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- Midna referred to the Sols as the Twili's version of the sun, a source of light and power. The Sols get absorbed by the Master Sword, and never do seem to be removed at any point in time... right up until Midna destroys the mirror, and only way to even get to the Twilight Realm, essentially cutting the Twili off from their "sun!" Way to go, heroes...
- Note that the glowy power leaves the Master Sword whenever Link exits the Twilight Realm. Presumably they can't go through the mirror, and got left behind when Link left.
- In the battle against Puppet Zelda, if you stand around without attacking, Midna eventually tells you that the power of the Sols in the Master Sword will allow Link to better defend against the attacks. So while we don't see it, the Master Sword is still infused with light, even outside of the Twilight Realm.
- That can't be, because Midna is locked out of the room during that battle by a barrier, so you can't talk to her.
- That, and when you fight Ganondorf in the last phase, the Master Sword is glowing like Ganondorf's sword. I checked with Rusl's sword, to make sure it wasn't from the lighting. Rusl's sword only reflects the light. The Master Sword also glows when you get the Action Command to lock blades. Also, when you fight shadow beasts with it outside of the Twilight Realm, it faintly glows. (Yes, it is possible to not kill all of the shadow beasts that are supposed to show up before the Palace of Twilight.)
- Perhaps there were more than just those two?
- Alternatively, Link returned the power to the Twilight Realm just before that scene opened.
- Or, perhaps, the Sols didn't infuse all their power to the Master Sword. If they did, I doubt the platforms powered by these same Sols would still be working.
- Consider that Sols, like most of the stuff in there, probably wasn't there when the Twili were banished, and that they are quite powerful magically, barring their inability to traverse the worlds. They probably conjured up new ones.
- Is it just me, or is the whole point left as a Broken Aesop? (At least, the way it was told, what was shown says otherwise.) I understand the whole point is that Dark Is Not Evil, but Midna at the end says the same thing as Zant, before he cursed her by using Lanaryu, right before she shatters the Mirror of Twilight. That bugged me, because she was saying how light and dark don't mix, though she and Link proved otherwise throughout the course of the game. Did I miss something?
- The Twilight Realm didn't start having problems until Ganondorf, a light being, pervaded their world. So really, Light and Shadow didn't mix after all.
- Uhm... Ganon(dorf) hasn't been a "Light Being", ever since his dark heart transformed the sacred realm into the dark world. Which was 100-1000 years prior to this game.
- Irrelevant. Ganondorf is a creature of the "light" side of the mirror. Having a "dark" heart doesn't change where he was born or what form of entity he is.
- Yeah, that seemed like something of a tacked on sad ending to me as well. One other possible reason is that it provides Nintendo a freebie escape clause in case they never want to mention Twilight again (and, of course, they can still bring it back whenever they want for reasons common to all fiction.)
- It seemed to be more of the viewpoints between the two. Zant seemed to believe that the peaceful demeanor the world of Twilight had taken on meant that it was weak and thus he set out to conquer both the Light and the Twilight world under Ganondorf's orders. Midna ultimately realized that while Light and Twilight were opposite sides of the same coin and both sides had good and bad people to them, it was simply too dangerous for both if they were allowed to mix (the game showed that the people of both worlds were deformed and hurt from it).
- Yeah, I gathered it was a combination of the harmful-to-residents-on-opposite-sides thing and Midna possibly being paranoid that, although most of the Twili and Hylians were good people, there was always a small chance that another person like Zant or Ganondorf would come along.
- Unfortunately, had Zant suceeded with his plan, darkness would rule across the land and Ganon would be a god amongst Hylians.
Triforce of Power
- How, exactly did Ganondorf get the Triforce of Power? The Door of Time was still locked in the game.
- Apparently, the Triforce transcends time and space. So even though Ganondorf only obtained it in the Adult timeline, since the Triforce transcends time, he has it in every possible split timeline. This is why Link couldn't simply go get the Triforce in the past in Skyward Sword, because he already had it from his time.
- Resonance. The two timelines parallel one another. The Sacred Realm, as a separate universe, was unaltered by the time travel, so he went in in one timeline, and came out in both. Will of Din. Dark sorcery, probably from his mother(s), who Link never killed in that timeline. Plot hole. Take your pick.
- I'll take plot hole for $100.
- I was under the impression that he never actually had the Triforce of Power; rather, he simply had the affinity of the Triforce of Power, plus loads of Bad Ass and Determinator.
- If we take the game literally, then Din gave it to him For the Lulz.
- The Goddesses Did It For the Lulz explains quite a few of the bizarre things that happen in Zelda, to be honest.
- I was under the impression that when Ganondorf stole the Triforce and split it during the events of Ocarina of Time, the Triforce wasn't fused again in the Child Timeline by that time. The Triforce of Power had to go somewhere, and that explains why Link and Zelda both had their Triforces in Twilight Princess. That's only my two cents, though.
- A combination of Because Destiny Says So and The Only One Allowed to Defeat You. Because Ganondorf must be defeated by a Link and a Zelda working against him, Din intervenes in his execution by giving him the Triforce of Power.
- This is one of the major reasons I've never interpreted the Word of God as actually referring to a split timeline. That and Occam's Razor.
- We've seen on several occasions that the Triforce of Courage and Triforce of Wisdom existed separately as physical objects, even going as far as to break the Triforce of Courage into pieces. I just kinda figured that Ganondorf probably looted the corpse of his ancestors or whoever was the last guy to have it and took the solidified Triforce of Power for his own needs.
- I always assumed this was in the adult timeline (that is to say, the world where Ganondorf was defeated), which would set up the back-story, though this brings it back to the whole split timeline debate (I say Wind Waker represented the child line, because Link left for Termina and Ganondorf couldn't be stopped, but the legend of a hero would still be present since he had been running around that line), which would fix that plot-hole. His victory in the child line is what gets him the Triforce of Power there and in WW, and that solves the problem of him having the Triforce and the backstory of having been imprisoned by the Sages (granted, TP's portrayal could be considered a legend, thus why it didn't match the events of the original).
- It could be Child!OoT -> MM -> TP, Adult!OoT -> WW/PH/ST. Ganondorf was being executed in TP because Link, having been sent back in time at the end of Oo T, was able to warn the king about his plan before he could carry it out. That would also explain why the sages in TP aren't the same sages from OoT - Saria, Ruto, etc. were never awakened in the child line, so the previous sages (presumably killed by Ganondorf during Oo T) were around to attempt to execute him. Meanwhile, in the Adult branch, Link just vanished from existence, and so he/his descendents weren't there to stop the next invasion of Hyrule. And That's Terrible.
