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This is an "It Just Bugs Me" entry. This area of the wiki is more friendly to the idea of conversation in the article itself, due to the highly subjective content. The regular entry on this topic is in the main wiki.
Twilight
  • How come every anti-fan I know believes those ridiculous reports of Twilight fan violence from that anti-Twilight forum? Throwing acid in someone's unprotected face in a high school lab? Male gangsters admitting to liking the books, let alone assaulting girls for it? The poor victim and their awesome witty comebacks that leave everyone in awe? And no proof or articles or police reports on any of these stories? The media has no loyalty to Twilight, if any of these were true the news would have a field day. Come on, guys you should know better...
    • How come every fan I know believes the ridiculous reports of anti-fan violence? Let's be honest; probably none of the "attacks" from either side ever happened, and it's not just antis being silly.
      • See the Twihards making up stories is something I'd expect, but the antis are supposed to be the smart, sane ones who hold themselves to a higher standard. It weakens their argument when they use fake evidence because then the argument gets derailed into "You lied about getting acid thrown in your face, therefore everything you say is false." This also goes for every time an unreliable source has a rumor about somebody suing Meyer and all the antis shout "HAHAHA I TOLD YOU SO!" and start pasting it all over the wiki until five minutes later when the story turns out to false or the case is so flimsy it gets thrown out right away. That's happened at least three times so far.
      • And then there's the antis who only pay attention to the news articles such as the 3,000 Twilight mob in San Fransisco where a fan broke her nose and the police got involved to cancel the event, the various complaints from Robert Pattinson of fans harassing him (as can be seen in clips of him trying to get away on Youtube), and of course the personal attacks that some antis just don't want to share because they try to forget the stupidity of some people.
  • I have two three main gripes. (*deep breath*) Here goes:
    • What this series is doing to unpublished authors. Seriously, there are writers who are scared to submit anything with depth for publication because they think no one will give it a second glance before tossing it onto the rejection pile in favor of craptacular fluff like Twilight. That's not right!
    • Smeyer's rank attitude regarding other authors and their work. I can't provide direct linkage to the interview itself, but Melina Pendulum on You Tube read some of Meyer's own comments from said interview and it basically boiled down to her saying that she feels her work is on par with (or better than!) that of Jane Austen's, she has no idea the Princess Bride was supposed to be a satire (and therefore had no problem saying that her romance was a far superior one) and a bunch of other crap I can't even get into here without seeing red. Don't believe me? See for yourself.
      • She also considers her books superior to Harry Potter, which is hilarious since the first HP book made more money in less time than Twilight, as did it's first movie. We won't get into how much better HP is, writing-wise. Then, of course, The Tales of Beedle the Bard (a supplementary, semi-related book) beat out Breaking Dawn (the climax of the series) on Amazon with no fanfare or previous advertisment. Compare this to how much we had to swallow in ads for Breaking Dawn.
    • The fact that Smeyer contradicts her own shit on a daily basis (Edward can't read Bella's mind, yet he later on sends her telepathic messages to keep her out of danger), seems to think research and basic US history is beneath her (two words: Great Depression) and the fans keep buying it!
      • While I'm not trying to defend S Meyer, and actually agree with pretty much all you mentioned, I do remember reading that the "telepathic messages" aren't messages at all, but it's just Bella's mind/survival instinct pretty much making her have hallucinations; it's all in her mind. Which, in my opinion, makes it worse. I might be wrong, though, given it has been quite a time since I read it...
      • Yes, I believe the voice Bella heard whenever she intentionally put herself in mortal danger during New Moon was in fact a product of her own imagination/diseased psyche. It's never really clarified whether she's fully aware that these 'messages' are springing wholly from her unconscious mind. I can only assume that she was simply imagining what Edward might say if he could somehow see her, and that Stephanie Meyer, in a misguided attempt to create some kind of dramatic effect, accidentally made it sound far too literal. Surely if Bella had literally been hearing voices she would have sought some kind of professional help?! One would hope. Still, that nasty bout of mental instability cleared up pretty soon after Sir Sparklecakes arrived back on the scene, so no harm done. Sigh.
  • Edward drives. While sparkling.
  • Bella gets a little papercut and everyone's all over her. What about her periods? What about everyone's periods at school? Or is menstrual blood not that attractive to perfectly perfect vampires?
    • Actually, yes. It's, ahem, dead blood.
    • That wonderful 'dead blood' explanation aside...what would happen if, say, someone accidentally grazed their knee and drew blood during gym class? Or nicked their finger with a scalpel during a biology exercise? Or picked a freaking scab on their arm out of boredom? Or got a nosebleed? Little injuries happen all the time. And yet the Cullens react to Bella's papercut as if it's the dawning of the Apocalypse. As if they haven't had to deal with similar situations on a daily basis for however many decades they've been pointlessly repeating high-school.
      • Oh but you forgot that Mary Sue's blood is more delicious than one of any other puny human.
  • The fact that I wasn't allowed to make up my own damn mind about the series! I didn't read it when it first came out (that's pretty much the case with everything I read; I get around to it when the hype calms down), but rabid fans and rabid antis made it so that I could never read it, what with both sides spoiling huge chunks of plot in attempts to either get me on board or steer me away from Twilight. Regardless, I read it, just to get both sides off my ass and didn't like it anyway, so it's whatever.
  • Charlie's response to Jacob's sexual assualt of Bella. It just seemed so out of character - he's A: a policeman,and B: a really overprotective dad. So when his daughter comes home and tells him that a guy kissed her when she definitely didn't want him to, his response is just so very, very disturbing.
    • He still sees Jacob as the nice kid he was before the whole love triangle nonsense. I guess he assumed it was a quick innocent kiss and then he backed off and Bella was "overreacting" or "playing hard to get"? (I would have still wrung the kid's neck) Or maybe he's genre savvy, and realizes it was just a ploy for the author to make Edward look better by giving him a more apropriate proper reaction. (And this was one case where Edward was right. He stressed that his anger was about Bella's consent, not about jealousy or protecting his property.)
  • It also bugs me the wide amount of Sephenie Meyers in this article. It is Stephenie Meyer people.
    • Five seconds in Word and that's fixed.
  • He smiled his crooked smile.
    • Sues have to have at least one seeming imperfection.
    • I thought it meant a smile like, for example, when you're trying to look firm but end up smiling anyway? And it's not a real imperfection. Bella loves it.
  • Is anyone else freaked out that any girl who is 25 or under has about a 90% of having a vampire fetish?
    • That's not a morbid as it sounds. Vampires can symbolize the subversive quality of femate sexuality. In America, the Nice Girls Don't ethos is still very much in control. A vampire is the farthest thing from a Nice Girl imanginable. So it's not uncommon for young women who are discovering their sexuality to imagine leaving the daytime world of Nice Girls behind forever and becoming a powerful, protean creature of the night. When I was between 18 and 20, I was wild about vampires. But I felt—and still do—that vampires who can't turn into bats are just lame.
On the other hand, maybe the real attraction of the fetish is the idea of a boyfried who doesn't fart, sweat, or go the the bathroom.
  • Heh never had that stage of my life, I always had my nerd fetish but I also thin that the fetish is fueled by the imposibly beautyful/sexy actors that portray them I mean even Bela Lugosi had a lot of women drooling over him after Dracula. If there were average looking vampires the fetish might had been totally diferent.
  • I really can't be the only Washingtonian troper here. Why does the whole "rainiest city in the US here" thing give her an excuse to defile the state, when she doesn't even know anything about it? She never even set foot in it until around 2006.
    • You're not, and I have a whole laundry list of things she did to the Olympic Peninsula in particular that drive me mad. In short, the wildlife (dear God, the wildlife), the butchering of the Quileute mythology and tribe in general, and the idea that OVERCAST somehow equals PERPETUAL TWILIGHT. WTF. I realize that to people living in Arizona, Washington might as well be Alaska, and that she might not have been able to afford a trip up here, but jeeze, do a little research so you don't so obviously fail geography forever. Oh, and saying Seattle was within such a relatively short driving distance of the Peninsula, and...yeah. So. Much. Irritation.
  • In Eclipse, Edward is signing Bella up for colleges and whatnot, moving to different places... the works. Alaska is discussed because Bella got accepted to a university there. He mentions being able to eat the following with the Sparkletons: grizzly bears, polar bears, and wolves. Immediately Bella takes offense... for the wolves, thinking it was a jab against Jacob. Nevermind the polar bears. UM, HELLO? POLAR BEARS ARE ENDANGERED SPECIES? WTF IS THIS I DON'T EVEN--
    • Polar bears are not endangered, they are classified as vulnerable. Also, polar bears are still being hunted by the Inuit of Northern Canada and Alaska and by regulated hunters (to the tune of about 500 a year in Canada). Considering how highly the Cullens value law and order, they probably signs on to hunting licenses (And its not as if the Cullens will be snacking their way through a thousand bears). Complaining does not precludes you from doing research too, you know.
    • 'Kay, how about Emmett's habit of munchin' grizzlies, which ARE endangered?
      • Considering he was all but mauled to death by bears, I don't think he cares.
  • I've discovered that going up to a Twihard and saying "Your book sucks and you're an idiot!" will probably just make them defensive and possibly throw acid in your face. In my experience, it's easier to reach them through humor that points out the flaws of the work in a non-mean spirited way. You may not get them to say Twilight is horrible, but if you can get them to laugh with you, you can get them to admit "Lol, Edward is kind of creepy sometimes" etc. My friend was once a true Twilight fan who converted to LO Lfan after being exposed to Growing Up Cullen and Cleolinda's recaps/Secret Life of Dolls. I have another friend who is anti-Twilight, and hatred for the books has consumed his entire life. Every facebook post is about how much he hates them, but none of it's humorous and his rage is so great that he's incapable of enjoying even the most brutal Twilight satire. He talks about Twilight more than anyone I know, including thirteen year olds and fangirls! It may be righteous anger, but is it healthy?
    • I was never so happy until after I converted my sister by pointing out the lulz.
    • Seems like this is true for anything that has a following (fiction, government, religion, what have you). Shame more people can't agree.
  • In a scene in New Moon where Charlie cracks a joke about Bella spending time with Jacob and what her friends would think about it, Bella thinks something along the lines of, "As if I care about what my friends thought." This troper didn't even know what to do about it, so she posted it on TV Tropes instead.
    • Bella.... has some Libby-ish comments about the people around her- that this, the ones she's not fawning over. She refers to Mike as like a Golden Retriever and pretty much dismisses anyone she doesn't see as physically attractive.
      • Her first thoughts of Eric mention his greasy hair and acne problem, while he's trying to be friendly.
      • This troper is more concerned she doesn't care what her friends, who sincerely want the best for her, think about her poor choices. You don't have to listen to people who are prejudiced, but if they had had a valid reason for concern, would Bella have still reacted the same? I'd bet my non-existent left nut she would.
  • Come on haters, why can't you just let the people enjoy whatever stupid shit they want? Is, say, owning a 100+ Star Wars-books any less stupid?
    • They're equally stupid, so shut up.
      • Correction: they're almost as stupid. At least Jedi don't sparkle.
      • Oi, play nice!
      • The real stupidity is thinking there are 100 star wars books when they're only up to the forties! If only we could be so lucky to have 100!
      • ahum
    • You know, I think Buffy is stupid, and her fanboys are morons. Still, I respect other people's freedom to like it. Why can't it be the same with this?
      • I think it's because of the fanbase. Buffy is ubiquitous on this wiki, sure, but you're unlikely to hear about it much elsewhere. Twilight, on the other hand, is freaking everywhere, and the fans won't shut up about it. It's also because Twilight seems to be emblematic of a lot of the problems with modern society: sexism, obsession with appearance over personality, etc.
      • Saying both "Buffy fanboys are morons, but I respect people's freedom to like Buffy," is somewhat of a paradoxical statement, dude.
      • I didn't say "Buffy fanboys are morons" I said " I think Buffy fanboys are morons". Respecting them doesn't change my opinion of them, just like you guys can be friends with people who like Twilight and still have a negative opinion of the series.
      • Um, yeah, I don't think my Twilight fan friends are morons. I think they're both pretty smart, actually. They have a different opinion of the book than I do, it doesn't mean I reckon they're dumb.
      • Actually all the people who I know who've read Twilight were/are honors students with close to 4.0 GP As. I call them unrealistic rather than stupid because it's easier to swallow.
      • I'd say Twilight is popular BECAUSE it's rather dumb and frivolous at heart. Both people of average intelligence and smart people like it because it's something you can mentally shut down for, because it's pure kitsch. It's the same reason for why stuff like Disney or One Piece are so wildly popular in their native countries, even if the demagraphics are different. People consume that kind of fiction because everyone knows they'll deliver what they promise: happy endings and brainless fun along the way. It sounds kina cynical, but it's true. The average consumer doesn't pay for serious art; the average consumer pays for what they know will turn out for the best and make them feel happy before it's time to return to the hard realities of work, bad friends, and paying bills.
      • Please refrain from comparing Twilight to One Piece. For one thing, Oda actually pays attention to continuity.
    • I don't read Star Wars books, but if they're any good, then yes, owning them is less stupid.
      • They're not that great and it's not like they'll ever win an award, but they have a solid and coherent plot (usually) and the writers are at least decent.
    • Being obsessed with any fandom to the point of insanity is stupid but that doesn't mean I can't be just as obsessive as an anti-fan.
    • If you actually want an explanation, a great deal of the hate stems from how the series glorifies a relationship that's unhealthy on all kinds of levels, yet it's so intensely popular that its fans (or a scary portion of them, at least) fall in line and cite it as a vision of perfection. The Star Wars novels may be varying levels of kitsch — I've only read a few so far, so I can't say — but they don't provide a parade of warped morals that its fans take to heart.
    • That's one of the two things that confuse me—what Aesop? Stalking Is Love? All Girls Want Bad Boys? Those aren't Meyer's messages, they're Bella's , and if Jacob's comments are any indication, Bella's supposed to be a Martyr Without A Cause. The other thing that confuses me: the Star Wars novels do provide a parade of Warped Aesops, and a few authors, such as David Brin, have argued that the Star Wars movies themselves are built upon Warped Aesops. For that matter, Chronicles Of Blood And Stone is worse than both, both literarily and in its messages, as completely and unambiguously as such a statement can be given that such judgments can't be objective. Yet Twilight and Sword Of Truth get more hate per mention than the aforementioned chronicles or the most obviously foul of the tie-in novels, even factoring out the illusions that may come from the fact that Twilight and Sword Of Truth are mentioned more often. Why must they have a monopoly on So Bad Its Horrible, particularly when each has significant good traits?
      • In response to your first point: Bella is a pretty clear self-insert of Smeyer. I don't read Star Wars books myself so can't comment on the rest, but as someone mentioned above Twiligt is everywhere, and frequently held up to be a "How To" guide on romance by silly bints who obviously don't know better. Star Wars, outside the nerdosphere, isn't really brought up and when it is, it isn't treated seriously by most.
  • Why'd Meyer take out the scene that was supposed to demonstrate Bella's clumsiness? Was she trying to create a Mary Sue?(link)
    • There's another very similar gym class scene in the book describing Bella's ineptitude at volleyball instead of badminton. That scene does the trick just as well.
  • This troper summarized Twilight to her Dad, including how Edward destroys Bella's car so she can't visit her friends, sneaks into her room to watch her sleep before she even knew she liked him, constantly calls her stupid, wants to drink her blood, etc. She also mentioned how Bella considers Edward's behavior "perfect", and how hordes of fangirls seem to agree. Dad's reaction: "So women really do like to be abused by men, after all." That's EXACTLY what he said, it wasn't a joke, and I didn't paraphrase. This troper liked neither Twilight nor her Dad before this conversation, but is it any wonder now that Twilight has so many haters and critics? It's one thing to have a book be read as a guilty pleasure, because this troper doesn't approve of censorship and there have been books (and porn) with worse, but now you have critics in top magazines calling Twilight a "literary masterpiece", and Twilight definitely doesn't deserve that status. Is there any wonder that so many of us sensible readers are agitated?
    • Sadly your dad is right. There are some women who think abuse is fun and it's really troubling. One of my friends actually stayed with a boyfriend she hated for an additional three months because he got a sexual thrill whenever they hit each other.
      • Some men too, but that's not a point. My dad talked as if all women are codependent. Plus, there's a difference between sexual fetishes and complete and absolute emotional dependence. Bella forgives everything Edward does because she feels she'll die without him, but their romance is still treated as "healthy" and "perfect". Where's the literary masterpice in that?
    • Just ask yourself whether or not it's going to stand the test of time. Trust me, one day it's going to be Deader Than Disco.
      • Seconded. I'm mortified that anyone would claim it's a masterpiece because frankly, I've read webcomics that have more depth and meaning than Twilight and no ones going to call these webcomics Literary Masterpieces.
      • I know this isn't The Other Wiki, but I'd really like to see a link to those critics. I just can't believe professional critics would be that stupid until I see it for myself.
  • What, exactly, is the point of Marcus? I get that Aro is the dangerously obsessive one, and Caius is the dangerously bloodthirsty one, but what is Marcus? The dangerously boring one?
    • Word Of God says "Once upon a time, a fairly young vampire (he had only been a vampire for a decade and a half) named Aro changed his young sister Didyme, who had just reached adulthood, into a vampire in order to add her to his growing coven. Aro always wanted power, and because he himself had a potent mind-reading gift, he hoped his biological sister would also be gifted in a way that would help him rise in the vampire world. It turned out that Didyme did have a gift; she carried with her an aura of happiness that affected everyone who came near her. Though it wasn't exactly what he had hoped for, Aro pondered the best ways he could use this gift. Meanwhile, Aro's most trusted partner, Marcus, fell in love with Didyme. This was not unusual; given the way she made people feel, lots of people fell in love with Didyme. The difference was that this time, Didyme fell in love herself. The two of them were tremendously happy. So happy, in fact that, after a while, they no longer cared that much about Aro's plans for domination. After a few centuries, Didyme and Marcus discussed going their own way. Of course, Aro was well aware of their intentions. He was not happy about it, but he pretended to give his blessing. Then he waited for an opportunity to act, and when he knew he would never be found out, he murdered his sister. After all, Marcus's gift was much more useful to him than hers had been. This is not to say that Aro did not truly love his sister; it's just that a key part of his personality is the ability to destroy even what he loves in order to further his ambitions. Marcus never found out that Aro was responsible for Didyme's death. He became an empty man. Aro used Chelsea's gift to keep Marcus loyal to the Volturi, though not even Chelsea's gift could make Marcus show any enthusiasm for it." (link)
      • Wow. That is way more interesting than Bella and Edward's sappy relationship.
      • Seriously. I want to read a book about that.
      • Knowing Meyer, she would probably spend a couple hundred pages going on about how much Marcus and Didyme love each other and how everyone who comes in contact with her loves Didyme and wangsts about not being able to have her.
      • Yes, but at least Didyme has an in-character excuse. Bella is the kind of girl you only find attractive due to her helplessness and proclivity for getting hurt. You wanna protect her. Or put her in a rubber ball with no air.
      • Which is a moot point since she's been turned, so what is her drawn now?
      • You're right — I would rather read a fanfic about that. (Although... are there any good writers in the Twilight fandom?)
      • Here you go!
      • That is an interesting story.
      • DIDYME?!?
  • Sparkly vampires. Sparkly vampires. What the hell?
    • Our Vampires Are Different.
      • Your Vampires Suck... Also, the first book was based on a dream Meyer had about a mortal girl (her?) talking to a sparkling vampire in a field of flowers. So, there you go.
    • Seriously. The Unreveal if there ever was one. I (grudgingly) saw the movie with some friends. After an hour of nothing, Ed says that she has to see what he looks like in the sun. I was thinking maybe Van Helsing-style vampires, and...he sparkles. *facepalm*
      • Bella is Meyer only younger, slimmer, enhanced figure, more alluring face, better complexion, etc. Don't believe me? Read the passages describing Bella. Look at the girl they cast as Bella and look at a picture of Meyer. Ask yourself why they look so alike.
