Suzumiya Haruhi - Television Tropes & Idioms

Were Haruhi to become aware of her powers, would she be capable of being usurped? Say for instance Kyon drops his John Smith bomb and then says something to the effect of "You're God but I'm more powerful than you are." Would Kyon then become a Reality Warper stronger than Haruhi?
Ok guys, I know that an earlier entry in the Haruhi Morality Stuff brought this up but was deemed "trollish" and deleted, but I'm going to bring it back up because I think its a valid question: Why do fans, when defending the anime against arguments that say that the anime has a garbled, plot-hole filled continuity,in large part thanks to the Anachronic Order of its episodes, to say nothing of the question of Haruhi herself as a likeable character, constantly cite material in the original novels to counter these arguments? This argument is one of the most egregious instances of poor reasoning I’ve seen used on this wiki that essentially boils down to “Well in the books, anime plot holes x, y and z make sense and if you watch the anime, you might as well read the books because they have all the answers, but the anime is still absolved of any criticism based on the flaws of its adaptation.” Back when the Darthwiki had its Complaining about shows you don't like page, someone on it argued that, as an adaptation, the anime is a separate continuity and if it has plot holes, then nothing in the books, no matter what it is, absolves the anime of those flaws and frankly, that’s a damn good point. No other reasonably intelligent fans, especially in anime and manga fandom give series they like this kind of a free pass. Seriously, why do you do this? I know you guys aren’t idiot otaku who only like this show because you buy every Haruhi PVC statue you can get your hands on so you can look at it and softly coo “mai waifu” to yourself, so what is up with the acceptance and constant repetition of this incredibly shoddy argument?
- The reason people cite the books to fill in plot holes in the anime is because the anime is going to have a second season which will presumably continue following the plot line of the books.
  - I understand that that's the unspoken rationale, but considering that it has been three years since the original anime aired and various signs pointing to the second season not necessarily addressing all of the first season's plot holes, I still don't think that there is validity in hoping the animators will vindicate this questionable argumentation. That aside, my point is that I never hear fans of this show saying "Yeah there are plenty of things in this show that don't make much sense on their own, we can understand people being critical of the anime as an adaptation in this regard", its almost always "The anime is awesome! What's that, plotholes? Well read the books, because they're awesome too!". Its like there's no ability to see this issue from the perspective of someone who isn't a dyed in the wool convert to the fandom.
  - This Troper honestly can't recall any plot holes in the anime, could you please point one out?
  - Perhaps plot holes is too strong a phrase as I'm generally refering to the myriad entries on this page where there are questions asked that nothing in the anime can provide a satisfactory answer for. But specifically speaking, I would cite the issue of the anime's chronological order/broadcast order ending. I personally find the failure of the episode immediately following the broadcast order ending to address its "cliffhanger" to be an example of exactly what I'm refering to.
  - There are a number of explanations, first and most importantly, the episode chronologically after the broadcast order ending was broadcast quite early in the series, and couldn't address that cliffhanger without spoiling things quite severely. Also, because it allows some mystery to persist over what exactly Kyon did tell Haruhi in the animated continuity.
  - I would argue that such an decision made by the animators sacrifices too much for the sake of the Anachronic Order of the show, which I find to be too gimmicky. However, at the risk of starting another absurd, tangential flamewar on this page, I'm going to make this assertion: there is no validity in using material from the books to defend the character of Haruhi against accusations that in the anime she comes off as a caustic, bullying, self-important asshole, and that those of us who do not like the anime for this reason are not on the hook to cut her some slack because in the book continuity, she gets better later.
  - And Luke Skywalker was just some punk farm kid who got lucky following the principles of a religion he heard about 20 minutes ago. Sure you could think that if you stopped watching Star Wars movies after the first one, but acting indignant when people explain the existence of character development just makes you look willfully ignorant. The novel and anime continuities follow so closely that there's no reason to assume they're going to branch on something as major as Haruhi's character development.
  - Just watch the chronological order, then. I can't recall any plot-holes either. And it's not a terrible to say "Well, in the novels Haruhi gets better". It doesn't force you to see it any different. It's just a note. If someone complains about Evangelion's ending without seeing EoE, you go ahead and tell him about it, don't you. The novels are taken as source because despite being separate continuities, the anime still follows the novel-plot and doesn't do much different. If something is left out in the anime and people point out explanations from the novels, this isn't a desperate attempt at defending the show, it's just pointing out.
  - I know I'm not the only one who can't stand watching a show with its episodes out of order, and while I accept the fact that not everyone who brings up plot points from the book is trying to defend the show, I think the sheer volume of unanswered questions brought up on this page alone that need material from the book continuity to clarify says something about the quality of the anime as an adaptation.
  - Oh, I meant chronological order. And no, it doesn't say anything about the quality of the anime as an adaption. The anime covers the first novel and random short stories from other chapters. If something is unclear in the anime but is explained in the later novels (which the anime didn't adapt), you cannot blame the anime. Well, you could blame them for not covering more. The anime still isn't officially completed, so I really don't know what your problem is. It's also called All There In The Manual and as one can see, quite a lot shows have it.
  - In that case its a matter of opinion. There's just too much All There In The Manual for my tastes.
  - This is not even a case of All There In The Manual. The anime, for all intents and purposes has shown you all you need to know. It has all the introduction and conclusion you'd need for the start of the series. Most of the questions here left unanswered by the anime are the ones that are not meant to be revealed during that stage of narration in the first place, and would eventually be explained in the hypothetical next seasons.
Why are people saying the art style of the second season is different than the first one?! THEY ARE EXACTLY. THE. SAME. I can't see any difference!!!
- After watching some episodes of K-On!, just take a look to all Mikuru's facial expressions in the second season. She turned into a Yui rip-off.
- It could be that you're just seeing similarities because you've been watching K-On. It looks close enough to me.
- Nah, he's right, at least during the Endless Eight arc. Whenever Haruhi smiled, it was as if Yui was cosplaying as her. Thankfully, that was gone by the time Sighs rolled around.
If some of the characters can hijack Haruhi's power, why don't they ever just use it to strip her permanently of her powers? She wouldn't be hurt. She would even be aware that she'd lost anything. And you take the universe out from under her heel, as well as the significant risk of her destroying it.
- Because Yuki still has the Entity's goal to follow. If Haruhi's ability isn't functioning uncontrollably, Yuki-tachi have no way to study it and complete their nonlinear evolution or whatever it was.
  - So the Entity has a death wish? Which would (and most likely will) happen when Haruhi becomes bored and kills everything.
  - The Entity has a goal for which it is willing to risk its life. That's not the same thing as a death wish. Presumably it hopes that once it finishes its evolution, it will then be able to safely depower Haruhi. Or simply be powerful enough to withstand her power, or escape it.
  - I'm not even sure if the Entity is affected by Haruhi's reality warping at all. Apparently, It's neither related to space, nor to time in a major way. It's so completely unrelated to our world that it cannot influence us at all. (Which is the reason the Interfaces were created, as a bridge). If I recall correctly, when Haruhi was about to destroy the world, the Entity was only concerned about losing its observation target, not about its own death.
  - That makes no sense. If the IDE can't affect reality, then how did it create the interfaces? Or are you simply saying that it's so alien that it can't relate to us?
  - The IDE is likely beyond human understanding.
- One of Itsuki's theories is that Haruhi is dreaming the universe. How badly would you want to wake her up?
  - Were I in the universe it depicts, I would kill myself rather than be subject to her mad whims.
  - Some of us believe reality is controlled by a deity far more malevolent than Haruhi, and yet we still live with it.
