Betty And Veronica Discussion - Television Tropes & Idioms

Rebochan I brought this up on the Skies Of Arcadia page also, but there's no way that Fina and Aika can be called a Betty and Veronica. Namely, there's never any sexual attraction presented, period. Aika obviously has very strong feelings towards Vyse, but romance is never even discussed over the course of the game in regards to them. This also kills the Tenchi Solution link because if Vyse never had to choose between two women in the first place, he can't possibly be expected to.

no, no, no! ginny weasley is not a "veronica". take it from someone who actually grew up reading the archie comic books.

veronica = petulant, spoiled, high maintenance, emotional, flighty, unreliable

the high maintenance, emotional bit sounds more like cho chang (though who could blame her with her first boyfriend being killed)

betty = pragmatic, tomboyish, nice, low maintenance, friendly

sounds a lot more like ginny weasley, who is always presented as being heroic, gutsy and down to earth... a betty. an updated betty, but nonetheless, betty.

Rinny: I'm not sure this trope ever really happens in Harry Potter. If so, I agree with the person above in switching Ginny and Cho - remember when Harry asks Cho and not Ginny to the Yule Ball, the only time he ever makes something resembling a choice between them. I think the closest Rowling gets to Betty And Veronica is with Lily, Snape, and James, and even then, who exactly would be Betty and Veronica is probably up for debate. Also, I propose leaving Luna out of this entirely. At no point did I think she was meant to be shipped with anyone.

Lale: Judging from the entry, I thought the Betty was the more traditional, feminine, Yamato Nadeshiko one and the Veronica the more modern, slightly tougher, maybe Action Girl one. Heroic, gutsy, and down-to-earth sounds very Veronica, according to the entry.
Later: Wow. Somebody really changed the entry, which eliminated most of the examples below, you know. Asuka spoiled-but-cute?

Tzintzuntzan: Way back when I created the initial entry for this, I deliberately wrote it to be gender-neutral; now it's two girls and a guy only. I agree with Lale that it needs to be equal opportunity.

Lale: I don't want to rewrite this one to be gender neutral; it's fine the way it is. I just can't think of a name for the counterpart trope. Suggestions?

Solandra: Hmmm. The most popular "girl torn between two guys" plot includes a Dogged Nice Guy and a Troubled But Cute guy. The girl doesn't always pick the latter: it mainly depends on whether the Dogged Nice Guy is portrayed as the nice guy from next door (in which case he'll usually win) or as a bland guy who smiles too much (in which case the other guy will be refreshingly free-spirited).

Too bad there doesn't seem to be an example for this that's as well-known as Betty and Veronica. Reliable Versus Reckless? Two Mr Rights? Hephaestus And Ares?

Katherine: Eh, I don't necessarily like splitting them (the Ally McBeal reference is male/female/male, and I could've sworn I added Cyclops/Phoenix/Wolverine to some page somewhere), but I'd vote for Hephaestus And Ares. Or Arthur And Lancelot.

Lale: I was hoping for the "X And Y" format to mirror this one. Excellent description, btw, Solandra.

Fake Nog: Isn't 'Pretty in Pink' or 'Sixteen Candles' an iconic representation of either outcome. So.. the two guys in one of those films? (Pardon my Idiot Ball - I've seen 'Pretty in Pink', I just... er, apparently didn't care enough to remember any of it...)

Tzintzuntzan: Apologies to Lale for incorrectly stating what she wanted. But Katherine's right that there are some woman-in-the-middle examples on this page(like Phoenix). It's still not clear to my why we need woman-in-the-middle needs to be a separate entry, any more than we need two Love Triangle entries (one for male-in-the-middle and one for woman-in-the-middle). Is there that much difference in how woman-in-the-middle tends to go down?

Lale: Yeah — the woman is in the middle.

Tanto: In theory it seems like this should be one entry, but the current version is so male-slanted that it would require a significant rewrite.

Lale: I just don't want to chop up a perfectly good entry by lumping in the inversion, and I'm usually a Lumper.

Twin Bird: Does the South Of Nowhere example really count? It seems like a necessary part of this trope is the love triangle, someone having to choose (or never, ever choose) between "Betty" and "Veronica." If they're dating, does it count?

Star Bright: If there isn't a trope for when the vertex of a Betty And Veronica Love Triangle decides to Take A Third Option, I propose we name it The Cheryl Blossom.

Nobodymuch: Seems to me that there is too much stretching to fit every single combination of three people into the betty and veronica mold even when there is no romantic triangle in the first place.

Chrisell: Regarding Stardust, I think the current entry has them the wrong way around. Tristan's choice was between the annoyingly argumentative, well-suited and falling-in-love-with-him Yvaine on the one hand, and bitchy, unattainable, disinterested Victoria on the other. The current entry has Victoria as Betty and Yvaine as Veronica - surely it's the other way around? It takes most of the story for Tristan to abandon his quest to impress and win over Victoria and realise that he's falling for Yvaine instead. Anyone agree?

Nornagest: Cut —

* Dominic Deegan plays around this trope slightly with Dominc as Archie, emotionally fragile but dependable Luna as Betty, and troubled childhood friend/Heel Face Turn Szark as the Veronica of sorts. Szark never really pursued his unrequited affection of Dominic (the whole "Dominic not being gay" thing might have helped), aside from occasional fantasy of Luna turning evil and Szark rescuing Dominic from her clutches. Neither Luna nor Dominic seem to mind much.

**Another example from the webcomic would be the love triangle between Siegfried (Veronica), Jayden (Archie),and Milov(Betty), which again is a strange variation on the formula, as it was revealed after Siggy was already dead, and led to the breakup of Milov and Jayden's fairly stable relationship, as well as Jayden's temporary Face Heel Turn and Milov's rather more permanent one (although Milov never really became a bad guy, just one that refused to have any more dealings with the main cast).

Seems shoehorned to me. Am I wrong?

Red Viking: You're not wrong. That's definitely a case of someone mistaking a Betty And Veronica Love Triangle for all love triangles.

Took this out because they make no sense:

** Harry gets to choose between the beautiful and popular but fragile and weepy, Cho Chang and the gutsy, tough, persistent, capable, red-headed Ginny Weasley. The First Girl Wins. Heroes Want Red Heads, after all.

Wait, are you implying that Ginny is the Veronica? Or is she the Betty because she's the seemingly unremarkable girl next door he doesn't even notice at first?
Or, Harry chooses between Ginny (Veronica) and Luna Lovegood (a Cloudcuckoolander-flavored Betty), since by the time the infamous "Chest Monster" made the scene, Cho and Harry couldn't look at each other without intense mutual embarassment.
That is to say, if Harry had any such feelings for Luna.

Like it says, Harry had already broken up with Cho for his own reasons when he chose Ginny, and he never had any feelings for Luna at all, so this isn't that trope. Also none of the girls fit the trope...at all.

On the other hand, Ron ditches giggling, fangirly Lavender Brown (Veronica) and chooses sensible bookworm Hermione (Betty).

Veronica is now "giggling and fangirly"? That's stretching the definition a bit, isn't it?

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