      • To be honest, the way they depicted the sparkling in the movie bugged me a lot more then the actual sparkling. Aren't they supposed to be like that because they're made out of sparkly rock or something? Wouldn't it make a lot more sense to have Bella look at Edward and be near-blinded by a bright shine? Not to mention make slightly more sense to why they stick to the shadows!
    • And why do they sparkle only in direct sunlight? I mean, yeah, it would be more noticeable, then... but they should sparkle at least a little in indirect sunlight or in artificial light.
      • Sparkly vampires can be summed up with an old, old aphorism: You can't polish a turd ... but you can roll it in glitter.
      • Mythbusters proved you CAN polish a turd. Still doesn't make this series any better though.
  • When Carlisle was trying to kill himself, why didn't he think of setting himself on fire?
    • Maybe he was too busy trying to stab himself with a stake? Or the garlic/sunlight/holy water deal?
    • Carlisle has a very scientific mind, and I'm willing to bet it just didn't occur to him. Death by fire is not a traditional method of killing a vampire (such as garlic/stakes/etc), nor is it a way that most people would think of if they were trying to kill themselves (such as starvation).
    • Death by fire is a common way to kill vampires in certain areas. Unfortunately, immolation hurts a lot if you don't die from it. He probably went through all the non-forever-painful ways to kill yourself and realized animal blood worked before he got to fire. Carlisle was also a Christian (who still believed he had a soul and a chance at Heaven) living in a time where a dead body had to be whole to get to Heaven. Dismemberment followed by immolation would be the last option he would chose.
      • "If all else fails, use fire"?
  • ....Renesmee?!
    • Oh, and I suppose "Hermione", "Luna", "Nymphadora", "Minerva" and "Bellatrix" are common, regular, every day names, right?
      • 'Hermione' is from Greek mythology, 'Luna' is from the Latin for the moon, 'Minerva' is from Greco-Roman mythology and 'Bellatrix' is a constellation (also rooted in Greco-Roman mythology). 'Nymphadora' is a bit weird, but also has its roots on Greek mythology ('nymph') and could be thought of as 'gift of the nymphs'. None of them sound as totally weird as 'Renesmee' to me.
      • Renesmee doesn't have any parallel that I can think of. Luna while weird is there for the Loony joke. And Bellatrix always sounded like a description of her personality as much as a name. Renesmee? I don't know what to do about that.
      • Luna is pretty if unusual, Hermione is alright, Minerva is alright if old-fashioned, Nymphadora being a crappy name is canon and mined for comedy value, and Bellatrix sounds like a goth stripper, but that kind of fits for the character.
      • Many of the Blacks are named after constellations (for tradition, I suppose).
      • Harry potter takes place in a world markedly different from the human world. It's accepted and approved to give your kids old, meaningful, or even stupid names. Good old Bella lives in the human world and should know better.
    • It sounds like she was was trying to come up with a name that just sounded exotic, but tried to hard and came up with a name that sort of sounds like a type of cheese. I would make a joke involving what kind of wine goes with that or something, but everything I could think of just sounded way too much like a double entendre for me to be comfortable typing it.
    • Seriously, what is WITH the stupid names that kids get stuck with nowadays? At least Too bad the spawnling won't be going to elementary school, where That Name will be mocked on a regular basis.
    • It's a Mormon thing, apparently.
    • Two points about "Minerva": first off, the owner of that name is very much a 'traditional' type, and strict, so, she needed a strict sounding name. Secondly, Minerva is also the name of part of a very famous cartoon couple. You might know her as Minnie, but her real name is Minerva Mouse.
      • The author claims she just wanted a really really SPECIAL SNOWFLAKE name. *eye-roll*
      • This (Mormon) troper has never even heard of that tradition. Strong wtf moment.
      • Just Mormon or LDS in Utah Mormon? This troper joined for a while, but after dating a Utah Mormon had trouble with the vast cultural differences. I've met people there who named kids after the first and middle names on tombstones and a tendency to be very punny. Rusty Steele. Jade and Amber Stone. Louis Keyes. Etc. Could be worse, I never met any Thou-shall-not-commit-adultery Smiths in any of the trips.
      • According to this article, it's a young-parent thing.
    • I have nothing against parents coining completely original names so their child can have a unique one. But if you're going to do that, make it sound nice. "Renesmee" sounds idiotic.
    • This troper, having just recently finished the series (for science!) can answer that: It's a smooshing together of her mom-pire Esme and her real but not-nearly-vampire-enough mother Renee's names (for the record, Renesmee's middle name is Carlie, a smooshing together of her dad-pire Carlisle and her <repeat description of mother here> dad Charlie). It was, also, a last minute name because she was sure she would have a boy and name him "Edward Jacob Cullen". Knowing this has made him be less bugged about it, but he still thinks it's a stupid name.
      • It's better than 'Albus Severus'.
      • At least "Albus Severus" can and does use "Al" instead. "Nessie" is arguably worse than "Renesmee".
      • Granted, the kid was named after someone else, and the original was born in the late 1800s. Sure, the name's goofy by our modern standards, but back then? Maybe not so much.
      • Idea for a fanfiction: Renesmee gets turned into the sparkly monster of Loch Ness. Someone get on this. NOW.
      • "Carlie" sounds normal enough, why not make that her first name and keep "Renesmee" as an Embarassing Middle Name? Get some Added Alliterative Appeal out of it as well.
    • I keep misreading it as "Rename Me!"
      • Wonder if thats what the kid would think if she finally understands her name when she's older. Renesmee...RENAME ME!
    • To be fair, I think it's nice but it is the kind of name you see for a perfect Mary Sue whose author can't decide which spelling of Ebony Stacy Greenleaf Dementia Hermione Lordington to use.
    • At the risk of uttering a heresy, I think the name SOUNDS quite pleasant when spoke aloud, the spelling is odd but within reason (a diacritical mark to indicate stress would have been nice), but it's the fact that the name was created by squishing two people's name together that disgusted most people by it's sheer tackiness/cheesiness value.
    • Though not the type to defend these books...this troper must agree that it sounds nice (although it did bother her that SMeyer kept the ee but got rid of the accent), and that it means reborn and loved, which is a sensible name for a vampire offspring. It also is a fair representation of her parents by the theme the books meant to convey, given that Bella's rebirth and Bella/Edward's love are the main points.
    • Finally, Word Of God says that she would never name a child such a weird name, and thinks nobody should ever name their child such a weird name. What she writes on her webside is often strangely sane.
  • These books have A LOT of flaws and I'm not denying there's some bad messages, but why is it that everyone focuses on Bella's "teenage" pregnancy? She has unlimited time and money, and her kid will be legal in only seven years. She can go to whatever college she wants, any time she wants, as many times as she wants, as all of the other Cullens have done.
    • For that matter, Bella herself was legal and married to the kid's father before she got pregnant. I'm not even sure you can say that she wasn't physically mature enough to safely have a baby. She was within a month of her nineteenth birthday, and the fact that she almost managed to survive carrying the Mary-Sue baby to term seems to me like pretty good evidence that her body would have done just fine with a normal pregnancy.
      • Y'know, in context, Mary-Sue isn't nearly so good a perjorative as spine-shattering little demon.
      • FOUNTAIN OF BLOOD! Those are the most disturbing words I have ever read in my LIFE! And I have read about a man dying from a large piece of shrapnel stuck in his chest from a landmine explosion!
    • I've seen a few variants of that complaint where the issue is that she never appeared to have any other plans, ever. She didn't think about what career she'd like, she didn't mention what course she would like to take at college, she didn't even appear to have any interests except for classic literature to show how INTELLIGENT and MATURE she was.
      • Bella says that Edward wants her to go to college, not her. She mentions as well that she feels out of sync with humanity, never thought of what to do with her life, and Edward became her life when they met. My beef is NOT that she wants to be a housewife and mother. My problem is she has no actual talents or goals other than these. She is literally a baby factory and arm candy. The only things we're told she likes she never does unless it's absolutely integral to the plot. For instance, when she reads in the first book and falls asleep on the lawn, it's a plot point so she can have UBER SPESHUL dreams and Edward can watch her. Otherwise she has nothing that she does or says which makes her unique.
      • I think that was the point: Bella's life was just waaaay average to show that even the ugly, lack of drive and future girl can get the man of their dreams. Adorable loser winning in the end badly written. Also I think is kind of implied that this was Bella's destiny so of course she was absolutely terrible in her human form.
    • To this Troper, the problem wasn't the fact that she was pregnant more than the fact that it let loose another example of her utter lack of ambition without Edward. When she first realizes she's going to have a baby, one of her first thoughts is that she hadn't liked babies or wanted to be a mother before this but suddenly realized she was happy to have Edward's baby. If she had always wanted a baby or if she still didn't want one but decided to try to deal with it as best she could it might have seemed better but she just suddenly turns on her view in an instant which is kind of unrealistic and probably isn't a good indicator of being prepared for child care (not that she ended up needing that, ugh).
      • Well the unrealistic part I disagree since it had been used before with other caracters that never wanted a baby and the moment they get pregnant they just want to be mothers, is just with a better writer it would had taken her more than three seconds to accept it. And on her defense she carried the pregnancy against Edward's wishes so at least it was not just Edward making a choice for her...yet again.
  • Why in God's name would a vampire want to go through high school over and over again?
    • Uh, he just wants to be normal?
    • He's a masochist. It's also why he married a girl who has gone to the emergency room so many times that her home should be investigated for child abuse.
      • It's not so much about enduring high school as it is about enduring high school girls. Because frankly, it's been less than a decade since I graduated, and I can't think of any non-perverse reason to hang around with fifteen- and sixteen-year-old girls. Our interests, points of reference, and maturity levels are so wildly out of sync that relating to each other would be a bit of a challenge. You'd think with a century-plus of life under the old belt, the disparity would be even more pronounced.
      • That would make sense, except for the fact that none of the Cullens show any sort of interest in school or their fellow students whatsoever—in fact, in Midnight Sun Edward goes on about how horribly mind-numbing school is. If they repeated school because maybe they liked the structure and having something to do on a daily basis (this was my personal theory for a while, because come on, after several centuries you'd probably get bored) or actually enjoyed meeting new people and forming friendships outside of their species, I could except this plot device. However, the bottom line is, the Cullens are there merely to move the plot along. Had they not been there, Bella would have never met Edward and the world would have never been spared the atrocity that is Twilight, because for some reason it never crossed Meyer's mind that maybe the Cullen kids could say they were, oh I dunno, home schooled or something.
      • That's it, Meyer probably just didn't realize that the Cullens could have been home-schooled. Or Carlisle insisted that the Cullens be part of the community.
      • I think that the reason is that a clan of pretty looking people living isolated, home schooled and on total secrecy would be far more attention grabing that just a group of rich snobs going to HS. In Midnight Sun you see that even if HS is horribly boring they needed Edward to check the thoughs of people to know when it was time to move if any of them came to the realization of what they were. And one of the ways that Edward used to help him to resist killing Bella was to get used to her scent so I'm guessing having the "vegetarians" away from human flesh for too long would just make things worst if they happened to run into one on a dark alley.
    • Also, why did nobody notice Ed was there for a wee bit too long? Well, Domination or other hypnosis tricks look like a good way to explain it, but why the hell even bother in the first place?
      • He went to multiple high schools, graduated from multiple colleges, (maybe tried a few careers), and then started over somewhere else.
    • The younger they start out in one place, the longer they can stay there. Carlisle is all about playing happy families, and part of his playing happy families is to live in one place for as long as he can.
    • Intellectual curiosity? Edward, for example, would have graduated high school in, what, 1919? In the interim 90 years, new literature has been written/discovered, science has soldiered onward, education is approached in entirely different ways, etc. If they want to go to university, it's still probably a prerequisite. If you want to get a science degree in this day and age, you can't be under the impression that we're still believe in the plum pudding model.
    • Plot-driving out of the story and who knows within. If Edward's so very, very bored with human teenagers—as he makes so clear in Midnight Sun, with constantly harping on how humans are all mindless, petty drones (except for mentally-impaired Mary Sues—, he must be a masochist or really dense to spend over seventy years listening to them. As mentioned above, it's not like any of them try to make friends or experience the world, either. Yes, humans can tell they're dangerous (except mentally-impaired Mary Sues) but you can't tell me in the entirety of their time as vampires not one other person wanted to be friends just to be friends. Not one other person could look past their instincts and try to be nice? Not one time did Alice or Emmet see some kid they thought was cool and wanted to hang with? I call bull. I do agree it's possible Carlisle persuaded them, but even he'd have to see the futility of sending a bunch of perfect, genius, ages-older vampires to mingle with human kids. What did he expect to happen?
  • How the fuck did Edward Sparklepants go 108 years without even a single sexual thought until Bella showed up? Vampire or no, he was turned when he was seventeen — If he's really "never felt anything but a mother's love before," by that age, he's either neutered or named Oedipus Rex.
    • It is established that Edward can't achieve an orgasm without him sucking the blood of his intended laid. That's why he represses all sexual impulses: because he is a "vegetarian", a vampire with a soul. Like Angel.
      • And that explains years 13-17 how? Sexual revolution or no sexual revolution, there's a four year span where he would have been a hormonal, human teenager going through puberty who I will presume has seen at least one girl outside of his immediate family. Am I supposed to honestly believe that no girl set his fireworks off in any, and that Bella's magical super speshul fresco fressia scent is SO GLORIOUS AND MAGICAL that it can not only instantly turn on 108-year-old, sexually-repressed vampires, but also 108-year old, asexual vampires as well?
      • It's called plot. A talented writer would realize the problem with this and try to deal accordingly. Ms. Meyer instead decides to write about her perfect fantasy of a man who somehow never even had thoughts in that general direction for a hundred years. Which is so incredibly blind to facts that it qualifies as her thinking that her readers are idiots.
      • Angel still gets sexually aroused, also. And has sex, very occasionally.
    • He channeled his sexual energy into picking up lots of hobbies and arguing with Emmett.
    • He also admits that he doesn't remember a lot of his human life. He could have had a lot of sexual thoughts and just didn't spend any time remembering them when he became a vampire. When most of the human memories went away so did the sexual ones. Once he became a vampire, he would have been able to hear any woman's thoughts first. Hearing disturbing sexual fantasies involving yourself by women that you find unattractive because you know they are stupid or vain or greedy would turn most people off sex.
      • Still, he could have seen plenty of women who didn't see him and thought they were attractive. Fuck, he's the perfect rapist if he wanted to be: inhumanly strong, fast, agile, and can hide in shadows. Even if he's too good to do it, I can't believe he's never even thought of kissing a women, let alone actually sleeping with any.
  • Apparently Meyer thinks being a vampire means you see the world through a curtain of purple prose so thick that freaking Eragon would get tired of all the poetry these blood-suckers see the world in. Not to mention, Bella's reaction to Jacob's imprinting was utterly uncalled for. I guess being one of the beautiful people means you get to be obsessive, possessive and just plain bitchy whenever you want.
    • I thought of the being angry at imprinting business as them being protective parents. Parents, especially when the baby's first born, are generally very protective and want to spend most of their time with their new kid. I think it's understandable that they're mad at Jacob for stealing all their time with their kid. Also, the implications of imprinting are pretty disgusting to think about, especially when it comes to your own child. I wouldn't want someone coming up to me when I have a baby and tell me that they love my kid so much that they want to marry her when she grows up and spend all the time between with her.
      • I completely agree. If one of my friends came up to me and told me they were in love with my infant daughter, I would be pissed off too. Yeah, I know she's super-fast developed or whatever, but this dude is still basically staking a claim on my kid, and chronologically, she's still a baby. It's creepy as Hell.
  • This isn't so much Twilight as it is Stephenie Meyer and her huge fit over the leak of Midnight Sun. I can understand why she wouldn't want people to read a rough draft, or if it was brand new book and a HUGE chunk of plot was spoiled...but we all now what will happen in this one..RIGHT DOWN TO THE THINGS THEY SAY. It just bugs me that Stephenie Meyer wants to be coddled by all her fans...
    • If you ask me, she wanted Twilight to be back in the news. You'll notice that the part released cut right before the meadow, the most anticipated part of the book. Everyone was waiting for Edward's opinion of the meadow scene or anything afterward.
    • I'm glad she has stopped writing it. Maybe she'll write a book centered around the Volturi. Or Bree. Or the Quilete tribe. Or the Amazon Coven. Or Carlisle. Basically, anyone but Edward or Renesmee.
      • I don't think she would write a book about Carlisle. She said on the subject that it would involve so much research and she's lazy.
      • She said she was too lazy? What an awesome way to disappoint Carlisle fans...
    • I don't even like Twilight, but how is it fair to her fans to not write a promised sequel for the people who keep her in the green? These are the people who have her quotes tattooed on their bodies, force respectable new sources to give up their seats at events, and literally shriek with joy whenever her series is mentioned. I think it's mean of her to take away Midnight Sun for those people who actually like the series.
    • I want to see someone ruin your novel, then let's see how you react.
      • Sorry, honey, her novel wasn't "ruined." A chunk of it, if you want to be generous, was ruined. Guess what? Rewrite it. Shit happens and people act like dicks. If she was going to throw a hissy if it got leaked, she shouldn't have handed out a bunch of copies in the first place. As well, as an above poster pointed out, it's not like she actually bothered to write a new story. She fucking copy-pasted from Twilight. If she's too damn lazy to actually rewrite the series, I don't give a fuck if she got burned. Incidentally, none of my novels will ever be leaked because I'm smart enough to know my work sucks right now and *if* I ever consider it worth printing, I won't be a dumbfuck who sends out copies to people—R Pattz, K Stew—who have made it crystal clear they hate the series.
      • Her novel wasn't ruined; it was partially leaked. How does a book even get leaked in its rough form? I mean, books are usually handwritten or typed and are almost never printed with more than 2 or 3 copies until they're completed and put into publication. Meyer even said herself it was leaked by a person she gave an advance copy to, a person she deeply trusted. Sounds to me like the books was released to drum up anticipation or that Meyer told the person that the book was not going to be completed and the person leaked it as retribution.
    • I think Cracked sums it up pretty well with #5 here. Some emotionally starved individuals crave fame because it gives them a sense of power. They effectively put themselves in a similar position the people they felt abused them occupied; they have legions of admiring, even obsessed fans, yet they're free to treat them like crap if it ends up making them feel more powerful. Likewise, if they feel like something's threatening to take that feeling of control away from them, they move to shut it down. Now, I'm not a psychologist, and I've never actually read or seen anything in the Twilight series, this is just my personal assessment.
  • It seems too much to this troper that Bella's basically going to have a perfect life. Unlimited time, money, a perfect daughter, perfect husband and perfect family? That's too good all the way through. All she has to worry about is her human friends (like she cares about them at all...) and family dying and Jacob dying if he eventually chooses to stop phasing. And since Resnesmee will be immortal too once she matures I doubt he would stop out of a desire to be with her. There needs to be some sacrifices!
    • But Bella is an idiot she totally forgot that, the Vulturi's first wanted to take Alice and Edward and now the Cullen family has her and Reneesme, plus the shapeshifters as things to collect into their army for power and they won't forget how many vampires were on Carlisle side during the last book, no to mention than on seven years Nessie would be grown up enough for Jacob to start to see her "that way" and that there are other half-vampire girls that might influence her to make diferent choices when she get to notice she is the only one diferent on the family and with both parents being maniac-depressive that surely won't be good during her "teen" years, also Renee would eventually want to see her daughter. So I think that she may think she will be happy forever but the books let enough room to speculate that she is absolutely wrong... as usual.