- As mentioned above, the Triforce transcends space and time. When Ganondorf attempted to claim the Triforce, this act lingered through the timeline. When Zelda created a new timeline wherein Link could have a childhood and grow up normal (or so was the plan, anyway), despite the fact that Ganondorf was prevented from passing through the Door of Time, the damage was already done. The Door never opened, but it never had to; the Sacred Realm was already breached and the Triforce was no longer there; had Ganondorf succeeded in breaching it this time, he likely would have been very confused to find the chamber empty. Thus, Ganondorf possessed the Triforce of Power without ever entering the Sacred Realm, but was ignorant of the fact that he had it until the moment of his execution, when the Triforce protected him from what would otherwise have been a mortal injury. At that point, Ganondorf became aware of the Triforce and tapped into it for the power that allowed him to kill one of the Sages, before he was ultimately sealed away through the Mirror of Twilight.
- Alternatively, it could be seen as Ganondorf stumbling on a lucky break that when he was due for execution, that was at the same timeframe that his counterpart from the Adult timeline obtained the Triforce of Power (meaning the events play out synchronously across timelines), then transcending itself to every other timeline.
- Skyward Sword outright says that Ganondorf is the incarnation of Demise's hatred, cursed to fight Zelda and Link's reincarnations across time. So it is entirely possible that the Triforce symbol lighting up isn't actually the Triforce of Power itself, but Demise's curse activating to keep the current incarnation of his hatred alive long enough to ensure he would continue until he fought Link and Zelda.
- The way I saw it (and I'm sure Hyrule Historia says something about this), when Link was sent back by Zelda, he lost the Triforce of Courage from the Adult Timeline, causing it to shatter. When he returned to the past he had still earned the Triforce of Courage so it went to him. This made the Triforces of Wisdom and Power to go to Zelda and Ganondorf.
- So once again. Ganondorf must kidnap Zelda and pry Link's piece away from him, but he does this in quite possibly the most darkest and cruelest way imaginable.
- How does Ilia being shot with an arrow cause her to lose all her memories? It's not like the arrow hit her head or anything.
- I've heard in a few different places that the arrow they shot her with was poisonous, according to Wordof God...though I've never actually read this in anything actually released by Nintendo.
- At the end of the Twilight Princess, am I honestly supposed to believe that that was Zant's neck snapping? It sounded like he needed a trip to the chiropractor but not like anything fatal.
- I saw it as him breaking his neck to kill Ganandorf. Ganondorf tricked him and used him, so he kills himself to kill Ganondorf. Well, however much Ganondorf can be killed.
- I saw it as Ganondorf being the only thing that kept Zant alive after his defeat. With Ganondorf gone, well...
- That's my interpretation of it, as well. The neck snapping is simply symbolic of Zant's connection to the living world being cut.
- I dunno, it really did look like Zant snapped his own neck to me, not it just happening due to Ganondorf dying. It was probably some sort of Take That to Ganondorf; y'know, to avenge being hijacked by him.
- We don't know if he actually died from that because he hasn't made a reappearance or mention in other games confirming it. We don't know if he even snapped his neck. People's necks make those noises when turned to the side.
- I didn't think Zant was snapping his neck. I thought he was maybe smiling bitterly at Ganondorf, showing he knew Ganondorf was in trouble but offering no aid, and that as Ganondorf died, he would keep living. Maybe wishful thinking on my part, since I want Zant to show up again.
- Zant's expression during that scene seems, to me, more like one of slack-jawed disbelief, as though he could not comprehend that his "God" had been slain right in front of him. If you look closely, he even shakes his head slightly, as though thinking "No, This Cannot Be!," just before his tether is cut.
- I may be remembering this wrong, but the relationship between Zant and Ganondorf is based on a myth. In the myth, I think, the God made a deal with... something, so that if one of them died the other could resurrect them. Since Ganondorf didn't revive Zant straight away, Zant killed himself (again, somehow) so that neither of them would survive.
- Seems like Zant killed Ganondorf. The crack was Ganondorf's neck snapping, not Zant's. Because in that one small moment, Zant had more power than the mighty Ganondorf.
- I just rewatched that scene out of curiosity, and it suddenly occurred to me that Ganondorf could be hallucinating Zant. When Zant seemingly reappears, the color looks different and the glow effects look to be more exaggerated. Ganondorf also seems to be the only one in any way aware of him. I can't think WHY Ganondorf would hallucinate Zant, but hey, at least it's simple. Occam's Razor, right?
- My two cents. a) It's a situation similar to what happened at the end of Harry Potter. Ganondorf and Zant are tethered to one another. As long as Ganondorf is alive, Zant can't be killed and vice versa. Ganondorf knew this, and was about to gloat when Zant appeared to him in a vision, snapping his own neck out of revenge for his "all-powerful god" using him as a tool. In this explanation, Nintendo wimped out on making Zant's death more obvious (as that would necessitate something a bit more graphic than they wanted). Or b) Ganondorf is starting to cross over into Hyrule's afterlife, when he sees Zant waiting for him. Zant is pissed about the way things turned out, and the neck crack is him loosening up before he opens a can of crazy on Ganondorf's ass in the afterlife.
- Or c) The fact that Zant was tied to Ganondorf provided an opportunity for Ganondorf to set aside an escape route through Zant. In this way, Zant was tied to Ganondorf was tied to Zant, and both were bound to the Triforce. When Midna killed Zant, and then Link killed Ganondorf before Zant had a chance to recover, they were both drawing power from Ganondorf's Triforce. Zant succumbed first (intentionally or not doesn't matter) and the resulting backlash pushed Ganondorf over the edge.
Breaking the chains
- In Twilight Princess, Ganondorf broke through the Sages' chains after being stabbed. But why didn't he just do that in the first place? He had the Triforce of Power all along.
- He only realized that he could still use the Triforce after he got stabbed and the Triforce came into effect. He probably thought that the Triforce was sealed after he lost to the Hero of Time.
- Wrong Timeline, the Ganondorf in TP was exposed by child Link and never fought the Hero of Time.
- It seems like in the child/TP timeline, Ganondorf never got to the Triforce, so he was able to be killed. However, he was the destined wielder of the Triforce of Power (kind of like an evil Chosen One), so Din granted him Power when he needed it to live. Cue asskicking.
