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"Ship Sinking: Chapter 469 sure looks like it, with Sakura spending half the chapter making an Anguished Declaration Of Love, insisting that she's no longer in love with Sasuke...only to have Naruto reject her in the final panel, saying that he hates when people lie to themselves. It doesn't help that the whole ordeal starts out as Ship Tease, seems to evolve to near Relationship Upgrade and veers one eighty degrees to climax in a Take That to Naru Saku shippers who were expecting her to suddenly get over Sasuke for no reason and suddenly hook up with Naruto. Her confession is pretty much what you get in Fan Fiction pairing the two of them. "
Super Shifty: I'm getting really sick of the Naru Hina and Naru Saku fans so quickly grasping on to whatever might 'sink' the rival ship. Guys, news flash: the canon isn't over yet, and no one else gives a shit about your petty squabbles over who bumps uglies with who in an action comic aimed at middle school boys. Quit spamming TV Tropes with your geeky obsessive little shipping war.
Red Viking: Thank you
Super Shifty: Ah, seriously! Why do I need to keep deleting this? Cut it out. Can't you shippers give the non-shippers breathing room? Seriously, they're not going to decisively nuke any ships before the story is over. That would destroy the tension, no matter how stupid and tiresome it's getting. Kishimoto doesn't love you, and he probably doesn't care about how much you love your ship, whether you're Naruhina or Narusaku. Realistically, he just wants to complete his deadlines and eventually finish the storyline. And the rest of us aren't interested in seeing your retarded little ship war plastered all over an otherwise respectable wiki. You shippers drive everyone crazy, but most of us are too afraid of you to say so.
For example, the Anguished Declaration Of Love entry about Sakura looks good; it's not filled with obvious venom towards the rival ship or jumps into conclusions fueled by Fan Wank, but just objectively states facts. This is fine. This isn't annoying. When writing shipping tropes, do it like this.
Triple Elation: All right, let's try to have the entry address this without getting in the face of anyone.
Nlpnt: Changed Schizo Tech again. Word Of God says only modern weapons are out  . Engines exist but aren't ubiquitous- look in WMG for my theory as to why.
Looney Toons: I don't know why you nuked my trope list so severely, Andyroid, but I drew them all from the Wiki itself. I've replaced them, and added corroborative detail to most. If you still disagree, please don't just remove them here, but remove the Naruto examples from the trope entries themselves, because that's where the details come from.
Andyroid: I think I know what happened now. I was working on the entry about the same time, but I was at work and got called AFK to do something, so my entry must have overwritten yours when I came back to finish it. My bad.
Looney Toons: Ah, yeah, I can see how that could happen. Okay, no problem at all. Sorry to accuse.
Morgan Wick: The timed lockouts are still in effect, right? If so, I can't see how it would happen. This is the sort of situation they're supposed to prevent.
Looney Toons: The timed lockouts are for 10 minutes. If he were called away for longer than that, the lockout would timeout and the page would reopen for other people — like, say, me — to edit.
Gus: Hmm. Maybe a notification that your lock has expired/was overridden would be handy.
Morgan Wick: Wait, wait, wait. The lockout notice we have says "If you do not save your changes before then, they will be lost." Is this not true?
Red Shoe: It's kinda inaccurate. Your changes will be lost if you don't send them whether or not your time expires. If you try to send them after time expires, you'll either get your lock back (In which case, it behaves exactly like you'd opened up the edit, copied the old text, went away, then opened the editor again later and pasted it over anything that happened to be there) or get yelled at for trying to edit when someone else had a lock.
But on another note, is 'stigmata' right? In context, it sounds like the word wanted there is 'stigma', but in this genre of anime, either one could be true for all I know.
