Never Live It Down Discussion - Television Tropes & Idioms

Da Flipp: Not sure if this is worth a Justifying Edit, so I wanted to put it up here instead. On the note of Angel/Archangel in the X-Men Animated Series, to be perfectly fair: Angel has wings. Archangel has badass metal razor wings of doom. Which would /you/ rather feature in your adaptation?

Ecliptor Calrissian: If it was only about the metal razor wings of doom, that would be one thing. But his return appearances are all about hunting down Apocalypse. Comicverse Angel/Archangel is a multifaceted character, but show-verse Angel/Archangel is that guy who Apocalypse turned into a Horseman and now wants him dead ever since.

lollerkeet: If anyone has a copy of the Harvey Birdman DVD, there is a perfect quote for this page on the commentary of the Flintstones episode. The makers observe that it is very hard to find an Velma saying Jinkies!

Working Title: Rename Jean Grey Escalation: From YKTTW

Tzintzuntzan: Isn't this the same as Flanderization, except for comic-book characters instead of TV characters? I'm thinking we should lump the two.

Seven Seals: No, it's not the same. A Jean Grey Escalation is where a character becomes (in)famous for something that happened or was established way, way back, and it keeps coming back because writers (and/or readers) just won't let go of it. Flanderization is when a single aspect of a character is made bigger and bigger until the character is almost a parody of themselves. Speedy's former heroin addiction and Pym's wife-beating keep coming back, for example, but Speedy hasn't been turned into a perennial drug addict and Pym isn't someone who habitually abuses women (well, at least not in most depictions of the character...), which would be Flanderization. Likewise, Aquaman's image as a useless guy whose only power is the ability to talk to fish (mostly inspired by the Super Friends adaptation) keeps haunting him, but the character hasn't actually become the perception.

Ununnilium: Flanderization is more character-based and Jean Grey Escalation is more plot-based, as well, not to mention that the former is more comedic and the latter is more dramatic.

Your Obedient Serpent: ...more dramatic in INTENT, anyway, if not in execution.

Phartman: Cut:

The Bush Government and various Conservative groups vs. Janet Jackson's right breast. And they're still at it at the time of this writing, in early 2009. You'd think that there's nothing more important than a woman's exposed nipple...

Framed the way it is, it's totally irrelevant. And it can't be framed any other way because A: nobody is still covering this, and B: if you ask your average schmuck what thing he most closely associates with the Bush administration, he's not going to say "Nipplegate."

Cassius335: Ultimate Collosus is gay? Man, Ultimate Kitty Pryde just can't catch a break, can she?

Does Scanners really belong in here? It's just known for that, right? It's not really like it's trying to live it down, or anything, correct?

Prfnoff: Removed this example, which I think would go under Ink Stain Adaptation unless it is made more specific:

For a long time, whenever anyone who didn't read comic books thought of Batman it was as the campy Adam West version from the TV show. It wasn't until Tim Burton's Batman in 1988 that this image began to fade.

Wanders Nowhere: Tweaked the Aerith example; she was 22 in the game (not a teen) and I kinda feel 'lover' implies a more...ah...mature relationship than she and Zack actually had (see Crisis Core XD)

Excise: What's the explanation behind Green Lantern's "One punch" thing?

Greenygal: Possibly the most well-remembered moment from the Giffen/DeMatteis JUSTICE LEAGUE run, in which Guy Gardner challenges Batman to a fight and Batman subverts reader expectations by calmly knocking him out with one punch. It's been homaged in the comics several times, most notably when Hal decks Bats in the REBIRTH mini.

Lord TNK: Moved this, because the old trope name was counterproductive. Wick kept mentioning the trope as though the characters mentioned here (especially Jean) were actually like this, not that they have been given an unfair association.

Took this out, since it's really more an example of Flanderization, if anything:

Cartoon example, played for laughs: Grandpa Max from Ben 10 and his myriad strange and stomach-turning concoctions. It started with an obscure herbal remedy for the common cold, then as a believable survivalist-skill sort of thing including the eating of grubworms that happen to be there, but quickly found its way into the kitchen, resulting in a very Iron Chef meets Fear Factor sort of meal when he cooks.
- Actually, this was there from day (and episode) one. The very first meal Grandpa serves Ben and Gwen on the summer vacation trip where the vast majority of their adventures take place is a huge bowl of worms. The obscure herbal remedy was probably one of the tamest of his established attempts.