- It's possible that the Triforce transcends Time. When Ganondorf got it in Oo T, it crossed the timelines into Twilight Princess.
- I always thought it happened through a combination of Because Destiny Says So, The Only One Allowed to Defeat You, and Set Right What Once Went Wrong. The Sages can't kill Ganondorf because they aren't meant to kill Ganondorf. His plans coincided with the existence of a Link and a Zelda, therefore it is their destinies to defeat him. However, in this timeline, they just had him arrested and tried for his crimes. The Goddesses did not appreciate their plan being altered, so they gave Ganondorf the piece of the Triforce he was always meant to have (by destiny, not by right), thereby preventing his execution. The Goddesses rewrote destiny and reincarnated Zelda and Link at a time that they would be able to stop Ganondorf when he escaped. Of course, this is 100% pure fanon.
- Think of it as the same reason why the Triforce of Courage didn't show from within Link until he needed it after being pulled into the Twilight - after the Hero of Time was returned to his childhood, his Triforce piece remained with him, thus causing another split and the Triforce of Power to land in Ganondorf's hand, where it remained dormant until he needed it upon his attempted execution.
- That scene actually seems to be akin to his beast transformation in Ocarina of Time, which seems to be something the Triforce of Power simply does whenever he's mortally wounded (be it your tower collapsing over your head, or being impaled by a light sword), not something he necessarily activates himself. We even see his face start to shift before he gets banished to the Twilight Realm. The extra strength right before the transformation also seems to be par for the course, in Ocarina he cleared quite a bit of rubble in a most explosive fashion.
Fused Shadows and Mirror
- At the end of the Twilight Princess, Midna says that "light and shadow were not meant to mix" and destroys the twilight mirror. She does this after the Fused Shadows, the most dangerous magic of the Twilight Realm, are kaput. Ganondorf crushed 'em in his hands, so why was keeping the portal open as an option to call for help if needed such a bad thing?
- People of Twilight apparently can't be touched by actual sunlight without dying horribly — Midna's a special case because she was basically given Zelda's soul for a little while halfway through the game, and still nearly died before that. Midna was probably protecting her people from the possibility of Hyrule attempting to attack them, when they'd have no way to fight back effectively, since trying to do so would lead to horrible sunlight-ridden death. Also, she's needlessly dramatic.
- Ooooooooooooookay, let's examine the facts: a) the people of Hyrule are peaceful by nature and unlikely to ever attack. b) the Twilight Mirror is very small, and it would be a simple task to simply break it into chunks if they ever did. c) you do not need to destroy the Twilight Mirror to render it inoperable, breaking it in half and taking the other half with you would suffice. That way you could reassemble it if needed.
- So Midna breaks the mirror and takes half of it with her. Ignoring the question of how she would get through the mirror while it was broken, especially while carrying half of it (the only reason she could get through the shattered mirror was because it held its shape long enough to continue showing the portal to the Twilight), how is she going to reassemble it when half of the mirror is in a different universe? Moreover, even the Hylians are peaceful, it was still their fault that Ganondorf got through in the first place, since they sent him there. She's the Queen of those people. Midna's probably not going to think, "Well, they gave a madman the power to stage a coup, steal my throne, subjugate my people, and murder countless of their own people, but they've probably learned their lesson!"
- Did you miss the part where Ganondorf DIED? Now he's DEAD! Because they KILLED him! He is not much of a threat anymore.
- Also, the Sages cannot really be held fully responsible for flinging Ganondorf into the Twilight Realm. They did it not because they planned to, but because he broke free after they tried to execute him. They had to make their decision to do so very quickly. Remember, their options were limited to "fling Ganondorf into the twilight Realm" or "die just like our friend, thus loosing Ganondorf into our world".
- Even if Ganondorf died, there's no guarantee that some other madman won't pop up at some point in the future. I mean, there's been a Link for every generation that needed one, there's been a Zelda for every generation that's needed one, it's not impossible that there could be some dark force to pop up every once in a while. And besides, even if it wasn't a malicious attempt to harm the Twilight Realm, the effect still was that the place was almost destroyed.
- Yes to the possibility of other madmen, but they wouldn't have the Triforce of Power. That means that when the Sages shoved a sword into them, they would die. And stay dead, unlike Ganondorf. And do you really think Ganondorf wouldn't attack the Twilight Realm anyway, even if the Mirror was shattered? If he survived, he's going to be pretty pissed about being stabbed like that, and with the Triforce of Power, he could get into the place anyway. I guarantee it.
- How do we know Ganondorf CAN'T come back? I mean, the revolving door of reincarnation works for Link and Zelda. Why can't Ganondorf be reincarnated using that? He IS the Chosen of the Triforce of Power, after all.
- It's tradition, man. Nintendo law (or at least Zelda law) states that while there can be multiple Links and Zeldas, there will always be just ONE Ganondorf.
- Who is surprisingly good at not dying, no matter what. Betcha he's still alive after all that. In fact, I'm certain he IS still alive, because the original Zelda is after TP and he's in that.
- Original Zelda is a separate timeline (the Defeat Timeline), but yes, Ganon is surprisingly good at not dying. "Resurrecting Ganon" is a plotline that recurs about as much as "Ganon is still alive" does. As for how we know Ganon can't reincarnate, it's because the only one of the core trinity that reincarnates is Zelda, and her reincarnation has absolutely nothing to do with the Triforce.
- HE CAN. IN ONE HUNDRED FREAKIN' YEARS.
- Four Swords Adventure had a new Ganondorf being born. He was even born to the Gerudo Tribe. Who almost immediately set out for the Artifact of Doom when he became strong enough. Who's to say Ganondorf wasn't reincarnated at that point in time?
- That was in fact the reincarnation of Twilight Princess's Ganon according to Hyrule Historia.
- Midna isn't breaking the mirror because she's afraid of the portal, she's breaking the mirror because she's afraid of the mirror. The game rubs it in over and over and freaking over that the mirror is concentrated evil that can turn the timidest thing in the world into an ice-wielding demon. That's why Midna makes sure to handle the pieces (instead of Link), and a similar mood is presented with every other mirror piece you collect.