Seth: New image hotlinked and too big. Reverted. If you want to add that one shrink it down a bit and upload it onto the servers first. Rogue 7: Removed the Reed Richards Is Useless entry, as Shikamaru had been deleted from the actual trope page for a while. Later: removed the Hyuuga reference to Blank White Eyes- the trope doesn't describe them. Tanto: Akatsuki doesn't use holograms; it's fairly obvious that that's a jutsu, I think. Also, shouldn't we wait until we find out what Madara Uchiha's plan actually is before we label it a Wall Banger? I guess you could argue that Madara himself was insufficiently foreshadowed or something, but Madara himself hasn't really done anything of note in the actual series. Later: ...Haku's not a Gender Bender; he's just a bishonen. Trope doesn't apply. Removing. Zelnor: I think in the recent volumes, the Uchiha Syndrome has become so blaring, this troper swaggers in his affection for the series. Sasuke, Itachi, Sasuke, Itachi, Sharingan, Ita-squee, Sas- Chaos Akita: Given the events in chapter 397, do you think we could classify Itachi as an anti-hero? It turns out that he was a "good guy" and loved his brother after all Rogue 7: We don't know the full story yet. And I'm praying that Itachi's still a baddie or else working for his own self-interest. I hate the guy too much for me to be satisfied with anything else. Antheia: Cut the following from Schizo Tech:
Chaos Akita: As of chapter 401, do we think we could put Itachi's sparing of Sasuke into a trope or something? Eldariel: Where's the Inverse Ninja Effect? Do we have a page for it or no? It's totally a common trope, and a prime part of Naruto - OK, added. Seriously WTF people, it's like the signature of Naruto! Tanto: Conservation Of Ninjitsu. Try searching. bud0011:Should we include the following somewhere on the main article? Rogue 7: 1 and 3. The other two don't get inclusions, but the others should. bud0011: alright. but, if you don't mind me asking, why not on 2 and 4? Rogue 7: Wiki policy, based on the many hours I've wasted here. WMG and It Just Bugs Me are separate things from the main wiki, basically pseudo-forums. No other series link to them. Character sheets are basically a place to put up tropes and info about characters without cluttering up the main page of the show, and Abridged Serieses usually are linked mainly as reference
Plasma Wing: Cut some natter. Also
Jack: The commercial translation is its in order to be able to do whatever he wanted. Highly Visible Ninja world. Having a career as a ninja isn't abnormal (it'd be more noteworthy if he did not become a ninja). Shikamaru intended to be the most average ninja he could be, living the most average life he could. (Advancing to and staying a Chunin, finding an average woman to be his wife, having the requisite two kids, and retiring). Heck, he even observed the dress code. Meanwhile his teacher pegs him as a potential kage, and his She Is Not My Girlfriend is the daughter and sister of kages. He just wanted to be normal. Broken Chaos: Along the same vein as Spotlight Stealing Squad, we could always start calling Sasuke a Breakout Character. Rogue 7: With regards to Kill Em All, I don't think it really applies. From what I saw, Hinata is definitely not dead. Naruto would go batshit insane if that happened, at least 4-tails level. I think many of the ninja are all right- Tsunade pulled out all the stops with Katsuyu to save them- and that may apply to villagers, too. Let's just wait and see until we've got better intel. Edit: Upon viewing of spoilers for ch. 437, I may have been a bit prophetic with that comment. Clendy82: I am not in favor of posting spoilers from the current story arc, particularly Hinata's presumed death here, even ghosted, anymore than necessary. Yes, I'm aware of the irony in the previous sentence. At risk of being an Entry Pimp, I think that the Anyone Can Die entry is the only one that's appropriate at this point, simply because I've taken careful steps to qualify the death toll as presumptive. Until we see the body and see it buried in the cold, unforgiving earth, any trope example that has the above spoilered event as the sole example should be cleared out. On top of that, I would dispute the Stuffed Into The Fridge entry. The trope focuses on death for the sake of death as a plot device to the exclusion of all else. The example given comes close, what with the not succeeding and all, but I think it should be taken in the Heroic Sacrifice (or even Stupid Sacrifice) manner it was intended. Keep in mind that she didn't succeed on her own, her overall goal was achieved. The logical alternative, which was presumably seconds away from completion, would have been Pain using the chakra blades in Naruto to teleport/reverse summon him away to have the Nine-tails extracted. Despite the unfortunate results, she was the only one willing to make a move against such completely hopeless odds. A more accurate trope example would be if, say, Hinata has fought Pain somewhere in the forest and was killed, only for Naruto to find her at some point in the near future. Exact same set of events, but with no purpose behind it. The actual events do not fit the spirit of the trope. I'll delete the example and comment the reason section to direct back to the discussion page if anybody wants to debate it so we can keep the Natter off the main page. Chuckg: I disagree. Saying that Hinata's overall goal was achieved implies that she was deliberately trying to use her death to bring out the kyuubi, which