    • I cling to the idea that time will show them their folly. For instance, parts of what drew Edward to Bella were her "selfless" love of her family, her mortality, her scent, and her need for protection. None of these exists any longer and some of them didn't ever. She's going to leave her family, she isn't mortal, she no longer smells like fucking freesia, and she doesn't need to be protected. The biggest reason of all is also no longer a draw. Edward has the chance to hear her thoughts and I bet he's going to be a bit surprised to know his deep, thoughtful lady is just as shallow and perverted as the women he scorned. On the flip side, most of what drew Bella to Edward was how he protected her and his looks because he deigned to love her. He no longer has to protect her and she's just as beautiful and skilled now. What exactly are they going to have in common anymore? Books that neither of them read? One or two songs? A penchant for being egotistic, melodramatic asshats? I can only hope someone has written a scathing fanfiction where they're divorced and live hundreds of miles away from each other because they can't stand each after finally getting what they wanted.
      • You're dream is amazing but we both know Meyer won't let it end that way. It's a romance novel built to give Bella Sue the ultimate happy ending. Anything short of sparkling fairy queen of earth will be an insult to Meyer vision.
    • Here's to hoping that the last words of the last book are, "Hey honey, let's move to Sunnydale!"
      • I, personally was hoping for something along the lines of, "And then I woke up."
      • More importantly, will you marry me? Over the internet?
      • I prefer the Sunnydale ending though the dream is good too. Somehow it just seems just to have Bella staked by a person who has real troubles like Faith or Buffy. It's just so appropriate.
      • On that note, it bugs me that I can't find any crossover fics between Twilight and Buffy The Vampire Slayer that are putting the implications of that into action in some manner. For crying out loud, how are there so many genuine BTVS/Twilight fans who write the crossovers and completely miss the irony?
      • This fic isn't COMPLETELY related, but at least somebody noticed the irony.
      • Thankyou. So, so much. When my imagined crossovers weren't about Buffy slaying Edward's ass, they were about Spike laughing his ass off at the sparkling.
      • Or how 'bout Buffy laughing her ass off at Edward's sparkling before slaying him! And then proceeding to laugh about it long after.
      • The combined forces of You Tube and ingenious editing have brought us Buffy slays Edward.
      • "Giles, I killed a weird vampire today! He tried to sparkle off into the sunset but I slew his ass. Spike would've laughed had he not burned in a storm of sunlight that destroyed the Sunnydale Hellmouth before being resurrected to help Angel defeat that demonic law firm. Wait, am I supposed to know about that?"
    • Folklore tells of the dhampir, the child of a vampire and a human. They were known for being incredibly efficient vampire hunters. So Mary Sue + Sparklepire = Buffy.
      • Or better yet Faith. It turns out that her parents had gotten so much good luck in their lives, that all that was left for their daughter was a crappy life slaying and trying to hold together her fragile psyche.
  • It bugs me how much Bella complains about the weather. I am British. Crappy weather is all I have ever known. I have a cold so bad that I can't feel the front half of my face right now. A little rain is not so bad.
    • Are you suggesting that Lady Sue should have to sit through anything less than perfect sunny, bright blue days for her to frolic in and slightly cloudy evenings for going out with her boyfriend? Blasphemy!
    • Myers put the books in Forks and it is true that it rains all the time here and that the flaky Californian transplants always whine about it no matter how long they've lived with the drizzle, so that's more like unintentional Truth In Television
      • It's not just the Californians, sadly; this troper has lived in Western Washington her whole life and hates the rain so much she might as well be a California transplant. Then again, I also broke my back when I was seventeen and the damp settles into it like a mad bastard, which really doesn't help. If there's one thing I've noticed about native Washingtonians, it's that if we're not bitching about the rain, we're bitching about the lack of it; we're not happy one way or the other. (Note that I am not actually defending Bella's whining; she chose to move here, after all.) Us natives have the right to gripe, but nobody put a gun to anyone else's head and made them move here. At least, I hope not, but that would be another story entirely—a far more interesting one.
      • Also, Bella is from a desert state.
    • The reason the Cullens live there is because their...condition prevents them from living anywhere but in mostly sun-free places, like rainforests (Forks is a temperate rainforest) and the poles.
    • I think Forks sounds lovely, myself. Bella's just whiny.
    • This American troper sympathizes. I live in Florida and my grandparents live in Michigan. Whenever I visit them I am endlessly bemused at the incontinent piddle they refer to as "rain". Where I come it doesn't even count as rain unless the streets are flooding. My grandparent's friends run inside with newspapers over their heads at the slightest drizzle, then they complain about it.
  • Why did Meyer have to latch onto Muse like that? While I'm sure she genuinely likes them and the popularity of her books no doubt drew people to their concerts, she has unwittingly set them up as "that band that Twilight hawked endlessly". It's sort of wrong, considering that they're a group with sort of a psychological science fiction sound that is now sometimes associated with a sappy romance book about Friendly Neighborhood Vampires.
    • I find irony in the choice of "Supermassive Black Hole" as the obligatory Muse song for the movie. As mentioned above, Muse's style clashes with the books quite a bit, but they would probably have been a lot better if they used this song as the mood setting for the central relationship. Here are some of the lyrics:
      Oh baby don't you know I suffer?
      Oh baby can you hear me moan?
      You caught me under false pretenses,
      How long before you let me go?
      • I like Paramore's take better:
      Look what we've done
      We've made such fools
      Of ourselves
      How can I decide what's right
      When you're clouding up my mind?
      Can't win your losing fight
      All the time

      Nor could I ever own what's mine
      When you're always taking sides
      But you won't take away my pride
      No, not this time
      Not this time

      How did we get here
      When I used to know you so well?
      How did we get here?
      Well, I think I know, I think I know
      The truth is hiding in your eyes
      And it's hanging on your tongue
      Just boiling in my blood
      But you think that I can't see

      What kind of man that you are
      If you’re a man at all
      Well, I will figure this one out
      On my own

      (I’m screaming, "I love you so")
      On my own
      (But my thoughts you can't decode)
      How did we get here
      When I used to know you so well? (Yeah)
      How did we get here?
      When I used to know you so well?
      Well, I think I know, I think I know

      Do you see what we've done?
      We've gone and made such fools
      Of ourselves
      Do you see what we've done?
      We've gone and made such fools
      Of ourselves

      Yeah...
      How did we get here
      When I used to know you so well? (Yeah, yeah, yeah)
      Well, how did we get here?
      I used to know you so well

      I think I know
      I think I know

      There is something I see in you
      It might kill me,
      But I want it to be true...
      • Another song that would work is Hysteria. Check out the some of the lyrics below and the video. It may have multiple possible interpretations and is partly homage to The Wall... but it features an attractive, muscular stalker obsessed with a dark haired girl.:
      It's holding me, morphing me
      And forcing me to strive
      To be endlessly cold within
      And dreaming I'm alive

      'Cause I want it now
      I want it now
      Give me your heart and your soul
      And I'm breaking down
      I'm breaking out
      last chance to lose control

      And want you now
      I want you now
      I'll feel my heart implode
      And I'm breaking out
      Escaping now
      Feeling my faith erode
      • Oh, shit! Hysteria is one of the songs Meyer has on one of her Twilight playlists that she has on her site. I was just making a joke.
    • On the bright side, the soundtrack was easily the best thing about the movie.
      • Except for the part where they co-op'd a mournful, symbolism-rich ballad about aching nostalgia and growing disillusionment with American culture (Flightless Bird, American Mouth) for a movie embracing the shallowest, silliest parts of said culture NON-IRONICALLY.
  • Okay, in the first book, Bella is told by a vampire that he has her mom. Bella has five superpowered vampire buddies. Why the hell does she go to face the evil vampire alone? She didn't think the Cullens could come up with a plan that would save her mother without putting herself in danger? Idiot!
    • The only conclusion I can draw is that she just enjoys placing herself in mortal danger. It's the only explanation for a few of her actions, really.
    • Well, yeah. She has rocks for brains and semi-suicidal tendencies. It's the most logical explanation.
      • What bugs ME is that there are entire discussions about how ultra-mega-powerful this James guy is - Laurent refuses to takes sides in what would be an eight-on-one fight because James scares him that badly. And after roughing up a teenage girl, he's killed off screen by two of the Cullens! So much for my hope that some of the sparkly vampires would go down with him ...
    • I have a pet theory about this: it has to do with exactly why the Miaka effect happens. See, Bella is not used to danger like the Cullens are, or even those of us who read adventure fiction. She thinks of all trouble as this horrible, unstoppable thing, sort of like a flood or a hurricane and if you can't get out of the way you're going to die and that's it. If that's the case and your friends CAN get out of the way, it's actually noble to sacrifice yourself and to save them. The problem is that Bella couldn't see any other solutions, not that the solution itself wasn't a good idea in the right circumstances. It didn't help any that Laurent was talking about how unstoppable James is.
      • Despite making logical sense in the first book, it STILL greatly pulls down the plot. And Bella doesn't stop her unnecessarily suicidal tendencies as the series continues and she gets more used to danger. So it's not the Miaka effect in place. It's just Stephanie Meyer's bad writing and the need for an extremely helpless Sue.
    • I find it more idiotic that Bella is so clumsy that James' attack can be passed off as a klutz attack. But also yeah, the lack of an actual fight scene in ANY of the books is severely depressing. I hope they make up for it by an epic battle at the end of the Breaking Dawn movie instead of the wimpy-ass talk the actual source material gave us.
  • Edward. Stalks. Bella. As in, follows her to another town on her night out with friends. As in, breaks into her house almost every night to watch her sleep for like, weeks. Both before they were together, without her knowledge or consent. And then it's presented as romantic. Bella is flattered. And this stalking isn't merely the creepy and possessive but ultimately physically harmless kind, Edward said himself that he is constantly on the verge of killing her. This is just like all those episodes of Smallville with Lana's stalkers, only this time, he actually ends up with her. God, what is going on inside Meyer's head?
    • THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU!!!!! Stop watching me in your sleep you creepy, possessive STALKER. Oh, and if it's all the same to you, I'd like to be able to have A LIFE OUTSIDE OF MY BOYFRIEND. LEAVE MY CAR ALONE!!!!!!!!
      • If I remember the book correctly, Bella is presented as being "out of touch with humanity." Maybe that includes a lack of common sense, or the ability to learn about stranger danger, or even when to run away from someone who's current deepest desire is to DRAIN YOUR BODY OF ALL IT'S BLOOD!
    • I have just read the first book (Bile Fascination), so when I criticize it I can do so with authority. Although I found parts of it hilariously bad, I found Edward's actions towards Bella, and the fact he's held up as a king of romance by so many (including the author and many who are not just naive schoolgirls, which would have been bad enough), deeply unsettling.
    • And Edward's stalking isn't even the worst part! Imprinting is really creepy too! A 2 year old will grow up knowing that everyone expects her to marry and have little puppies with the werewolf. And the whole "the relationship isn't sexual" is bullshit, because if imprinting is meant for reproduction, then it is highly sexual. You know a series is disturbing if stalking isn't even the creepiest part.
    • Edward calls himself a stalker multiple times in Midnight Sun but never actually does anything about it. Doesn't everyone in his family have about ten medical degrees? Not one of them has a psychiatric degree? He couldn't talk to them and get help? It doesn't get any better in the later books, either. He forces her to go with him in Twilight, before they're even dating, and she's "kitten-angry." Bella becomes a zombie when he leaves her in New Moon and even performs dangerous stunts to force a mental hallucination of Edward's voice. He removes Bella's engine to keep her at home in Eclipse and she's barely annoyed because she thinks it's sweet. He demands she not see Jacob and, though she does so anyway, thinks it's just so protective of him. He tries to force her to have an abortion against her will in Breaking Dawn, and she's a hair's breath angrier. It's a damn good thing she got turned, because I have a feeling he would have killed her eventually, and not from sucking her blood.
    • BUT WAIT! IT GETS WORST! In Midnight sun there are PAGES of him describing how he would kill Bella and the entire biology class! What. The. Hell. It made me so disgusted that I stopped reading it. Oh yeah, and he described it in purple prose too.
    • He stalks her and thirsts for her blood as he does it. But he can control himself well enough that he doesn't end up killing her. But I must say this: Bella's period.
  • How can Bella's demon spawn exist? Edward is supposed to be 'frozen in time', i.e. his body doesn't produce sperm, and since he lacks body heat, his stored sperm should have died long before the *shudders* conception. Hell, if we include the chromosomal differences between humans and vampires, it makes the spawn even more unlikely. Did Meyer simply fail biology, or am I missing something?
    • I think the theory behind the female infertility in sparklpires is that, in order to accommodate a child, the body has to stretch, skinwise, and produce new skin cells, and female spraklpires can't. Stephenie Meyer is probably working with that.
    • All of you are forgetting that we are not talking about regular vampires, we are talking about Meyer vampires. Meyer vampires don't get killed by sunlight, garlic, stakes, crosses or holy water. Who's to say they are even undead to begin with (as opposed to immortal)?
    • Meyer fails. Full stop.
    • And even if Bella can have kids by Edward because Edward's sperm has been "frozen", then it's Edward's human sperm that's frozen, so Nessie shouldn't be half-vampire. So, it has to be Edward's vampire sperm, which makes no sense at all because a predatory cannot mate with its prey, that's just ridiculous.
    • Meyer says "Vampires are physically similar enough to their human origins to pass as humans under some circumstances (like cloudy days). There are many basic differences. They appear to have skin like ours, albeit very fair skin. The skin serves the same general purpose of protecting the body. However, the cells that make up their skin are not pliant like our cells, they are hard and reflective like crystal. A fluid similar to the venom in their mouths works as a lubricant between the cells, which makes movement possible (note: this fluid is very flammable). A fluid similar to the same venom lubricates their eyes so that their eyes can move easily in their sockets. (However, they don't produce tears because tears exist to protect the eye from damage, and nothing is going to be able to scratch a vampire's eye.) The lubricant-venom in the eyes and skin is not able to infect a human the way saliva-venom can. Similarly, throughout the vampire's body are many versions of venom-based fluids that retain a marked resemblance to the fluid that was replaced, and function in much the same way and toward the same purpose. Though there is no venom replacement that works precisely like blood, many of the functions of blood are carried on in some form. Also, the nervous system runs in a slightly different but heightened way. Some involuntary reactions, like breathing, continue (in that specific example because vampires use the scents in the air much more than we do, rather than out of a need for oxygen). Other involuntary reactions, like blinking, don't exist because there is no purpose for them. The normal reactions of arousal are still present in vampires, made possible by venom-related fluids that cause tissues to react similarly as they do to an influx of blood. Like with vampire skin—which looks similar to human skin and has the same basic function—fluids closely related to seminal fluids still exist in male vampires, which carry genetic information and are capable of bonding with a human ovum. This was not a known fact in the vampire world (outside of Joham's personal experimenting) before Nessie, because it's nearly impossible for a vampire to be that near a human and not kill her." Well, it all makes perfect sense now.
      • Yeah, except that the genetic information is not carried in the fluid, it's carried in the sperm cells. Cells which, to produce, the body must be constantly undergoing cell division. It makes no sense that male vampires would still be undergoing spermatogenesis when female vampires stop ovulating. If anything, it should be the females that are fertile, because females are born with all the ova they'll ever produce. For that matter, if it's a question of viable offspring, there's all the more reason for the female vampires to be the fertile ones, because they'd be far more likely to survive carrying a half-vampire baby to term, and less likely to have their family kill it. So basically, the only reason I can think of to not make female vampires fertile is to make Rosalie angst.
      • That's placing vampires within a different species—at best, they're a subspecies of baseline humanity. Moreover, Homo sapiens vampiric is an evolutionary dead end, because vampires have no need to reproduce. They carry on the species by being the species, since they effectively live forever, and can "reproduce" by infecting others. Without reproduction, no evolution—if ever there was a strain of vampirism that resulted in female vampires that could bear young, it would make little difference to the species as a whole. In fact, it would make even less difference—vampires who can't reproduce are more likely to infect others to carry on their line, while vampires who can reproduce can only have a finite amount of children.
      • You make good points. I mean, if smampires can MOVE, they can probably ovulate.
      • All that aside, if vampires don't have blood, Edward shouldn't even be able to get an erection, much less have pillow-biting sex.
      • It makes perfect sense how he can have sex, if you recall that in Twilight, vampires have marble-hard skin. He's effective erect enough to stick it in a woman all the time.
      • *hurrrk*
      • There's a difference between "hard" and "erect" though. His skin is the former, not the latter. An erection requires blood.
    • Still doesn't explain how they got past the chromosome difference; don't vampires have 26?
      • Well you can have a mule. They just usually have an odd number of chromes and thus are infertile. Maybe Renesmee is just incapable of bearing quarter-vampire werewolf babies.
      • But if she were incapable of having kids herself, would Jacob have imprinted on her? Leah thinks that no one has imprinted on her because she is a "genetic dead end." If she's right, then Jacob wouldn't have imprinted on Renesmee if she were a genetic dead end, as well.
      • Twenty-five, actually. But that's another thing: how does getting infected with venom give someone two extra chromosome pairs? And why did it feel like Stephenie Meyer was trying to revamp (retcon?) her supernatural races on the fourth book?
    • I think the spermheads are also immortal. This does not explain how Joham stored enough semen to impregnate like four women at one time. Maybe he has really big testicles or something.
      • After speaking with a woman about her husband's vasectomy, I come away with the understanding that it takes thirty instances to get rid of the semen - they don't remove it and it doesn't just drip out or something. Joham would be able to impregnate four women if he hadn't already had sex several times. The real problem in this equation is the cells.
      • The real reason Edward could spawn with Bella is due to him never having a sexy thought in his life prior to meeting her. Because of this he had at least one shot at it, If You Know What I Mean.
      • If you mean that since Edward never ejaculated, he had a massive buildup of sperm, then that's wrong. Part of spermatogenesis is the dismantling of old sperm for material for new sperm.
    • Actually, in folklore vampires could have children (called dhampirs) with humans. It makes the ending incredibly funny, because dhampirs were most prized for being vampire hunters.
    • Once again, since Edward = Angel, Renesmee = Connor.
      • Except they weren't called dhampirs. They were called a variety of other things. Dhampir is a modern word which I hate with a passion.
      • That's incorrect. We got the word "vampire" from the Serbian language through Hungarian through German. The word "dhampir" also comes directly from that language. Both of them are at least several hundred years old, and have numerous synonyms. The idea that the word "dhampir" was made up by Vampire Hunter D is completely false, and the actual word itself was never even used in the actual works until the novels started to be translated in 2005, when the english translator Leahy corresponded with Kikukuchi and learned about the research the latter made into Eastern European folklore.
      • Whatever they're called, I smell a fanfic...
    • If Meyer says vampire venom is like sperm, should every damn female ever bitten get pregnant? Even if she died, there would be signs of conception. The venom goes throughout the body, so some of it must get to the reproductive parts. Also, I bet at least one other vampire sexed up a human before eating her, so she'd get pregnant too.
      • The point is, Meyer should have just said "it's magic" and not tried to be scientific in a story she admitted she'd done no research for.
  • Jacob tells Bella all about the ancient tribal lore of werewolves and vampires. Bella finds out vampires are very real. Jacob starts acting funny, and she sees a pack of giant wolves scare a vampire off. She STILL can't put together exactly what's going on with Jacob and his new friends, even when he comes to her house and says "The answer is right in front of you, I told you everything already." Is she really that stupid? Or was I not supposed to connect the dots in this extremely obvious little setup?
    • You do realize you just spoiled what is supposed to be the main twist of the upcoming New Moon movie? Or that the movie audience (as opposed to the book readers) knows as much about this as Bella?
      • Who cares? A Twilight fan would have to be fond of pain or looking for a fight to come traipsing through this JBM page.
      • Um... diddums. You Should Know This Already.
      • If any of the movie fans have watched any media coverages, they probably already know he's a werewolf. They call Jacob a werewolf all of the time, which won't give audiences a surprise at all when they see the movie.
