Capcom Sequel Stagnation Discussion - Television Tropes & Idioms

osh: Gonna chime in and mention that using Zero is big in Japan if you want to quickly indicate something is a prequel-to-everything-else, especially if you've done versions of the story in a lot of different time periods already.

Phartman: Capcom is the only company I can think of that releases them this way in the U.S. and Europe, though. Most of the time, prequels get a subtitle rather than a number because if they didn't, well, then they'd have to call it "part zero."

And whoever mentioned Mega Man not counting is right, because Zero is the name of one of the characters in that series.

HeartBurn Kid: Zero does make sense as a prequel name, true; however, Capcom did kinda screw the pooch by making Street Fighter Zero, which comes between Street Fighter and Street Fighter 2. 1, 0, 2? And then Capcom USA changed it to Street Fighter Alpha, which makes a little more sense, I guess.

Phartman: So what happens if they decide to do an installment set before the prequel? Would it be called -1?

Ununnilium: Comic books did a lot of "issue zero" as prequels in the 90s, and even some -1s. Then of course there's Gundam Wing Zero, and Metroid Zero Mission...

Phartman: I remember seeing one comic's first issue was 0, but it wasn't a prequel; they just started with 0 instead of 1. Having "zero" in the name doesn't necessarily count, but since you seem to enjoy busting people's chops I'll let you have it.

Ununnilium: I'm just pointing out examples. ^,^ Though you're right, not all "0" issues were prequels.

Phartman: I know, I just like messing with people too.

osh: I've seen comic books that are just supplemental material to a run also get released as a 0.

((Nerem)): Neither Gundam Wing Zero nor Metroid: Zero Mission are prequels. Zero Mission is a remake of the first game, and Gundam Wing Zero is the upgrade to Gundam Wing in the show. The reason why its 'Wing Zero' is because of the ZERO System installed on board... Though, admittedly, it was a unit designed before any of the other Gundams, but never built until much later. The other Gundams were based off of its plans. And yes, Rockman Zero refers to Zero, the character, being the protagonist this time. So no, it doesn't count. Also, Fate/Zero, Ace Combat Zero (even released in America as such), and so on.

Ununnilium: Yes, yes, we've already established on IRC that I meant Gundam Wing: Episode Zero.

Ununnilium: Taking out:

Speaking of Mega Man, that series is a subversion: while Capcom has no problem dusting off and rereleasing the old games (most recently Mega Man Powered Up! for the PSP), they also have several different series in the line which are constantly receiving true sequels - often several a year. Fan reaction is mixed.

...because that's not a subversion. It's something totally, entirely different. ...seriously, go read Subverted Trope.

Phartman: I'd say Mega Man is more of an exception than a subversion, a lot of people don't understand the distinction.

Most of Capcom's properties are guilty of the trope to a degree, but since Street Fighter and Resident Evil are the two that spring to mind most quickly when one thinks of Capcom Sequel Stagnation, those are the two that need to be left up.

Ununnilium: My problem is, does it have more than those two examples? If not, this trope might be better folded up into a greater entry for Capcom in general.

Zeke: I've written a new Mega Man entry which I think covers the situation pretty thoroughly. As long as this article has Capcom in the name, people will keep adding Mega Man to it, so I wanted to make sure it was done right.

Phartman: And it bears repeating that it was named after Capcom because they're the worst about it, but they're not the only ones. That'd be like saying that it's impossible for a patient to be diagnosed with Lou Gehrig's Disease because the patient's name isn't Lou Gehrig. Any publisher who constantly whores out re-releases and prequels can qualify.

Ununnilium: Don't Resident Evil: Survivor and Resident Evil: Dead Aim take place after 1998?

Phartman: You have a problem with everything. Look, if you're so intent on policing what people do here, just take the entry out. Jesus.

To answer your question: It's those two and Code: Veronica, but that's it. That's why it reads overwhelming majority rather than all.

Ununnilium: Policing schmolicing. It does, in fact, say "every single" for 1998.

Phartman: Don't you use that fake Yiddish on me, young man! I concede: the overwhelming majority applied to the location, not the date. The "gaiden" games don't really mention any dates (unless it's obvious, as in the case of the Outbreak series), but Code: Veronica is stated in the opening crawl to be "three months later" than the events of RE 2, which would place it in December of 1998.

