Working Title: Hikaru Genji plan:
From YKTTW
The
Last of the Mohicans one makes no sense, and never happened. Can I delete it?
arromdee: I don't think Shana and Dart count. Their difference in age is only 5 years, hardly enough for it to be a pseudo-parental role.
Also, while it may be a reactionary fantasy, it's not a
Reactionary Fantasy, because that's specifically about fantasies that are reactionary but presented as empowering.
Unknown Troper: I don't think the Doctor counts either. He met Reinette twice, for no more than a few minutes at a time, before they 'danced'. Also, while it was half a lifetime for Reinette between her first meeting with him and her last, it was a matter of hours (or less) for the Doctor.
arromdee: That's all true, but that's pretty much why it counts. She waited all her life for her protector the Doctor, and the story strongly implied sex based on those feelings. The fact that it's a short time for the person taking advantage of those feelings doesn't affect it.
arromdee: Deleted
- In fairness, the girl is adopted, so it's not quite as bad as it sounds...
If the girl isn't adopted, it's just plain incest, not this trope (except for some borderline cases like Lazarus Long's clones).
Hazel: Does the case of Layla and Jamie in X-Factor count? The ages are unclear, but he clearly thinks of her as a child and balks at the idea of a romance between them, while she is quite determined. It also seems to be setting up
a case of She Is All Grown Up where she comes back from Bishop's alternate future all non-jail-bait-like and Jamie has a romance epiphany etc. but I am a month or two behind on the comics so I don't know.
- arromdee: It sounds like it counts, but I wouldn't really know. If you think it does, add it, though I'd wait for the setup situation to happen first.
L Guardinal: What in the name of all that is holy is the image from? Gross gross gross with a side order of intense
Squick.
- Second. That's one of the most disturbing things I've seen in my life, and I've been using the Internet for almost ten years.
- Thirded! Sweet fancy Moses in a sidecar! The frightening thing is, the color scheme makes it look very like the old kid's books my grandmother used to have... And "daddies" is misspelled.
- Um...fourthed? That's just wrong...
Rothul It actually is from a 1950 children's book, mispellings and all, called "A Girl and Her Daddy". It's creepy, creepy in that
Relationship Writing Fumble and
Have A Gay Old Time kind of way.
Freezair For A Limited Time: Wow. I may have to plumb the depths of a local store that sells vintage kid's books... Because I've
just GOT to know how disturbing it is for myself.
arromdee: The Drizzt example says "Viconia" here and "Vierna" in
Brother Sister Incest. Which one is it?
Man Without A Body: All I know is, it ain't Viconia. I read
Homeland, and, although I can't remember the character's name, I'm pretty sure that Viconia is the name of a character from the
Baldurs Gate games. And she's a de Vir, not a do' Urden.
arromdee: Baldur's Gate took just about everything from preexisting D&D material. The Drow of the Underdark supplement for 2nd Edition predates Baldur's Gate. It has a list of drow names and it includes both Viconia and Vierna. It's entirely possible that the name was used somewhere else and made it into the supplement, and then Baldur's Gate took it from the supplement.
Keenath: It seems to me that this trope desperately needs some cleaning. There are a ton of examples given that aren't actually examples of the trope. A
Hikaru Genji Plan is specifically building a sexual relationship on a preexisting parental relationship. Just having an adult character meet a child character and later (when they're of age) hooking up, does not qualify. There must be a parental role involved for it to be an example of this trope.
arromdee: I still think the Doctor Who example qualifies. It doesn't literally have to be a parent; a childhood protector is close enough, and it was obvious that Reinette put the Doctor on a pedestal and had been waiting all her life for him, even though their actual interaction may have been only for a short period of time.
Keenath: Well, in any case, the following examples were removed because they are either explicitly stated to not be a parental or protector relationship, or because they don't explicitly mention it. If I've removed one incorrectly, please just re-add it. (The "Bastard!" one in particular, I never saw, so he might actually be a parent figure to her and the author just didn't say so.) I saw
Memoirs, though, and I'm pretty sure there was nothing there beyond whatever
Squick is inherent in a
May December Romance.
- This is basically the exact romantic subplot of Memoirs of a Geisha, wherein Sayuri falls for The Chairman, who buys her shaved ice when she is a little girl and he is in his forties. They wind up together in the end, and this is made to seem right and happy. This troper watched the movie version with two girls who thought it was romantic, though he was pretty squicked out.
- Played somewhat worryingly straight in Mercedes Lackey's and James Mallory's Obsidian Trilogy. The human Wild Mage Idalia and the elven warrior/Dragon Mage Jermayan are in love. Elves, however, marry for life, and only once, and like most elves, Jermayan's people can live for much longer than the healthiest human. After they reconcile themselves to this, Idalia dies as part of a price for a powerful spell she cast. Then the queen of the elves has a child...and the child has most of Idalia's features; apparently reincarnation is something elves believe in. He notes that now they're both elves, "eighteen years is not so long to wait".
- One of the creepier subplots in Pearl S. Buck's The Good Earth involves the male protagonist's relationship with Pear Blossom, a girl he allowed into his household as a servant. When they consummate a relationship, she's still jailbait by modern standards and he's at least old enough to be her grandfather. I'm not sure if this counts because the man didn't directly raise the girl as a daughter but took her in as a servant out of pity.