- They could have had trusted people like Link and Zelda to hold the pieces in case they needed to reassemble it, thus eliminating the problem of Midna being unable to reassemble it within her dimension. Also, yeah, Midna is needlessly dramatic. Zelda just said before that the gods meant for the people to meet once again. Doesn't sealing off the Twilight Realm prove evil's triumph? Midna is afraid of another evil uprising, so she seals off the realm. But, Link defeated the evil. Why can't they just beat it again if it comes back or at least be more careful about pissed off court jesters and such? I know I'm rambling here, but it just seems like a really unnecessary ending there tacked on for bittersweetness. I mean, it's obvious to anyone what's going on with Link and Midna's relationship. But they had to seal up THAT plothole, so that's how they dealt with that so we can go back to loving the official couple of Link and Zelda who have absolutely no chemistry together at all.
- Is Link/Zelda the official couple of TP? I kind of thought there was another girl roughly his age with whom he has a closer connection...
- Midna/Link was completely one-sided, not to mention that Nintendo doesn't even seem to recognize Link/Zelda as an official couple. I don't think shipping had anything to do with the breaking of the mirror.
- It's arguable if it is one-sided. Both Link and Midna warm to each other considerably during/after the Midna's Lament chapter; Midna does a lot of flirting with Link in the short time after the curse is broken; and I dare you to watch the scene after the final swordfight (when Link runs to Midna) without getting SOME subtext out of it.
- Just because he runs to her because he thought she died and is glad that she's okay, doesn't mean that he's got feelings for her. I never said Link doesn't care for Midna at all, just not in a romantic manner.
- Going back on track — if I were the Twilight Princess, I wouldn't think "hey, we already killed the bad guys once, we can totally do that once again!". I would think "what if this happens again and this time I can't stop them? What if even more people die?". And "they sealed the bad guy in my realm to save themselves" doesn't change the fact that they sealed the bad guy in my realm, so if I could in any way stop this from happening ever again I wouldn't argue. And say that I (speaking as Midna) do break the mirror and give the pieces to Zelda and Link — yes, they are people I can trust. Are the people they're going to give the shards to when they die people I can actually trust with that power? What if somebody steals them? I can't risk the life of my realm just because I want to say hi every once in a while. Besides, she might be able to move back and forth through the realms without the mirror — see the sentence underneath.
- Zant and his things were able to move back and forth through the realms without using the mirror, right? Midna said "See you later", right? So she'll see Link later, she just destroyed the mirror because she could, proving herself to be the "true ruler of twilight".
- Actually, Zant never moves between the worlds of light and twilight during the time the mirror is known to be broken. It's all the more likely he fragmented it immediately after he'd reanimated Stallord, as a precaution in case Link managed to emerge victorious.
- Twilight creatures continue to come through portals during the time we know the mirror to be shattered. Midna doesn't seem capable of using them from the other side, but in a hypothetical sequel, she could figure it out.
Leaving the desert
- At the end of Twilight Princess, after Midna leaves, how did Link and Zelda get out of the Desert without being able to warp? I mean, sure, they could have taken the teleport in the Bonus Dungeon, but how could they have exited the intervening Boss Room?
- Maybe Zelda thought ahead and brought along some rock climbing/grappling equipment. She is more or less the embodiment of wisdom in human form, after all.
- They didn't. They both died of heat stroke shortly thereafter.
- They probably hitched a ride with a giant bird. (Not the one from earlier in the game, but one of the ones that shows up once every second or third game).
- Zelda pulled out the Ocarina of Time and played the Minuet of the Forest, taking Link back to his home and bringing her to within a five minute walk of Hyrule Castle.
- OoT (not to mention the Super Smash Brothers series) showed us that Zelda is perfectly capable of teleportation without needing any kind of portal or ocarina. Link may not be able to warp without help, but Zelda sure as hell can.
- Farore's Wind, then?
- I was considering asking about the same thing. I forgot about the warp (which is better than nothing, if it gets you out of the desert), but I figured they could drop to the floor, take the, what, half a heart of damage, then head roughly south through the rooms until they're out. Then again, the Sages were still hanging around, maybe they could've done something, and we saw Lanayru take Midna and Link from the spirit spring to Hyrule Field, so maybe one or more acted outside their particular province to teleport them? I don't know.
- Hyrule Castle explodes, spraying rubble and shrapnel all over the place, Telma's tavern seems to be doing just fine (it's underground, and all we see of Hyrule Castle Town).
- Not true. We also see the public dancing around the fountain.
Ganondorf and Fused Shadows
- Ganondorf destroys the Fused Shadows. Seriously. So, the Three Goddesses, creators of the entire universe, have to go through all the trouble of creating a parallel universe for banishing the Interlopers to, splitting the Fused Shadows into four pieces and dumping them somewhere (Midna's helmet may have even been sent to the Twilight Realm with the original Interlopers!), creating four magical spirits to guard them (or at least three of them), but they can't destroy the things. If the Three Goddesses couldn't be bothered to do it, couldn't any random Triforce wielder have just obliterated them?
- Ganondorf didn't destroy it, it was just separated into more pieces. Piecing it together would make it fine again.
- Neglectful Precursors. Seriously, if they wanted to stop Ganon, they would have just killed him rather than flood the world in Wind Waker. Alternatively, maybe divine powers can only be used to create, not destroy. Or at least not directly destroy.
- I think it's just that TP Ganondorf is an utter badass and just that much stronger than everything else around — Zelda, Sages, Light Spirits... It is called the Triforce of Power, after all, and I doubt the Triforce is an inferior artifact to the Fused Shadows. (Because, as I recall it, the Goddesses aren't involved; it was the Light Spirits dealing with the Fused Shadows all along, and they're no deities.)
- The Triforce is the most powerful thing in any Zelda title, short of the Three Goddesses themselves, who had nothing to do with the banishing of the Fused Shadows (it's explicitly stated in Ocarina that they've left the world behind, and we've yet to hear any contradiction of this fact). Of the three aspects of the Triforce, the Triforce of Power is a sledgehammer. Powerful though the Fused Shadows may be, they ultimately paled in comparison to the Triforce of Power, as well they should, because the idea that mortal men can create an artifact that is more powerful than the Triforce itself would severely undermine the scale of any and all Zelda games where the Triforce was at stake.
- As was said by Zelda at the end of the game, it was through the Golden Goddesses' design that Link met Midna, hence why they chose to leave the Mirror of Twilight with the sages. Taking this into account, it can be assumed that the same could be said about the Fused Shadows - the Golden Goddesses knew that Zant would overthrow Midna and so opted to leave three of the Fused Shadows with the Light Spirits and one with the Twili - to grant the Twilight Princess an advantage when the events they foresaw were set in motion.