Feetman: removed * Adolf Hitler, after becoming the leader of Germany, helped create the Volkswagen brand of cars, thus creating the third largest car company. Of course, we all know what Adolf Hitler is famous for... Because I think we can all agree that starting WWII and murdering millions of civilians is hardly a minor aspect of his character that was later blown out of proportion.

Caswin: Regarding the original Trope Namer, Jean Grey, I'm curious. If we do count "fake-outs, clones, androids, [and] shapeshifters" — especially ones where it was sold as THE DEATH OF JEAN GREY — how many times has she "died" in total? Because, speaking as someone largely on the "outside", it still feels like she must've earned that reputation somehow. (That, and I'm honestly curious.)

Dragon Quest Z: The thing is that her false reputation is coming Back From The Dead. That requires being Killed Off For Real. None of those extra count. Those are just thrown in as justification, ignoring that those are common to all superheroes.

Where it started was when fans of early 1980s Marvel started running the place, not before. Then they started having characters talk about how she always does, not because it actually happened in the comics, but by them just assuming it was so (note those same writers often make other false Continuity Nods).

Her coming back might have been a big deal, but that is still ONCE, not the many times they claim it is.

This troper recalls a running-joke between himself and friends along these lines - supposedly, the X-Men will eventually tire of re-re-re-burying Jean... so then they'll just wrap her in tinfoil, stick her in the back of the fridge next to the leftover turkey loaf, and wait for her to dig her own way back out in a few days...

Ecliptor Calrissian: Hmm. I think it should be counted as the number of times she was considered to be dead for an extended period instead of "appeared to be blown up, but really got out through the back door," etc. After all, the fans thinking she dies all the time aren't playing by exact trope title definitions. For example, Tony's death in 24 was retconned into a fake-out, but that wouldn't make a fan who mentions the time Tony died and was brought back dead wrong.

In which case, we have the Phoenix thing as one death: her 'dying' to become Phoenix happened between issues, after all, so I'd be considering the death at the end of Dark Phoenix Saga as one. She comes back after it in X-Factor and... to my knowledge, never really gets a serious death (or serious "you're supposed to really think she dies so we can surprise you with her return later") again until, as mentioned before, the Running The Asylum thing.

Rebochan: Pulled the 4Kids entry because it's not like they only did one Macekre. This is their entire business model. Shifting to European shows doesn't really change this either except that they don't mangle anime much anymore. They still did this to tons of shows - Tokyo Mew Mew, Yu Gi Oh, Pokemon, One Piece, Shaman King, and most recently, Magical Do Re Mi. This is not a Never Live It Down, this is a reputation they have earned and a practice they have continued to this day.

Veto! I say that they did Never Live It Down because their defining feature is excessive editing. Now we don't see the same degree of editing, yet the Internet still thinks they do I say it stays. Also I bunch it up into class-action Mackere, a collective Mackere. One very big, yet very trivial, mistkae by the company.
- They still heavily edit their shows and continue to do this, especially in comparison to pretty much everyone that localizes anime for television. And let's not forget that those anime I listed aren't one-offs from the past, they're extremely recent. Top that off with their openly dismissive attitude, and they're never going to live this down because they're still doing it. I just gave you how many examples of shows they've done this to including very recent example. I'm not seeing where your veto has merit.

It seems to me that more than a few of these examples are really reaching. I mean, even if you only kill one person, you're always gonna be a murderer. And in the Haruhi example, even if she only rewrote reality once, the whole show is about people trying to keep her from doing it again. It's like complaining that Batman parents are dead in every incarnation even though they only died one time in the comics.

Dragon Quest Z: Then we clean them up.

Shotgun Ninja: Is that last Ctrl Alt Del example supposed to be showing the idea that Buckley alters his Wikipedia article is an example of this trope, or is it just a random flame? For the record, it isn't really accurate either way: he doesn't defend himself so much as he deletes anything negative and pretends it never existed.

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