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** [[spoiler:If Sigma had done any of those events, it would have prevented a StableTimeLoop. Basically, warning the first responders doesn't guarantee that the outbreak is prevented, [[ForWantOfANail but it would still proceed differently]]. As for the Axelavir, that was impossible to do at the time, as it requires the antibodies of people who were immune to Radical-6, which is very hard to determine when people have not been required to make antibodies for Radical-6 yet, as the spread and subsequent pandemic had yet to exist. Also, testing for Radical-6 antibodies ''with'' Radical-6 would risk causing the outbreak they're trying to prevent, since it spreads so quickly. Even if they were able to make the Axelavir, they'd have to make enough to cure ''everyone'', which takes a lot of time, meaning they'd still lose a lot of people. Plus, Sigma knowing the cure for a viral pandemic that has yet to happen is kind of suspicious. I got nothing for the cryo option though, other than the timey wimey.]]

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** [[spoiler:If Sigma had done any of those events, it would have prevented a StableTimeLoop. Basically, warning the first responders doesn't guarantee that the outbreak is prevented, [[ForWantOfANail but it would still proceed differently]].differently. As for the Axelavir, that was impossible to do at the time, as it requires the antibodies of people who were immune to Radical-6, which is very hard to determine when people have not been required to make antibodies for Radical-6 yet, as the spread and subsequent pandemic had yet to exist. Also, testing for Radical-6 antibodies ''with'' Radical-6 would risk causing the outbreak they're trying to prevent, since it spreads so quickly. Even if they were able to make the Axelavir, they'd have to make enough to cure ''everyone'', which takes a lot of time, meaning they'd still lose a lot of people. Plus, Sigma knowing the cure for a viral pandemic that has yet to happen is kind of suspicious. I got nothing for the cryo option though, other than the timey wimey.]]
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* This is extremely minor, but: Akane ''instantly'' solves multiple incredibly-long anagram phrases with the exact correct answer, when even a computer would struggle or would come up with dozens of possible solutions. And yet she can't figure out what word might be made by the letters AEDLT?

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* This is extremely minor, but: Akane ''instantly'' solves multiple incredibly-long anagram phrases with the exact correct answer, when even a computer would struggle or would come up with dozens of possible solutions. And yet she can't figure out what word might be made by the letters AEDLT?AEDLT?
* [[spoiler:Who exactly pushed for the DNA evidence of Eric's mom's murder case to be reexamined? Resources are limited, because of that, it is impractical to run detailed forensic analysis on every piece of evidence ever found. Typically, when this happens, it is because someone (or a large group of people) is heavily pushing for it. But in this case, by the time the DNA was examined, Akane and Aoi's father had already been executed, their mom had committed suicide, and they had been lied to and believed that their parents both died in some kind of accident. So who exactly is left that believed strongly enough in Akane's dad's innocence enough to actively campaign to have the DNA examined for months or maybe years and possibly raised money to do have it done? Considering that Aoi was responsible for essentially raising Akane after their parents died, and when the two didn't even get reported missing when they were kidnapped, it seems like they don't have any extended family either who could've done so.]]
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trope split


* Why does Gab have a HundredPercentAdorationRating? I kept expecting a good explanation for why he seemed to be practically mind-controlling people at points, because of course in ''Zero Escape'', there can be no coincidences... but then nothing.

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* Why does is Gab have a HundredPercentAdorationRating? LovedByAll? I kept expecting a good explanation for why he seemed to be practically mind-controlling people at points, because of course in ''Zero Escape'', there can be no coincidences... but then nothing.
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* Delta says that not one of the [=SHIFTers=] took a linear path to the Force Quit ending. While this appears to be true--Carlos's knowledge of the alien cards suggests that this was still the same Carlos that made a tour of every other timeline, and all of D-Team remembers their familial relationship--what caused them to SHIFT into that timeline? For that matter, when would Phi have learned that information?