- Like Evil Rocks said at the top. Oh, and on top of that, the Fused Shadows are just left lying on the ground in the middle of Hyrule Field, so if they ARE still dangerous, then WTF!?
- Once Ganondorf has been stuck, Zant then kills him/dies/has very poor ergonomics?
- It's supposed to be symbolic. Zant will be resurrected eternally for as long as Ganondorf survives. Ganondorf dies, so we get a shot of Zant's neck snapping to show that he is truly dead. Unfortunately, they botched the actual look of the snap and it just looks like he's turning his head ever so slightly to the side.
- It could be along the lines of "You betrayed me, Ganondorf! And you were foolish enough to maintain my connection to you while you were at your weakest. It may kill me, but you shall die!"
- After dueling him into the ground, Zelda and Link shishkabob Ganondorf with the Master Sword, causing Ganondorf to... Stand there yammering at them with the Master Sword stuck through him? The scene fades out with a, um, staring contest.
- Not to mention Ganondorf's incredibly WEIRD stabbing face. He looked like a frog with jaw cramps! Or is that PAL only ?
- He died standing up, with his eyes open. Because Ganondorf is just too damn Badass to die falling to the ground.
- Maybe he turned to stone, like in Wind Waker.
Master Sword at the end
- We finally see the Master Sword at rest in Ganondorf's tomb, rammed through his sodden body into the sla... Er, wait. The Master Sword is happily at rest in its forest pedestal. Ganondorf is nowhere to be seen. I find this last point especially grating due to the fact that the entire motivation of the game was a botched attempt to take care of Ganondorf for good.
- Why would they leave the Master Sword stuck in him? There's only two possible ways things could've ended, after all. On one hand, the Master Sword really did finally kill him, so leaving it impaled in his chest would have served no further purpose. On the other hand, this is just a temporary death, in which case, leaving the sword stuck in his chest would just be depriving a future Hero of the only weapon that has a more-than-remote chance of even hurting the guy. As for why Ganondorf was nowhere to be seen... It's pretty much a given that he's going to come back at some point, so the only really appearance he could make in the ending is as a Sequel Hook sort of thing, doing his trademark Evil Laugh. Not a good sense of closure to leave the game on.
- It's symbolic. Showing the Master Sword back in its resting place is an indication that peace has returned, all is well, and there is currently no evil in need of banishing.
- As long as the Master Sword is lodged within him, he's sealed, and can't even send out his mind like he does when he's put in the Sacred Realm, and he can't reincarnate. The only way for him to return at this point is to remove the sword. Barring a New Evil stronger than Ganondorf — which I doubt, not even Vaati counted as that — no Link would be dumb enough to pull the sword knowing it would unleash the King of Evil. Besides, both G-dorf and Master Sword are at the bottom of the bloody ocean, with the magic keeping it all secure and teleportable gone. Kinda hard to get to, even if you knew where it was — and Link's not telling.
- Well, you have to consider that while no Link would be stupid enough to pull the sword out of Ganondorf, any bad guy with a taste for releasing sealed evils would. And then they'd be able to actively keep the Master Sword away from the next Link, who would probably get curbstomped. It may well be a better idea to pull it out and put it somewhere safe for the next time.
- I thought that nobody but Link can draw the Master Sword from its resting place.
- That sounds like the setup for Ōkami — which would explain why it would be a bad idea... Perhaps Link was so Genre Blind that his blindness wrapped around to Dangerously Genre Savvy?
- True enough, but that's Wind Waker, not Twilight Princess. Outside of that, where in canon does it say anything along those lines? For all we know, the Master Sword just drives Ganondorf's spirit out of his body, and he's free to inhabit another body if he can find one, or something equally odd. Nintendo's been pretty vague when it comes to the power of the Master Sword, and even more vague about the extent of Ganondorf's power.
- Its established in the games that the abilities of the Master Sword aren't a constant. It's increased in power during games, like in Link to the Past, and gone down and needed to be recharged, like in Wind Waker or the Oracles. Given that it's gone way up and way down as is in terms of damage, who's to say its magical effects don't vary just as much?
- Which just further reinforces the point that it would be unwise to leave the Master Sword stuck in G-dorf's body, since the sword's power varies so much that it's impossible to know if the bloody seal is going to hold in the first place. Maybe it will, maybe it won't, but either way, it's too much of a risk to leave the good guys' most powerful weapon anywhere that Ganon could get ahold of it. Not to mention that, to my knowledge, the sword by itself has only been used as a seal once, that being in Wind Waker. In all other cases, Link's had either the Sages, the Silver/Light Arrows, the other two Triforce pieces, or some combination of all three to help him out.
- It's stated that no evil can touch the Master Sword, so Ganondorf would not be able to do anything bad to it. He probably could force a random peasant into throwing it into Death Mountain's volcano, however...
- Master Sword aside, what exactly happened to Ganondorf?
- They buried him?
- On the subject of TP, what were the Plot Coupons in Twilight Princess doing where they were? The fused shadows' shards almost make sense if you imagine that the Light Spirits were guarding them for the last few millennia until they were beaten by Zant's minions, their defeat causing the Fused Shadows to “awaken” and start corrupting their resting places (although these resting places are never seen, unless they're the boss chambers). The Mirror Shards, on the other hand, make no real sense at all. After Zant shatters it, he apparently dumps one of them in some random snow, where a yeti happens to stumble on it. The next one they somehow manage to send back in time, along with a bunch of robot spiders. Finally, the last one is given to a dragon that – when confronted – decides to fight Link rather than just flying away.
- Why doesn't Zant just hold on to the Fused Shadows to keep them safe, if he can't just use them himself?
- Why would a dragon with immense power run away from some Peter Pan look-alike with no way of knowing how dangerous Link really was?
- Zant does hold on to them. Pretty much the entire reason you go after Zant in the first place is to recover the Fused Shadows from him. Notice that Midna only uses the Fused Shadows after you hand Zant his kooky ass back to him.
- I'd say it was a backup plan for the goddesses, like how the Triforce split up in OOT. That way, it is difficult but not impossible to rejoin the pieces. The pieces were probably magically teleported as soon as Zant broke them.
- It was meant as Foreshadowing of the fact that Zant isn't the rightful ruler of the Twilight, as he was unable to destroy the Mirror, just like Ganondorf was unable to claim the entire Triforce in Oo T.
