Sailor Nothing Discussion - Television Tropes & Idioms

Semi-Known Troper: Alright, which catagories should this be under? On an unrelated note, did Animorphs really get dark enough to be compared to this, I've only read fragments of the first few books.

Looney Toons: Hm. Maybe it's time for a Notable Fanfics index? I know, technically speaking, that Sailor Nothing isn't a Fan Fic, but it's not completely not a Fan Fic either.

Lale: So, what is it? First of all, a story, or a show?

Seth: It is an original story so it is safe to go under literature. But i did come here to say Holy crap we actually have a page on a specific fanfic the gates shall open. I hope they don't...

Later: Also - this is one of the most awesome things i have ever read.

Looney Toons: Agreed. To answer Lale, it's somewhere in between. It's the only piece of fiction I've encountered on the Web that actually takes complete advantage of the Web's potential to tell a story. While it starts out as simple text, it doesn't stay that way — it would be absolutely impossible to publish it in a book, unless that book were some near-future computerized device.

Lale: I followed the link. It could easily be published in chapter form in a physical book. Is this why they say "nobody reads anymore"? Because they are reading, they just read things on a computer screen from the Internet instead of on paper in a book in their hand? If so, that's the only good explanation I can think of for publishing online, if it's the only place to get an audience.

Ack Sed: Read this in one sitting because I could not tear my eyes away. It's easily the grimmest thing I've read in a long while. It's also good enough to stand on its own,and it'd make an AMAZING comic book with minimal editing.

Semi-Known Troper: It's a fine example of how to do Dark without it falling into Darker And Edgier or Wangst. This deeply disturbed me.

Jefepato: A few of the sequences later on would be difficult to translate into chapter-book format. A Notable Fanfics listing could be warranted, but I think we'd have an absolute hell of a time sorting out what belonged there (and this story, not being a fanfic, wouldn't).

Lale: If you mean the Anachronic Order chapters, I've seen more confusing (i.e. Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man).

Eric DVH: I know we have a lot of examples from fanfics, but actually having pages for them is a tad much in my opinion. The only reason fanfic examples (and many webcomic examples, to be honest) are on here is because they are intentionally purpose-built distillations of a particular trope, so having a page for something like that all by itself is a tad redundant. This wiki itself is basically a giant fanfic. I mean, how much longer at this rate until someone makes a Yu-Gi-Oh: The Abridged Series page?

Sikon: Sailor Nothing is not fanfiction. It has absolutely nothing to do with Sailor Moon, except for the word "Sailor" and the genre. Seriously, read the disclaimer on its main page.

Eric DVH: I never said it was specifically a Sailor Moon fic, merely that it's fan fiction (perhaps a crossover fic). If it isn't a fanfic, what is it? It certainly isn't a manga or anime. Is it a serialized novel? It isn't published. Is it a "pitch" outline? We don't have entries for that either. Assuming it is some kind of original, electronic serial novel published solely off the author's site (written by a contributor, nonetheless. But admittedly not added by them) it's still an obscure piece of one-off internet writing created as a singleminded what-if experiment for the deconstruction of certain cliches. That seems a tad insular to warrant an entire page, even for this site. I'm not saying the page should be deleted (it's too late for that, and it would be kinda' mean), but I am saying that this may be the first step away from real pop-culture and into a ravine of self-absorbed original fiction.

Sikon: We have plenty of entries on webcomics, most of which fall into the definition of "self-absorbed original fiction" (except for those that are fan fiction, like Concerned for Half Life 2, but we don't have entries on those, do we?). As for "written by a contributor", to my knowledge, Twoflower himself doesn't edit anything related to Sailor Nothing on this wiki. If, say (random pick), Joss Whedon contributed to this wiki but avoided editing anything related to his shows, you wouldn't have a problem with that, would you?

Lale: Sailor Nothing is a web novel. Before reading it, I had never heard of such a thing and had to do some websurfing before I got the idea. Apparently it's not a very widespread medium, certainly not as popular as webcomics. It's just like a regular book except electronic. I don't see any direct borrowings or references that could be called copyright infringement that would prevent it from being published, except maybe the term "sailor"? But it's less like Sailor Moon than The Inheritance Trilogy is like Star Wars.

Twoflower: To clarify some points (I think the recent DB crash ate my recent comments)... I am in fact the author, this is not "fan fiction" of any stripe but is as Lale says an original web novel, and I contributed absolutely nothing to the SN based pages on TV Tropes.org. I was surprised to see pages existed when a friend of mine point them out to me, but considering the entire thing is a pile of trope deconstructions, it makes sense.