    • What got me was that she uses the word "russet" every time Jacob ever appears, and never anywhere else. Then she sees the giant russet colored wolf. Gee whatever could this mean. Also the fact that Jacob's acting funny involved joining some sort of "pack" should have given her a clue too.
  • Bella is all about being a vampire from the get-go. Nobody can come up with a reason to tell her no other than some claptrap about the afterlife. No mention is made about how such a wonderful, immortal life comes with the price of a powerful desire to feed on humans. Talk about a Broken Aesop.
    • In her case, the hunger doesn't even count because she "chose" to be a vampire and thus doesn't have the hunger—which means she has superpowers, immortality, beauty, and nothing to sacrifice but her family which she doesn't give a crap about anyway.
    • Isn't the actual curse of immortality enough to make anyone reject vampirism?
      • Not when you get to spend eternity with your perfect soulmate, perfect child and her perfect mate, and your perfect surrogate family who all adore you.
    • But, her vampirism is another example of the book's sexism. Even though Bella wanted to be a vampire from the get-go, she doesn't actually become a vampire of her own choice. She actually becomes a vampire of Edward's choice.
      • It was her choice, though. Edward didn't want her to be a vampire, but she made it clear she was going to become one anyway by another Cullen if he wouldn't agree to it. And it was her plan for Edward to change her after the demon baby was out because she knew it was going to kill her. If Edward had had his way she would have remained human and he would have committed suicide as soon as she died, whether as an old woman (though I really can't see Bella lasting that long with her tendency toward disaster). They also probably would have never had sex.
    • This troper's WMG? She's the perfect Renfield. If Twi-pires have all this fantastic glittery mind control shit floating around, it's not too hard to leap to the conclusion that Edward's influencing a particularly weak willed teenage girl into being his bountiful winepress— and thinking she likes it.
    • But but but in the last book she DOESN'T have blood lust because she was turned by her own will!
      • Which is still stupid because you can't tell me in the thousands of years there have been vampires Bella is the ONLY one who changed by her own choice.
      • Hell, even Ann Rice's vampires still hunger even if they're turned of their own choice, and they have a ton more reasons NOT to choose vampirism.
  • Bella is constantly getting knocked out, fainting, or becoming too tired to stand under her own power. If all else fails, she gets all dizzy, whether it's from blood, a shock, Edward's dazzliness, or completely random. As much as it amuses me to think that the reason for the near-constant headspin in Twilight was she was completely stoned the whole time and never mentioned it, that the heroine is so pathetic she needs her big strong love interests to carry her around all the time, in a modern, super-popular book and ship... That's quite unnerving.
    • Totally agreed. Also, I am so making a "Bella is stoned" WMG now.
  • Renesmee has the exact opposite of her parents' powers. If it is genetic like that, how in holy hell did she get the OPPOSITE? Also, sunlight shines through clouds. The vampires should look like they are perpetually covered in glitter.
  • Bella sexes an ICE-COLD MARBLE STATUE. And LIKES it. What kind of girl sticks a popsicle up hers and finds it hot? Also, "when I fell asleep, I had a nightmare"?? How did that paragraph ever make it into print?
    • Not as uncommon as you'd think. Had an ex who liked using cubes. Have come across many others who like iceplay since then.
    • This troper and a friend of his are actually considering going to the movie and standing outside the theater handing out popsicles labeled "Edward cullen dildo."
      • This troper would pay money just to see the rabid fangirls' reaction to that. Just remember, don't fall into the "Double Standard" pit if they attack you. Which they most probably will.
      • Are you going to add sparkles to the popsicles?
      • ... Actually, that sounds like an excellent idea.
      • ...And that folks, is what we call Nightmare Fuel.
      • I'm thinking of another king of Fuel...
      • If you haven't yet and still plan on doing it, we beg you, give us a YouTube link of the results. (/Kefkalaugh)
  • If Bella falls in love with Jacob, and Bella is a Mary Sue, and Jacob is named after S Meyer´s brother, then...
    • Ewwwww.
    • Also, if Jacob was in love with Bella because he was destined to love her daughter, what would have happened if Bella got with Jacob...?
      • Some hot MILF action, I'm guessing.
      • Given how everyone hates Edward, the logical answer is: the series would be much better.
    • What about the fact that she also named Leah the werewolf after one of her sisters? Leah, the one who is basically painted as a shrewish harpy and who the other wolves pretty much find annoying at best for daring to be upset that her fiance was essentially brainwashed into forever loving her cousin. This troper would personally be offended if a sibling used her name for a character like that. Does Meyer not like that sister or something?
      • Oh, Oh! Heidi, a Volturi member who dressed like a prostitute to bring in food for Aro and the rest, was also named after a sister. Which may not be so bad unless you consider the fact that Meyer is Mormon, and comes from a Mormon family, therefore it is likely that Heidi-the-not-vampire is also Mormon.
      • On the other hand, Smeyer's got a brother, Seth. You know, Seth? The webmaster for her website and the only sibling she brought with her to the movie premiere? Yeah, that one. She not only named Seth Clearwater, the cheerful, overly-friendly yet hilariously sarcastic werewolf who serves as the voice of reason that nobody listens to and the one that even some anti-fans like-basically, he is debatably the coolest character in the book-after her brother, but also named one of her SONS after the guy. Any bets on which sibling is her favorite?
  • This troper has truly grown to fear the fanbase of Twilight. And this troper was part of the Avatar The Last Airbender fanbase. Here are just a few examples that she believes broke her brain...
  • Edward gives up way too quick in New Moon. Rather than confirm Bella's death, he just goes "Oh well, time to die." And runs off to Italy after learning through hearsay that she jumped off a cliff and that there was a funeral. Besides that, death is an escape, and if Bella died through his stupidity in ditching her, he should have lived out the remainder of his immortal life, suffering for all of it.
    • I know! He didn't think to actually talk to Charlie or Renee before committing suicide? He didn't think maybe someone other than one random guy who answered the phone would know what was going on? He knows Rosalie hates Bella; it never occurred to him to check her mind and see she wasn't absolutely sure Bella had died?
  • It just bugs me that Sparklepires are ostensibly Vampires. If the author had attached this particular grab-bag of traits onto any other mythical creature, it wouldn't bug me so much.
    • So you'd be okay with sparkly werewolves?
      • Well... at least werewolves are traditionally supposed to be bathed in the light of a full moon. A werewolf that shimmers in the moonlight is at least a little less ridiculous than a vampire that shimmers in the sun. Not by much, granted, but still...
    • Maybe angels or golems or homonculi made of diamonds would be better. The world's most expensive golems.
    • Sparklethulhu. He rises from Ry'leh when the stars are fabulous.
      • This troper would pay good money to see that.
      • This troper would pay bad money to see that.
      • "The Thing cannot be described - there is no language for such abysms of shrieking and immemorial lunacy, such eldritch contradictions of all matter, force, and cosmic order. A mountain walked or stumbled. The Thing of the idols, the green, sticky spawn of the stars, had awaked to claim his own. Then the sun struck him, and he burst into a shining rainbow of bright light. I noticed then that his eyes, which I had thought before were a madness-inducing swirl of darkness from beyond space, were actually a beautiful amber color. 'No', I thought, 'this perfect, beautiful doom creature can't be meant for a simple girl like me...'"
      • Troper who wrote that, please marry me. Together we'll make beautiful parodies that offend fangirls worldwide.
    • Sparkly genies? Sparkly fairies? Sparkly Yetis? Sparkly elves? Sparkly dragons? Shiny Pokemon(they sparkle)? Sparkly lepruchauns?
    • Sparkle Claus rides on his Sparkledeer every December 25th to deliver Mary Suedom to all the good boys and girls who pursue unorthodox relationships that borderline on abuse and frequently involve stalking. He's also known to deliver wall bangers to anyone who actually thinks about what they just read.
  • It also bugs me that Twilight fans aren't bothered by Bella's traumatic C-Section. Her Werewolf ex vampire husband bites through her skin to deliver her spawn and this doesn't creep them out.
    • This troper is more interested in seeing how they adapt that for the movies and keep it PG.
      • Who says they are gonna keep it PG? Surely someone making a movie series about vampires and werewolves wouldn't be stupid enough to market it to a child audience, right? Right?
    • This troper is more interested in seeing if they realize how nuts the fans are, and get so paranoid about losing them that they just make the last few movies pure R rated Gorn.
    • Unfortunately, that has happened before.
  • Besides the vastly undeserved popularity for such a crappy story, the thing that bothers me most about Twilight is the Squick factor of the fact that Bella essentially engages in necrophelia. And, this being Twilight, it is of course deemed "romantic."
    • I insist, who's to say Meyer vampires are even undead to begin with?
    • Well, that is the main problem, isn't it? Twilight's vampires forget that they're undead. You can't just ignore the basics of vampire lore because it's gross; their rules and weaknesses are a symbolic price to pay for immortality. When vampires are chaotic good flying bricks with no negative aspects whatsoever, the kind of person who would choose such a life has expanded from magnificent bastards to damn near everyone.
      • Especially when apparently choosing to be turned nullifies the hunger for human blood and thus you get immortality, godlike beauty, and superpowers with the only disadvantages of never seeing your deceased loved ones again and having your favorite pizza taste like dirt.
      • And your loved ones could just choose to be turned and then no one would have a problem anymore.
      • Yes, its like genies without the slavery disadvantage or any weakness to anything. The disadvantages exist to create balance between positive and negative so they don't become perfect Mary Sues. Just because its romance doesn't mean she needed to throw gross basics of vampire lore in the garbage. In fact, romance is done better when the magical creatures aren't perfect Sues. Fiction does need conflict.
  • It just bugs me how Bella is willing to risk her life and totally diss her friends and family for Edward because she loves him that epically much... and yet all she can talk about how attracting he LOOKS. It feels like that's the only reason she likes him at all. And she's willing to risk her life for him? Shallow, much?
    • He's hot and she's tasty. It's true love.
    • Someone should totally do a comparison of how many times she praises his physical looks versus his physical skills (strength, speed, etc.) versus his emotional skills (kindness, hobbies, etc.). I bet the first two will be a bit higher.
    • Try the same thing with Edward. It might even be a shallower love than Romeo and Juliet who, if you'll remember, got married just for the sex and killed themselves because the sex was gone.
      • Even worse, I mean at least in Romeo and Juliet Juliet was torn between love for her husband and love for her cousin and family. Plus, Juliet never strings Paris along while clearly prefering Romeo.
  • Rosalie's human family were comfortably middle-class in the Depression apparently because her father was a banker. And she was supposed to marry the filthy rich bank owner's son. A rich bank owner, in the Depression. This troper thinks 'bank' must be a euphemism for 'organized crime syndicate'.
    • That might actually be a symptom of Meyerism. Stephenie Meyer seems to have forgotten that the Depression was caused by the failure of the banks. So the bankers should have been the miserably poor ones.
  • It Just Bugs Me a lot that they've cast Jackson Rathbone (Jasper in The Movie) as the live-action Sokka. Must this crapfest invade everything that is good in this world?!?
    • So just because an actor was in Twilight, he's not allowed to play a role in anything better? Sheesh!
      • I think it has to do more with the fact that Sokka is Inuit and pretty damn dark and Rathbone is a pale white kid.
      • Also his quote that all he'd have to do is get a tan and a ponytail to look the part ticked off just a few fans.
    • Adaptation Decay. The Air Nation and the Water Nation are white, and the Fire Nation are Indian/Iranian/Afghan/Iraqi. I'm guessing the Earth Nation will be the token Asians.
      • You mean token east Asians...
    • Blame M Night Shyamalan for his increasingly crappy movies. I hope, for the love of God I hope this so badly, that he doesn't try to insert one of his trademark twist endings into the movie.
  • In the movie, when Bella is in the hospital, why is it that in all the closeups the air tube is in front of her eyes, but otherwise it's nowhere near them? Also, why does it shift so much while she's talking with Edward?
    • This makes me miss the days of nitpickers.com ...
  • If long hair equals shaggy werewolf, does that mean if one of them goes bald, we have a hairless werewolf?
    • Indeed, Meyer werewolf are as different from regular werewolves as Meyer vampires are from regular vampire.
      • Except she even said that they weren't werewolves. The Volturi had seen real werewolves; the "spirit wolves" are something different. This troper actually started a fanfic where they met another such tribe with a different spirit animal.
    • I've never read these books, but the werewolves are Native American, right? I've read that Native Americans tend to be very resistant to baldness, so that issue probably doesn't come up much.
  • If Jacob imprinted on Nessie before she was born (by imprinting on the egg) shouldn't he have gotten more attached to Edward too since his sperm is half of Nessie(therefore, Jacob would have to imprint on the sperm as well)?
    • As the troper who made the WMG entry he thinks you're referring to, he's thinking that—since women are born with every egg they'll ever carry, while men constantly produce new sperm (also, I'm still not sure exactly how vampire sperm production works. Is it like a normal male's?)—coupled with the fact that, during the last half of "New Moon" and most of "Breaking Dawn" Edward did become closer to Jacob (at least getting to an easy indifference) leads him to believe that his theory is still correct.
    • Wouldn't that mean that the werewolf must imprint on not only the love interest, but her parents too?
      • Talk to the anti-abortionists. "Imprinted on her before she was born" =/= "imprinted on her before she was conceived". In no way was it implied that Jacob's previous attraction to Bella was caused by the imprinting, merely his inability to leave during the pregnancy despite outwardly abhorring the idea of that baby.
  • I haven't read the books, only seen the movie, but how is Bella supposed to explain away the bite marks on her arm as the result of falling through a window?
    • Windows have teeth. Just like "treasure chests"
    • Because they're hard to see. It's also more plausible to get a scar from several shards of glass that just happens to look like a bite mark then to have a bite mark that leaves a permanent scar.
  • More to the point, how do you show up at a hospital with a girl who's obviously been banged up ridiculously bad and tell them she fell down the stairs without getting at least a little guff?
    Edward:"Oh, hi! This bruised and battered pile of flesh here fell down the stairs and got hurt. Also? I'm her boyfriend."
    Doctor:"Uuuurr.... D'okay!"
    • Because by the time Bella shows up at the hospital there are several witnesses willing to claim she fell down two flights of stairs and a window. There's also the evidence that Alice manufactured and Bella's mother's confirmation about her daughter's clumsiness.
    • If you ask me, beating Bella wouldn't have been ridiculously out-of-character for the man who stalked her and would watch her sleep. AND who destroyed her car so she couldn't see friends he didn't like, AND who had her kidnapped to "keep her safe".
      • Who cares? If I was her mother, I'd be up in arms that Bella was upset enough by Edward to fall through a window.
  • If I was on a honeymoon, I'd pack condoms. Is Alice really naive or just stupid? Who the hell packs tampons but not condoms for a honeymoon?! That just displays a frightening lack of common sense (vampiric STD's, anyone? Human STD's? Thinking with your brain and not your genitals?) and it ruined the entire New Moon for me.
    • Two virgins probably aren't really at risk for spreading ST Ds. As for birth control - that's not something they even knew they had to worry about.
      • There is still a risk of spreading something like a zootonic/species-crossing disease, which is asymptomatic or beneficial in one but not the other.
      • Not to mention, to their knowledge, all vampiric bodily fluids are venomous. A condom would just be comon sense.
      • Well, Tanya and her coven sleep around with human men with no ill effects, so they were probably just assuming it'd be the same for a male vampire and human female.
  • Where did the Cullens get the blood bank with human blood from? If they are "vegetarians", why on Earth did they suddenly sacrifice all of their principles and morals?
    • Carlisle works at a hospital. Chances are he borrowed it without anyone knowing or he told the hospital Bella was quarantined and he needed it.
      • So he stole somebody's blood? Way to be a fair and compassionate doctor there, Sparkleson Sr. Hope the original donor doesn't mind it's going to self-destructive idiot and not going to a cancer kid.
      • There's a point past which blood becomes useless for transplants but possibly not for vampire food, so if the blood was going to be discarded anyway his taking it wouldn't harm anyone.
    • What the hell are you talking about?
      • We don't know how long blood is "good" for vampires but we do know that it can never last more than a month and be transfusable material for humans. So feasibly, he could offer to discard of the blood himself. Which wouldn't at all get suspicious after years of doing this.
  • I realize that the fans are bad, but when did Twilight become the new Hetalia? People gathering around to talk all about how they hate a series and its fans just for being its fans?(To understand what I mean, you have to look at some of the posts over at here, especially this)
    • Apparently you haven't met furries at all. You'll be surprised how only the sillier furries (who are looked down upon by the fandom itself) are the only ones crying.
    • Yeah, but it's not like a large part of the hatebase doesn't go Serious Business and say "All Twilight fans are morons". If anything, this page alone is proof that the haters can be just as obsessive, if not worse. Twilight didn't destroy or corrupt literature. Stephenie Meyer didn't kill your father or rape your child.
    • No she just killed my faith in the free market (by the fact that people like and buy this crap) and raped my favorite creatures in all of folklore.
    • You are right how many take it too far with the broad condemning of all fans as morons (have some friends to who like it and while I think they're mental but they know it's just a silly romance novel. Plus I love the Warhammer 40000 Horus Heresy novels, so I'm not exactly innocent of GuiltyPleasures). But saying the haters are worse is really stretching it. At most, they grumble and act like jerks. The main reason people can't stand the books is many of the fans take it really, really seriously in the first place, holding up Edward as a paragon of love and romance, and profess Bella and Edward's love is the thing of ages. Just read what Robert Pattinson had to put up with, for starters. So, while Ms. Meyer did not kill/rape anyone, the fans may very well do so if you dare insult Edward in their presence. They take fan-crazy to new levels.
    • Some Fan Haters wish death and rape on Stephenie Meyer. Not her characters, but SMeyer *herself*. Look below and tell me that's not just as batshit.
    • Rape is wrong in all instances. DO YOU HEAR THAT SLASH FIC WRITERS? And death is a little extreme. I personally hops for an aphasia (split) in Broca's area, which is the area of the brain responsible for the ability to produce language. Can't write a book if your mind can't produce language.
    • That is truly pathetic (the people wishing that on Ms. Meyer, that is), and even though I'm 99% sure it's just a twisted example of an Internet Tough Guy, also a little unsettling, so you're right there. Still, considering what some of the Fans did re: Robert Pattinson, and some of the actual, physical violence that has been visited upon critics of the books (admitted, a lot of which I'm sure is either embellished or outright made up, but not all), no I don't think it's just as batshit. Damn close though.
    • I think the main reason Twilight has attracted such a hatedom is because of people who heard "vampire story" and thought they'd get a fantasy fix. But I suspect (I haven't actually read it or seen the movie, thank God) that Twilight is not so much a vampire story as it is a romance novel that happens to have supernatural elements. Read that way, both the book's crappiness and its obsessive popularity become much more comprehensible. (Sure, it may be a crappy story laden with purple prose, but how different is that from most romance novels, really?) Because some of the people who picked up the book expected Anne Rice and didn't get it, they felt a little betrayed and flocked to the Internet to complain that it was a crappy book, and Twilight fans aren't used to anything they've loved becoming really critically examined at all.
      • I hate romance novels. I shouted down Romeo and Juliet's love when I was a freshmen. Twilight is just the worst of the romance novels because it makes pretense of being an important life lesson for children everywhere to learn. Most romance novelists at least understand that all they're doing is writing a sex fantasy that will allow unhappy housewives to live vicariously through the characters in the book. Meyer sees herself as being a visionary of love.
      • The reason I suppose is that most anTwis (including myself) believe Twilight fans don't realize the problems with the book— such as the fact that everyone loves Bella, Bella hates everyone who doesn't sparkle, Edward shows numerous traits of an abusive boyfriend, and none of their flaws do more than further the 'romance,' all danger created by the flaws in others. Most people who want to be writers when they grow up dislike Twilight because, basically, it's a very cliched story that fails on every basic standard of writing outside of grammar and spelling.