  - How could you be sure that death would place you outside her control? If she is God and created the universe, then she also created the afterlife.
  - Assuming afterlife exists.
  - If you believe there is no afterlife, then you believe that death = final oblivion. If so, then why deliberately seek it out? Life in a universe with the statistical possibility that you might get messed with by an unaware-of-her-power goddess may not be ideal, but surely its still better than total and permanent nonexistence.
  - Actually nonexistence would be much better than torture. (Afterlife is still life only after death.) Still, Haruhi's universe may be a little bit better than ours. (If ours is the case of no deity at all.)
- Another theory is that she controls all local probability, so no one stops her because she won't even let them try.
- When Yuki remade the world Kyon's retained all of his memories and was ultimately able to undo what she did, and the Anti-SOS Brigade claims they need Kyon's assent to return Sasaki's powers to her. That's probably not a coincidence and Kyon has stated he has no intention of letting any one else have those powers.
How is it that Haruhi is unaware of her power? How can one create the universe without noticing?
- Why not? It's an unconscious power. She doesn't have to notice what she's doing, especially if there's no indication visible to her that anything has changed, or if she just doesn't notice it, being focused on whatever her current goals are.
- The later novels seem to agree with Itsuki that Haruhi isn't really totally omnipotent, nor did she create the universe.
  - She has most likely also created herself, without a memory of being a god. Obviously she hasn't been in the same form since the creation of universe, so at some point she took the form of Haruhi, complete with fake memories. Or she recreated the universe so that she exixst as a schoolgirl instead of as whatever she was before.
- I don't think they mean she literally created the universe, as in there was no such thing beforehand. It means when she uses her power, the universe as they know it is either changed or in large cases, entirely written according to her blueprints. So as such, she has 'created' a universe. Also, even assuming she does something really big, the universe is wiped clean and redone how she wants it, why would she guess that she did it? If I wanted to find vampire ninja rabbits and I did, no matter how unlikely that is I would not assume I had created them. I'd think that they'd always been there and someone had simply finally found them.
Why is it that Yuki bleeds when Ryoko's knives embed themselves in her torso? Given how indifferent she is to them, she obviously doesn't need blood for oxygen transport or anything like that, and if the blood is there for "realism", a lot more should have been spilled.
- Because almost everything animated for public in television is softer than the real version. Censorship. (But sometimes they release the uncut one in DVDs). I hope this answers to every question like "Why is anime blood black?".
- She's in a human body, but as shown in The Day of Sagittarius, she can control it with much more efficiency than any normal human without rewriting reality, so she could probably identify any injuries that are not immediately threatening and ignore them. Using her rewriting power, possibly a "shortcut" that works with her body alone to reduce the necessary concentration, could have sealed the wounds as much as they needed to so as not to lose so much blood her body stops working. The blade-stick-things were shoved through her torso, so it would make sense for splatter and/or tearing at the entry and exit points.
Does Kyon actually spill the beans to Haruhi at the end of Part 6? The rest of the series would indicate otherwise.
- Answer He does; the scene is shown in the novels. She doesn't believe him. "That would be too easy."
  - This is why all three SOS paranormals are cast semi-accurately in the Non Indicative First Episode — Haruhi took the idea from Kyon's attempt to clue her in.
Why does Yuki risk drawing attention to herself by acting in an obviously un-human manner where outsiders can observe her? The other known entity of her kind seems perfectly capable of blending in and adopting the manner of a popular schoolgirl.
- Answer! Because that makes her more of a Shrinking Violet. I think nobody would really pay attention to the girl that just sits in the clubroom, doing nothing but reading all the time. Besides, she doesn't seems to have any friends other than Kyon, Mikuru and Itsuki. And well, Mikuru is a time traveler, Itsuki is an esper, and Kyon is Haruhi's friend. Think about it.
  - I was primarily thinking of the bit where she reprograms the game on the fly, earning the notice of the computer society president. Any reasonable person would think "no one human could be so fast!".
  - It is this Tropers' belief that any REASONABLE person would think "Man, that person sure can hack fast!". Surprisingly enough, jumping to the conclusion that someone is not human is usually NOT something a reasonable person does.
  - That particular incident is meant to show that Yuki is allowing herself to be herself, free of duty to Haruhi and normality.
  - Plus she was too busy having fun. Naturally I knows the hacker.
  - There is also the bit at the school festival where she acts as a fortune teller and makes extremely detailed predictions, which people should find very odd. The Weirdness Censor is probably at work here.
  - I can imagine Yuki accidentally predicting something to her classmates and said classmates squeeing over her "uncanny fortune-telling abilities", resulting in them casting her as a fortune-teller with the instruction to "predict the future". Literal Genie and all that. Of course, this is only speculation.
  - Well, the guy she was giving the fortune to in the anime did look like he was starting to freak out. Nagato mysterious character has managed to generate a large amount of fame, actually, and combined with the fact that she rarely speaks at all, it is mentioned in the novels that her class treats her every word like an oracle. So fortune-telling really isn't that surprising an assignment. Plus, she looks good in her wizard hat and robe (though she terrifies Kyon).
  - Wouldn't you be terrified if a girl like her put on her robe and wizard hat?
  - Ryouko tried to blend in by becoming a popular student. Yuki simply has another way of hiding. And Yuki's worked.
  - As for the hacking, remember that Mikuru spent the whole game wandering around uselessly. I always thought that the Computer Club President would assume that this was Yuki's fleet, accomplishing nothing because she was focusing on cracking the game. It becomes a tiny bit less blatantly superhuman then.
On a related note, why do Yuki and Ryoko Asakura fail to be thorough in their masquerade? In the case of the latter, the building attendant found it odd that rent was paid in cash and that he never saw hair nor hide of the parents who were supposedly living there as well. Yuki's apartment is almost completely bare, which would seem odd to anyone that would have to enter in case of emergency repair or the like. Surely it would be within their capabilities to have some other entities pretend to be parents, manipulate the banking system to pay the rent electronically and add some furniture to the apartments?
- Ryoko's masquerade was rather effective, at least until she decided not to go through with it anymore. I'm of the impression that Ryoko was supposed to be the one to interact with Haruhi, while Yuki was to observe from the sidelines, but Haruhi's hijack of the Literature Club room threw that plan off, and Ryoko was relegated to backup. As for the rest, I think Yuki knew that her actions would be considered odd, but not odd enough for others to notice. So yeah, it's weird that she's not more thorough in her masquerade in the beginning, but after she had established the "personality" she was going to use, it would probably be even weirder to change it suddenly.
- Hello? They're totally alien beings. Their masquerades are probably as well-considered as they can be from their points of view — remember that Yuki and Ryoko have essentially the same task that cultural anthropologists have, with the additional requirement that they remain disguised at all times. Imagine being dropped into Integrated Thought Entity world with a data-being interface you talk through, and are told, "Now, blend in absolutely seamlessly". Yuki comes closer to that standard than you ever could in an analogous situation.
What's with the focus on Kyon's mole at the end of Remote Island Syndrome? It's a mole.
- Maybe Itsuki has a mole-fetish. Or maybe the phantom killer they were talking about turned into a mole and hitched a ride on Kyon.
  - I seriously want to know though. :(
  - Answer: It's not in the novels, it's got nothing to do with the plot of the anime either. It's a reference to a movie, I think it was Austin Powers? Not sure anymore. Either way, not many people understood that it was a reference, and a lot of them thought it was genuinely plot related..
  - Well having mole prone skin is a genetic thing and which other character has a mole?
  - Wait, wait, wait... are you implying that Kyon and Mikuru are somehow related? Either there's all sorts of messed up stuff going on in the novels that I don't know about, or that was one hell of an Ass Pull, my friend.
