackets instead of a Wiki Word. Joysweeper: Just wanted to say that this article was what finally pushed me over into watching this. I like this show! Caveats attached, naturally, but it's still cool. Gwen Stacy Wannabe: Can we put something on here that concerns the fandom if it's pretty much guaranteed to happen, but hasn't actually happened yet? I can smell Die For Our Ship directed at Liz Allen coming any minute now... DoKnowButchie: Spoilers, people, spoilers! Just because we may have watched the series via less-than-legal means (or alternatively, all editors are Canucks or British) doesn't mean that we can expect visitors to have done the same. Can we please properly label season 2 tropes as spoilers until the appropriate episode airs here? Thank you. Haven: TREACHERRRRRYYYYYYYYY Deadpool Fan: Anyone want to put that in Large Ham catergory? Deadpool Fan: A note to all, the entry that mentions Candle you-know-who, is to have its sentence remain incomplete as to do so is to ruin the joke. Please remember that. Deadpool Fan: WHOA! I just noticed a LOT of examples in the article have been deleted. I think its part of the fact theres only one line of them. Well most of them. But quite a few of them ARE relevant. There is no reason given for the deletions. Can someone explain if this is another clean up job? Gwen Stacy Wannabe: Most of them were just moved over to the Characters page. I tried not to delete the ones on the main page that had a description more than one line long, though. Aiguille: Gwen, you kinda did the opposite of what's stylistically preferred Example Explanation Density for series pages. Short=Good Long=Bad. Trim long ones to "Short explanation of how each trope is used or just the name of the character the trope applies to, unless for whatever reason the explanation is Exactly What It Says On The Tin" which should be "enough to jog the memory of someone who is familiar with the show" Move mutant examples to their respective trope pages. Also, I don't think the character sheet was meant to exclude character-related tropes from series pages, merely highlight them for easy perusal. So, no malice meant, but I favor restoring them. Not that the overlong examples shouldn't be pared to three lines max. Storm: Okay, this is really bugging me because I see it pop up throughout the wiki. Is Tombstone really a Badass Normal here? In the comics he was a human with gained superstrength, and considering his level of strength and ability here, I would assume the same is true here, although possibly through different means. He's able to go toe to toe with Spider-Man, even if the first time he caught him by surprise, and can hold his own against Doc Ock and an armored Silvermane. He even gets Goblin boomerangs in his back and shrugs them off. Sure, he could be Made Of Iron, but he seems to be around Spider-Man's level of strength, if not stronger. Haven: Yeah, there's no way he's a Badass Normal—it would be quite a Wall Banger if he was, since it'd mean that Spider-Man's super-powers really aren't. He's definitely a Badass though. Haven: It looks like there might not be a third season, and that is incredibly sad because this is a really, really strong series and it'll probably only get better. Fan - The article couldn't decide if the Trope Example Breakers would be a ":", "()" or a " ", so I made all of them into a " - " (because it was a freakin' mess). However, due to the sheer mass I purged all the parentheses, so there will most likely be an example that needs these (nice things) back. OgreProdigy: I disagree with the description of Norman Osborn as a Complete Monster. In order to qualify for that trope, someone has to be not just unsympathetic, but the sort of person that you want killed off. 'A complete monster is created to be despised'. 'If you don't find yourself filled with a combination of joy and relief when the villain finally gets what's coming to him, he's not a Complete Monster. If the villain gets away with it and you don't find yourself angry at the horrible injustice of it all, he's not a Complete Monster. A Complete Monster is not a villain you love to hate; a Complete Monster is a villain you hate to even think about.' All quotes from the page. Thing is - At least for this Troper - Osborn isn't someone I hate to even think about. I think he's a great villain and I want to see a lot more of him. I'd definitely argue that he's a very bad man, but he hasn't quite crossed the Moral Event Horison for me, though toeing it he may be. I'll admit that what he's done to his son is nasty, but he's someone for whom redemption, if truly earned, wouldn't feel like an absurd cop-out - Which is the point of a Complete Monster. Thoughts? Opinions? Am I just insensivitized to monsterhood? Storm: I can't take the idea of Norman pulling a Heel Face Turn very seriously, but