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* Delta says that not one of the [=SHIFTers=] took a linear path to the Force Quit ending. While this appears to be true--Carlos's knowledge of the alien cards suggests that this was still the same Carlos that made a tour of every other timeline, and all of D-Team remembers their familial relationship--what caused them to SHIFT into that timeline? For that matter, when would Phi have learned that information?information?
* This is extremely minor, but: Akane ''instantly'' solves multiple incredibly-long anagram phrases with the exact correct answer, when even a computer would struggle or would come up with dozens of possible solutions. And yet she can't figure out what word might be made by the letters AEDLT?
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*** I think this is a plot hole because the Carlos that sends himself ten months back in time must exist in ''every'' timeline, just like how Delta exists in the timelines that don't result in his own birth. This second Carlos would have to exist in the same world as the original Carlos, [[UndeadTaxExemption logistics unknown]], and would break into or otherwise have the bomb shelter investigated in all timelines. I think the only explanation that makes sense is that Akane stops Carlos from rescuing the two until after Delta and Phi have been sent back in time, either because Akane wants to avoid a paradox similar to what she suffers during the bad endings of ''999'', or the religious fanatic is real and Akane needs Delta to be born and the events of ''Zero Time Dilemma'' to take place so they can be stopped.
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** Alternatively, him not recognising Phi can be chalked up to Phi vastly changing her aesthetic style in ZTD, combined with Tenmyouji's old age. He could've chalked the name up to being a coincidence. Or maybe he just genuinely forget her name and what she was like. He was surviving through an apocalypse, while desperately longing for Akane, '''and''' raising a kid. Kinda had his mind focused on other things.
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Dewicking pages that are being merged into UsefulNotes.Logical Fallacies.


*** StrawmanFallacy - This is a point that while valid by its own merit, does not address the actual points put forth, namely the comparison between how information is hidden/not hidden from the player, instead sidestepping them with an unrelated issue regarding the plot twist with Sigma.

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*** StrawmanFallacy [[UsefulNotes/LogicalFallacies Strawman Fallacy]] - This is a point that while valid by its own merit, does not address the actual points put forth, namely the comparison between how information is hidden/not hidden from the player, instead sidestepping them with an unrelated issue regarding the plot twist with Sigma.
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*** There's also the fact that [[spoiler:Sigma was almost near death after losing both his arms, Phi was unconscious, and Diana (at best) might have only ''heard'' about the CAS treatment pods, but would have no idea where to get one, let alone so quickly.

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*** There's also the fact that [[spoiler:Sigma was almost near death after losing both his arms, Phi was unconscious, and Diana (at best) might have only ''heard'' about the CAS treatment pods, but would have no idea where to get one, let alone so quickly.]]
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*** This troper has a small correction. Dio is a clone of Delta's adoptive brother Left, not Delta himself. Presumably he clone that becomes Dio has yet to be cloned, as he is a fourth generation clone and appears to be in his 20s by the time VLR happens which takes place 45 years after ZTD.
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*** [[spoiler:There's no Watsonian answer to this. From a Doylist perspective, it's because Sean would have insisted going back for Q, a defenseless human being who was nearly left behind. But at this point we're still supposed to think Sean is named Q. There had to be something to go back for, and Gab provided an excuse.]]


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** ''Technically'', we do find out what happened to Aoi and ''Seven'' when C-Team is in the Decontamination Room. And Dio is a clone of Delta, so there is sort of a Dio who isn't the same one. If I recall correctly, the conclusion to Clover and Alice's stories was promised in the non-canon (i.e., meta BS) ending of VLR, so it's not surprising that didn't pan out.


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** If his alcoholism is minor then the dependency may be psychological instead of physical. The outward signs would be more along the lines of irritability and aggressiveness, and he displays plenty of both.


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*** Axelavir is derived from the antibodies of people who are immune to Radical-6. It's not a poison antidote you can just knock up in a lab; Zero has no obvious way of making it. It's more likely Zero simply didn't care; that wasn't a timeline he was interested in. Mira and Eric can kill each other, they can wander off into the world and start the plague, doesn't matter. It's the other branch, the one that leads to VLR, that Zero is interested in.


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** Eric starts the standoff, and he's been at Sean's throat almost the whole game so obviously he aims at him. Sean aims his crossbow defensively, and Mira completes the standoff because she's playing TheGadfly (and wants to kill Eric anyway). Q obviously doesn't have a weapon, nobody even thinks he's capable of wielding one, ergo he is not a threat.