- In Twilight Princess, why is everyone in Kakariko so fussed about Colin's health when there are at least three substances with healing properties right there in the village? It's not normal Gameplay and Story Segregation, because Beth even says she mixed two of the three together (water from the spirit spring and water from the hot spring) to make medicine for him.
- I'd imagine it's a weak immune system or something chronic that they're worried about. The springs may alleviate the immediate threats and symptoms, but the underlying problem (whatever it may be) is still there — there's a treatment, but not a cure.
- Plus, the boy just fell into a dead faint right before their eyes, after he just enured a traumatic experience of being kidnapped and lashed onto a pole by the Bokoblin King, and he was only in that predictament because he pushed Beth out of the way. That's way too much physical/emotional trauma for a child like Colin, so naturally they're worried and doing everything they can to help him.
- So why were the kids and Ilia kidnapped from Ordon anyway?
- Heroic motivation?
- So the kidnappers weren't really evil, they were just kind enough to give the hero an excuse to get his little adventure started?
- Well, King Bulbin isn't in particular, anyway.
- To force the villagers to surrender and give them whatever they wanted. There would be no rebellion if the villagers feared for their children.
- Maybe the kidnappers wanted to see if Hyrulians could become shadow creatures, too. If it did work, a bunch of child-sized shadow creatures would be easier to control.
- The bulblins were sent as a vanguard to open the portal which would allow Twilight Beasts to attack the last spirit spring, and they decided while they were there to kidnap a few defenseless people for fun. When this was found out, they were forced to abandon their captives and return to their duties (though not before Ilia was traumatised enough to develop amnesia).
- After sucessfully sacking the village, the Bulblins thought they would celebrate with a victory feast. Unfortunately for them, Link rescued the children before the Bulblins' errand-boy had got back from the grocery store with spices.
Master Sword pedestal
- In Twilight Princess, how did Link know to strike the side of the Master Sword's pedestal with its blade? What would happen if he did that in the present? What if the Hero of Time had done that? How many other hidden functions does the thing have?
- The idea was subtly implanted into his mind by the Master Sword? It wouldn't be the first magic item to do something like that.
- It might not have done anything. If the sword could plant the idea in his mind, it might also be able to affect what commands it gives to the Temple of Time when the conditions to make those commands is active.
- "Strike the side" ? Link clearly jammed the sword into the pedestal then yank it back out, complete with the music from when you did that in Oo T.
- Ah, this video confirms what you said, so I guess my memory was faulty. The video also shows the pedestal strike doing different things in the present (making a statue vanish) and the past (making the ethereal stairway appear,) so I guess the above suggestion about variable commands is correct.
- There's always the reincarnation thing. If Link is a reincarnation of Ocarina of Time's Link, then maybe it was a stray memory.
- If Link were a reincarnation of Ocarina Link, that would make the Hero's Shade, confirmed to be the spirit of Ocarina Link, pretty awkward.
- Link isn't stupid. It's pretty obvious that this is the same pedestal he got the sword from in the first place. Someone who is as used to experimenting with items as he is would naturally wonder what would happen if the room was restored to its proper formation.
- This is a world where people know they're controlled by controller movement. A world where a guy can tell you to tell his kids to hold L when they press A so they can talk to people from a distance. In short, a world that operates on He Knows About Timed Hits. Link — never mind you — saw the A button prompt, and decided pressing it would be a good idea. Him putting the sword in the pedestal was a natural, context-sensitive result of this.
- How do chained locks in front of a door that opens upward or by sliding to the side lock it?
- I'm not going to try and exactly understand what causes it, but perhaps the locking mechanisim is in some sort of grooved notches in the side of the door; I mean, the chains seem pretty taut when you unlock doors. Maybe when you release them, they loosen up and fall free, allowing the door to move/slide freely.
Magnetic walls and ceilings
- In Twilight Princess, when you use the Iron Boots to walk on magnetic walls and ceilings, why does Link's hat still flop towards his back, and not toward whatever direction is down?
- Spiral energy (not really). It's possible that his hair is long enough to hold the back of this hat up, but not long enough to bend opposite the direction it normally does when bound by his hat. That, or the programmers just set it so that his personal gravity was reversed, but thought that wouldn't be "plausible" enough.
- For that matter, why doesn't his hat fall off? Or the bottom of his tunic flip 'up'. Hell, since Link has no trouble unsheathing his sword at a moment's notice, it's doubtful that he fastens it in its scabbard in any way. Imagine the ignominy of being the person who loses the Master Sword in a pit of lava. Just take a deep breath and remember MST3K.
- That bugged me at first, but the longer I look at his hat, the more it looks like the tip is metal, which would be pulled toward the magnet. I never noticed the tunic, but perhaps it's woven into the chainmail, also pulled by the magnet.
- Whoever you are, that's absolutely brilliant, I'm completely at ease now. I award you the Fan Wank Made of Win.
- Related: Link's sword blade is made of metal, and probably >97% iron. Why, then, is it not attracted to the magnetic surfaces?
- Magic. The magic inherent to either the sword or the Triforce of Courage.
- Mythril-plated aluminum isn't ferromagnetic.
- Okay, it says that the Ordon sword is made with goat horns, and the Master Sword is magic. So there.
- Why do Ordon goats have circular horns?
- Why not? It's a fictional breed of goat. They can have whatever kind of horns the developers want.
- At birth, they have two horns, which grow toward each other. When the ends meet, they intertwine to give the illusion of one circular horn. This is just bullshit I made up, but it makes enough sense that I can stop caring, myself.
- Maybe the farmers do it, by piercing a part of their musk-ox like horn and using a series of increasingly large frames and possibly periodic soaking in keratin softeners to sell the horns and skulls for incredibly high prices once the goats die or are slaughtered?
- That's an incredibly pessimistic and cruel view... kudos. But it's not likely. The Light Spirit, Ordona, is a wolf with the horns (horn?) of an Ordon goat... made of light. It's likely what the third person said.
- I saw Ordona as being a goat, period.
Shard in Temple of Time
- In Twilight Princess, how could the Sages have known that the Twilight Mirror Shard was still in the Temple of Time? Link goes back in time to retrieve the Shard, so for all the intervening years between Link taking the Shard and Link stepping back out of the Time Door, the shard is missing from existence altogether. I guess it would have been weird if the Sages told Link "one... was in a forest temple, buuut it vanished years and years ago. But hey, maybe you were the one to take it, which would be good... Time travel is involved, okay." But they seemed so confident that it was still in the grove.