      • EXACTLY! It's always been this troper's dream to be a writer of fiction but after hearing that a novel such as Twilight was heralded as "literature," I practically had a Heroic BSOD on the spot.
      • Yet this Troper's ENGLISH teacher loves the book.
      • All of this troper's English professors—my major, yo—at university hate it with a passion.
      • It's the same with my fellow Lit majors. A Nd it doesn't stop there. Drama/theater, several language majors, and even a good portion of art majors dislike it.
    • There's three reasons: first, is that it's generally regarded as actual bad writing, and should most certainly not be praised or considered an example of brilliant work of art like it is now; in that sense, it's like The Day After Tomorrow is to Scientists, only where there's a much larger portion of people saying it's the best thing ever made of it's type. The second thing is that the die-hard fans all fall into a particular demographic, which can indeed be generalised easily. The third thing is that since every fan thinks the book is good, it implies... 'something' about the fans. The portion of people who were expecting a Buffy-esque book isn't even worth consideration, it's so small; it's mostly just a point put by fans who can't consider why people consider a book filled with Mary Sues to be a bad thing.
      • Not every fan thinks it is good. Most of my fan-friends think it's trash but love it for the pure fluff and mindlessness of it. I like it myself as an Anti because it's fun to think of A Us where it doesn't suck in so many, many ways.
      • That's not a fan, that's a reader. The difference is that the fans are going to fight against anyone calling it bad while the readers merely enjoy it as more of a guilty pleasure type book.
    • How about the fact (as mentioned in other places on this page) that this book TELLS GIRLS THAT STALKING IS ROMANTIC!!!!! How many women are going to end up in damaged relationships, abused, possibly beaten to death all because they fell in love with the paperback shite that Stephenie Meyer took?
    • The same ones that ended on a abusive relationship for the last century? I think the books are terrible but I think is exaggerated to think that all the women/girls that likes then are going to end up on abusive relationships. Is like the guy that killed his girlfriend and drank her blood, over Anne Rice's Interview with the vampire movie. He was a nutjob already the book was just an excuse, the same with any girl/woman that decides that stalking is love works on the Real Life...And I think for all the sexism the book has is also sexist to think that women are so mentally unstable that just because they read a book they are going to do exactly what the book said, specially if is damaging to them. I mean is like saying every male that read The Catcher in the Rye will end up killing someone.
  • So few of the fans are creative with their Shipping. Most of the people on Team Edward think Team JACOB is out there. They'd probably pass out if they read the Crack Pairing page, and actually knew characters beyond the Twilight series.
  • Team Edward here, love crackpairing, maybe passing out just out of the LULZ.
    • When you have a series where most of the choices are between necrophilia and bestiality, there just doesn't seem much of a point to it.
    • Also, love in Twilight tends to involve destined soulmates. Twitards believe in that. Therefore, how can they crack pair if everyone is destined for each other and (according to SM and her 'tard army) will get together with their destined other? And, aren't some Canon pairings kinda cracky too? Jacob/Reneesmee and Quil/Claire seem quite crazy to me.
      • And that's what bugs me. As long as he keeps his spirit wolf form, Jacob won't age past early adulthood and is essentially just as immortal as a vampire (well, okay, still easier to kill, but he could potentially live a long time). The age difference between Jacob and Renesmee is about 18 years or so. The age difference between Edward and Bella is five times that. Excuse me, what pairing is Squicky?
      • THE ONE THAT INVOLVES A NEWBORN.
      • Here are some Crack Pairings involving Twilight characters for your enjoyment:link
    • There is way too little slash in Twilight circles. Alice/Bella is practically canon and the inherent nature of vamps make the very act of turning seem like sex.
  • Leah. There's a perfectly explainable reason for why her period stops. Like all the other werewolves, she stopped aging when she became a werewolf. She just stopped at a point in her cycle when she's not menstrual. If she's stuck ovulating (hopefully not since the werewolves spend a lot of time using wolf instincts over human) or if she stops shifting long enough, she'll start to age again and be able to get pregnant. But Meyer never mentions this. The characters should have realized this once it clicked that male vampires could procreate. It would have made Leah much less bitter and take away some of the Unfortunate Implications of the only female werewolf being a dead end genetically.
    • My guess is Meyer didn't do the research again, has sexist opinions, didn't want any female to be powerful enough to outrank Bella and the vampires by being able to bear children—one of the only things female vampires cannot do—and just doesn't think about her own series.
  • What is it about this book that gets the fans so violent? I know other fandoms like Harry Potter's or Naruto's can get pretty crazy but I've never heard of any members of those fandoms actually attacking people in real life. I've read horror stories about Twitards punching, kicking, throwing things, and even threatening to KILL people just because they don't goddamn like a crappy book! What in the world lurks behind all that Purple Prose makes these people degenerate into total nutjobs?
    • It's probably because by criticizing it, people are intruding on the rabid fans' sexual fantasy.
    • It's because many Twilight fans are teenage girls, and teenage girls are— get this— hormonal and passionate. There are many of them. They know they are supported. They're the Twilight-loving moral majority, and "not liking it" is immediately associated with rabid, hateful idiots who dislike it because it isn't Buffy. Much like how liking Twilight for your own guilty pleasures reasons immediately associates you, in the mind of a Twi-hater, with someone who'd gouge a girl's eye out for NOT LOVING EDWARD ENOUGH.
    • After hearing about some of the things Twilight fans have done, I am convinced that the recent "Revenge of the Catgirls" storyline in Something Positive was written entirely with Twilight fans in mind.
  • Edward is not perfect. Yes, Bella describes and sees him as perfect- but that's the point. She's the narrator and she's in love with him, and she's an extremely subjective one too.
    • Which would be true, had it been descriptions only. Nearly everything he does in the book is perfect too.
      • Edward is creepy and abusive, which kind of makes him imperfect. All right, so Meyer/Bella doesn't seem to notice this, but Bella does get pissed at him when he wrecks her car and has Alice kidnap her to prevent her from seeing Jacob (which he later admits was wrong) and when he refuses to have sex with her. And dumping her in New Moon was (from Meyer/Bella's POV) a huge mistake. Yet, it's true she has no problem with the stalking though.
  • There's something that really bugs me.... How come that everyone who claims to hate these series knows every minor detail of everything written in each of the books.... I guess you can't spell Fan Haters without Fan.
    • Twilight is Snark Bait. It's Bile Fascination , silly. We read the books because it has so much to make fun of. Plus, we can use it as a shining example of HORRIBLE writing.
    • Cleolinda's Twilight recaps (who herself views them as hilariously cracky Guilty Pleasures. Also, most of the "minor details" are usually the bizarre scenes that spread around via the "Horrify The Twilight Noob" game (which often include excerpts).
    • It gives us more fuel for bitching about them. Which is fun. After all, they made a whole show about it. Plus, sometimes it's just awe-inspiring to find a ridiculously bad piece of work and watch or read all of it, just to gape that yes, something can really be screwed up that bad. For god's sake, why do so many people read My Immortal?
    • Also, every Twilight fan who deals with an Anti screams 'HAVE YOU EVEN READ IT!?!?! YOU'LL GET IT IF YOU DO!" Once you have read it and can give a more in-depth analysis of why it makes all fans of decent literature be in a state of wailing and gnashing their teeth, their response is similar to yours— "Well if you read so much of it, you MUST have liked it!"
    • This Anti read it for academic research purposes. I don't know every 'minor detail' of the series but I'm familiar enough with it to detail why I find it odious. Honestly though, it would hardly be fair to criticise a series unless you were at least somewhat familiar with it. Plus, you've got to remember, a lot of antis are former fans.
  • This isn't so much a JBM about the books, numerous as their problems are, but rather with this page, ie., why all the CAPS-LOCK RAGE? I only ask because Harry's wondering when he's going to get it back.
    • Because this series appears to be where CAPLOCK COMM stupidity and rabid frothing passion on both sides of the argument intersect.
    • I do it because I don't know how to emphasis without using asterisks and asterisks do funny things to the page.
  • Does anyone other than me find it ironic that when you bring up this page, ads that say "Meet Twilight fans just like you!" pop up when this page seems to be solely inhabited by anTwis and Guilty Addicts?
    • It's like the "Date A Gay Millionaire" ads on the Mistaken For Gay page. Sweet, sweet irony.
  • It bugs me that lots of Fan Haters are proud to wish death and rape and torture on Stephenie Meyer, bash Mormonism as a whole, area bunch of elitists... and expect people to bow to them and say "U R SO KEWL AND 3DGY". Or something. Really, guys, for all the whining about rabid fans and your martyr complex, you're just as bad, if not worse.
    • Would you please provide a link to some examples? I'm just getting tired of getting told about these Fan Haters who do that, clicking on the links thinking they're examples, only to end up at a page which is just some person complaining about these people some more, without providing linkage to examples themselves, either. Especially since I just removed the bit that actually did promise examples on the main page, when it was really just more people complaining about Fan Haters. I certainly believe these Fan Haters could exist, but it's specifically the way people complaining about them only link to more people complaining about them that's making me start to wonder.
    • Well, you don't seem to talk to a lot of Haters, because everyone Hater that I've ever met (Including friends and myself, who were all former fans) hates Twilight itself for the bad messages, not the Fans.
      • Actually the whiny troper who started this topic up there has about half a point. I have encountered many people who hate Twilight more for the fans than for the book. However, these people usually just go about baiting fangirls into attacking so they can post the story and create a self perpetuating cycle. I've never seen a single instance of people wishing death or rape, badmouthing the entire Mormon religion (at least, not because of Twilight), and bashing for others approval. Most people bash for amusement, badmouth Mormons because it often seems like a strange religion, and no ant fan is rabid enough to go to the extreme of wishing death on the creator. Without Ms. Meyer and her terrible books, what would I have to complain about on a boring Tuesday afternoon?
    • For all the talk about the PSYCHO VIOLENT CRAAAZY FANGIRLS, all the fans I've met in real life seem like...normal people. Maybe it's just when you get them in groups? However, I have seriously offended people on this very site by insinuating Twilight isn't quite as bad as people say, to the point where they seriously freaked out on me.
    • Don't know about random antis across the internet, but I have never seen anyone on Twilight Sucks.com, the anti-Twilight HQ, say or do anything close to that. And, btw, if you want proof the fandom is crazy, do the logical thing and ask one of the people working in a bookstore. Even in Australia they're all like "Oh, god yes," and we haven't got it as bad as the US here. Or, if you're outside the US, you probably haven't got it as bad as them, 'kay?
      • My best friend works at a bookstore and while she hates the actual books with a passion, she hasn't encountered any problems with the people who buy them. And yes, we're in the US.
      • Pffft. This Chilean Troper has a friend who works in a popular bookstore and says the Twilight fans she knows are, well, normal. As much, they brought lots of coins when it was their turn to purchase the books when they went on sale here. No biting, no hysteria, no horribly rabid and aggressive fangirls, etc. I live near to a theater and never saw too many weird things coming from the girls who went to watch the movie there. Twilight fans aren't necessarily a bunch of nutjobs, unlike the Fan Haters (several of them acting pretty much psycho at the mere mention of Twilight) claim.
      • This Troper prefers to go along with her friend in saying she's 'Not a hater, but certainly not a lover'. Both fans and haters have their rabids, unfortunately. Thankfully, every Twilight fan I know is sane. But you have to admit, the stuff Patterson [is that right?] relates certainly does inspire some 'what the hell?' toward fans. And yeah, Harry really wants his caps rage back, leiknaoplz.
      • Frankly, I'm getting kind of sick of the "Antis are just as bad," crap. Yes, some Antis do go too far. Yes, not every Twilight fan is a nutter, I know and am friends with some very nice ones. But until someone presents me with something like this, the fanbase still has a highly unusual amount of crazy and the Antis as a whole are nowhere near as bad, quite simply because they don't try to kill people over the matter.
      • I could completely make up a farfetched story and post it on that forum and everyone would believe me because it's what they want to hear. I suspect that's what the people who only posted there once or twice actually did. I'm sure many of those are true, but there's no proof of any of it. If wikipedia is unreliable, so is that forum.
      • And I'm fully aware of that. I also think that some of those would have been made up. But since we agree many of them are for real, the point still stands.
    • This Troper is an anti, and has yet to meet another anti that acts anything like that. She has, however, met many a fangirl wishing death and miscarriage on someone for not liking the books.
      • I've been told that I'll never know true love by a friend after I told her Twilight sucked. I countered with a sucker punch of "I'm sorry, I'm just so jealous of Edward and Bella's love," which actually caused a surprising amount of girls to start talking about how deep and complex I was. When I revealed I was lying, I got one death threat but most just said that I was too ashamed to admit my true feelings.
  • Meyer suggested Wuthering Heights to the Twilight Moms book club... and then started thesetopics. I can't make it through the whole topic without wanting to smash something, as there are a couple of dissenters, but mostly, it's decided it sucks because it's not a nice love story, and the characters are horrible people. They're meant to be horrible! It wasn't supposed to be nice! Their love is destructive to them and everything around them, that was the whole point! It's romance presented as a gothic horror story! And furthermARRRRRRRGGGHHH NEEEEEEEEEERD RAAAAAAAAAGE! I mean, seriously.
    • Having calmed down a bit, this troper now suspects that part of the reason they dislike it is because it deconstructs the Twilight-y notion that love is always a good thing and that it will always turn out well, instead showing mutual love causing a whole lot of pain for absolutely everyone involved.
      • Which doesn't make it any less bad, of course. BTW: is Meyer that "lisa" user?
    • I agree that they probably didn't see Wuthering Heights in the right context. "It's an old classic so it's gotta be really happy romantic." It is a classic but not for that reason. Like you stated, it's really a classic because it was a romance written as a twisted up horror story. I can't remember where I read it (it might have been Cleolinda) but someone wrote that the best way to read Wuthering Heights is more like a hate story rather than a love story. And I completely agree.
      • Edward himself says that in Eclipse, on page 28. "It isn't a love story, it's a hate story."
      • So... Meyer understands the basic premise of Wuthering Heights, and merely cannot comprehend that someone would write a romance as a bad thing? I wonder how she'd react if she found out Romeo and Juliet was a satire? That would be an entertaining meltdown.
  • So in New Moon, Jasper almost bites Bella. Then when all the Cullens leave Forks, he goes off to college. Alone. Who thought this was a good idea? Bella was his wife's friend, his brother/friend's girlfriend, and was predicted to join their family in the future. He had a good reason to not kill her and drink her blood and yet he still attempted it. Random college students would not fall under the same reasoning. What's preventing him from catching a whiff one day and slaughtering his Introduction to Biology class?
    • Meyer has said before that she thinks the Cullens have "fallen off the wagon," quite a few times, because not eating people is hard, you know? So, given that they've killed people many times before and still taken no preventive measures, I suspect they simply don't care enough. That would certainly fit with the "normal humans suck except for Special Snowflake Bella," attitude of the books.
SEE, if I was a immortal super person who salivated like Pavlov's dog at the mere scent of human blood, the last thing I'd want to do is send anyone of my kind out into a helpless group of them alone. That's just me, of course.
  • My WMG is that the Cullen vampires really just hate humans and the only reason they don't eat them is because they like being superior and showing off.
  • Just like a real vegetarian! Just kidding vegetarians, I know that you don't all act superior. Vegans, however, are another story.
  • It bugs me that everyone I meet in real life likes the name Renesmee. And not just brain dead teenage girls, but one of my best friends who we traded in depth theories about Deathly Hallows and laughed our butts off at Albus Severus. But Reneesme is somehow better than that? Is there a lobotomy that I missed?
    • You're not alone. Those of us who know of the stupid name are few and our number are dwindling, but we must hold on for the good of our children. There is no way in hell I'm going to let my child marry a girl named Reneesme.
  • Excuse me, was anyone else bothered by how accepting the Cullens were of vampires that were not vegetarians, you know, the ones that murdered humans and drank their blood? Or their casual, try not to fall of the wagon approach to themselves? And they never even attempt to justify it; I was hoping that one of them would at least say it was a natural predator-prey relationship, you can't blame the cat for eating the mouse, etc. Which of course still fails to justify the casual acceptance of murdering sentient creatures. But then again, the vampires are sparkly...
    • Vampire's are SUPPOSED to feed off humans. The very fact that Vampires were made able to feed off animals is Meyer attempting to address the issue and avert it, because murdering and feeding off of sentient life (which is just horrible, clearly) must be avoided, even if that requires a hit to mythology of the very creatures...
    • I guess the parallel would be a human who is an actual vegetarian because s/he thinks killing animals is wrong, or a pro-life person who thinks abortion is murder. Not all of these people (though there are many exceptions) go around trying to force these beliefs on others, and people generally respect them for it, even though it seems a little weird when you think of them as seeing murder in their life and not trying to stop it. Many such people assume (perhaps correctly) that imposing it on others won't change them, and try other routes, which might be how the Cullens see it.
      • If a cow could tell me in no uncertain terms to not eat it, I'd drop my burger-loving ways.
    • What bothered me most about that was that in the first book, James and Co. were EVIL because they ate humans. But then in the last book, all the other vampires that ate people were portrayed as being nice people who just happen to have made a different life choice. It seems like the defining factor in evil-ness is not so much 'eating humans' as it is 'wanting to eat Bella'.
      • You have to remember the evil vampires were specifically mentioned as plain, so you're only bad if you're ugly and want to eat Bella.
  • This troper read Breaking Dawn because everyone at school was talking about it. Then she thought, "OK, not bad. Why not read the others?" You see, I have a history of not reading the first book in a series, reading another, then reading the rest and loving it. I picked up Twilight, sat down and read it. skimmed most of it, so the next time I read it more thoroughly. Then I put the book down, looked at it and said, "This is the biggest heap of crap I've ever read in my life." I was just thinking, "What the fuck. This is shit. What is wrong with me? Or is it everyone else?" I talked to some of my friends, and they said it was sloppily written, uninteresting, unrealistic. The people who said that are the ones who know books and know how to analyse them. I am not the person to ask about that. But I was worrying I was losing my mind, because in my school, half the girls love Edward, the other half love Jacob. And there I was thinking, "God, Bella is a fuckwit." How can anyone be such a ditz and still be alive?
    • Amen. Sadly this is the truth: most girls will fall head over heels in love with a guy they think is perfect and turn a blind eye to all that happens to prove otherwise. It also happens to guys but less often because men as a gender usually prefer to be choosy in love and less choosy in sex while girls go vice versa.
    • Yeah, I agree completely. Bella really is the most annoying character. And it definitely would have been interesting to read Breaking Dawn first, as I believe it was the best of the four.
  • what I don't understand about the books' popularity and their reviews is how the language has passed as acceptable ; "Gah! I gasped" , "sorry, he apologised". How did that get published? It could have been written by a 14 year old.
    • My teachers hate it for that very reason. I would have failed Comp 1 if I had handed in that trash as a final draft.
      • What's worse is that Meyer has a degree in Literature from a respectable university. On the count of three..... One..... Two..... Three. WHAT THE FUCKING HELL??!?!?!??
    • Meyer obviously struck a nerve with this book, and the editor who let it pass clearly had a nose for where the money is: hysterical 13-16 year old girls, who don't give a rat's ass about how well-written a story is. Kudos to them for that.
      • It's like someone took a terrible fan fiction, spit polished it, rolled it in glitter and then said, "This is what a bestseller should look like!"
      • All my literary dreams are dying slowly and painfully.
  • Alice and Bella have more chemistry than Bella and Edward. Just thought I'd mention something about the book
    • Meyer is a Mormon, and Mormons don't approve of lesbianism. Not gonna happen.
      • Doesn't change the fact that Alice is less abusive, cares for Bella for something other than her looks/smell, and is pretty awesome in her own right.
