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I'm not sure either of these examples involve the Fourth Wall.
Star Trek as a TV series never existed in the Star Trek universe- there's no reason to expect there would be trekkers in San Franscisco. Same with Smallville- there are no Superman comics in the Smallvilleverse because the character wasn't invented in the history of that world.
These only seem like Fourth Wall problems if you try to fit the shows into our universe. Since there was no radioactive meteor shower in Kansas, or Eugenics Wars in our universe, they don't fit.
Gus: The argument for the Trek entry is weak, I'd agree. The Smallvile entry has a better case. The references to the Supe-mythology are clearly meant to acknowledge the existence of Supe-mythology as-is, outside the Smallville frame.
Morgan Wick: I'd argue that the Fourth Wall can be defined as the lack of the shows themselves within themselves. (Incredibly deep, or off my rocker?)
Looney Toons: Slightly off your rocker. Look at it this way: if you were the hero of the story of your own life, would you expect to find the comic book adaptation or the trade paperback version of your story in the local convenience store?
Gus: The Show Within A Show "The Valley" that crops up from time to time in 'The OC' is a self-reference that only works -- to the extent it works at all -- because it pierces the fourth wall. The Smallville Superman mythos references are of the same flavor. The fourth wall is a construct that exists only because the actors and writers ignore it. When they metaphorically stand on stand on the audience side of the wall and make observations or look through it and address the audience directly, they are invalidating the wall.
It is defined by either being ignored or invalidated. Kind of like dating.
later: I'm going to store this here, in case someone wants to defend it later: A non-television example is in Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home, in which the crew of the Enterprise ends up in contemporary San Francisco, yet is not mobbed by autograph-seeking Trekkies despite being in costume. The Fourth Wall must be strengthened with transparent aluminum or Kryptonite, as appropriate, in cases like these.
Looney Toons: A kind of footnote to the Smallville stuff. Around 1984 or 1985, just before the Crisis on the Infinite Earths, a Superman (or rather, a Superboy) arose on Earth-Prime, The DCU's pseudo-"real world" universe at the time. What makes it interesting is that Earth-Prime had a Superman comic-book mythology already; the story included the Kents discussing the possible problems inherent in naming their son Clark because of the Superman connection (the circumstances of his adoption were such that they did not know of his origins), and young Clark's discovery of his powers (which developed gradually a la the Byrne retool a few months later) while dressed as Superman for a costume party. A brief article on him can be found here
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Morgan Wick: It almost seems like there's no good example of this, according to the definitions we've arrived at here, that wouldn't go in No Fourth Wall.
Gus: I had the same thought, Morgan. Well, nearly. The definition of the fourth wall is pretty straightforward. It's the glass on the front of the TV tube. I think you're right, that the examples should be pulled over to No Fourth Wall. In the case of Fourth Wall nothing is more plainly illustrated by the examples.
Morgan Wick: By the way, I think I know what the fourth wall is. Still, "the glass on the front of the TV tube" sounds pretty neat-o. Any way we can work that into the entry, especially since I don't think it reflects that very well? Sadly, there isn't any such neat analogy for movies or books...
Gus: I stuffed it in there.
Ununnilium: I'd just like to note that, if I was a famous hero in real life, I would be surprised if there weren't fictionalized versions of my life floating around in various media.
Gus: Sort of like Hellboy saying "I hate that comic book!", from the movie. :-) Doesn't hold up for Smallvile, though, because Supe hasn't put on the suit and gotten his picture in the paper, yet.
Planish: The best Trek example I can think of is Capt. Picard in episode "Ship In A Bottle" speaking of the the virtual world they had trapped Moriarty in: "But... who knows - our reality may be very much like theirs. And all this... might just be an elaborate simulation running inside a little device... sitting on someone's table." And doesn't he then look directly at the camera? [edited next day - had a discussion with family, they say no, he didn't look at the camera)
How about Aunt whats-er-name in the the first Spiderman movie, saying "You're not Superman, you know", and he does this brief deer-in-headlights look. Sort of a fourth-wall-crossover hybrid?
Meta4: Seeing as we have a separate article for Breaking The Fourth Wall, I don't see any reason why half of our Fourth Wall article should be about the lack of the Fourth Wall. Hence why I cut that paragraph. |
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