- There's a WMG that says when the anime adapts Snow Mountain Syndrome (where, while staying in a mysterious mansion, each brigade member meets a phantom fake of another member), it will be a plot point. In the novel, Kyon realizes Mikuru is a fake because her mole is absent. Guess who Itsuki sees.
What's with the focus on Emiri Kimidori? Sure, she's cute, but an entire image album, and showing up in all sorts of related media and art seems kind of unusual for a character that was onscreen for all of two minutes of one episode.
- Answer The novels spell it out rather more clearly: Emiri is another (rival) Data Entity's representative like Yuki. Her "faction" is more like a neutral party than actively opposing Yuki's, at least for now. She also shows up more often in the later novels. As for her popularity, I'm thinking Ensemble Darkhorse.
  - I thought Tsuruya was the Ensemble Darkhorse. Or can there be more than one?
  - Is Emiri Kimidori actually popular? I figured it was the Kyon's Mole effect at work - executives trying to milk more money out of the series's popularity. (Speaking of the later novels, it's worth mentioning that Tsuruya actually interacts with characters and does things; Emiri Kimidori appears a few times, but when she does she's mostly just there.)
  - Emiri's popular enough to have quite a bit of fanart of her out there, at least. Not as much as, say, Yuki Nagato, but still substantial. I'm thinking that any female character in that series tends to be popular, although I have to admit I haven't seen a lot of Sasaki in fanart form. Also, Emiri does appear in the opening credits. I think her being "just there" is because that's her job (so to speak), while Yuki had her role subverted by Haruhi's (and Kyon's) attentions.
  - I thought Emiri was from the same entity as Yuki?
  - She's from the same entity as Yuki and Asakura, but not from either of their factions.
  - Just on the topic of Emiri, if you were to de-Engrishify her name, replacing the r's with l's, you'd get Emili, or more likely Emily. I know it reads Emiri on the image song CD, but I'm just saying.
Why is this show so insanely popular and dozens of similar ones are doomed to obscurity? It looks like, I don't know, a new Neon Genesis Evangelion.
- Because it was the right combination of elements at the right time? I love the show because it's the sort of thing I like, not because it's popular. If I knew about those similar but obscure ones (bit of a Catch-22 there), I'd probably like them too. Besides, prior to the anime, the novel series it was based on was also fairly obscure, at least in Western fandom. I generally try not to compare this (or anything) to Neon Genesis Evangelion, because that show has far too many connotations among viewers which are too difficult to predict to really work in a discussion.
- Well in any case it has something that Evangelion doesn't, in that it's just so dang happy most of the time. Oh, wait. That's a bad thing.
- The same reason any show is popular among a field of similar shows, a combination of arriving at the right time, being well executed, and well publicised. A significant part of it, though, are the characters of Haruhi and Kyon being well written and well acted. Without them, the series would have fallen apart.
- Character Design? No seriously, stick a picture of Shinji next to Kyon, Rei next to Nagato, Kaworu next to Koizumi and Asuka next to Mikuru, then marvel. Please say I'm not the first to notice.
  - You could make an argument for the personalities being pretty good expies too, although in that case Haruhi would be a better Asuka.
In the second part of "Lost Island Syndrome," Kyon falls from a short cliff, prompting Haruhi to panic and check if he's still alive. (I believe this happened only in the anime, not in the novel.) Of course, he wakes up a few seconds later, not badly hurt. What I've been wondering ever since I saw that scene is, was he badly hurt before she checked on him?
- You know, I've been wondering something else about that episode. Was the victim really still alive/was it all a game before Haruhi "realized" Kyon and Koizumi were the murderers, and maybe changed reality to exonerate them?
  - Yes, he was and it was. Haruhi did change reality for exactly that reason, but she did so by creating the shadowy figure that she and Kyon see on the cliff. (As I recall, that also only happened in the anime.) As Kyon points out, the murder was too bizarre to have actually happened without Haruhi making it so, and she wouldn't really wish someone dead. Kyon's insights into Haruhi's character are pretty much always trustworthy.
Why does Kyon ask important questions like "exactly what the hell is going on here?" to Itsuki and Mikuru, neither of whom will give him a straight answer, but never Yuki, who has been pretty forthcoming with answers the few times he has asked her something? (This question probably doesn't make much sense if you haven't read the books, I don't think the anime has gotten far enough along yet)
- Considering novel 4 onward, Kyon probably just doesn't want to trouble/rely on Yuki too much. He doesn't care what Itsuki thinks, and any excuse to talk to Mikuru is probably nice. Yuki tends to answer with a lot of long-winded Techno Babble anyway. Care to list any specific examples?
It is me or just because the show is (seemingly) aware of all the tropes and its usage, it doesn't mean that it doesn't fall into the same, tired anime cliches? Particulary aggravating when the show tries to take itself seriously.
- This is unlike any anime I've ever seen. Keep in mind how familiar I am with Evangelion. It uses cliches in the freshest, most unique ways.
- Any particular examples you have in mind? It's kind of hard to answer a question like this without any details whatsoever; don't assume your words speak for themselves.
I don't think there's any way Yuki's and Itsuki's theories about how Haruhi powers work could be correct. If anything she wants really happens just by her wishing it, well...
- Why would Yuki have to manipulate things so they'd win the baseball game? If Haruhi wants to win, shouldn't it be a done deal?
  - But they did win therefore what Haruhi wanted happened.
  - Not to mention what Haruhi may have wanted was Kyon to be pivotal to winning the game. He just couldn't do it from the batting order alone. Hence he calls in Yuki.
- Why would Haruhi ever have to complain about the heat (in some episode where she's wearing that bunny costume)? If she's too hot, shouldn't the weather change to suit her wishes?
  - Worth noting that as the episode progresses she's wearing progressively more fanservicey costumes and gets upset that Kyon isn't paying her the same attention he usually does to Mikuru.
- Why weren't they getting all the hits she wanted on the webpage?
  - They did eventually, and in the weirdest, most unlikely way possible (an interdimensional data creature choosing it as a breeding ground). Thank you for asking the question that made me realize the point of that episode.
- Why would she need to blackmail and rob to get a computer and Internet access? Shouldn't the classroom have contained everything she wanted?
  - Because that wouldn't be any fun.
  - Because while she is neigh-omnipotent and yadda yadda yadda, on some subconscious level she realises that life shouldn't bend over backwards to suit her will. Or, more to the point, she has to make life bend backwards to suit her will; it shouldn't just do it. Itsuki explains it better. Look below.
In short, aside from a few (albeit very weird and very dangerous) incidents, the world seems just as uncooperative with Haruhi Suzumiya as it is with the rest of us. What is really going on here?
- It might be explained by the scene in the cab where Itsuki is taking Kyon to show him a Closed Space. During that cab ride, Itsuki speculates that, in addition to her latent omnipotence, Haruhi has "a practical side" that realizes the absurdity of aliens, time travellers and espers, and that the resulting internal conflict results in the paranormal existing, but in such a way that Haruhi is unaware of their existence.
- In addition to the above, to quote Haruhi Herself, "because life's more interesting that way." If everything Haruhi wanted happened automatically with a hand-wave, she'd be bored. So instead, she makes Kyon do it or something.
- If you want to see Haruhi bending the world more freely to her whim, go read the second novel (the making of the movie). The subconscious restraint on her powers is significantly relaxed because she starts viewing the world as a stage for her movie. The cat still doesn't talk in front of her, though.