      • The Amazon vampires were implied to be lesbians, and they were the ones who taught Bella to use her powers and brought in the Deus Ex Machina at the end. Also, Mormons don't approve of premarital sex either, but Tanya's coven was still portrayed positively even though they're only "vegetarian" so that they can seduce human men, and Bella really has no problem with it all.
      • Frankly, there is so much implied in this book without Meyer even being aware of it that I'd be more willing to believe Meyer was completely oblivious to the Amazon Ho Yay.
  • Couldn't the relationship between Bella and Edward be equated to the relationship between a Fundamentalist Jack Chick-type Christian and God - ie., give up everything except slavish devotion to me while I threaten you, or I'll destroy you?
    • Make that a Fundamentalist Jack Chick-type God, and I'm sold. It's like people who take the "OMG OMG MARRIAGES ARE LIKE HOW GOD INTERACTS WITH PEOPLE, EXCEPT THE WOMAN IS THE LOWLY SINFUL AWFUL HUMAN AND THE MAN IS OMNISCIENT ALL-POWERFUL GOD" stance. And that just made this whole series one metric ton creepier and I hate you. Or love you. Whichever. (For the record, in a marriage, aren't both parties supposed to be equally devoted to each other? As in, Adam and Eve pre-fall getting along swimmingly and paying deference only to God? Guess we screwed that one up royally...)
      • Genesis 7.2 Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female.
        Looks like they're folowing the biblical model to me.
      • Under the presumption that humans are also "clean" and so likely edible? Hmm. You intrigue me.
      • Well, as God disproves of cannibals, I think you're going to need a different verse.
    • There's a hilarious write-up from an actual Mormon which correlates Edward to the founder of Mormonism.

  • Sloppy writing, sick making heroine and wonderful piece of cardboard hero aside, my main beef with the first book- I'm NOT reading the others- is the severe lack of research into Carlisle's background. Apparently he's English and born in the 1640s, "at a time of religious upheaval". Does everyone see where this is going? There's the usual remarks about 'the rule of Cromwell' and Carlisle's father being an Anglican pastor who hunted witches, werewolves and other things that go bump in the night. Contrary to popular belief, the Protectorate lasted 1653-1659, not a vague period of some ten to twenty years (the last eight months being poor old Richard Cromwell's problem).Although they had a jolly good time persecuting Catholics and Puritans, witch-hunting never fell under the remit of your average Anglican clergy. Meyer seems to have been inspired by the detestable lawyer Matthew Hopkins, self-proclaimed Witchfinder General, who used the Civil War as a front for his activities. Not only did he snuff it after just three years (1644-1647), he operated solely in the eastern counties of England, not London (Cullen Sr's base). You can argue that this is an alternative world version but it makes no sense. It states Carlisle was 23 when he was 'changed'. Doesn't that mean they'd be running their scam after the Restoration? ... Oy, vey. She's obviously glutted on a Salem-inspired vision of Protectorate England where witchhunters ran around burning people and yanking mince pies from diners' mouths.
    • Still more support for this troper's theory that Carlisle is nowhere near the experienced übervamp he sets himself up as— he's likely lying about the age. Or Muraki.
  • This. Abandon all faith in humanity's future, all ye who click here,◊ *HEADDESK* *HEADDESK* *BANG!*
    • I'm pretty sure whomever made that picture was just being sarcastic.
  • What kind of bloody stupid name is Edward for a vampire? It's an old man's name. I'm really not exaggerating- yesterday I sold a laptop to a seventy year old guy called Edward Cullen. On his debit card and everything. I hope he hasn't been pestered by marauding Twilight fans.
    • Edward is old. (Would you rather like to read suefic about Godric Gryffindor's daughter named Yazmyn? So totally not the old woman's name, right?)
      • Yes, I understand he's really over a hundred, but you'd think he'd at least have a nickname or something. How many supposedly seventeen year old guys insist on the full version of their name at all times?
      • What's wrong with Ed, especially since he calls Emmet Em and Jasper Jazz. A similar nickname is the least he can offer them for his horrible ones.
    • Old man's name? This troper's friend would beg to differ. And last time I checked, said friend was not over a hundred years old.
    • Mr. Elric would like to disagree with you. My problem is his last name is Cullen. The only Cullen I know is Peter Cullen, and the less I associate Optimus Prime with Twilight, the better.
    • There's also Charlie Cullen, angel of death Serial Killer (see WMG).
    • Old man's name? The Comedian wants a word with you.
    • I really like the name Edward and am pissed off with Twilight for ruining it.
      • Likewise, Bella ruined Bella (as in Bellatrix) for me.
      • And I'm angry that the the Devil ruined the name Lucifer, but you don't hear me complaining about it.
      • If you're not going to then, may I?
  • This troper recalls a part in the books (most likely 1st) where Edward talks about how humans aren't supposed to be able to smell blood. Er... but this troper can. A little, anyway. Bella's description about it smelling like metal or iron or what have you... So Yeah.
    • On a related note, it bugs me that they make a big deal about her being able to smell blood, and the fact that it makes her ill, and then they barely do anything with it. I thought maybe we'd discover how it was significant in the last book, as we did with her resistance to Edward's mind reading and such, but it wasn't even mentioned.
    • That part made me put the book down. People can smell blood, especially as it dries (I believe anyway). But Meyer also didn't take into account menstrual blood. Now that stuff can be freaking disgusting. Bleh.
      • But it doesn't really smell like the blood that comes from your veins.
      • This troper has a diminished sense of smell. There isn't a lot I can smell, I can walk through a garbage heap and be fine, I can't smell the catbox or my babie's diapers, or many things other people can smell. But I can smell blood. Ever put a penny in your mouth? Blood smells like that tastes. (Other things I can smell most people can't include glass, aluminum, and cyanide)
      • Yes but it's the fact the menstrual blood is blood. She wrote that blood couldn't be smelled by human and didn't distinguish what type. And it could have included menstrual blood as well as blood from the rest of the body. (At least in that book. She could have said something in another book (or at some other point in time), Twilight is the only book in the series I read all the through. Plus, I admit, I'm taking the "Humans can't smell blood" thing to the absolute extreme).
      • Menstrual blood is not only blood—it has other stuff in it as well. But I have no problem smelling blood in general whatsoever. It indeed has sort of a metallic odor, which I can sense even in small quantities.
    • Humans can smell blood. You'd think Edward, the many-times doctor, would know this.
  • Okay. Twilight Sucks. We all get it. I for one am sick of seeing the series rabidly insulted and snarked about in just about every trope. The fanbase may deserve all of it's bashing but the series itself is just crappy entertainment; nothing more. Why must everyone bring up it's obvious flaws and subtly say "this is the worst series ever"? Seems to me that when people bash something they don't like that is popular, it goes way beyond Complaining About Shows You Dont Like.
    • Well, the reason I insult Twilight (and mind you, I was a Fan a long time ago) is the horrific morals and messages it gives to the young and impressionable teenage girl fanbase. The series glorifies suicide, stalking, and abuse. It supports sexism because Bella never makes any choices by herself. Even becoming a vampire was decided by Edward. It supports child grooming and paedophilia. Imprinting is sexual in nature, because it's intended for reproduction. Child grooming is present because the young girls, like Nessie and Claire, are going to grow up thinking that they will end up marrying their werewolves. So this book makes things romantic that are truly disturbing and disgusting in reality. Myself and all of my (former fan) friends don't hate the fanbase, we hate Twilight.
    • The real reason is that the series has the general feel and chracterization of fanfiction; that when combined with how the fanbase is filled with crazed fangirls makes the series one huge, steaming, piece of Snark Bait. That and it's really fun to bash Twilight.
      • I've been there and done that before. But sometimes it seems to go beyond "having fun" and seems like just plain venomous hatred for something that the haters really shouldn't be wasting their time on.
      • I get happiness out of bashing it, so I don't consider it a waste of time. You can love it and I can hate it. I promise not to go looking for a fight if you won't. If the lack of good tropes annoys you, go and edit some yourself. I'm not going to do it, but true love tropes and such could use some examples, I bet.
    • If it was just a silly, ridiculous fantasy about vampires, this troper wouldn't care. What I do care about, and so do other fans, is what's stated above; the books have a sexist, creepy, and unhealthy relationship and promote it as romantic. Teenage girls are fed enough sexist and dangerous ideas as it is without this sort of book. You may think I'm over-reacting, but I've once saw someone on Cleo's Twilight snarkings saying how she actually dated a guy like Edward in the real world and he had a horrible impact on her life, and how girls should run from guys like him. When you have survivors of emotionally abuse relationships getting a sense of deja vu from Edward, it deserves all the bashing it gets.
      • Okay, so some people take Twilight hate very seriously. But I dislike Twilight on the grounds of it being a poorly-written series. I find the hate towards the series for "promoting bad relationships as romantic" no different from the hate towards Harry Potter for "promoting witchcraft as good" If something really popular seems to glorify something really bad, it will be seen as a threat apparently.
      • I concur. My main stumbling block is also that Twilight is very badly written. I am not much of a Potter fan either, but at least Rowling knows how to write readable sentences and present believable characters. Meyer can't write, so I am totally baffled by her success.
      • On the Twilight/Harry Potter comparism, let me break it down for you. Abusive relationships exist and are bad. I don't think witchcraft exists, and even if it did it, it wouldn't be bad unless the witches used it for bad things. Therefore, I hate Twilight, but like Harry Potter.
      • Let me break it to you witchcraft exist and catholics and christian things they are bad no matter the intentions. I love both Twilight and Harry Potter and the people I know that do witchcraft are on it long before HP books existed. I also have friends on really abusive relationships that hate/or never read Twilight books. I agree with the idea that by default everything that appeal to young people must be evil and damaging no matter what, according to some adults: Twilight/Harry Potter/video games...You name it.
      • Now, just a minute. Witchcraft in the real world is a religious practice, not the EEEEVVILLL Satanic black magic that the superstitious make it out to be. Wizardry as practiced the the Potterverse is not possible in our universe. Stalking definately is.
      • Hey I know that, my sister is into paganism. But fundamentalists Christians and Catholics conclude that the children are going to try to get to the closest thing to witchcraf they can get, just out of sympathy for the heroes on the HP saga, based on their own bias. In the same vein I had yet to meet a twilight fan that wants a man/woman to stalk them. They find it romantic/sexy/silly/stupid/plot point/non issue on Edward's part do to the context and the story. Its like someone taking serious all the "bite me" T-shirts. Hey, maybe some antis should try and bite some twihards, they will end in jail, no matter how much like Edward they look.
      • Exactly. Abusive relationships exist, and people do believe the things that Twilight books promote in real life, such as a guy is only controlling because he loves you, or that a girl's life should completely revolve around a guy, etc. Ergo, the book is fuelling real negative beliefs and impacting real people. The magic in the Harry Potter books is just a fantasy and only certain faiths believe that magic is real, but it obviously doesn't exist on the same scale. It's not really comparable.

      • Well, yeah. I can see that. It's pretty much the fault of people (and Meyer herself) for being crazy.
      • As something of an outspoken feminist I find the blatant sexism in the book and the material's support thereof to be painful as well. However, for how sickened I was when I experienced it in person, I don't think it holds a candle to the sheer horrors the concept of imprinting instilled in me. Narm aside, Twilight's open endorsement of child grooming and the quasi-pedophilic implications thereof is nothing short of disgusting. When God/Fate/Whatever tells you your true love is a newborn child that's when you start questioning God/Fate/Whatever.
    • I can't speak for everyone else, but I've been complaining about it because I recently saw the movie and wanted to kill Edward and Bella (He's an abusive prick and she seems like she's just using him to become a vampire) and people around me keep bringing it up. (Plus the fact that my girlfriend has a 10 year old nephew who wants to be just like Edward when he grows up so I'm trying to show him what real people think of guys like that.) Once it goes away I'll probably forget about it.
      • Funny, that was always what I thought of those two. Edward's abusive and stalker-ish probably 'cause he's a crazed virign who hates his pathetic sparkly existance and Bella is so dissilussioned with normal humans that she wants to become a "beautiful" vampire and stay with her "perfect boyfriend" (and is too weak to ever leave him) Ironically, that's how their actors seemed to be portraying them, whether it was intentional or not.
  • What bugs this troper is the fact that werewolves don't bite you and turn you into a werewolf! Everyones so up about the sparkly vampires, but the books ignore a key aspect of werewolf mythology too, which is perhaps even more important!
    • I'm actually going to disagree on this one. It's explained in Breaking Dawn that they're not really werewolves, just shapeshifters who turn into wolves. Actual werewolves exist elsewhere.
    • If I remember correctly, there are a few mythos were being a werewolf is hereditary. (The only one I can think of off the top of my head is the World Of Darkness games. And trust me, the writing in those is leagues above this series.) The reason people are getting up in arms over the sparkly vampires bit is because... well, it's silly and really out of left field.
  • This is going to sound kind of weird, but the series contains Fantastic Racism against humans as compared to sparklepires, and it's an unintentional example, because it's coming from S Meyer herself. My case is too long to post, but it's the first post here.
    • Check out the Fairly Odd Parents example on the same page. And this link because even though Fairly Odd Parents is WAAAAAYYYYYYY better than Twilight, they share several of the same flaws.
    • I don't care if you think Edward and Bella are retards, they are at least two retards in a world full of intelligent people. The Fairly Odd Parents world is entirely inhabitated by retards. There is no intelligence, just degrees of stupidity.
      • But keep in mind, Fairly Oddparents is mainly a bunch of satire meant for kids to enjoy. Sure, everyone is a retard because, to kids, people who act like retards are funny especially when it comes to cartoons. I don't think Bella and Edward are retards. If they were, Twilight would probably be a comedy instead of the "dark, dramatic," romance that people read it as.
    • This troper always thought this was just another way of showing who wears the pants in that relationship.
  • Is anyone baffled by the fact that Bella REJECTED Jacob, even though, that would be (well in this Twiverse) the PERFECT boyfriend? Hell, even Ed admitted it! But noooo...
    • If Bella hooked up with Jacob, and the next two books have Bella marrying Jacob and having a son together...everyone would complain on how much of a retard Jacob is, how stupid it is for a werewolf to sparkle, how Jacob gives werewolves a bad name, how Wolfs Rain and the original Wolf Man movie are better than Twilight, and how they hope Bella and Jacob's son would kill both of them. When it comes to liking this series, Failure Is The Only Option.
    • Except for the fact that Bella knows she's not Jacob's soulmate. Twenty years into their marriage, Jacob could have imprinted on another girl and left a forty year old Bella who can't go back to the first love of her life because Edward looks half her age.
      • But we all know Jake only imprinted on Renesmee so Ed and Bella could have their "happy ending."
      • God, just imagine if Bella and Jacob got married had a daughter and he imprinted on that child. Eep.
    • Jacob, who sexually assaulted her and broke her hand when she fought him off? Who threatened to commit suicide if she didn't sleep with him? Seriously? I'd take Edward before I took Jacob (emotional abuse and stalking vs. emotional blackmail and sexual assault?). Although, frankly, I'd take Mike long before either.
      • This troper was about to add a separate point asking why anyone could ever root for Jacob after his sexual assault of Bella, as well as his abusive, intentional guilt-tripping. Not to mention that a few chapters after the first assault, he assaults her AGAIN, and after a few minutes she decides she LIKES it! Rape Is Love much? Perhaps worst of all, after the first assault, Bella tells her father (who is a cop!!), and her father takes Jacob's side and high-fives him. I read that and actually felt physically ill. Edward's controlling actions towards Bella in that same book were particularly horrifying as well, but the assault descriptions actually made me worry I wasn't going to keep my lunch down. I am not exaggerating. (For the record, I read the books because I wanted to know what my friends were talking about, and yes I did finish them all. I enjoyed some aspects of the books, but I feel that Meyer has not portrayed very healthy relationships for Bella. I don't have a problem with a little dom/sub sexplay when all parties are consenting, but I don't feel that's what's being portrayed here.)
      • I think it's Discontinuity. Jacob fans still see him as the nice, funny kid from the first two books. Meyer is attached to the character, but she couldn't figure out how to make Edward look like a better option without turning Jake into a Jerkass rapist.
      • Definitely. Jacob was mortal, her age, liked the things she did and actually did them, didn't have a thirst for her blood, treated her with respect, didn't stalk her, and wasn't a walking icicle. Meyer knew he was hands-down a better choice, so she had to make him suck so Edward would look better in comparison.
      • I second the Mike thing. He's devoted, nice, sweet, and hasn't yet assaulted or stalked Bella. One could argue his following of her everywhere in school is stalking but considering he only does it at school and Edward does it EVERYWHERE and she still ends up with Edward, it's really no contest. The actor who plays him is cute, too—more so than R Pattz to this troper.
  • Seriously. This could have had some potential if it weren't for the mediocre (at best) romance, bad characterization and shitty writing. Why couldn't we have had the story of why some vampire guy would try to set up a family of human-like vampires? That could have had serious potential.
    • "This human-like vampires suck! They give human-like vampires a bad name! Blade is better than this crap! The main human-like vampire is a retard!", right?
  • This troper has heard the storyline of Twilight so much by the fans, why does she even need to watch/read it? The fans expect us to read and watch before we review, when they've already given away the spoilers to convince other people that the series is "awesome"... and that irks me.
  • Also, what's with the cults that this series is starting? There's no way that romance literature should have a religion.
    • So it's all right if it's Harry Potter, then? Ju-heezus.
      • That's the first I've heard.
    • It may not be the presence of cults so much as what they're worshiping. Harry Potter has the Power Of Friendship, a struggle against evil, a coming-of-age story, with a side of controversy over the whole witchcraft thing. Twilight seems to offer Unfortunate Implications, Family Unfriendly Aesops, and Purple Prose.
    • It's probably not the best idea to take internet cults at face value. Hell, Twilight isn't even the weirdest thing "worshipped": There's an internet cult based around the worship of David Bowie's crotch.
    • Indeed in this time and day is trendy to make cults of everything you love with the fire of two thousand suns. I for example joined the Church of Tetris. Because Tetris rules!
      • ...This Troper is interested in joining this Church of Tetris of which you speak.
      • Err not sure how to sent you the link. But (to quote Movie Edward): You can google it.
  • It just bugs me that apparently Antis and fans can't be friends . . . except we can. I have at least three very good friends who love Twilight and I hate it. We can heal the world, people! Even if I think Twilight is a steaming pile of abusive crap.
    • Seconded. It's as if some people only see really over-the-top Twi fans in their moments of fangirl histrionics and then assume they must spend 24 hours a day, 7 days a week like that. This troper can't stand Twilight as serious literature, slogged through the books for the innate entertainment value in reading So Bad Its Good/Horrible YA fiction, and still ended up leaving a sizeable dent in her bedroom wall from chucking the damn things across the room... and then can laugh, joke and theorise with the best of the pro-Twi fangirls. They're not automatically horrible people just because they have kind of crappy taste in literature. If both sides agree not to come across as pushy or hostile, we can live together in peace and harmony.
      • I never believed in the power of friendship until I reluctantly attended a Twilight release with some very devoted fans. We spent all night arguing the pros and cons of the series in genuinely civil tones, and when we finally got the movie home and I couldn't contain my cynicism any longer they started riffing the movie right alongside me.
  • The brand of Too Dumb To Live insanity it seems to induce.
    Anti: "I'm sorry, but Edward looks like a rapist on the DVD cover."
    Friend 1: "A hot rapist."
    Anti: "So you wouldn't mind if he tried to rape you?"
    Friend 2: "No. He's hot."
    Me: "So if a complete stranger who's hot tried to rape you, you wouldn't have a problem?"
    Friend 2: "No, as long as he's hot. If he's ugly, then I'd call the cops on him."
    • This is the male mentality to being raped by a female, so stop being a hypocrite.
      • Rape Is Okay When Its Female On Male?
      • I know many a man who should beg to differ. Rape is rape is rape, and it's wrong.
      • Uh, as a sensitive intellectual guy, I'd like to testify to the contrary of stereotype.