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** The fact that Junpei's body parts were ''used as parts of the puzzle'' makes the idea of suicide absolutely laughable. His death had to have been known, anticipated, and incorporated into the original design; Zero isn't improvising this stuff off the cuff.
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**** On an intellectual level. That's not the same thing as actually feeling like she's murdered six billion people. Her primary emotional pain right now should be coming from Phi and Sigma's condition, not some imagined capability.

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* How does D-Team learn the passcode to the Door of Truth? As the omniscient player, we find out that it's the twins' birthday via Q-Team reading the hint from the other side of the door. However, even with timeline jumping powers, D-Team wouldn't have access to this information since they never directly experienced the hint. Nor could they have overheard Q-Team since they arrive at the door after Q-Team has fallen asleep. Lucky guess using knowledge from the "trapped for ten months" timeline? Sigma using Akane's "experiencing events through the eyes of another" power from Nine Doors? The omniscient player mind-hacking Sigma?
* Delta says that not one of the [=SHIFTers=] took a linear path to the Force Quit ending. While this appears to be true--Carlos's knowledge of the alien cards suggests that this was still the same Carlos that made a tour of every other timeline, and all of D-Team remembers their familial relationship--what caused them to SHIFT into that timeline? For that matter, when would Phi have learned that information?
** According to Sigma, [=SHIFTing=] is at least sometimes reflexive when a [=SHIFTer=] has a near-death experience -- he remembers being run over by a car as a kid but woke up in his own bed, prior to learning how to consciously [=SHIFT=] in VLR. All of the characters experience several deaths in the course of ZTD, so each "soul" in the Force Quit timeline could easily come from one (or all) of the doomed timelines, without intending to. Phi knowing that she's Sigma and Diana's daughter is less clear. Akane was able to experience the events of 999 through Junpei's eyes. In each of the ZTD timelines where a team is executed, one of the characters has a vision of the doomed team's last moments. It seems [=SHIFTers=] have at least a limited ability to perceive things through the perspective of others.

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* How does D-Team learn the passcode to the Door of Truth? As the omniscient player, we find out that it's the twins' birthday via Q-Team reading the hint from the other side of the door. However, even with timeline jumping powers, D-Team wouldn't have access to this information since they never directly experienced the hint. Nor could they have overheard Q-Team since they arrive at the door after Q-Team has fallen asleep. Lucky guess using knowledge from the "trapped for ten months" timeline? Sigma using Akane's "experiencing events through the eyes of another" power from Nine Doors? The omniscient player mind-hacking Sigma?
* Delta says that not one of the [=SHIFTers=] took a linear path to the Force Quit ending. While this appears to be true--Carlos's knowledge of the alien cards suggests that this was still the same Carlos that made a tour of every other timeline, and all of D-Team remembers their familial relationship--what caused them to SHIFT into that timeline? For that matter, when would Phi have learned that information?
** According to Sigma, [=SHIFTing=] is at least sometimes reflexive when a [=SHIFTer=] has a near-death experience -- he remembers being run over by a car as a kid but woke up in his own bed, prior to learning how to consciously [=SHIFT=] in VLR. All of the characters experience several deaths in the course of ZTD, so each "soul" in the Force Quit timeline could easily come from one (or all) of the doomed timelines, without intending to. Phi knowing that she's Sigma and Diana's daughter is less clear. Akane was able to experience the events of 999 through Junpei's eyes. In each of the ZTD timelines where a team is executed, one of the characters has a vision of the doomed team's last moments. It seems [=SHIFTers=] have at least a limited ability to perceive things through the perspective of others.
information?
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** According to Sigma, [=SHIFTing=] is at least sometimes reflexive when a [=SHIFTer=] has a near-death experience -- he remembers being run over by a car as a kid but woke up in his own bed, prior to learning how to consciously [=SHIFT=] in VLR. All of the characters experience several deaths in the course of ZTD, so each "soul" in the Force Quit timeline could easily come from one (or all) of the doomed timelines. Phi knowing that she's Sigma and Diana's daughter is less clear. Akane was able to experience the events of 999 through Junpei's eyes. In each of the ZTD timelines where a team is executed, one of the characters has a vision of the doomed team's last moments. It seems [=SHIFTers=] have at least a limited ability to perceive things through the perspective of others.