  - I thought that the cat did speak in front of her though (assuming that she was there on the roof when the filming of that scene happened, it's never explicitly mentioned) and then Yuki handwaves it to be ventriloquism.
  - Maybe her powers work the same way Jesse Custer's do...
  - Jesse has conscious control over his powers.
  - There's also the "Kyon Is God" theory: that Kyon is the one controlling reality and wishes Haruhi into existence to fulfill the childhood fantasies of aliens, time travelers and espers that his cynical side won't let him admit. He passes the role of Mystical God to Haruhi because he sees himself just as every supporting character does: a normal human. In truth, he's The Man Behind The Man, he just doesn't realise it. Thus, the reason that the world is just as uncooperative as ever is Kyon's cynicism and down-to-earth view at work.
  - That "Kyon is God" theory you stated just sent chill's down my spine, i always found it funny what Kyon and Haruhi seem so intertwined to the point that we cant tell who IS the main character here, Kyon could very well be the true omnipresence and is subconsciously using Haruhi as a decoy to avoid detection.
  - This troper has but one question: Why isn't this in Wild Mass Guessing yet? (If this isn't fixed in a couple days I'll probably do it myself.)
- Well, at least Haruhi made herself extremely good-looking, which is not that bad.
- To answer this and the previous top-level question: I'm not convinced that Yuki ever presents a theory of Harhui's powers that's understandable to us poor language-ridden earthlings, and I think it's fair to say that Koizumi and his Organization's just don't have a complete understanding of Haruhi's power. Koizumi himself says that "Haruhi = God" is the theory that the Organization is acting on because it's the "worst case scenario." This is a form of [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal's_Wager Pascal's Wager]]: you better worship God even if you can't prove that He exists, because if He does exist and you don't worship him, you might go to hell. At any rate, Haruhi powers are a mystery.
It's mentioned that before founding the SOS Brigade, Haruhi briefly joined and quit every single club in the school. Did that include the literary club (of which the only member was Yuki) and the computer club?
- Probably at least the literary club. It'd explain how she knew of a club with only one member that wouldn't mind her taking over it's space.
Is Kyon a player or just that laid back? At times in the anime, he seems to be attracted to all three girls in the S.O.S. brigade.
- I'm pretty sure he's just laid back. Despite all those perverse inner thoughts about Mikuru, he doesn't really seem to bother chasing girls. As far as the Light Novels go, they all seem to be hinting towards Kyon/Haruhi as an the Official Couple; the Yuki thing is more a 'friendship and/or teaching to be human' thing, whereas the Mikuru thing is blocked by that whole future/past thing anyway. Also, he's like a 16 year old guy surrounded by moe archetypes through no fault of his own. It's not like he's chasing them.
Speaking of which, how exactly did Haruhi get so Genre Savvy? Her knowledge of tropes would imply that she's been analytically reading novels and watching TV and movies for years, but she seems to spend most of her time trying to find things in fiction in Real Life. Did she just watch them a lot and then get bored with them a little while before we met her? Did she just reads all of this stuff elsewhere? (OK that last one is more like Wild Mass Guessing)
- Didn't she mention that she was bored, like, in the first episode? Maybe when she said that she was 'bored', she was practically bored of EVERYTHING. Including fiction.
This might be because I empathise with Yuki more than any of the other characters, but I was almost completely turned off the novels in the alternate universe sequence where Kyon has almost no regard for Yuki when he asks her to remake the universe as they both knew it before. Not cool, dude.
- To be fair to Kyon, it isn't his Yuki - though he says she's essentially just a normal (if shy) girl and she clearly seems to like him, that it's a different universe and all these people aren't his versions to me explains his small annoyance at her. She's pretty much a stranger. If you want to see his regard for his version of Yuki, look at him out-and-out threatening the IDE if it does anything to punish her.
- Not to mention she gave him the choice between the new world and the old one. And it's not as if he had no regard for Yuki when he decided to revert the world, he was very much feeling guilty.
- As he said, he wouldn't want a universe where everything looks "fabricated". Who wouldn't have that feeling? Keep in mind he told Yuki that "she could be the great detective next time".
- So, an altered world IS okay, so long as Haruhi does the random, haphazard alterations. A world Yuki CUSTOM TAILORS to suit Kyon, somehow, is unacceptable. I still think Kyon is an idiot, but that's me.
Why does everyone use the word "Esper" for Koizumi? The word is Japanese in flavor and "esper" itself isn't actually used in the entire anime for as long as I can recall. Why didn't anyone use "psychic" or something to describe him? Did one fansubber make a stylistic decision and everyone else followed forever?
- It seems to be a stylistic choice. The word was coined by Alfred Bester and used to refer to people with psychic or paranormal abilities (used first in a short story, Oddy and Id and later in The Demolished Man). Nevertheless, it's an appropriate word to describe Koizumi, so I don't see a problem with it.
- Are you sure that ESPer/esper isn't used in the anime? Because the novels use it constantly—or, at least, Baka-Tsuki's translation of them, anyway...
  - The word "esper" is not used in the Japanese script (Haruhi's line is, I think, "chounouryokusha" which means "psychic person/super brain power person"). It's probably not in the original Japanese novels either (The fan translation project didn't take off until after the anime, so they just as likely followed the fansub). "Psychic" in most English fiction just implies mind reading/clairvoyance, wheras Espers in Bester's work were a bit broader based, so that's probably a better referece.
- In the sixth episode (chronologically) and the seventh chapter in the first novel, Kyon refers to Koizumi as "Shounen esupaa sentai (Squad of esper boys.)" Besides that, I think he uses "esupaa (esper)" a few other times in the novels.
- Even worse than the word esper is the use of the word Slider which is never given a meaning in the novels, and not even used in the anime (that I remember) all of the WMGs relating to it suggest its supposed to be a dimensional traveller but the only other place I have heard it being used like that is in Sliders I wouldn't think bad North American Sci-Fi and Japanese Light Novels have that cultural overlap.
  - Again, the Japanese text uses "isekaijin", or other-world person. it's pretty clearly talking about someone who travels between parallel worlds, which is a pretty common sci-fi trope. "Slider" is used for brevity.
Okay, I can understand Haruhi not realizing she's God. But seriously...you'd think that she would have realized by now that something's up with her personally. I mean, seriously...she's incredibly skilled at just about anything she tries, extremely athletic, and has random outbursts of downright absurd luck. Shouldn't she have noticed?
- At fifteen? Do you remember what successful people are like at fifteen?
  - Not really, no. I was a reclusive Captain Failure at fifteen. That aside, though, I would think that the same common sense keeping her from making Crazy World would have noticed "hey, wait a minute, I just learned to play guitar like an expert in fifteen minutes, isn't there something wrong there?"
  - Haruhi has no frame of reference though. She doesn't know that no-one else can learn guitar in fifteen minutes (and the only other person she's seen try is Yuki...)
  - That would explain why she expects the brigade-members to behave like Kamina 2.0 when dealing with something. What do you mean you're exhausted?
  - Plus, I don't think it's ever been so egregious as that. In fact, in the twelfth episode when she did play guitar she commented that she wasn't able to learn the songs in time for the show and had to just play the main chords. It seems to me that she's an especially talented person, but she does have to put effort into learning new things.
  - Who said Haruhi learned to play guitar in fifteen minutes? She already knew how to play a guitar.
I'm thinking.. Could Haruhi be considered a misanthrope? She doesn't seem to care about normal persons at all, to the point that she's comfortable with changing her uniform in front of her male classmates. She also behaves rude to people who are trying to be friendly, which would indicate that she also doesn't like humans.. Well, like Kyon said, she views other people the same way as potatoes. In the climax of the anime, it seems like Kyon is the only one she actually cares for. The only one: She didn't care for the brigade (and her 'friends') anymore, the second she saw the shinjin. Feels like Haruhi is a misanthrope, to me (Which would make her cooler, ha!)
