Badass Army Discussion - Television Tropes & Idioms

witchdoctor: I just had to remove a comment that Israel was able to survive because God was on their side. I shouldn't have to tell you that comments like that are a Big No. I'd like to just have a nice entry without sparking a holy war, alright?

Random troper: I was cool with it, but, yes, I do see how it would go there.

witchdoctor: So was I, but I'd rather be safe than sorry.

Janitor: Let's not do an edit war, okay? Especially over an image. It is too big and doesn't really illustrate the article. Out of the way on the right makes it easy to slide by and focus in on the article. If that compromise doesn't work, we can do well without it altogether.

witchdoctor: Explain to me how it doesn't illustrate the article? Did you manage to somehow miss the fact that the Space Marine's are the embodiment of this trope?

Janitor: The who? Don't put it in again, dude. Soemthing more iconic, or just let the text do the work.

witchdoctor: You didn't actually read the article, did you? So explain to me the part where you can actually determine whether the picture illustrates the trope?

GodotIsWaiting4U: Janitor, the Space Marines are from Warhammer 40k, and yes, they are absolutely iconic of this trope. An entire army of genetically enhanced 9-foot-tall super soldiers encased in 3-inch thick power armor carrying handheld grenade launchers as pistols and massive chainsaw-swords as close combat weapons. I'd say that's pretty badass. Furthermore, the picture is not obscure, as Warhammer 40k is one of the best-known miniature wargames in existence, and its RTS video game spinoff series Dawn Of War is considered one of the better game series in the RTS genre. About the only real objection to the pic is the size, and some easy photo editing can solve that issue.

Janitor: Okay, cool. I confess I am reacting to somebody calling my moving the picture to the right "stupid" ...

... and then having them later coming out all bratty ...

... and my having a general pissed-off going about how people seem to have some problem understanding that the articles are about the trope, not their fav example ...

... and my having a further pissed-off going about illustrations offered first (on the left, first impression) should illustrate the article, that is, make the article more apparent before reading ...

... has made me even bitchier than usual.

Game Guru GG: Look, Janitor. He thought you were a Wiki Vandal. From what he says in #tropers chat, he understands your position now, and feels sorry about it, so could you perhaps show some mercy to him or at least talk to him about it in the chat? He'd say it himself, but apparently he has been banned.

Of course, now he left the chat.

Janitor: Undid my bannination shit. Apologies all around. Feeling the pressures of doing my RL and going way asymptotic ...

witchdoctor: If it's alright with you I'm going to make the picture a bit smaller and make the WH 40 K example a bit more descriptive so that the relevance of the picture that was on there is a bit clearer. I'll make the changes put it up and we'll go from there.

Janitor: Here is some discussion removed from the article ...

The Nazi Wehrmacht of World War Two, especially after they tore everyone in Europe a new one for a few years.
- Vetoed. They made some spectacular successes, particularly in the East, yes. But the fact remains that they took massive losses in most of their battles (hell, it is now thought likely that they took more casualties in their infamous 1940 offensives than they doled out, and it was only the surrendering Western Allied units that decided the issue). In addition, the Axis Italian and Vichy French armed forces were literally PACKED with these guys, where their performance was often dismal. Hell, by the end of the war, the Wehrmacht's own performance was falling off the face of the Earth, particularity in the West, with a few notable exceptions (Seelowe Hights in particular).
  - This troper doesn't know where you are getting your facts as history says different

witchdoctor: Eliminated the part of the article regarding Israel due to the amount of controversy and edit war caused by it. Recorded here for posterity is the cut portion.

The Israeli Defense Forces, all branches. They're a bit of a special case. Surrounded on all sides by hostile countries, they've managed to defeat their foes every single time. Once, they defeated a coalition of several enemy countries in six freakin' days. However certain factors mitigate their status as a pure Badass Army. They have the considerable advantage of sizeable logistical support from a number of nations, notably the U.S., Britain, France, and others. In fact U.S. aid roughly equates the entire military budget of Egypt. Consider they're one of the few countries with halfway working equipment and a competent military; while the countries they regularly attack barely have functional governments sometimes (Lebanon and Palestine come to mind). Thus they get criticized for an uncomfortable similarity to a boxer beating up a little kid who steps on their feet occasionally. Nevertheless for all the advantages, it would all be for naught, if their army wasn't staffed by extremely competent soldiers.
- The Israelis didn't always have that many advantages either and those they have now they obtained by wits and willpower. And similar "mitigations" could be ascribed to many a Badass Army mentioned here. I really don't think anyone wants this to sound like a claim that only gentiles get to have Badass Armies?
- So now it takes wits and willpower to have the U.S., Britain, and France fund your army? Israel is the most powerful nation in its direct region mostly because it has more firepower than the surrounding countries. When your neighbors are Palestine, which barely has a functioning army, and Lebanon, which is so politically volatile it sometimes seems to have two governments at once, the fact you've come out on top is not as incredible as it might otherwise have been.
- The US didn't always fund them except through private contributions, Britain certainly did not always do so, was once their enemy and actually organized their opponents armies originally and France only did so intermittently. In the '48 they were making bullets out of lipstick tubes. In the meantime Jordan, Egypt, and Syria do not have volatile governments, and do not have armies any more incompetent then most of the ones the Wehrmacht faced in the early part of the war. And Saudi Arabia, kind of you know, has lots of oil. And there are about a hundred million Moslems-the only reason they didn't have an overwhelming number of Reserves is because they weren't ready to pay the price. Now please don't go on about this. If you are a Westerner, it makes you sound ungenerous to others. And if you are an Arab it certainly doesn't give you much credit given historical circumstances.
- And like I said, most of the objections would apply to other armies mentioned here so it is absurd to single them out. They have done remarkably well and are generally respected by people from other Badass Armies

The Starship Maxima: Put back the Israel section. They legitimately belong on this list. And jason taylor was absolutely right. Whatever your political feeling on Israel the fact is that they regularly defeat their foes at almost clockwork intervals. And as he pointed out, EVERY Badass Army has some advantage that allows it to be Bad Ass, no military is just Bad Ass based on straight balls alone; thought that is a very necessary component.

I feel that the section got out of hand due to people feeling as if they have to apologize for Israel's military success. Nobody's saying the country is morally right all the time, or that their *** don't stink. But the fact is their army can whoop ass when needed.

witchdoctor: I'm not entirely convinced that the section on Israel absolutely needs to be in there. I'm of the opinion that the article would be better served by removing the Israel section so that we don't end up having an ongoing edit war until the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse come riding by and tell us to STFU and die already.

Random troper: @Witchdoctor - By that logic; none of the examples on the page "absolutely needs to be in there." Bottom line, we're discussins real life badass armies. Israel has one. The End.

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