Flight Master: Ok, I get the not-a-fanfiction issue, because if it were, we'd see at least a minimal link to the Sailor Moon universe (be it a character, a place...) But to say this 'web-novel' would have existed without Sailor Moon previously existing (or the Magical Girl genre) is a tad extreme. I'm thinking about an interesting theory: if I were to write something about some magical crystals who grant wishes when they are together, wanted by some superpowered space villain, and the team of unlikely heroes who defend them using martial arts and ki attacks, and named it Dragon Fighters or something along those lines... will someone call it a 'web-novel', or just a very good Dragon Ball Alternate Universe? (Jerk Mode: off)

Gato Girl 12345: Sorry guys but I have to agree with all the others that says it's a form of fanfiction. Regardless what the author says, it still belongs to the same universe of sailor scouts saving the world and as long as the story is not 100% your own and has some sort of connection back to another person's work, it's still a form. It would be the same if I write a story of Avatar 300 years into the future. In a sense it is a web original but it's still ties back to the Sailor Moon Universe. Flightmaster, your variation is a web original/web novel because it's 100% separated from Dragon Ball Z. You don't have any indication that it exists within the Dragon Ball Z universe. With Sailor Nothing, sailor scouts and kamens still exist in the Sailor Nothing universe but the sailor scouts and kamens still belongs to Naoko Takeuchi. As for the question of copyright, it depends on the author but Naoko Takeuchi herself does love the fanfiction so if Sailor Nothing was published, there is no problem.

Lale: Wake Up Go To School Save The World is played realistically (painfully so) but not subverted.

I might read Sailor Nothing, but everyone here keeps saying that it's really depressing, what is it that makes it so depressing and should I read it?

Flight Master: You should. I can't say 'you must', but if you dare to, be ready for a lot of Sailor Moon related deja vues (I mean: young girl with a sera-fuku? Check. Talking advisor cat? Check. Misterious masked protector? Check.) Heck, even some... Inuyasha ones towards the end.

Ccoa: Fight Master, Neon Genesis Evangelion wouldn't exist without prior mecha animes, but it's considered valid and not an "alternate universe" or "fanfiction" of its predecessors. Heck, most of the fantasy novels that get their own pages wouldn't exist without Tolkein. I don't see a difference, except that one is commercial and one is not. This is not Sailor Moon (or any magical girl) fanfiction, it is simply an entry into a genre in an untraditional format. If it were actually manga or anime, no one would bat an eye about this. If webcomics are allowed, then so should (original) web literature.

I'm inclined to agree with Flight Master. On that note. the debate of whether being commercial matters is actually one worth having, as it has been stated, make the list of things that get their own page too wide and the wiki will be open to being flooded by what could kindly be described as pleas for attention, "Look at my [[Strike: Dragonball fanfic]] comepletely different universe web novel that happens to owe its existence to Dragonball!".

Lale: It's not depressing; it's effectively dark and creepy and disturbing.

Dentaku: Entries like these do have the problem that they can be used for shameless self-promotion. For the most popular, widely established web comics that might be less of an issue, but I don't get the idea that Sailor Nothing is that popular on the Web. This may have nothing to do with quality, but simply the fact that people don't like to read long wads of text on a web page. Still, I think it's up the good judgement of the Tropers to see whether an entry qualifies or not.

Lale: Tropers find this important, all right. It's got its own WMG and It Just Bugs Me pages.

Dentaku: Indeed. I think most self-promotional entries would get shot down pretty quickly anyway. It still pays off to be diligent though.

Unknown Troper: I never heard of a such a thing like this before. (getting only three site links, the main site, and two user-reviews) Now really, is this a fanfic-extended-borrows-from universe story? I mean ...it's considered an original web novel? I don't know, that's like saying a lot of the online stories I've read that only take place in a similar universe with exact terminology and such is considered an original story. I'm highly aware the Avatar The Last Airbender fanbase tends to do this, but they're still considered fanfics, just very professionally done ones. And...Gratuitous Japanese...

Wascally Wabbit: We've had this arguement before. Sailor Nothing is not a fanfic. It is an original work in the same genre as and inspired by Sailor Moon. It does not use any characters or setting elements from Sailor Moon and is clearly not set in the same fictional world. To argue that it is fanfiction is to argue that Neon Genesis Evangelion is a Gundam fanfic, that Digimon is a Pokemon fanfic and that The Lord Of The Rings is a Norse Mythology fanfic. I haven't seen any of these avatar fanworks, if anyone could provide links it would be helpfull to have the comparison.

Unknown Troper: But those examples don't make any sense because they are indeed completely different tiles and have no comparison value. Sailor Nothing seems to be an entirely different case as it's pretty much using a lot of the specific elements one would only find in Sailor Moon alone.

Like: Digimon, Pokemon = Shonen-monster battle. Evangelion, Gundam = Mecha. They have no identitical traits at all with each other other than their genre.

Shiralee: Actually those elements are pretty much the 'start' of those appearing, at least in that genre, though other magical girl anime production teams apparently found cats too common and not cute enough, leading to such beings as Mokona and the ''Mini Mew.'

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