- Honorable mention goes out to Hartigan and Nancy in Sin City. Hartigan saves Nancy as a ten year old girl, then gets sent to prison. Eight years later, he gets out, finds her grown up into a sexy stripper, and saves her again. She has, in the intervening time, fallen for him, but he rejects her, saying he's old enough to be her grandfather (Squick!). Of course, by the end of the story, he confesses that he's in love with her, and they get a pretty good kiss in. And then he shoots himself in the head out of love for her. It's not any more messed up than any other Sin City story, but they never actually get it on, so it's not a perfect example of this trope.
- In the Bastard! manga, Dark Schneider rescues a dark elf child and then pursues a sexual relationship with her once she comes of age. (Of course, [[Understatement Dark Schneider isn't exactly meant to be a paragon of moral behavior...]])
Cpt Button: Reverted this because it isn't true:
- Lazarus Long has sex with his Opposite Sex Clones, also in Time Enough For Love. Uses the version where the girls initiate it and the guy is initially reluctant. This one really is incest, almost to the point of masturbation, but that aspect of it isn't as shocking since he's already traveled back in time and had sex with his own mother.
Ununnilium: Oh, God, the
Conversation In The Main Page:
- Too bad for them that he is much more interested in young boys. Apparently, as clarified further in the novels, he was actually trying to execute a Hikaru Genji Plan with the young Sousuke. He pretty much told 12-year-old Sousuke, "Why don't you come to my camp? There's food, ammunition, and AS parts there." (Which sounds suspiciously like a "There's candy over in my van, little boy" scenario.) Knowing Gauron, it's highly doubtful that his plans were anything pure and kind-hearted. Of course, Sousuke refuses, and Gauron spends the next five years unable to forget "beautiful" Sousuke.
- Personally, I wouldn't put it outside the realm of possibility that the gate swings both ways, or that he would've done whatever he deemed essential to building up their love for him to the obsessive levels visible in TSR - or that he would've done them just because they were convenient, for that matter.
- Hmm, yes and no. If you read the novels that follow after The Second Raid, you will discover that Kalinin is not as honest and kind towards Sousuke as he first seems. His cold and calculating nature, only occasionally seen in the anime, is fast becoming a defining trait and he ends up not only betraying Tessa and Mithril and almost killing Gavin Hunter (the fat little man from the Intelligence Department in Hong Kong), but also trying to assassinate Sousuke at Leonard's orders. All of this done in earnest and without any excuse such as a playing a double game or being brainwashed. He truly believes in Leonard's plans, and is ready to eliminate anyone who stands in his way. Especially Sousuke and Tessa, since he considers them very dangerous. On the other hand, Gauron is shown to have betrayed Amalgam for Sousuke — again, the damage he has caused to his former organization is much more clear in the novels than it is in the anime. The clues he left Sousuke end up being the drive force behind the action for the novel following TSR, and Amalgam feels Gauron's betrayal quite deeply, something even the usually unflappable Leonard Testarossa is shown to be quite aware of. As he clearly tells Sousuke, "It seems he really liked you. [...] Even our organization seemed confused by what happened that night." So, from that perspective, and taking into consideration what Gauron told Sousuke in Hong Kong, he resented Kalinin (and those like him) because they are basically hypocrites, and even cowards, who hide behing pretty, shallow words, when all they really want is to always be on the winning side. The difference between them being that Gauron is the winning side, no matter whom he was working for. His strength is his own, not coming from the outside — Lambda Driver nonewithstanding. And his loyalty towards Sousuke, as twisted and unhealthy as it is, is the only one that never wavered during the entire course of the novels — everybody else betrayed Sousuke at least once, including Kalinin, Tessa and Kaname.
- And if you really want an example of a paternal figure who hasn't betrayed Sousuke, then you have Majid, the Afghanistani (or Helmajistani in the anime) guerrilla leader who adopted Sousuke after the boy tried to kill him. Both Kalinin and Gauron knew that Majid was "a deeply compassionate man", and it's really because of his loyalty to Majid that Sousuke turned down Gauron's offer during their first meeting. And he only went with Kalinin after Majid was gone from his life — possibly killed.
I am redacting:
"Many prophets in the Abrahamic faiths did some variant of this; when it wasn't plain old paedophilia, but due to Values Dissonance, they get away with it and no one nowadays likes to stress it too much."
- Insinuations are not enough. Instead, I'd prefer chapter & verse on a Biblical prophet acting as Mohammad did.
h_v: Cut...
- This troper believes this is the logical conclusion of the series of Little Orphan Annie. Oliver Warbucks adopts Annie. His wife is cruel to her and Annie runs aways . She comes back , and Mrs. Warbucks is gradually written out of the series without any explanation whatsoever. The series eventually transforms into the perpetual abduction and rescue of Annie by Oliver & Co. from yet another set of kidnappers. The pair are excessively close a la Sesshomaru and Rin from Inu-Yasha. This is true even in the various live adaptations (Annie: I don't need sunshine now to turn my skies to blue. I Don't Need Anything But You. I love you, Daddy Warbucks.) The pair even sing I Don't Need Anything But You to each other as a duet. I mean, come on now! He doesn't even bother to do this with Grace!
...because a) it's completely Fanon, and b) a father and daughter singing about how much they love each other isn't proof that she being raised to marry him, and c) wat.