anyway, as far as being a Complete Monster goes, I think what you have to remember is the context. In, say, an R movie, a Big Bad breaking his son's leg and framing him? Horrific, but doesn't make him quite a Complete Monster. In a kid's show? I'm surprised they got away with what they did. Granted, he's definitely magnificent, but I think the two can have a fair amount of overlap. Haven: I'd have to agree it's not really Complete Monster-hood. In my mind, a Complete Monster is someone for whom everything he does would be over the line for another character. The only real crossing of that line he's had was breaking his son's leg, which is reprehensible, but a single act does not a complete monster make. Ouroboros: He didn't just break his son's leg, he wilfully framed his son, and showed no remorse over having done so. He was also fully cognitive and composed during his stints as the Green Goblin, attempting to murder a lot of people for the sheer hell of it. He's a sociopathic, homicidal corrupt corporate executive without any redeeming features, that makes a Complete Monster in my opinion. Metal Shadow X: Well, it's depending on your view, but although I don't like Osborn very much after what he did (And I personally will start to love hating him), Green Goblin is a class-A villain who I rather liked in the movie because of his ruthlessness and this series makes him even cooler (Of course, being new to the likes of Tombstone and Venom, I find them awesome villains as well). OgreProdigy: Again. I don't think he'd make a Heel Face Turn. It's very unlikely. But the point is that I do like him as a villain - That is, enjoy disliking him. According to the trope description, that's inconsistent with Complete Monsterhood. And I put him in Magnificent Bastard instead of Complete Monster because he got away with framing his son without Harry ending up in jail - Rehab, yes, but if he'd kept his mouth shut he could've gotten away with it.. Looking at what he's done, it doesn't really compare to Venom. Oh, and BTW Ouroboros, I don't believe him. In fact, that was Fridge Brilliance for me: It just felt too inconsistent that he was actually sane when he was the Goblin, right up until I realized that I'm getting it from someone who we've established to be a liar. That is, he may have said that he was perfectly composed, but just looking at his actions you can tell the difference between the Goblin and Osborn. Also, remember the scene in Season Two wherein he's briefly talking to Hammerhead about the masks? I think some corner of his mind believes that mask influences his personality, and that's what the madness is taking the form of. And yeah, I agree with Haven. What he did crossed the line, but it established him as 'Wow, what a great villain. Yay, the Stinger revealed he got away - I can't wait to see him in the next season' not 'YES! He's dead dead dead! Wait, The Stinger revealed he got away? I HAVE BEEN BETRAYED BY WEISMAN!' Again: The Complete Monster description flat-out states that the trope is not for villains that are fun to watch, it's for villains that are DISGUSTING to watch. I like the Goblin. Metal Shadow X: Unless we see more evidence in Season 3, if they show any (or if Season 3 will even be made based on the U.S ratings for Season 2) on whether or not he lied, I don't think we'll get anywhere here... Ouroboros: For the record, I hated Osborn and the Goblin, so for me he's a Complete Monster. Consider also that the stinger showed he got away, so yeah, he planned it all with a precision the completely bonkers wouldn't be able to muster. I believed him when he said he was sane, in the sense that he was as sane as ever. The man was always a full blown nut, he just hid it better. Remember his love of masks? He was hiding his true personality behind the 'mask' of Norman Osborne. And for the record, a complete monster is a villain with zero redeeming features, one you want to see go down, I wanted Osborne to go down. Fucking Karma Houdini. OgreProdigy: I see. Then we have clearly run into a subjective trope, wherin some consider him a Complete Monster and others a Magnificent Bastard. I myself quite liked the Goblin as an antagonist and did not (do not) want to see him finished off for quite some time, but I see that you disagree. Oh, and we agree perfectly on the definition of Complete Monster. Nexus: Is Season 3 really in-production? Shale: Not that I can find, as much as I'd like it to be true. Google News and Wikipedia turn up nothing. Storm: Uh, why is there not a link to the character sheet? Shale: Because whoever launched it did so with the non-hyphenated title. Storm: Removed the second line of this:
R Taco: Removed the bit about Vulture being Doc Ock's substitute Dragon, since Vulture is much weaker than Ock in combat.
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