      • Whoa there, Captain Assumption. Unless you're intimately connected with the minds of every male on the planet, I'd like you to shut up and sit right the hell back down before you embarrass yourself again. "This is the male mentality bleh bleh nyeh bullshit bullshit." Who forgot to beat you as a child?
    • Out of curiosity - how old was/is your friend? I'm guessing school age, due to their complete and utter ignorance on the whole concept of "rape" (actually a little alarming, to be honest), but you never know...
  • So, is it ever explained what Bella tells her human family and friends when she goes from pregnant, to VERY pregnant, to having a toddler all within a few months? For that matter, do the Cullens stay in Forks? Because if they do, I'm pretty sure her human family and friends will start to wonder why Bella is suddenly perfect in every way and has some kid with her that is aging at the speed of light. Does she even talk to her family after getting changed? What do her parents think of her choice to get married and have a kid, without even a thought of college? Is there even a token argument ANYWHERE?
    • One assumes that the Cullens move around a lot, stick to cities with a lot of cloud cover, and return to Forks when the last generation has forgotten about them. Now that Bella's joined their cult, she'll probably do the same.
      • Sooooo, basically Bella gives a big, honkin' "fuck you" to her family then?
      • Yep.
      • Er, no, actually, Bella does explain to her father Charlie what's going on in a very vague sense. He basically says, in so many words, "I can tell that you've undergone some sort of insane magical transformation, but if you tell me the details of that and of your speed-growing baby, it'll seriously freak me out and undo my concept of reality, so please DON'T give me any details ... and I'll just pretend everything is okay." It's not explained how Charlie intends to cope with this as the years go by and Bella never ages, but presumably he gets better at coming to terms with her transformation over time. Having less information about her, uh, "diet" is probably for the best as well. As for how Bella explains it to her mother, this isn't included in the books (her parents are divorced and her mom lives across the country), but I assume a similar explanation occurs after the last book ends.
      • I'd still say choosing to be a vampire over living with your human family is kind of a big flip-off.
      • Actually, she decides with Charlie that her mom couldn't handle it. So yep, it's a big "fuck you," to her mother.
      • Besides, that's just her parents. Did she tell any relatives or friends what was going on? Oh right, human friends don't count after she meets Edward.
      • Oh, and the question of "will her parents care that she's getting married right out of high school, isn't going to college, and having a honeymoon baby"? Once it happens and she tells them about it, her parents completely don't give a shit about those decisions, which is TOTALLY OOC for them (it's established multiple times that they both want her to go to college and, you know, be responsible about her life/love/decisions/sex/not being a goddamned vampire/you name it). This complete about-face on the part of her parents is one of the many, many things that bugs me about the series.
  • Bad vampire: Go ahead and kill me.
    Edward: No, killing is bad. I'm better than you because I won't kill you even after you almost ate my girlfriend.
    Edward's friends then show up, rips the now-defenseless vampire's arms and head off and then set him on fire. No one points out the creepy moral dissonance.
  • Doesn't this story make about as much sense as a man falling in love with a cheeseburger that talks?
    • Now that I finally found the idiot who inspired Stephen Hillenburg to make the crappiest Spongebob episode ever, can I punch him?
    • You mean like this? <3
    • This troper described her views on vampire/human relations as follows— "Imagine trying to woo a ham sandwich. It can talk, but nothing it says really makes sense— it talks about how soft its bread is, how it's full of delicious meat and cheese and luscious, luscious condiments, but it doesn't make sense, because it's describing itself from the point of view of a sandwich. You have nothing in common. Sooner or later, you're going to get hungry."
  • Why does everyone keep comparing Twilight to Harry Potter? This troper sees little similarity.
    • Let's see:
    • Edward Cullen = Robert Pattinson = Cedric Diggory
      • Bella Swan = Kristen Stewart = Jess
      • Rosalie = Emile Hirsch = Jay
      • Twilight = Catherine Hardwicke = Lords of Downtown
    • People think the Twilight books are bad because they promote abusive relationships, reading too much into them. People think the Harry Potter books are bad because they promote satanism, reading too much into them.
      • This troper suspects that Edward is just really, obviously abusive.
      • So wait, noticing major Unfortunate Implications in books is "reading too much into them"? If a ship is highly abusive [and I agree with the above troper that it's really obviously abusive] but portrayed as the best couple ever, how does that not promote abusive relationships?
      • Uhh, sorry, but no. I'm pretty breezy when it comes to books, but even I picked up the major warning signs from Edward. Being unsettled that he watches her while she sleeps, follows her around constantly, continually tells her she smells so good he'd like to kill her, is not "reading too much into them". Edward has, and I'm not exagerrating here, all the attributes of a possessive, emotionally abusive wife beater. So, you know, have fun with that ladies.
      • Edward is a vampire: All vampires have a long tradition or watching pretty ladies sleeping: Angel and Spike did with with Buffy and Dracula is also fond of this. I think SM just changed the situation and have the girl liking it wich is just another change on normal vampire stories. Bella is constantly on REAL danger (vampires that cannot posibly be killed by humans and Werewolves that are unstable when young and unpredictable) and doesn't have a survival instict worth a damn so in this universe his actions have a reason and a purpose. On real life if a guy wants to kills you is a big issue in this fantasy world is just a plot device.
      • Don't recall when Spike did that, but his love was never shown as healthy. He was obsessive up the yazzo. To my memory, when Angel did it Buffy at least knew he was there (and I think it was before she knew he was a Vampire), in addition to the fact he was still in his "anti-social creepy stalker not-shown-as-mentally-healthy stage. He did it later, but that was when he was Angelus and did it purposefully to creep her out and let her know he could have killed her if he'd wanted. And yes, Dracula did watch women while they slept...and then he killed them. Awwwwww. Simply saying "this is just a fantasy" doesn't work when so many are holding these novels up as portraying the perfect romance.
      • Again being a Buffy fan I know a lot of people that consider Buffy/Angel the perfect romance and the same for Buffy/Spike. Even after the attempted rape and Buffy also forgave Spike for this and even told him that she loved him. I think I should say this is a vampire fantasy and that a lot of people love it. And the point of mentioning count Dracula is to remind you that the twist in this story is exactly that "Dracula" chooses not to kill "the girl",she watches which makes it a literary twist to an old story not a mind control device to ruin women/men around the world. Women are not that gullible.
      • Dracula was/always is a villain, so him watching over a girl while she sleeps is not meant to be a good thing. Considering when Buffy first did the deed with Angel he became psychotic, and they were on egg shells ever after, and how, as I mentioned, Spike was obsessive as all hell, people who believe their relationships were perfect are wrong as well. Just because another show/book/what-have-you does it also doesn't forgive it happening here. They may have been better than Edward/Bella, as both Angel/Spike were a bit more mentally balanced (which is saying something), but both are shown to be unrealistic in the end.
      • Of course Dracula watching over girls is bad that is why in this case is a twist. And the point of mentioning the other fans that shipped the human girl with the vampire of their choice was because no one demonized their relationships in spite that they did horrible things to each other depending on their stage of the relationship, the point is that is tradition on the literary genre . Also I would hardly consider Angel and Spike more mentally balanced than Edward or any other fictional vampire like Louis (interview with the vampire), Stefan , Damon (the vampire diaries), Bill or even Blade. They are vampires with issues that try to do good in spite of their murderous nature and that might fall in love with humans/werewolves/other vampires and all the drama that involves. The other ones are just better written and in this point in time less popular.
    • Hermione is beautiful, but everyone (even the fans) see her as ugly. Bella is beautiful, but everyone (including the fans) see her as normal/average looking.
      • Emma Watson plays Hermione. Are the fans suffering from Adaptation Decay induced blindness?
      • This troper remembers that the description of Hermione in the first book was rather bland. She had no allure at all until Miss Watson gave her some in Movie # 4
      • When you consider that Hermione is not the narrator of her story, while Bella is, it makes sense since Bella is basically the avatar for the reader(and the author) to project on to, thus even though Bella is obviously pretty, she remains plain for the sake of never being too beautiful for the female readers to feel as if they could never be her. I mean, her name is Bella Swan, it literally translates to Beautiful Swan. It can be considered an Ugly Duckling story, with here being beautiful all along(and thus the reader being the same).
      • Also Hermione never calls herself ugly, the one who calls her plain is Harry.
      • Harry is the narrator so we as readers should get his interpretation of her. Thereby she would be plain until Miss Watson arrived
      • Hermione is plain looking for the beginning of the book, described as having bushy hair and large front teeth with braces. She isn't described as being beautiful until the fourth book when she magically shrinks her front teeth and uses a hair product to straighten her hair (which isn't a permenant change)
    • Pattinson doesn't want to be typecast as Edward, despite the fans. Daniel Radcliffe doesn't want to be typecast as Harry, despite the fans
      • This is true for actors from every popular movie, eg: Zachary Quinto who did not want to be typecasted into his role of Sylar.
    • Edward and Bella can't have sex because of the PG rating. Harry and Ginny/Ron and Hermione can't have sex because of the PG rating
      • Ron and Hermione never once said that they wanted to have sex, albeit they had no time to think about that.
    • Everyone thinks Jacob is better for Bella than Edward. Everyone thinks Harry is better for Hermione than Ron.
      • Again not everyone thinks that. Some fans thinks Luna is better for Harry than Ginny, some people Think that Malfoy is.
      • Everyone I've talked to, who's actually thought it out, says Mike would be best for Bella. Everyone who actually read the Harry Potter book and took it at face value, knows that Hermione and Ron were pretty much moving towards this the whole time.
      • This holds true for any movie where there is a love triangle.
      • Ahaha, everyone.
    • Twilight owes a lot to Anne Rice and Angel. Harry Potter owes a lot to Books of Magic and Troll.
      • Harry Potter also holds a lot to every single book delving into the school of witchcraft territory. Also Anne Rice's Vampire Chronicles are memoirs. Twilight doesn't really follow regular vampire conventions
      • Bad analogy as most books released from 2000 onwards owe a lot to previous released books.
      • Every book owes something to the books that came before it. A common saying among literature enthusiasts is "There's no such thing as an original story," and TV Tropes itself is proof that everything builds off of what came before.
      • You could find books during any time period that owed a lot to other books.
    • All the Twilight books will be filmed. Thus far, we have two (or three) movies left to complete the whole Harry Potter saga.
      • So was Lord of the Rings, and the Bourne series, would like to have a word with you.
    • Transformation fetishists lust after Harry Potter because of the potential uses of magic (ie. macrophiles get hot at the thought of Harry using the 'Engorgio' spell on Hermione). Goths lust after Twilight because of the vampires.
      • More like Teenage girl lust, other people are more creeped out by Twilight than anything else. Also most vampire lovers hate Twilight because it is inaccurate depiction of Vampire lore.
    • Whenever the Twilight characters go, Paramore's "Decode" plays in the background. Whenever Harry Potter goes, the John Williams theme plays on the background.
      • Its called a character theme song, its very common in movies you know.
    • Edward Cullen, like famed voice actor Peter Cullen. Mafalda Hopkirk, like famed Argetinian comic strip character Mafalda.
    • Twilight is Summit Media's cash cow. Harry Potter is/was Warner Bros' cash cow.
      • So was Lord of the Rings, and Matrix,and The Bourne series, and Pirates of the Caribbean, and ...
    • Voldemort seems like a demon, but he's really a wizard. Jacob seems like a werewolf, but he's really a shapeshifter.
      • Last time I checked Jacob was a werewolf, and Voldemort was stated as being a powerful wizard from the get go, they never called him a demon. He just acted like one big difference.
    • Charlie is a nice and nurturing father figure, even if he is a little strict. Mr. Weasley is a nice and nurturing father figure, even if he is a little goofy.
      • Except their totally different in attitude.
    • Bella is really a stoner/tramuatized girl creating a fantasy world to keep sane/reality warper, even though canon says differently. Luna is really a ghost, even if canon says differently.
      • Canon says differently Luna is just an eccentric witch who has a tendency to be right, meanwhile Bella is just a superficial girl without personality with an emotionally abusive boyfriend. They're worlds apart
    • Alice is a vampire fairy. Remus is a werewolf wizard.
      • Correction Alice was a human turned into a Vampire, which is what gave her her powers. Remus on the other hand was a wizard who was attacked by a werewolf
    • The Twilight books get more unrealistic as they go on. Tthe Harry Potter books get darker as they go on.
      • There is a big difference between an unrealistic storyline and a dark storyline.
    • I can't watch The Messengers or Zathura without seeing them as "Bella in a haunted house" or "Bella in space". I can't watch The Boy in the Striped Pajamas or Basic Instinct 2 without seeing them as "Remus as a Nazi officer" or "Remus vs Catherine Tramell".
      • That's just you and your delusions
    • The first Twilight book/movie is called "Twilight". All Harry Potter books are "Harry Potter and the...".
      • Now I can't decide if your delusional or if you're just being sarcastic
    • The Cullens have their own island. Hogwarths has its own island.
      • Hogwarts does not have its own island, you can argue that the British Isle counts...
      • Hogwarts is in Ireland, isn't it?
      • it's in Northern Scotland
    • Everyone who loved the first Twilight book/movie nows hates the series. Everyone who hated the first two Harry Potter books/movies now loves the series.
    • The sucess of Twilight sparked an interest in vampire movies. The sucess of Harry Potter sparked an interest in adapting fantasy book series into movies.
      • Twilight was then end of a long line of vampire adaptations, Interview with a Vampire, Blood and Chocolate...
      • Um... Blood and Chocolate is about werewolves...
      • Mea maxima culpa, dear reader.
    • What other books did Meyer wrote, besides Twilight? What other books Rowling wrote, besides Harry Potter?
      • Stephanie Meyer's The Host
      • Well Rowling has written 7 great books, compared to 5 mediocre books that are more like fan-fiction than actual literature. This troper doesn't really see the comparison between JKR and Meyer.
    • Jacob's extended role in the Twilight movie sets the stage for much of the plot of the upcoming New Moon movie. Kreacher's presence in the Order of the Phoenix movie sets the stage for much of the plot of the upcoming Deathly Hallows movie.
      • the side character becoming more important later on in the series is a trope that shows up in every book/movie/TV series ever.
    • Remus is a good werewolf who fights Fenrir Greyback, an evil werewolf. Edward is a good vampire who fights James, an evil vampire.
      • Werewolf vs Werewolf, Vampire v.s. Werewolf they're not different at all
    • The Vampire Council. The Ministry of Magic.
      • Half of those weren't actually similarities [or else similarities that nearly EVERYTHING has, such as owing a lot to _____], a few just plain weren't true, and most of the rest are so abstract that I doubt many people would make the connection, such as the Jacob=Kreacher one.
    • I agree to an extent, I think the similarity comes from fandoms that are gigantic, bridge several generations, get a lot of media coverage, and are a bit batshit. I don't really think Twilight reaches the same extent of Harry on any but the last though.
    • Both series made a lot of money and are popular enough to get kids reading. They're also the two series that people who don't read will often put in their "Favorite Books" section of their My Space, aside from the usual smattering of titles that high schools often make their kids read.
      • Except Twilight lacks the worldwide popularity of Harry Potter
    • And the novels first hit mainstream at the same time as the hoopla surrounding Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows was ending. Massive amounts of Harry Potter readers migrated to Twilight and the spike in sales attracted a lot of media: it was the novel that beat HP on best seller lists, and JKR and Meyer have superficially identical backgrounds (housewife, mother, writer of fantasy series); its pretty much inevitable that the Media immediately crowned Meyer as Rowling II and started comparing the novels.
      • Personally, I get why the comparison is always made, I just think it's a stupid comparison anyway, since the series have very little in common.
    • on another side, every big kids novel nowdays gets automatically compared to Harry Potter, Stephanie Meyer just got the standard treatment.
    • I think we can all agree that pretty much every example above is really way too far-reaching and out there to be taken as a serious comparison.
    • I think most of the above comparisons stretch things. The series aren't really on par. One is from the perspective of a human girl who loves a vampire, the other is from the perspective of a wizard boy who has to defeat evil. Bella major issue is keeping Edward with her while Harry's major issues is keeping alive. The entire plot of Twilight is driven by the romance while Harry potter's romance is secondary or every tertiary to the action and intrigue. I won't disagree that they have some things in common, but one is a fantasy/pseudo-sci-fi romance while the other is a pure fantasy action/adventure/drama.
  • Could someone please tell me why Edward and Bella even fell in love? Their relationship is an infatuation, not love. They have no hobbies or anything in common, and the only thing they talk about is their "love" and the fact that one is a vampire and one is a human. I read the books, I was a Fan once (a long, long time ago), and I still have no idea.
    • I think is started on infatuation but again we don't know why Carlisle/Esme, Emmet/Rosalie or Alice/Jasper keep loving each other for over a century or fell in love on the first time. IMO they just were destined to be together and that pretty much sums it all the book. I think SM doesn't really like to explain love or its working or think that making sense is overrated on every instance.
    • Because Bella is a superficial, horny teenager, lacking in common sense, who judges a person's worth by how much they sparkle in the sunlight. Edward is a creepy stalker who wants to eat her. At least that's my opinion.
  • Bella is pregnant. Bella wants blood. Bella is brought blood in a sippy cup. Forget all the other plotholes, what I want to know is why the hell a family of immortal vampires has a sippy cup in their household.
    • They're immortal. They're also filthy rich. Honestly, if I had pretty much an infinite amount of money, besides donating to charities, I would buy SO many weird things. After all, drinking from the same thing day in, day out would get boring if you have forever to waste. ... What? It almost makes sense! although that might be why I'm getting weird looks...
      • So true. I'm sure they have a lot of free time and money on their hands and access to cable network so they can get silly stuff...Like the Cullen crest jewelry for example.
      • I think they have stores in Forks.
    • Sometimes Esme's baby-mania gets the better of her and decides that one of her "children" needs a diaper change and a bed time story. Edward doesn't like to talk about those times very much, probably because he's her most common target (why else would he be so fucked up?).
  • The Cullens don't drink human blood because they value human life/don't want to be monsters/want to live in peace/whatever, but when they bring vampires to their home in Breaking Dawn, not only do they let the vampires eat humans, they supply them with a means of transportation so that they can do so. This also isn't the first time they've housed other vampires as Midnight Sun shows us, so what purpose does not eating people serve if they are willing to not only house vampires who do eat humans, but are also willing to help them to do it? It's like saying you don't want to be a murderer but you have no problem aiding and abetting one. And they never bring this up.
    • The natural order of things is for vampires to eat humans, and the Cullens recognize this. While they, and Tanya's coven, do try to convert other vampires to "vegetarianism" when they get the chance (for instance, Kate wanting Garret to come be vegetarian with her), they don't push the issue - especially when they need the good will and support of their guests to convince the Volturi not to attack and kill them all. The Cullens describe themselves as vegetarians, after all, not protectors of humanity.
      • It's not the natural order for vampires to eat humans any more than it's natural for humans to eat humans. It's the killing of sapient creatures by other sapient creatures. Human-eating vampires are murderers and the Cullens are aiding and abetting murderers.
      • You fail to remember that they Vulturi rule the vampire world. If they were to go on a crusade to turn all the vampires into "vegetarianism" or kill them trying they will certainly will end up with a lot of enemies that might decide to kill every human on a 100 kms diameter just to sent the message, thus they need to play it cool so the other vampires won't masacre their little family. Now of course that Sue Bella is a powerful vampire and so pure and balanced and perfect that she might encourage them to actually convert everyone since she and her Mary Sue daughter engaged to Wolfman have powers that will destroy the Vulturi. And I did it again Twilight saga continues!
  • VEGETARIANS DO NOT WORK THAT WAY! Bears and mountain lions are not vegetables! Should have found a new word. Animalitarians, or something, if that's not already a word with some different meaning I don't know about.
    • I think I read it was supposed to be some sort of vampire inside joke. Still though, that always sorta bugged me.