not only makes no sense but would qualify for Stuffed Into The Fridge even if that surmise was correct. And if she wasn't intending that, then what on Earth was she hoping to accomplish? To delay Pain for three seconds? Was anything other than the kyuubi expected to help arrive in that time? Whether intentional or not, Hinata's sole action that actually shifted the tempo of the fight was motivating Naruto to a new level of powerup-rage by dying. That's the definition of Stuffed Into The Fridge, as per its entry. That Other 1 Dude: I think it's meant to be a subversion of The Power Of Love just to make it especially painful. However, it's still a case of Stuffed Into The Fridge (again, assuming actual death). Red Viking: Personally, I think that the fandom is going through a Freak Out at the moment. Chuckg: *embarassed chuckle* Yes, yes we are. Rogue 7: *not-embarrassed chuckle* Ayup. And even though I'm in the middle of it, I think it's hilarious. That Other 1 Dude: Could not. Agree. More. Though I'd find it funny if I didn't feel an inexplicable need to counter-act the Entry Pimping about this because it's assuming too much and creating needless spoilers. On the other hand, at least I can honeslty say I know what it's like when this kind of fandom shitstorm breaks out. Chuckg: Hey, if the author wants us to believe she's dead, why should we be criticized for taking him at face value until and unless contradictory evidence pours in? I mean, yeah sure, if she turns up alive again we're going to have to go back and zap a lot of entries, but such is the wiki magic. Clendy82: I just have a natural gut reaction against posting anything as concrete taking place in the current arc, much less days (or hours) after the release of the current issue. We've been hit with about 10-12 Wham Episodes in a row. Just look at the Crowning Moment Of Awesome subpage; a good third of it is just in the last ten issues. As such, events are still in flux and very little has been settled as concrete. Like I said above, I don't believe in a Naruto character's death until we see the body and it's buried in the ground with an army of black jumpsuits in attendance. I'm trying to look at the various Naruto pages from the point of view of somebody with only a moderate amount of Naruto exposure. Chuckg: Upon rereading the scene, I noticed something on page 14 . Please correct me if I'm mistaken, but the lower right panel there is an extreme close-up of Hinata's neck — with Pain's sword stuck in it. Add in that he's going 'This is how my parents were killed right in front of me', and, its looking more like stabbing her behind the obstruction was simply Gory Discretion Shot rather than a fakeout. As far as 'not believing in a Naruto character's death etc.', wasn't that the reaction after Kakashi and Jiraiya? Who actually did turn out to be dead? The plot armor is no longer infallible.
Clendy82: Hmmmm. That panel confused me while I was reading it before. My first thought was that it was a side view of Pain's hand covered in blood, but now I'm not so sure; there's alot of weird angles in there. As for your examples, the jury is still out on Kakashi, at least to me (it would be such a lame way to go out: Dying of chakra exhaustion to save Choji, of all people, just so he can tell Tsunade that Pain can push and pull people with his mind. And look how incredibly useful that information turned out to be.) As for Jiraiya...well...he had his arm cut off, his throat crushed, and had about 65,535 stab wounds before falling into a lake, swords still embedded in him. The ambiguity there is kind of lacking. The only reason I say that there's a lingering sense of Death Is Cheap is that it's happened before; during the Rescue Sasuke arc, Choji and Neji both had full-on death scenes in the manga, suffering from chakra exhaustion (there's my Kakashi justification) and wounds thought to be unrecoverable from, both out in the middle of nowhere with almost no hope of rescue, yet live they did.
Hmmmm. Just thought of something. Thus far, throughout the entire series, not one of the Rookie 9, nor anybody in their age group, has died. It's always been the older ninjas, the adults, that have kicked the bucket. The series has made a big deal about the younger generation always being ready to surpass the old, and all the deaths, at least recently (Asuma and Jiraiya, standing out) have had the theme of, "I've taught him everything I know, it's okay to move on, the village is in safe hands". I'm sure there's a WMG to be made out of that, but I'm not sure what it is.
Chuckg: And, having reread the scene yet again, and discussing it with others, I'll take it out of Stupid Sacrifice and Love Makes You Dumb even though its still Stuffed Into The Fridge. Her initial entry into the fight on page 8 is actually trying to hit Pain in the back from surprise, which is at least an actual plan. Pity that Naruto's vocal surprise at seeing her there spoiled her ambush.
Rogue 7: I forget where I saw it, but someone did an analysis of that one panel. It's Hinata, lying on her side. Her arm is pointed towards the left of the panel, body pointing downwards.
Chuckg: You mean this analysis ◊? Just saw it. Not sure if I believe it, given that it makes a few assumptions of its own. (And also requires me to believe that Pain deliberately chose not to kill someone, which is about as OOC as Shikamaru suddenly adopting Rock Lee's training schedule.)
Rogue 7: the one I saw didn't have the blade, just that that black was blood pooling.