- Which brings up another question: why does anyone like Haruhi? She's an incredible jerkass who doesn't consider anyone else's feelings, even sexually molesting one of her supposed "friends" without suffering any consequences. And despite this, I meet person after person who tells me what a fun, likable character she is. Are you all blind slaves to moe, or just living out your personal hate fantasies vicariously? Or perhaps you're just really thick.
  - Well, I don't know about everyone else, but I feel more sorry for her than anything else. She's been given a perfect life by her powers, and thus never gained any experience, so she feels empty. When she's forced to let circumstances change herself rather than her changing the circumstances, she grows into a better (even if not normal) person. Personally, I did not like Haruhi until she showed signs of redemption. Just to stress, fans don't like Haruhi at the beginning, they like her when she's changing.
  - It's just that Haruhi makes gray, boring everyday life around her fun. A good quality by itself, enough compensate for having to do a lot more than one usually does. Hell, some people are willing to go into a whole different world and risk their lives just because our life is that boring.
  - Agreed. She's such an interesting person that we can forgive her being a jerk to some extent. Of course, sexual molestation goes beyond that acceptable limit... I for one felt a lot better when Mikuru's older self showed up and reminisced about all the good times she'd had in the SOS Brigade. So I guess Haruhi treats Mikuru pretty well when the cameras aren't rolling. Plus, it seems pretty clear that Haruhi is, in her own bizarre way, just goofing around, and doesn't intend to scar Mikuru for life.
  - In reference to why the fans would like her, it's the same reason why people like Tsundere characters, despite that most likely being an incredibly frustrating and emotionally draining personality type in real life. The fact that she's not very endearing and affectionate (at least not in traditional ways) makes those times when she is all the more rewarding. The greater the effort, the greater the payoff.
According to Yuki there are four factions in the Entity: Moderates, Innovative, Compromise, and Thinking. So which factions do each of the interfaces represent?
- I'd think Yuki belongs to "Thinking". Her boss appears to be neutral and logical.
- Ryouko is probably "Innovative". Given the choice, she favors action over inaction, and "innovative" is just a polite word for "radical".
The theory that Kyon is the real god. It fucking annoys me. It doesn't even make that much sense. But, more importantly.. Why, why, why are people treating it like it's some piece of soon-to-be canon that is so obviously going to happen? Me personally, I think the point of Kyon is that he is actually normal. If he'd just get some pimped up power, this wouldn't make much sense. I've found some inconsistencies with the theory anyway, but I don't remember them anymore. But that's not what I care about, I'm just so annoyed that I see this theory everywhere, everwhere. Really, like it's some soon-to-be canon.
- I guess people like to think they've figured out a big plot twist ahead of time. It's an amusing thought but really makes far less sense than Haruhi being the real god, as advertised.
- I think its just that it's an interesting theory and some things do loosely fit, such as Kyon having secretly wanted those things to be real too. I independently thought of the theory myself when watching the anime, though I'm not so behind it now and I certainly don't think of it as soon-to-be canon. I am curious about the inconsistencies you mention though.
- People are treating it like it's so obviously going to happen because... it seems like it's so obviously going to happen. It makes a lot of sense. Also the novels seem to favour it more (both in the later adventures and in that e.g. the shadow on the island, which would seem to shoot this theory down, isn't present in the novels).
- Personally, I think a lot of the story, especially the John Smith bit, becomes farcical and loses all its dramatic punch if Kyon is really the god. But besides that...why does it make a lot of sense? I don't see anything that particularly supports it, and although Kyon clearly prefers his crazy life to a mundane one, if he was really calling the shots the excitement would probably manifest in a way that didn't exasperate him so much.
Why do most people assume that Koizumi is correct about the universe being created three years ago when Haruhi, Nagato, and Sasaki all refer to events prior to July 7, 2007.
- Those events were Ret Cons. There may have been a universe before 07/07/07, but it's been overwritten by Haruhi's and only exists where it serves to fill in details she isn't interested in.
- Besides, if the entire universe was destroyed then remade with changes including everyones memories being retroactive...how would YOU know? Does it really make a difference if it has been or not, then?
  - Unless someone has Ripple Effect Proof Memory, there is no way of knowing. But the only characters who demonstrated this trait are Nagato&co and Kyon. And this ability failed them as often as not. Integrated Data Entity is likely to have been created by Haruhi at 07/07/07, and Kyon is not particularly reliable.
- I think most people go with it because they're just not skeptical enough of Koizumi, and it's the only explanation presented in the anime so far. The first season of the anime doesn't really do a lot to cast doubt on the Organization's theory about Haruhi, as told by Koizumi to Kyon. The novels do so, and the anime will likely pick this up in the second season.
- It's also mentioned that the people of the future can't travel back in time before past 07/07/07, because the timeline may start at that date.
In the chapter "Melancholy of Mikuru Asahina", Mikuru and Kyon go out alone to save some kid. When Haruhi, Nagato and Koizumi find out that they went out on their own, they are relatively justifiably angry for their own reasons. (Koizumi because Haruhi could erase the world, Nagato for the same reason and also because she was just left there without explanation and Haruhi for not being informed and also all three for their "fascination" with Kyon) Now all of this could have been avoided if they just took Nagato or Koizumi along. Or even Tsuruya! Heck, Mikuru didn't even have to bring Kyon, just any person who can save a kid's life. Heck, even bringing Haruhi along could have been a better idea. Bringing Kyon alone is the WORST idea she could have had. The only benefit to her it brings is that it could have brought them closer together when she KNOWS that they can't have a romance in the first place.
- Mikuru didn't seem to know they were there to save that kid until it happened, only that she had to bring Kyon. Unless she's completely full of crap about everything (possible but not likely at this point) her superiors aren't in the habit of explaining themselves to her. When ordered to bring Kyon there, it makes a certain degree of sense not to bring the others too, in that doing more than she was ordered to could cause unforeseen problems.
  - If she doesn't bring Kyon along, he can't get creamed by a van. I do not trust her.
Might be better suited to WMG, but bringing it up here for now: Whose hand is Haruhi grabbing onto at the beginning of the OP?
- I would say it's Kyon's, since he "pulls" her out of her melancholy.
- Always kinds thought, it was god.
  - That's what I thought, too...until Fridge Logic hit and I remembered that she is God.
  - According to Koizumi. The book specifically mentions that that belief is not held by Mikuru nor Yuki and even Koizumi states his doubts about it. In any case, it could still be God, passing on the baton just for the lulz.
  - It could be Haruhi's "higher self". She's basically an avatar of God, since God itself is a too great and incomprehensible thing to directly interact with the mortal world. The concept is present in at least a couple of major religions, so it's not like there isn't a precedent.
  - I always thought that this was supposed to be a variation of Sistine Steal.
  - The official answer is "No idea, but it's probably Foreshadowing." Personal pet theory? It's Kyon, and judging by Haruhi's age and the look in her eyes, this is Tanabata three years ago. Time Travel is great for WMGs, eh?
If what Haruhi wants becomes reality, why doesn't Kyon pay her more attention? Such as the final (broadcast order) episode of the anime where her clothes get skimpier and skimpier throughout. The only thing I can think of is that the kiss worked because she was remaking reality so that he DID like her, and so the kiss satisfied her that doing so wasn't needed... only she doesn't realize it actually happened.