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** According to Sigma, [=SHIFTing=] is at least sometimes reflexive when a [=SHIFTer=] has a near-death experience -- he remembers being run over by a car as a kid but woke up in his own bed, prior to learning how to consciously [=SHIFT=] in VLR. All of the characters experience several deaths in the course of ZTD, so each "soul" in the Force Quit timeline could easily come from one (or all) of the doomed timelines.timelines, without intending to. Phi knowing that she's Sigma and Diana's daughter is less clear. Akane was able to experience the events of 999 through Junpei's eyes. In each of the ZTD timelines where a team is executed, one of the characters has a vision of the doomed team's last moments. It seems [=SHIFTers=] have at least a limited ability to perceive things through the perspective of others.

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** Continuing on from the above point, the "ton of virtually-identical timelines" explanation makes the most sense. The timelines branch whenever someone makes a decision. Each probability-based outcome ultimately depends on some degree of decision-making. "Which locker do I place the gas mask in?" "Which box does the antidote go in?" "Which of the six bullets sitting in front of me do I load into the first chamber of the revolver?" "How hard do I toss this coin/die, and at what angle?" Each of these result in the creation of slightly different timelines on a common trajectory until they reach a branching point dependent on the original choice, then split off to their common outcomes. SHIFTers probably lack the fine-grained control to jump to specific threads ("I chose a box and the mask was in box 4") rather than the common branch ("I chose a box"). The "Who killed Mira?" branch is an example of this. Sean can suggest a variety of culprits leading to slightly different responses, but they all lead to a single outcome, his death.

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** Continuing on from the above point, the "ton of virtually-identical timelines" explanation makes the most sense. The timelines branch whenever someone makes a decision. Each probability-based outcome ultimately depends on some degree of decision-making. "Which locker do I place the gas mask in?" "Which box does the antidote go in?" "Which of the six bullets sitting in front of me do I load into the first chamber of the revolver?" "How hard do I toss this coin/die, and at what angle?" Each of these result in the creation of slightly different timelines on a common trajectory until they reach a branching point dependent on the original choice, then split off to their common outcomes. SHIFTers [=SHIFTers=] probably lack the fine-grained control to jump to specific threads ("I chose a box and the mask was in box 4") rather than the common branch ("I chose a box"). The "Who killed Mira?" branch is an example of this. Sean can suggest a variety of culprits leading to slightly different responses, but they all lead to a single outcome, his death.



* Delta says that not one of the [=SHIFTers=] took a linear path to the Force Quit ending. While this appears to be true--Carlos's knowledge of the alien cards suggests that this was still the same Carlos that made a tour of every other timeline, and all of D-Team remembers their familial relationship--what caused them to SHIFT into that timeline? For that matter, when would Phi have learned that information?

to:

* Delta says that not one of the [=SHIFTers=] took a linear path to the Force Quit ending. While this appears to be true--Carlos's knowledge of the alien cards suggests that this was still the same Carlos that made a tour of every other timeline, and all of D-Team remembers their familial relationship--what caused them to SHIFT into that timeline? For that matter, when would Phi have learned that information?information?
** According to Sigma, [=SHIFTing=] is at least sometimes reflexive when a [=SHIFTer=] has a near-death experience -- he remembers being run over by a car as a kid but woke up in his own bed, prior to learning how to consciously [=SHIFT=] in VLR. All of the characters experience several deaths in the course of ZTD, so each "soul" in the Force Quit timeline could easily come from one (or all) of the doomed timelines. Phi knowing that she's Sigma and Diana's daughter is less clear. Akane was able to experience the events of 999 through Junpei's eyes. In each of the ZTD timelines where a team is executed, one of the characters has a vision of the doomed team's last moments. It seems [=SHIFTers=] have at least a limited ability to perceive things through the perspective of others.

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