That Other 1 Dude: Oh wait, now I understand what happened. He knocked her down, and then stabbed her. I thought he stabbed her and knocked her back at the same time (which is why I was much more hesistant to conclude that she actually died as that's not nearly as violent). My biggest problem with that analysis is that it's assuming the blade broke off in the process, when they've been shown to be much more durable and able to plot through human flesh before (except when Pain doesn't want them to be). I have to agree with Rogue 7 on this in that it looks like her armpit with a pool of blood coming out from somewhere on her chest and leaking downward (her bodies was knocked back into a raised slant of land). The illusion of a blade is from the way her jacket is folded (there are three creases separating her arm, armpit, and side), which also puts the source of the bleeding higher on the body than the analysis suggests.
Chuckg: And, according to spoilers (and a posted scan) at the narutofan.com forums, Hinata starts out the next issue dying, but not 100% dead yet (given that dead people don't have thought balloons). Granted, given how messed up she looked, its entirely possible that she might finish bleeding to death on the very next page, or there might be a last-second rescue, or God only knows what. We'll have to wait until the issue comes out to make sure. And yes, This Troper is still utterly mystified as to how the hell Pain had a helpless, immobile target at arms' length, and yet still did not hit an immediately fatal spot.
Clendy82: Issue 438 has just been released. I'll try to keep my smug "I Knew It"-ness to a minimum. On another note, it's kind of hard to tell, but did Naruto just blow up the Hokage Mountain? And Anko's back? With Sai and Yamato? Tracking down Kabuto? So many questions...
That Other 1 Dude: I'm not sure if he destroyed the thing either. Also, weren't a lot of people hiding in there?
Rampulus: There were, just like in the last invasion, but the blast seemed to miss the shelters in the mountain. Then again, they might have been resurrected too if anything did happen to them.
Red Viking: I was wondering, should we make an entirely new Spoiler page for Naruto like how there's a Crowning Moment Of Awesome page and a WMG page? These recent chapters are starting to disrupt the main article, especially with the Hinata spoilers underneath the series' description. That way, we can keep track of all the recent spoilers and add them in after a certain amount of time. What say you all? Chuckg: I advise against. If we do it for Naruto, every series will want one. Also, this spoiler explosion is a temporary condition — when "Pain vs. Konoha" finally stops, the pace should slow down to normal. The spoiler block underneath the series' description is intended to be a temporary fix for this problem that we can delete the instant its no longer needed, while an additional page would not be as temporary. Mr.91: Why exactly does, on the characters page, the lines under Tenten "I'm afraid that's all we know, gentlemen." link to Metalocalypse? That Other 1 Dude: It's a joke from Metalocalypse (one member of The Omniscient Council Of Vagueness says this after describing Deathklok's member in what was essentially the same as the opening) about how little has actually been detailed about her. lanky: I'm just going to mention this here, since Hinata is a damned divisive character when it comes to the Naruto fandom. I tossed Break The Cutie up here, since I really think she qualifies for the trope given how brutally Kishimoto goes out of his way to destroy her confidence during the Chunin arc at Neji's hands. Then, y'know, the whole scare during the Anyone Can Die arc with Pain. Kishimoto's Genre Savvy enough to know people were freaking the fuck out during the latest arc given the sheer number of casualties he'd inflicted on his main cast. In fact, he might qualify for an author entry on this list for this very reason. Red Viking: But Hinata doesn't break, she just has low self confidence. Had she broke, then nothing Naruto said would have helped her. As for the Pain arc, that wasn't Break The Cutie. That was a massive Freak Out from the fans. Rampulus: If anything, Hinata becomes more confident as a result of fighting Neji, as she tells Naruto that she starts to like herself after her defeat in the preliminaries. Seriously people, lay off the Danzo hate. I know he's not exactly the most likeable guy around but he isn't nearly as bad as he's being made out to be. Great Pikmin Fan: why does it say in the edit page (or whatever) that this article describes a trope? Did the reviews turn into massive flame wars or something? Anaheyla: I contributed a review myself and at the time there was maybe one response to another review. Dunno whether a flamewar erupted after that point but... Rampulus: Might we consider not allowing edits on plot developments until a group besides Sleepy Fans releases a scanlation? Sleepy Fans has made mistakes in the past, even before a significant error in Chapter 453 (suggesting Sasuke wanted to kill all five Kages), and it might be best to avoid basing examples on unreliable sources. {{Rogue 7)): The only problem with that is that I get my Naruto updates from One Manga, and since they only ever use Sleepy Fans for some reason, I don't want to be stopped from adding examples. Rampulus: Manga Toshokan is a good source that, best of all, typically features multiple translations. I've recently made a point of using it in links.