- Haruhi's reality warping abilities are based on her beliefs not her desires. Even then their seems to be restrictions on how much her belief affects reality. For instance she doesn't believe any of the members of the SOS Brigade are aliens, time travelers, or espers, but they are. Also, Sasaki has espers, despite not having believed in them when she had her powers.
  - Um, the implication throughout the story is that she invented espers at the very least and probably the others as well (not that they would admit it). She doesn't believe in them either which does act as a limiter so that they are uncommon. So it's based on what she wants. If her beliefs controlled reality entirely, there wouldn't be any aliens, espers, time travelers, talking cats etc.
  - Espers are the one thing that Haruhi definitely didn't invent since Sasaki had them first.
  - How so? Koizumi notes that all the espers got their powers instantly knowing they came from Haruhi. Sasaki, even if she really was a reality warper, is noted as someone who wouldn't change anything ever. She doesn't want the world to be special. The esper on her team was not created by her, she simply disagrees with Koizumi and the espers of his faction about what to do with Haruhi. The other two groups were also possibly around before Haruhi made them as they do not associate Haruhi with their own existence, leaving it implied that she might have made them or she might have just drawn them to her.
  - Kyoko notes that she instinctively knew her powers came from Sasaki.
- Maybe it's because Kyon is defined as "stone so heavy God can't lift it"? After all, Kyon seems to be the only person who can stop Haruhi. "Kyon is God" theory fits here perfectly as well.
- Maybe she can't fuck with people's free will, or doesn't want to. That's what I've always assumed.
When Yuki rewrote reality why did she remove the classroom that Koizumi had used from existence.
- so that there would be some boys going to the previously all girls school, and to make Koizumi one of them.
  - Kyon says Koizumi's homeroom "was a class for those interested in the Science and Mathematics Field, so it was naturally comprised of sharp-witted know-it-alls who did nothing but study". In novel four Kouyouen was apparently the best school in the area so it would seem obvious that those students would go there.
@ the entire series: What the hell am I looking at?
- It's a series about a girl with mysterious, god-like powers. What else?
  - What do you see?
  - I see an old lady with mysterious god-like powers.◊
Why doesn't Haruhi recognize Kyon from the time he helped her draw that message on those school grounds? It could not have been that dark, since there was obviously enough light for them to see what they were doing. Haruhi also got a good glimpse of Mikuru and she is by no means stupid. I consider this quite a plot hole.
- It's not dark enough to make them invisible, no. But it is dark enough to obscure faces and features. She also didn't pay Mikuru much attention. As for Kyon, she does ask if she knows him, probably based off his voice and speaking patterns. But he completely honestly gives a negative. Also, why would they still be the same age three years later, and still attending the same school? The idea probably crossed her mind but she went Meh, it just doesn't work out and he has no idea what I'm talking about anyway. Plus, Kyon at the beginning is much more oppositional than he was as 'John Smith.'
This is probably just my lack of research on the subject, but where exactly does Itsuki say that he acts gay to trick Haruhi just in case she's a yaoi fangirl? I don't recall anything of that sort being said and people throw that line around.
- Is it? I thought it was all WMG. Then again, I haven't been able to get hold of the novels, but I doubt it's there, either.
  - Check the novels on baka-tsuki. But seriously, does anyone know? I'm getting suspicious that the line isn't anywhere in the books and someone just said it was. Then, everyone quoted that person.
  - Same here. The last time This Troper read the novels was quite a while ago, but she doesn't remember that line either. Although she might have just missed it, seeing how everyone else treats it as a given?
  - There is no line saying Haruhi wants Koizumi to be gay, but there is one where he says that he puts on a facade as that's how Haruhi imagined him. Seeing as Haruhi doesn't know about Koizumi being too impersonal with Kyon it's unlikely she thinks he's gay. It more likely to be his actual personality coming out whenever it has the chance to.
  - This Troper took that line to mean that Koizumi adopted a Stepford Smiler facade as that's what Haruhi expects of the New Transfer Student, and didn't see any specific reference in that line to suggest that it's about his Ambiguously Gay behaviour being put on for Haruhi's benefit.
Anyone else find it odd just how powerful Koizumi's organization is for a group that only formed three years ago? I mean, I know we're not getting the whole story story from Koizumi (like we ever do), but it feels like it is missing something.
- How are they powerful? There's clearly lots of infighting and they don't seem to have many extraordinary resources. Patrons like Tsuruya's family could easily cover the expenses we've seen.
I can't be the only person Mikuru pisses off. I get that she's playing the Moe character to win Kyon over to her side and maybe it's cause I'm only on Book 3 but Jesus CHRIST she grates my nerves. I guess i'm just different from Kyon because I hate people who act weak and pathetic in any situation, the ones who let themselves be lead around. I realized how much I dislikes her around the baseball chapter when she was just letting the balls go, not BECAUSE she was letting them go but because she just dropped to her knees whimpering. Is their EVER an explanation to her doing this outside of A. winning Kyon to 'her' side or B. Really being THAT weak and pathetic
- If it makes you feel any better, count the number of times that Kyon trusts her or relies on her. Seems like the audience isn't the only one to notice that she's a bit of a flat character... not that he minds really.
- I think Mikuru's Character Development is pretty interesting, actually. Why? Because we get to see early on that Future Mikuru is not like Present Mikuru (and this will become even clearer in season 2). We know that Present Mikuru is going to stop being a helpless Moe-blob and become the adult that we see, who is absolutely essential for Kyon's handling of the events. But we don't know is how that is going to happen.
- That is not character development. She hasn't moved in the direction of being a self confident adult yet. We're simply told that she becomes Asahina (big) instead of the one we know. We don't even know for sure she really is the same person. And isn't the tenth novel going to be the last one?
  - Read "The Melancholy of Mikuru Asahina", one of the shorts. From then on, she sincerely believes that she is here for a reason, and that she can do important things.
  - The one where they save the kid who invents time travel? How so? She follows her orders, has no idea what's going, Kyon saves the kid, she lectures him then lets him go and then she cries because she has no idea what is going on. Does she really show a spine at any time here? Maybe she shows that she wishes she weren't so easy to walk all over? Still not character development, we knew that the first time Haruhi groped her.
- I'm with you on this one. Mikuru is supposed to be moe to a fault, like her whining and crying is supposed to make her attractive or something. If so then Otaku are even weirder than I thought. Not even her Gainaxing can keep her from annoying the hell out of me.
I just have to say this. Who puts their digital pornography on the desktop these days?! The hidden folder flag would have been a clever trick in 1999, but these days we have flash drives, password protection, and several more reliable ways to keep files out of reach that I'm sure any of the computer-literate characters could have come up with on their own. What An Idiot.
Who's the adviser for the Literature Club?
- Someone who's been sent to observe, but would rather read her books in peace without hearing "So. Whatcha reading?"
Just finished the third consecutive episode of "Endless Eight" and I have to say what the hell, Kyoto Animation?! It wouldn't be so bad if they actually resolved anything, but no, it was the exact same thing as last week with five new lines of dialogue. Which means they'll just do it AGAIN next week. This is beyond cheap. They had three years to make a new season and they give us this cop-out? I'm sure they'll have plenty of material left for season 3, but to paraphrase Kyon: "If this anime is just going to repeat itself, than what's the point in watching it?"
- I think its probably so we can sympathize with Yuki, we only had to go through 3 episodes of the same 30 minute episode while Yuki had to go through the same week 15,499 times. Still, it grates on my nerves as well. If they don't solve it soon they are going to lose fans, fast. They could have done away with the repeat episode after 3 since the second showed the actual episode and the third showed yes they are in a loop. I just hope it isn't going to go through Eight episodes of it, hence the title.