Ununnilium: For the two I mentioned, I read a timeline that had them in 1999 and 2002, respectively. Don't know where they got their dates, but...

___

From Tola:

Two words-Dynasty Warriors.

5 games to date, not counting things like the various 'Empires' games and Expansion Pack-like disks(Which takes the total to about 8-10 in all), and despite being the SAME DAMM THING EVERY TIME, is strong enough for varients, like Samurai Warriors, and I've heard tell of a Gundam varient. If there's ANYTHING that deserves to be under this, it's that.

Your thoughts?

Bob: Make it so.

"While [Nintendo] sit in this position that many game developers worldwide with slews of new and interesting game concepts would happily hack their wedding tackle to occupy, all they do is constantly remake the same games. Okay, so sometimes you've got an ocarina, and sometimes you're in a boat, and sometimes you're a werewolf having repulsive erotica drawn about you by people on DeviantART, but pick any one of the ninety billion Zelda games there've been so far and odds are good you'll always be the same bloody guy saving the same bloody girl with the same bloody boomerang."
— Zero Punctuation's review of Zelda: Phantom Hourglass discussing an example (in the reviewer's opinion) of Capcom Sequel Stagnation

Luc: Does anybody besides the anon IP address at 167 not like the quote (preserved here in case 167 removes it again), and if so, what is wrong with it?

Lord Seth: Hrm, it might be because Zelda might not be considered an example of this trope. It's not listed on the page anywhere else, for example.

Luc: Well, Zelda's right on the edge of this trope. As the quote implies, the plot varies very little from game to game; some elements do change, but the core elements remain involute, unchanging; on the other hand, a lot of game systems do change from game to game, if not as much as Yahtzee would like. And the quote more or less sums up a lot of people's complaints about Capcom Sequel Stagnation.

Tanto: It's too long and it's not particularly accurate — Zelda does retain a lot of its core elements, but that's part of its charm. It hasn't released a dozen Mission Pack Sequels of Link To The Past or rereleased Ocarina of Time hundreds of times, so I don't think it counts, myself. Plus, there's too much goddamn Yahtzee-worship on this site anyway; I'd just as soon leave the borderline quotes out.

joeyjojo: rigth removed.

Filby: Taking it out again. It's only tangentially related to the article and frankly I'm getting tired of hearing the same smarmy Brit's voice in my head every single time I browse the Video Games section, myself.

Cliche: You know what's worse? The entry for Nintendo doesn't elaborate one bit on how it fits this trope, instead saying "look at the quote". The quote doesn't tell me anything about specific games! Somebody please elaborate.

Morgan Wick: There is a Yahtzee quote that fits this trope much better, I believe from the GTA 4 review.

Castlin: Hey, how about Metal Slug?

Gattsuru : For the Armored Core series, the numerology is 1 series (Armored Core, Armored Core : Project Phantasma, Armored Core: Master of Arena), 2 series (Armored Core 2, Armored Core 2 : Another Age), 3 series (Armored Core 3, Silent Line : Armored Core, Armored Core : Nexus, Armored Core: Nine Breaker, Armored Core : Formula Front, Armored Core : Last Raven), 4 series (Armored Core 4). There's another 4 series game in Japan, Armored Core : for Answer/4A, but it's not likely to be release in America at this rate. That's three original series games, two 2 series games, six 3 series games, and potentially two 4 series games. Yes, it is stupidly confusing. The entire 1 series is set within the same universe, with the player potentially being the same Raven, with a Saved Game Bonus for players who got through the earlier game or games. When the PS2 was released, that concept no longer worked, and the storyline and characters were left at that time, no save game bonus across from 2 series to 1 series. The 3 series screwed up even that; having a 2 series save lets you use first-person mode, but doesn't transfer parts or money, and Formula Front can't transfer saves with other 3 series games. Each game has its own story, such as it is. The first in each series usually revamps every part and adds a number of them, but other games in the series can range from just adding a half-dozen parts to revamping almost every part. Each number series tends to add new features and updated graphics, but Nine Breaker smoothed out graphics as well. And even the naming scheme changes randomly.

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