- Because Zant presumably sent it there. Zant didn't pop up until around the point that the Twilight started flooding the Light. Meaning that the shard was sent back in time. Meaning that, while the shard has been in the past for centuries, it's only been there for centuries for the last few weeks. Long story short, Timey-Wimey Ball.
- As speculated above, Zant probably didn't put the shards where they are on purpose, but instead the shards (or some enchantment meant to protect them) teleported themselves there. The malice impregnated into the shards from their use as in one or more genocides are probably what corrupted the Temple of Time and filled it with/lured nearby monsters.
- My thought is that maybe the Temple of Time still exists in the present. You just can't access it in the present because the entrance is blocked. Alternatively, the entire Temple of Time is a hallucination that results in the attraction of a spider that happens to have the mirror shard?
- Here's one. In Twilight Princess, the (creepy) mail guy will hunt you down and give you your mail, crying, "HEY, LINK!" (Or whatever you named him.) Okay, so this is after you gain the ability to freely turn to and from wolf form. When you go into, say, Castle Town, as a wolf, how in the hell does he know it's you? Does he just scream out "HEY, LINK!" to everyone who comes along, regardless if it's human, hoping it's the right person? I mean, even if he learned it was you, how did he know the first time? Eh. . . I dunno. That's my Fridge Logic moment for that game.
- The mental image of the Postman running around calling Link's name to every human and non-human he sees is utterly priceless.
- He has super memory and remembers what you look like from a mile away.
- Oh God, I can't breathe.
- Some people guess that he's a mouthpiece of Farore — it explains why he can see the Twilight when others can't, can recognize Link no matter what form he's in, and is able to get himself anywhere, even the Cave of Ordeals.
- I think it's just a joke on the Unstoppable Mailman trope...What the ideal mailman, the superhero of the American public, might have to soldier through if he were in Hyrule when he delivers his mail. As the creed says: "Neither looming curtain of darkness, nor your recipient being transformed into a wolf, nor 50-floor caves filled with monsters, nor being unable to decide what to eat shall stay this courier from the swift completion of his appointed rounds."
- Why is Midna wearing her Fused Shadow Piece on her head? That makes no sense! It's a) heavy, b) covers one of her eyes (and therefore makes her unable to correctly tell the difference between near and far) c) is like presenting it to the enemy on a silver tablet. Come on, she put away the other three shards too, why was she so obsessed with wearing this one piece on her head?! Was she so fascinated with the fashionable design or something?
- Do you see any pockets on that outfit of hers? Maybe she needs the power from that one on hand to be able to use subspace pockets to hold the rest.
- Alternatively, she needs the power from that one on hand to be able to defend herself in emergencies, as she doesn't want to be caught off-guard.
- Because a magical artifact that powerful might not actually weigh all that much despite it looking like it was made from concrete?
- When I saw the completed Shadows in the inventory screen, I thought it looked exactly like a cuirass, but since Midna was transformed into an imp, she wore it on her head instead of her torso.
- It's definitely a helmet. When Midna transforms into the glowy-spider-thing, the Fused Shadow becomes her head. As for why she's wearing it, there's a WMG (originally used to link the Twili with Majora's Mask) that masks are important to Twili culture. The Shadow Beasts, unused Twilight Assassins (the things flanking Zant when he attacks the throne room), and Zant himself all have coverings over their faces, and the Fused Shadow is a helmet. Also, after you pick up the Ordon Sword and Shield, Midna is under the impression that the shield is meant to be worn over the face. With such a prevalence of masks/helmets, it's possible that Midna felt uncomfortable leaving her face uncovered.
- When the pieces are left on their own, they float. She could easily have put it on her head, and it just kind of stuck there because of how big her head is. Her head was probably the easiest place possible for her to put it.
- Whoa. What if her hindered depth perception is what enables her to help you? Because she can't tell it's too far for you, you make it anyway...
- What is this about one eye and depth perception that I keep hearing? I've spent most of my life with vision in only one eye, and I can judge distances just fine.
- If you have only one eye, you have to shift focus quickly to judge distance. It's not hard, and a lot of people learn to do it without even noticing, but it is harder than just having two eyes. Suddenly losing sight in one eye (either by covering it up or something more violent) often results in people failing to compensate properly and misjudging distance.
- It it just me, or is the presence of a prison where the Spirit Temple used to be a little more than disconcerting? Not only a prision, but a Hylian prison built OVER the Spirit Temple — the Gerudo architecture can still be seen in many places, but the 'arena' and the main foyer are obviously Hylian construction. Pointing out the absence of the Gerudo... and the fact that the temple is *filled* with bones... yeeiigh. If you fit this fact in with the 'child timeline', it makes it look like that when Zelda/Link got Ganondorf apprehended before he got to cause trouble, the King of Hyrule went after ALL the Gerudo... and had them imprisoned? Executed? Fed to the enormous dragon whose skeleton is still at the bottom of the arena pit? There are a lot of scary implications... no wonder Ganondorf is completely crazy in Twilight Princess. The whole being-executed-before-committing-the-crime thing aside, he comes back and sees THE GENOCIDE OF HIS ENTIRE PEOPLE. Yeah, that merits a little more than insanity.
- In Wind Waker, on the other hand, we have Forsaken Fortress in the place where the Gerudo Fortress probably used to be... and it's gotta have that name (forsaken) for some reason. And the Spirit Temple was replaced by the Fairy Queen's Fountain, leaving no sign of its Gerudo-origins whatsoever, except the shape of the islands (Just the same as Arbiter's grounds, the Fairy Queen resides in the room beneath where the Twilight Mirror would be). So, let's just say, the goddesses and Hylians probably really, really hated the Gerudo for what Ganondorf did to them. So they killed them and used their temple as a prison in one timeline and gave it to the great fairies in the other. Poor Gerudo...
- Plus, Ganondorf's Motive Rant in Wind Waker implies that his entire motivation for conquering Hyrule was so that the Gerudo wouldn't have to live in a friggin' desert and steal stuff to survive. I mean, they probably had to dive off a cliff to get water, then swim all the way to Lake Hylia and hike back to the desert. Granted, the distance between Lake Hylia and the Gerudo Desert isn't very far in OoT (which I'm basing this "how the hell do the Gerudos get anything to drink" query on), but still, having to jump off a cliff to get water, while amusing to envision, can't really be good for one's health... Anyways, imagine what Ganondorf must have been thinking when he realized that the people of Hyrule killed off the entire Gerudo race because he tried to take over their kingdom. No wonder he wanted to crush it (in TP, he worked with Zant to suck Hyrule into the Twilight Realm, which as mentioned earlier on the page, was hugely damaging to the Hylian people; in WW's prologue, it's implied that Ganon practically burned Hyrule to the ground before the goddesses flooded it. So, yeah... he must have been seriously pissed off).