  - Then it's certainly working, I feel more and more like smashing my head in the desk with every new episode.
- They are probably Non-Canon. We will know in October, when the DV Ds get announced.
- Yeah, the repetion is probably for our sympathy for Yuki. But I think "8" in the title is actually refering to the smybol for infinity (a horizontal 8) and the month August (it's the 8).
- We should have expected this. First season, everything's in Anachronic Order. Second season, a bunch of episodes are nearly identical. Did you think they'd do things different this time around?
  - There's a minor difference between shuffling episodes around (which they fixed in the DVD release anyway) and wasting half a freakin' season on a single-chapter-long side story, which was not all that interesting to begin with.
- I wonder, what they are going to do to the Disappearance episodes... Making them "Disappear" by just stop playing the episodes right in the middle and never mention them again?
- Guys I figured it out. After the fourth episode not resolving anything, it became clear. We're all stuck in the same time loop as the SOS Brigade! We'll be watching this boring crap forever. But seriously, at least five episodes on this plus bamboo leaf rhapsody? Needs more filming of the movie if they want to waste multiple episodes showing people what they don't want to see.
- Is this troper really the only one who gets the joke? I am having a lot of fun analyzing the differences between the episodes. Kyo Ani is putting in a lot of hints to the solution of the problem, for instance the toy airplane which even appears on Mikuru's shirt at one point. The conversation is not always exactly the same; there is a lot of variation in tone and timing—and sometimes things do not get said at all. Another example is the scene at the swimming pool where Haruhi at first introduces two little girls to Kyon and Koizumi, which turn into a boy and a girl later on. She's clearly trying to tell something. Also notice how she folds the paper at the end of each episode. It's stuff like this that makes me believe that Kyo Ani is doing something every exciting here.
  - Personally, I think looking at the little differences makes it fully worth the half hour.
- It's not that it isn't worth watching, it's that they could have done episodes much better. Instead of five to eight episodes spent on Endless Eight, why not four maximum? Then with the 'extra' (only 14 episodes this season, remember) episodes we could have seen stuff like making the movie, or the snow mountain incident etc.
- "Beyond cheap"? As far as I can tell, they're not reusing ANY animation. That's gotta get tiresome, not to mention expensive. If anyone's being lazy, then it's the writers. Or maybe there was just a fiasco with Kadokawa ordering so many? Although this does pretty much gyp the chances for seeing Snow Mountain Syndrome or the making of the movie (although to be frank the anime probably wouldn't benefit from showing the latter in my opinion). Personally, I don't know whether to like the overlong arc or find it obnoxious. What I do know is that no one will be complaining when the Disappearance episodes are airing, that's for damn sure.
- This troper thinks that it's damn well obvious that Kyo Ani is just trolling us.
  - And they are so serious about it that I can't help but respect this level of trolling. It's wrong, but I feel that I'll miss the endless episodes when they finish it, like a worthy rival/troll after an epic battle/trolling. Anyway, at least this endless episodes have allowed me to enjoy the "will they or won't they" feeling even though I've already read the novels. On the other hand, Oh, God, I HOPE THAT THIS MADNESS ENDS IN THE NEXT EPISODE, FOR EDITOR IN CHIEF'S SAKE!!
- This troper believes Kyo Ani should have at least made some episodes with the big differences mentioned by Nagato, like the alternative baito and skipping the O-bon for example. The sixth loop was incredibly boring, though the first seconds of random shootings of cicadas and road signs made me think of a Gainax-like ep. But no magical boobs to see, and just another boring ep done. Bloody trolls.
  - This troper agrees and would like to take back his defense of Kadokawa earlier – he has now officially decided that this arc just plain annoys him and doesn't even care that it's being animated differently each episode; he just wants to see it STOP ALREADY DEAR GOD WHY!!!!!!!!
- Endless Eight - week six... This troper can feel his sanity slowly slipping away. He can barely recall the time when this show had a plot worth watching. Regardless, he has to keep going somehow, he can not let this filler win... but he's so tired. This troper thinks he'll leave this post here. That way if he doesn't make it, at least there will be some kind of record. Also, can't wait to see the cast's new swimsuits next week. This is this troper signing off.
- I've just seen a raw of episode seven Guess what was at the end? Nothing.We might get lucky and there be only eight actual episodes and its done, either way this is a very hard blow for us fans of Haruhi Suzumiya. For the sake of the sanity of fans everywhere I hope this virus doesn't go any further than eight episodes.
- This is punishment for all the people who saw the first Endless Eight and complained that Kyo Ani ruined the story by not having a loop and there had better be a looped episode next or they would never watch it again. God is laughing.
- IT IS DONE! It ended finally on episode 9 with Kyon epically yelling at everyone to go to his house to study (Which if you really read what people had said on this page, one would already know...) I nearly cried and it cemented Kyon as one of my most favorite characters ever.
Why aliens, time travellers, espers and maybe sliders? When Haruhi created the universe what was so special about these four paranormal things that they were the ones that were real? Why not werewolves, angels, vampires and maybe ghosts?
- Haruhi likes sci-fi.
- The aliens were probably already around as well as the time travelers. Even the ES Pers may have been judging by what the anti-SOS Brigade is saying. Maybe she chose to call for something that would actually show up?
- Because if she wanted vampires, Kyon would turn into an Edward Cullen Expy and there would be a headshaped hole in my wall.
You know what really bugs me? The way this season is cramming the Kyon as God theory down my throat. I don't like it at all and yet the show seems to be going out of its' way to make the case for that theory.
- wat
  - The homework thing, for one. They keep stressing that he hasn't finished it right at the end, instead of it merely occurring to him after presumably never asking Haruhi to help him. It turns it from 'giving Haruhi a finishing touch to summer vacation' to being more credibly 'good, now I'm done my homework and can go back to school.'
  - Except, we havn't seen how they're doing the ending. She gives them all the last day off - presumably Kyon will have them all meet up and study together on that last day, thus giving Haruhi the desire for school. Her having already finished her homework probably won't matter.
  - That's how it is in the books, yes. But now they've stressed essentially every episode that Kyon hasn't finished his homework, and when he does, then suddenly the loop is resolved?
  - I think the most likely explanation is that Haruhi wanted to spend as much time as possible hanging out with her friends, but was out of ideas for stuff to do with a full day left. The actual activity wasn't the important thing (that Kyon and the others needed her help and Good Feels Good was probably just gravy).
  - I think (with help of some Alternative Character Interpretation) that maybe Haruhi isn't that much of a Jerkass as we think she is. At the end of the very first loop, she asked if anyone wanted to do anything else. She saw how everyone were upset and tired, yet how nobody proposed any new activities. Maybe, subconsciously she thought "maybe it wasn't a good idea to do all of this... maybe it would be better if I found the way to give them back the time spent", knowing deep in her mind this wasn't possible... though it WAS possible, because of her being a Reality Warper. Then, at the last loop, with all of them doing their homework at Kyon's place, maybe she realizes that though they're tired, there's no reason to be unhappy. And the loop ends
  - Haruhi made a list of things (stereotypical things, even) that a Japanese student might do during summer vacation. And did them all. However, she was also diligent in getting her homework done early - which is what is encouraged. So, no matter how stereotypical a last-minute homework jam is, she could not in her right mind, propose it herself. Problem is, the loop starts after she finishes her homework. Therefore, she is never at a point that she can propose a Homework Jam, but knows that she has to be part of one.
Why don't they ask Yuki to remind them of the loop?
- It's the sort of thing you'd think of after experiencing the loop for a long time... Which they have, but since they don't remember any previous loops, they don't think of it.