Rampulus: I'd like to hear some more opinions on this, especially since supposedly confirmed spoilers for the upcoming chapters may shed light on the "Madara is the former Mizukage" plot thread. There doesn't seem to be any follow-up on what Sai said to Sakura, but the dialogue mentioned seems to be only half a chapter's worth, and the flashback in the last chapter was left out of many of the spoilers, so it's possible it will come up in the next chapter. If this is the case, Sleepy Fans' translation could pose problems and cause us to post inaccurate information.
ryzvonusef: I would like to recommend Mangahelpers, since they have neatly arranged sourced of raws, translation and scanlations in many languages. And the translations there are the ones used by most scan groups (except Sleepyfans, sigh!) so we can quite direct from the translator's page, and be aware of any edits. Oh, and it has the largest manga/manhwa/manhua database to date, so we can use for any topic. :)
Rogue 7: With regards to the natter I axed on Foreshadowing- Jiraya, Orochimaru, and Tsunade are all derived from an old Japanese legend- I forget the title, honestly, which specifically associated them with Toad, Snake, and Slug. Showing the kids on each of their "totem" animals was most likely deliberate, based on just how similar the Sannin are to those in the legend. Nithael: the legend is "The tale of the gallant Jiraiya" (or "Jiraiya Goketsu Monogatari").
Kris Mahai: Removed Keet from both the main page and the character sheet for Naruto. It's already been decided on the Keet discussion page that Naruto isn't an example. He's been re-added to the Keet page at least three times. Just a request to not add him any more. Also, removed Cute Shotaro Boy, because like above, he doesn't really fit. Red Viking: Removed the following: Misaimed Fandom: While Pain has done many terrible acts, people tend to focus on those and forget about his being established as an Anti Villain, somehow being upset over his being suddenly given a tragic backstory. Just seems like an open invitation for a bunch of Justifying Edits. A tragic back story doesn't automatically give someone a free pass for everything they've done. Regarding the removal of Relationship Writing Fumble, from the page history: "reason: It's not a Relationship Writing Fumble because Hinata's feelings are quite clear and there's been a bunch of build up with Sakura. Wait until the actual pairings hit because 'then it may be a case of this trope, but not before." Three years ago, I would have accepted this. Since then the series has way past outlived its omniscient Four Lines All Waiting license in that regard. What, we won't be allowed to call Naruto out on the endless Ship Tease sans progress until 2074 when the manga ends with Naruto wheezing on his deathbed, "I only regret... Not having married..." gasp wheeze the end? Red Viking: You can't call Hinata's feelings a Relationship Writing Fumble because she's clearly stated her intentions. As for Sakura, if she hooks up with Naruto, then it's not a fumble because all of that build up makes for a logical conclusion. If Sakura always saw him as a friend, then there would be an argument for a fumble. Being dissatisfied with the drawn-out status of the pairings isn't a reason to start declaring a Relationship Writing Fumble because that's what It Just Bugs Me is for. Besides, all signs are pointing towards a resolution on this matter, so just hold out for a bit longer. Triple Elation: All right, I seem to have assumed Relationship Writing Fumble encompassed anything having to do with relationship writing that was a fumble (maybe it could use a more specific title?). Still, it's not that It Just Bugs Me. It bugs anyone who is not only into this series for the explosions. Up to now romance just wasn't a big deal in this series so that was ok, but recently the manga has started to pretty much push this unresolved issue in your face. Seeing as it has been not resolving this issue for longer than Duke Nukem Forever has been in development... Rampulus:As I mentioned on WMG, it's entirely likely that nothing will happen until the Sasuke situation is resolved, given Naruto and Sakura's unresolved issues with him; Naruto has stated that he can't tell Sakura how he feels as long as he hasn't fulfilled his promise to Sasuke and it's somewhat unlikely that Sakura would forget about Sasuke and go with Naruto without one final scene putting her feelings to rest. Throughout much of the series, various blocks had been put in place of characters expressing their feelings for others or having them returned (and legitimately so), and now that Sakura knows how Naruto feels about her, Naruto knows how Hinata feels about him, and Naruto and Sakura are being forced to decide how to deal with Sasuke, the series seems to be buliding toward a resolution to those questions, and possibly the story itself. Anaheyla: Prepare for an edit war. Drunk_samurai's done this twice before on One Piece and Bleach |
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