      • I think when you are complaining that a throwaway metaphor is bad because it does not make 'literal' sense (someone please read the definition of metaphor). Hatedom has finally crossed the line into petty griping.
      • I (original poster) am not part of the hatedom just because I don't like something about it. I don't care if the first use of the term in the series was a metaphor, it bothers me that people (from what I've seen, people included in the series) keep using it literally, as though animals are literally vegetables to vampires compared to humans, when that's only even close to accurate metaphorically. If it's devolved into a running Metaphorgotten, they should choose a different word.
    • Its a metaphor, and its a relatively speaking a good one. Just as vegetarians choose to commit the lesser evil of harming plants for food (instead of animals); vegetarian vampires has to choose to commit the lesser evil of harming wildebeests (instead of humans) for food.
      • Butchers are statistically known to go insane from their job. If a normal person killed a pig with their teeth he or she would feel like a monster (The Twilight Vamps lack of necessity to adapt to killing could be hand waved by the fact killing is their nature, and they are monsters.). And I've also heard the word "vegetarian" used in discussion about Twilight on a talk show like it isn't a metaphor.
  • Two things: This troper's brother commented at one point: "If he's cold as the grave, shouldn't his nipples be constantly hard?", and second, "You fell down some stairs and through a window in a hotel." WHAT? Where the hell did she find stairs that opened onto a window, first off, and why didn't she take the elevator?
    • Vampires in Twilight are more rock then flesh and bone, so I guess his nipples, like the rest of his body, would be hard all the time (a corollary to that would be that making love the Edward would be the equivalent to making love to a frozen Popsicle). Also, many older hotels are built without lifts, and many stairwells have windows in them (speaking from experience, This Troper did once trip on a staircase, and the momentum of the fall sent me crashing through a glass window at the bottom of the stairs, fortunately, the window was on the ground floor, but it was still very embarrassing).
      • So, you agree that his nipples are always erect? Then does that mean he can't ever wear thin tops? It would look like he was smuggling raisins.
      • Also, that was a cover. It didn't happen. She actually got beat up by a bad vampire and blacked out for all of it so Meyer wouldn't have to try to write an actual fight scene.
      • Yes, I know it's a cover, but, still, her mother believed that? Really?
      • Apparently Bells is just THAT clumsy, which of course means in REAL life Bella would have been taken away when she was three because she would be going to school with cuts and bruises If your kid is so clumsy that a vampire attack can be passed off as a klutz attack, she would have to have been that clumsy for a long time. That means, even if Renee insisted she didn't beat her, the cops would have at least been watching her like a hawk.
      • She doesn't have to be walking around with a battered face all of the time, because a person doesn't necessarily have to keep getting that kind of injuries due to their klutziness to have a story like falling down the stairs believable. Bella might get a broken bone now and then; fell off playground equipment when she was a kid, etc. However, if it's that bad Renee should consider physical therapy for Bella.
  • Why haven't the crazy fangirls gotten the hint re: their antics scaring Rob Pattinson? If they love him so much, shouldn't they try to make him happy by leaving him alone like he so clearly wants? Especially after he almost got run over while running away from them.
    • On a related note, this troper wonders how it is that they seem to have missed all the times he's slagged on the book, if they're so freaking obsessed with him? Do they just try to suppress the memory, or what?
  • This male troper watched the movie (with the aid of Rifftrax), mostly to form my own opinion and half to redeem myself to a friend who called me out for slagging the series without ever reading it. Couple of good actors, terrible script stuffed with Unfortunate Implications, okay now I feel justified in making fun of the series. But here's the thing that really bugged me: I found Edward to be a sympathetic character. Yes, I found the creepy stalker-type perfect picture of an abusive boyfriend more sympathetic than the Too Dumb To Live female protagonist. The closest explanation for this that I have is that Edward was constantly telling Bella "this is a stupid idea, you shouldn't do this" — and even though he was "doing this" himself, he at least acknowledged it was a really bad idea. Is this feeling just the result of the kind of meta-Unfortunate Implication that everyone talks about (that the creepy stalker abusive boyfriend is portrayed sympathetically), or am I a sexist pigface?
    • Also, the Rifftrax makes the movie highly enjoyable, for anyone who was interested.
      Mike Nelson (as Edward in Bella's bedroom): What was our math homework?
    • So, wait, you watched the movie to make up for not having read the book? Not quite the same.
    • No, you're not a sexist pigface. Robert Pattinson is just that good of an actor. When Pattinson read the book, he saw Edward as a kind of pathetic loser who didn't get out enough, and played him accordingly. It was a definite improvement over the "perfect" Edward Smeyer kept shoving in our faces.
    • I think he had an advanced copy of Midnight Sun since that is the way Edward feels, thinking that he is inferior to Bella Sue. Which is more of fullfilment fantasy I mean what if you crush not only adored you but think of himself as too inferior to talk to you and that is the reason he is a jerk?
    • This troper actually did read to book so he could mock with authority (it was worse than he expected). The Rifftrax version of the movie soon followed, and I agree completely with the above troper. It was great!
      Mike Nelson: [as the Cullens rush onto the scene & stare in shock] Woah! Two dogs doing it!
  • Every line which sums up to "women are so silly." Edward likens Bella's anger to that of "a kitten who thinks it's a tiger." Edward constantly puts down or condescends to Bella because she's just so adorably naive. The only girl in the entire school who has thoughts which aren't catty and petty—You'd think after nearly a century Edward would figure out human adolescents are shallow and Bella is no exception—is Angela, who is the stereotypical shy, sweet pastor's daughter. I hate to break it to you, Meyer, but Louisa May Alcott already wrote Beth and frankly she did it ten times better.
  • I hate how this series brings out the worst in me. I get angry at nice people, I find everything I can wrong with it, and I spend hours looking for negative tropes to add to this site. Damn you, Meyer, and your stupid book that turns me into a raving bitch.
    • Agreed. Today, I wasted two hours reading this whole page.
    • I totaly hear what you're saying. What makes it worse is that we can't "just ignore it". How can you ignore something that's so butt-numbingly awful and yet so inexplicably popular to the point where it is shoved in your face constantly?
  • Why did it take the Volturi so long to reach Forks? Irina runs off, and suddenly Alice sees the Volturi arriving...in a couple months. Alice and Bella get there in New Moon in less than a few days. The Volturi are rich and should have capable transportation, and everyone is already in Volterra so they don't need to spend time gathering their forces. Even if Irina didn't have access to a phone, she could have run to the Voluturi within a few days. Did they get lost at the airport? Did they misplace where they had packed their wives? Did they take a stroll through Russia?
    • Now I want to read THAT book: 'The Terminal: Volturi Edition!' It'd be awesome, with Jane inflicting her psychic torture on immigration officials and Aro giggling over those turny baggage things and the entire gang taking up a whole section of the airport and creeping people out, but none of the humans say anything because they don't want to be Mistaken For Racist.
  • It really bugs me that, Edward, the white guy is seen as good even though his actions clearly indicate otherwise and he thinks about killing people all the time and actually has to kill people. While Jacob, the Native guy, is seen as a dumb, hot-headed savage even though—child grooming and guilt trips aside—he never kills anyone. This just seems racist on Smeyer's behalf. It bugs me even more that no one ever calls this out.
    • Well, not to play devil's advocate but, I think Meyer quite loves the Jacob character. He's definitely hot-headed, but he's not supposed to be seen as dumb or savage. Bella is Meyer's Mary Sue and she certainly doesn't see him that way. Meyer actually wrote a big essay defending him on her official site, and chose to write from his point of view before she wrote from Edward's. I think by the time she go to Eclipse she realized he was actually a lot more likable than Edward, and that's why she felt he had to turn into a jerkass, or more of a jerkass than Edward. Don't get me wrong, there's plenty of twisted issues in the book (including racial ones) that Meyer didn't even pick up on, I just don't think this is one of them. Also, Jacob is a modern 16 year old kid while Edward is an 108 year old who never quite caught up with the times.
  • Where are the editors for these books? Seriously, where? I could write off the thesaurus abuse and the poorly written dialogue and the weird things Meyer does to language, but there is a scene in New Moon that starts in the cab of Bella's truck with her and Edward kissing and then suddenly they are somehow in her house on her couch. What. The. Hell. I actually backed up a couple pages and read the scene again to make sure I hadn't missed the transition (since I'm reading the series because of "you can't make fun of it if you haven't read it" I was willing to concede I might have missed it since I was admittedly not giving it my full attention.) Nope, I didn't miss anything. I guess teleportation is one Edward's special powers now. . . I mean, for real, someone, somewhere should have caught a continuity error that big. That no one did shows me just how much the people who put out Twilight cared about the quality of the books.
    • And they probably never will. Look at the money it's made! It's just sad that the money people make off something rather than the actual quality is considered a success in this country.
    • They require reading it extra hard. And lord knows there're hard enough to read already.
  • Why don't any of the vampires actually do anything with their powers? I know that there are evil vampires preparing to kill vampires who are open about their powers (which is stupid, because really, what are humans going to be able to do against sparkly Superman?), but couldn't Jasper work as a mediator or something using his powers? Come on guys, I know having housebreaking sex all day is tempting, but with great power Comes Great Responsibility.
    • Well, I'd like to think a helicopter gunship or F-15 would make short work of a sparklepire, so the evil vamps might have good reason to keep thing secret, but I seriously doubt Meyer put that much thought into it.
    • I was thinking on nuclear weapons. Still I agree that Carlisle should be more proactive being the good guy and Edward already has a hero complex, so he should take advantage of that and have their family fighting the bad vampires.
  • I mentioned this on the forums, but think about Edward's traits - pale, cold to the touch, bitter, angsty, a criminal, functionally immortal, incapable of living a normal life, speaks in an excessively poetic manner and obsessed with his love interest to the point where he doesn't care who he hurts to protect her. Edward is Mr. Freeze if Mr. Freeze were horribly written and portrayed as a hero.
  • If the Cullens come across an ugly person who is almost dead, would they turn them into a vampire? I mean, they are all beautiful. Would having an ugly one ruin there image?
    • For one thing, they don't just turn every dying person they meet; just the ones they think are cute/interesting/destined to be one of their soulmates. The other thing is, it's strongly implied—if not outright stated; it's been a while—that being turned turns you beautiful so you're more attractive to your prey.
  • Can somebody please tell me why Bella has anti-psychic mind shields (or whatever). So, Ed lives for a little less than a hundred years, meeting, at the least, hundreds of people, and our little Anti Sue happens to be the only person who can't be mind read. Why? Is it Achievements In Ignorance? Or just an intolerable Asspull (My knowledge of Twilight was gained from an unfinished Lets Play of the first book and very detailed complaints on the internet, so please forgive me if the answer is already obvious)
    • One of the reasons Sparklepants isn't interested in other women besides Bella (at least going by the Cleolinda Recap of MS)is because he can hear all of their shallow, pervy little thoughts about him, right? Well, seeing as BD ends with Bella-Sue being able to control her mind-shield enough to allow Sparkles to read her mind, won't he realize that she's been thinking almost nothing but those shallow, pervy little thoughts about him? Considering that it was that and the (now gone) magical Freesia scent of her blood that made him attracted to her at all, haven't they pretty much just fucked up their marriage before it even started?
    • Oh but Bella is not stronger and prettier than Edward so they can switch roles and Bella will protect him with his ubber neat shield vampire powers and he will be the one in danger all the time since by vampire standards he will be the clumsy one. And I just laid out the foundations of the next Twilight Saga the first book: Sunlight
    • Now you know what would be funny? Edward mind-reading Bella's Purple Prose and getting annoyed at how bad it is to read.
    • Asspull, plain and simple. Meyer doesn't have the brain power to come up with a real reason for Bella-Sue's magic pony mind tricks.
    • I think I read somewhere that Bella had a private mind (whatever that means.) Still it would had been better if Meyer included in the book and not on her website.
    • ...THAT EXPLAINS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!
    • Here's a theory. Bella's thoughts are so vapid that they don't even show up on Edward's mental scanner
  • One the FIRST FUCKING PAGE, Bella whines about how she hates the cold and just lurves the heat of Phoenix. She then bitches about the cold for the entirety of the book. Yet somehow she's absolutely thrilled with her ice-pop boyfriend who can't even reach room temperature. These two concepts do not mesh, Meyer!
  • You fail English, Miss Steph. There are these punctuation marks called semicolons; learn how to use them. See what I did there?
  • James bites Bella and his venom gets into her bloodstream. Edward then sucks her blood, like vampires do, and yet somehow this doesn't add more venom into her bloodstream.
    • This is one of the few things actually explained quite well. Biting adds venom. Sucking just removes their blood and kills them.
  • "His face was teasingly outraged." How is that possible? What does a teasingly outraged face look like? In what possible way could Edward have moved his facial muscles to convey both teasing and outrage simultaneously? This is just like that episode of The Mighty Boosh where Howard demonstrates facial expressions like "Cornish Guilt" and "Grief of a Sailor", except there it's played for comedy and here we're meant to swallow it.
    • I just tried to do a "teasingly outraged" face. I think I pulled a muscle. It would have been much better, and much clearer for that matter, If Meyer put "He had a face of mock outrage." At least it seems like she was trying to show that whoever was being jokingly angry.
    • Thank you so much - it occurred to me that maybe she meant mock outrage, but from the context it really didn't seem like that was the case, so we're left with Edward pulling a physically impossible facial expression.
      • I couldn't stop giggling at this conversation and mental image of such a goofy face. Oh, the glee when I tried it out in the mirror!
      • Well, he is a completely awesome sparkly vampire. I bet a he could pull such a face that us mere mortals could not.
  • Mice and dogs have pups. Rats and cats have kittens. Tigers and wolves have cubs.
  • How big is the Volturi anyways? They are supposed to be the lords of the vampires but they only seem to have 5 people in total. How on Earth do they control the worldwide vampire population, a demographic not know for being peaceful?
    • "The Volturi" can mean either "Aro, Marcus, and Caius" or "the vampires from Volterra." In the latter case, they're pretty much uniformly loyal to Aro, Marcus, and Caius, partly because one of the members of their personal guard, who is loyal to them, has the ability to manipulate interpersonal relationships - i.e. enforcing loyalty.
  • Why would Renesmee age so quickly and why on earth would she have such a high body temperature? And if a hybrid isn't venemous how could Nahuel change his aunt into a vampire? Twilight fans, check out Wikia's wiki for The Vampire Diaries
    • Wait, wait, wait. Her body temperature is HIGHER than Bella's? What the fuck? If anything, a normal human and an icepop should make a lukewarm hybrid, not a fucking torch.
  • It bugs me the ads on this page are all for Twilight-related crap.
  • The idea that an older male can only relate to a female child if he's intending to bone her when she's old enough bugs the hell out of me. And he's like her father/brother until then? That makes it, like, incest-pedophilia.
    • I think that was already said somewhere in greater depth on this page. It got resolved when someone pointed out that the person a sparklepire imprints on doesn't have to have a romantic relationship with them.
      • Except it's a given to Meyer and her fans that said child will choose to be said adult's lover because "who can resist that kind of devotion?" No, she doesn't have to be the adult's future wife but it's anticipated, encouraged, and expected by everyone around her; this makes it still creepy and dangerous, not to mention sick. Incidentally, you mean the "werewolves," not the sparklepires. They don't imprint; they just have creepy stalker tendencies.
      • I think that is just Edward.
      • Oh, hey... Yeah. That makes it way, way, way worse, too.
  • It bugs me I didn't think of it first.
    • Although being male and not a housewife, my version would probably not be as appealing to the target demographic.
  • Ok, let's look at the facts. Vampires have an uncontrollable lust for blood . . . unless the want to be changed. In Bella's case, she wants to be a vampire like crazy. Thus, she easily ignores blood for most of the time, all of her senses are enhanced by a hundred times, she is absolutely stunning, and she gets to spend the rest of eternity with her wonderful family. Why the fuck would anyone NOT want to be a vampire? "Hey, honey! Let's have a couple of kids really early and then get changed! Then, when the kids are grown, they can get changed too! We can spend eternity together as beautiful vampires who live off animals." The only downsides are losing family (who can be changed) and not getting to eat food again. Come on, food versus perfection in everything you do? It's no fucking contest. Hell, several famous vampires chose to be changed in other works and they didn't even have the advantage of conveniently disappearing blood lust. The entire premise of Twilight is so stupid; there's no reason not to want to be a vampire. Sure, it sucks for the folks already turned and if you want to see dead relatives again, but why not tell the humans what's going down and let them decide for themselves? Oh, sorry, I forgot; no one is worth making happy except Bella.
  • Okay, New Moon trailer. If "vampires" are supposed to sparkle, why doesn't Laurent?
    • They only sparkle in direct sunlight, so if it's overcast he wouldn't be.
  • What's with all the fan theories on Edward X Emmett Ho Yay? Emmett's wife's most commonly noted trait is that she's hot, so it's doubtful he swings that way.
  • My biggest problem with Twilight is that it first promotes abstinence (abstinence is one of the biggest causes of teen pregnancy), and then has the message sent by her vampire baby, which is: Don't ever abort your baby because your baby can already think inside of the womb and looooooovvves you!
    • Forgive me if this is a stupid response, but how does abstinence cause teen pregnancy
      • I'm not the OP but I don't think actual abstinence causes teen pregnancy, trying to raise your kids to be abstinent causes teen pregnancy because they often have no idea about contraception.
      • Actually is the "just abstinence" that causes teen pregnancy. Abstinence and contraception policies do not.
      • Basically, if the only thing you tell kids is "don't have sex" and not, say, "don't have sex, but while we're here, here's some stuff you should use when you get round to it", when some of the kids do find themselves overcome by their libidos, they're gonna go commando, cause they don't know anything else. And then 9 months later...
    • Footnote here, but according to a BBC documentary, due to its exclusive reliance on abstinence education, Texas is "the torn-anus capital of the US", since the kids end up having anal sex to avoid pregnancy. Just a fun mental image of the consequences of abstinence education.
  • So you guys hate Twilight so much but lemme ask you this.... why do you all know so much about it? Have you actually read the books and seen the movies? If you answered yes...then Guess who wins? That's right...Stephanie Meyer and her publishers. And the film crew. Because guess what? For all you know, they're trying on purpose to write something because for some odd reason, you all buy the books, read the books, buy the movies, and see the movies. And you did just what they wanted...Congratulations.
    • Moral dilemna. Do I just pull this obvious troll entry, or do I leave it up so we can all mock it as it deserves? I can't decide. But I can snarkily point out that somebody's obviously forgotten about the existence of public libraries.
      • And the internet
      • And lolfans. Not all of us who mock the books disslike them. Some of us think they're funny, and crave more.
      • I, for one, got forced to sit through the film in a class. Never mind that having been exposed to it, we can now more accurately mock its faults.
      • Let's see: borrowing the books off a friend? Zero dollars. Watching the film on an international flight I would have gone on anyway? Zero dollars. Getting to throw it in the face of "fans" who don't know as much as me and getting to have valid arguments for why the series sucks? Priceless. :)
  • Renesmee grows extremely quickly and will soon reach maturity both physically and mentally. So how will the Cullens reveal her existence to society? And in addition, what excuse will they make about how Bella now looks so stunning?
    • My guess is they will claim to follow Carlisle's tradition of adopting, and say they adopted Reneesme in case anyone suspects that she looks a lot like Edward and Bella. Both can sparkle for the puny humans to dazzle them into buying it. And they will need to sparkle for Jacob since he is not going to age either. And about Bella looking so hot now? Well, she married a rich family. Plastic surgery is just the next logical step.
  • It just bugs me that some Twilight fans would ask Robert Pattinson to DRINK THEIR BLOOD!!!
The Tortoise and the Hare
« It Just Bugs Me »
Vampires
To sum up this entire page, this series just bugs us because this page exists and is huge, yet the author of said series still has millions of dollars and there's nothing we can do about it.

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