  - Every episode he sits and asks her, why didn't she say something earlier? And she says, her role is to watch. And it zooms in on him. Dramatic tension rises. He might say something else! ...but he never does. It's infuriating. It looks like he very much WANTS to tell her, next time you can tell me earlier... but doesn't.
  - Since there are subtle differences during each recursion, you'd think that they'd come up with the idea at least once, out of sheer probability's sake. And after they come up with the idea once, Yuki will continue to remind them, so it would cease to be an issue.
  - Sounds like the timeloop from Stargate SG 1 to me.
More importantly, how on earth are Bandai going to dub this?! Will they be able to improve it somehow through varying the deliveries or the dialogue up? Or... I dunno. I hope they do SOMETHING.
What bugs me the most about Endless Eight is that the one in the loop is Yuki, if had been Kyon it would have been more interesting to see his reactions, or even Koizumi or Mikuru, Nagato trys her best to hide her emotions so we don't notice much difference. If they had done it with Kyon and toned the loops to a total of like 20 instead of 15,000 it would have been more interesting. I understand the books came first and the show trys its best to stay true to it but couldn't we verge from it just a little bit?
- What makes you think she's trying? Isn't the generally accepted opinion more that she can't show her emotions properly? Kyon in the books seems to be thinking along the lines of 'oh wow if she's so bored that it's this obvious things must really suck.' As for why not Kyon, it messes up the narrative for two and a half reasons. One, we're following the viewpoint of someone much more active who could constantly try things to fix the problem. Second, Yuki needs to be the one to experience it so she flips out and steals Haruhi's powers. The last half point is that if she doesn't experience so much as to get bored, she has no real reason to do so and thus the plot gets borked.
Okay, here's a question that has nothing to do with Season Two, any of the craziness and plotlines of the light novels, or Haruhi herself. Itsuki (or was it Yuki?) said that the corrupted SOS logo in "Mysterique Sign" was some number of pictobytes or some other large file size. The thing is, if it was that big, wouldn't it take hours or days to load, even with good internet speed?
- When the file was put up, it was only a couple kilobytes or whatever. However, the first explanation was that the abnormal classroom warped the file and made it way larger by activating the cricket, or something to that effect anyway. The second explanation was that Yuki may have staged the whole event as something of a bonding event for the SOS Brigade, which would mean she made the file larger, and still while it was already uploaded. For people loading it, perhaps they only had to load the small visual file which then acted as a kind of gate? Bit fuzzy on the details of how they said it worked.
- You can fit far more than a kilobyte of information into a one kilobyte image. All you have to do is read the image in different ways, I assumed that Haruhi took it to the (il)logical conclusion.
- IIRC Yuki said the image was several petabytes (1000 terabytes.) Most major corporations don't even have that much storage, so how the hell did it get uploaded to a school's webserver? Only a tiny fraction of that could've fit, so what happened to the rest of the data?
- Perhaps the extraneous petabytes of data were in a pocket universe that Haruhi created?
- Okay. The file itself was only a few kilobytes because it merely told the computer what the file type was and what color each string of pixels was. The image itself, made when the pixels were put in the right order, contained over a thousand terrabytes of data that was detectable/comprehensible by the data entities and the thing behind the camel cricket. The reason it was so important was because it compressed so much information into a block of coloured tiles only a few dozen tiles square. If she had made the same image out of square clay tablets on the athletic field, it could potentially have had the same amount of data (minus the data that told the computer what image to draw, plus the data that tells the universe what the individual tiles were), though the compression (matter metaphor, not computer metaphor) probably wouldn't be as great. It's like how one of Claude Monet's paintings is, if you look at it one way, just a few tens of thousands (random and probably inaccurate estimate) of dots, but if you look at it another way, it's a detailed scene of a park that tells you the weather that day, the season, what people were there, what the people were wearing, the emotions they exhibited, so on and so forth.
On Haruhi's name what do the characters 涼宮 (Suzumiya) mean and why on Earth is Haruhi spelled in katakana?
- I can't tell you what the Kanji mean, but it's very common to use Katakana to write ones first name. It's simmilar to how the western varian of the name "Hannah" can be spelled "Hannah", "Hana" or "Hanna".
- An internet search suggests the Kanji might be read as Unflappable Royalty.
- Haruhi derives from "Haru" spring and -hi, diminutive suffix. "Suzu" means bell, and "Miya" means shrine, so "Shrine Bell". At least, that's how I translated it. Alternatively, maybe her parents wanted to make a female version of the name Haruki, just as we make Micheal-Michelle, etc.
- Literally translating the kanji in "Suzumiya" (not conjecturing random homophones) gives us "cool shrine" ("cool" as in the weather).
About the first season: If Ryouko, just like Yuki, can control reality to some extent, then why didn't she just make Kyon's parents to get a job in... let's say... France, the same way Yuki transfered her to Canada??? It certainly would have provoked a similar response in Haruhi (though it would have meant no awesome battle between Yuki and Ryouko)
- A couple of reasons: Primarily, she was trying to provokme Haruhi, which taking away Kyon (her most significant source of inspiration) would not have done. She was trying to kill him, not merely get him out of the way. Second, Yuki didn't change reality so that Ryoko's parents were transferred to Canada, she just changed the files the school had on Royoko and told the landlord that their family had moved unexpectedly. If you recall, it's canon that Yuki lives alone, and I think it's been stated (at least in the anime) that Ryoko did, too.
How is it when Haruhi is holding Mikuru's colored contact lens it rests on her finger (like a real one would), and yet when Mikuru wears it it covers the entirety of her huge moe-tastic eye?
- Giant anime eyes are merely a visual effect — it's not something the characters actually have in the fictional universe. I presume Mikuru "really" has normal-sized human eyes, and so the contact lens is probably depicted close to its "real" size when taken off. It's the same in Code Geass — Lelouch's Geass-blocking contact lens is realistically sized when it's shown off his eye.
There is no Dissappearance arc this second season. Kadokawa/Kyo Ani, you've trolled us again.
- This troper heard they were saving it for the movie.
So is there an explanation why the anime episodes aren't in chronological order? Or did the producers just want to make it seem more interesting that way?
- They were in the second run of the show.
Two things: one, the banner ad over this page currently reads, "Does God Exist?" I think that this page of all pages is proof that she does. Secondly, why do people hate on Endless Eight so much? It was fascinating! The different animation styles over the same scenes, the slightly different vocal intonations, everything! Why do so many people seem to think that Haruhi's ruined forever? Every episode I'd watch, I'd get to the point where I'm pretty much saying the lines with the characters, then...bam! Kyon would throw in a Neon Genesis Evangelion reference out of nowhere (in the frog costume scene) or a plane would fly overhead or the No Diving sign would be in camera view or the two kids with Haruhi would be boy and girl instead of two girls and...wow. The show completely blew my mind. It was one of the most creative things I've ever seen in a TV series like this and showed real guts on the part of the animation staff. Could people stop giving them crap about it?
- Either you haven't read the novels, or waited until the season was over to watch it. All of the marketing was pointing towards the Disappearance Arc being included in this season, which is arguably one of the best storylines of the series. Additionally, we waited three years for a second season, which is unusual for a series so popular. Even if it wasn't included, there were several minor arcs that would have made good use of the 14 episodes. So to have 8 episodes dedicated to a 30-page story, locking out so many storylines from this season, after the fans waited so long was Yanking The Dog's Chain to the highest degree.
Since the SOS Brigade smooth Haruhi's way to prevent her having a world-destroying sulk when she, say, loses at baseball, what are they going to do when she leaves school and enters the intractable world?

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