- As OOT proved, wasn't genocide the sort of crap that lead to the Sheikah constructing the frigging Shadow Temple?
- And while we're on the topic of weird things being built in weird places, I draw your attention to the Zora grave in Kakariko village. Where is it located? In the back of the graveyard. Specifically, on the ledge at the far end, with some seriously spooky writing on it, and dead trees surrounding it. What connects to the graveyard? The well. Why is the sacred resting place of the Zora the Shadow Temple?
- The Kakariko Village of TP is different than the village of OOT. The Hidden Village is clearly the remains of the OOT Kakariko (this is supported by a sign in the village reading "Welcome to Old Kakarico" in Hylian). Thus, the Zora grave has nothing to do with the Shadow Temple, as it is in a completely different place.
- Actually, the Arbiter's Grounds and the Hidden Village are nowhere near the Spirit Temple and Ocarina!Kakariko. Based on the one confirmed fixed point between these two games, the Master Sword's pedestal, we can show that Ocarina!Kakariko is south of the Faron section of Hyrule Field, while the Spirit Temple is 2-3 days walk south of the Arbiters Grounds.
Shard getting in Temple of Time
- How did a Piece of the Mirror of Twilight end up in the Temple of Time? I mean, you had to move the Master Sword to get in, so how did it get there? Ganon most certainly didn't know how to get in and out of the sacred realm because in THIS timeline he's never been there! So how did Zant put the piece there?
- It's suspected in an earlier IJBM that the shard teleported itself there when Zant broke the mirror.
- It can't be too difficult to someone with at least a portion of the Triforce of Power's abilities to defy physical limitations and do something like that.
- How is Stallord able to roar without lungs or vocal chords?
- When Midna uses the Fused Shadow to turn into the big, pulsing, Twilit spider-squid monster with the glowing spear, she has enough power to shatter the impenetrable magic barrier around Hyrule Castle. If she's that powerful, wouldn't it have been easy to just level the entire castle rather than Link having to go through all that crap to get to Ganondorf?
- A. You think that really would've done anything? Considering Midna hit Ganondorf point blank with all her power, and still lost, probably not. B. Doing that would have pretty much killed any chance of helping Zelda, don't you think?
- Point taken, but the fact remains that Super Duper Midna could have smashed her way through the castle to get to Ganondorf, thus saving Link all the trouble of slaying monsters and collecting keys. In fact, she could have just killed the enemies for him with no effort, again saving him a lot of time and trouble. In the scene where she kills Zant, she's shown as being extremely powerful even without going through the whole transformation thing. And this is Zant she's killing. He's not exactly a pushover. Hell, she could have just teleported herself and Link directly to the throne room, since it's a pretty good guess that that's where Ganondorf would be. She's POWERFULLY MAGIC, for crying out loud, and she barely uses it even when it might be useful. And yes, I am aware that there would be no final dungeon if she did that. I'm just saying is all.
- One interpretation of the end of that cutscene (the part where Midna wakes up in Link's arms) as meaning that breaking the barrier took so much power that the Fused Shadows had to recharge afterward, or something along those lines.
- If she just started smashing through the castle to provide Link with a shortcut, she might have accidentally knocked down something important (like a load-bearing column or arch) and cause the whole castle to topple down, killing Link and Zelda.
- Ganondorf is seated in a throne room looking out through an enormous open balcony at top of the castle's highest tower; she wouldn't even have to smash through anything, just climb up and deposit Link there.
- I figured that when she used all that power to break through the barrier, it was so strong that her body couldn't handle it any more, so she reverted, and needed substantial time to rest up so she could do it again.
- There's a temple at the bottom of Lake Hylia, the endpoint of the water that flows through Hyrule, referred to as Lakebed Temple. To enter it, you have to dive deep into the lake (once it's been refilled). There are large air pockets inside, but ultimately the entire temple is underwater. To reach the boss, you wear iron boots and dive for at least twenty seconds from the central (and not near the top) room of the temple. Yet, when you defeat the boss, it accidentally rams into the wall near the bottom of its massive chamber... causing the entirety of water to leak out. Basically, where did all that water go? Water simply doesn't leak unless there's air below its position! Is Lake Hylia, and the rest of Hyrule, positioned in a small valley atop a mountain or something?
- I really don't want to use the A Wizard Did It excuse... but, oh what the hell; A Wizard Did It! (Actually, this is one of the most glaring and most IJBM moment of Twilight Princess for me! Seriously it really bugs me that the entire huge-ass, water filled room drains all of its water... INTO water! If anything, that crack would have flooded the water temple...)
- Perhaps the temple was pressurized? I'm grasping at straws here, but it may explain how a temple which is entirely underwater has any places which aren't covered in water. Thus, when the wall broke, the pressure (somehow) pushed all the water out as the temple equalized.
- OR Hyrule follows the Hollow Earth design, all the water escaping into a cavern even deeper beneath the temple.
- Hyrule is set in the most recent Dwarf Fortress build?
- I thought it looked like the boss sucked up all the water... somehow... but I might have seen wrong.
Transforming in front of animals
- So you can't transform in front of people, but animals are okay? Wouldn't they be just as freaked out to see a Ordonian transforming into a wolf with an imp jumping onto his back?
- I've theorized it's because they're incapable of communicating with humans so there's no real danger in them witnessing Link transform. Zoras and Gorons don't seem to care if they see Link in Wolf Form but Midna won't let you transform infront of them, which would make sense because they could tell someone what they saw.
- On a related note, does nobody notices Link's transformations just as long as he's not directly in front of them? Nobody notices Link suddenly disappearing and a wolf suddenly appearing?
- Why would the animals care? And yeah, the second thing's a bit weird.
- Well, there's been evidence that some of the dark creatures can teleport... who says that Link couldn't have just run off and this dark wolf creature teleports in to start havoc immediatly afterwards? (Of course, depending on how often you transform like that, this argument gets streched thinner and thinner...)
- Apparently, you smell the same as a wolf and as a human, and animals use scent for identification a lot more than humans do. But then, why you can't demonstrate that you, that nice guy whom they've known all their lives (in the case of the Ordon children and Ilia), all your life (in the case of the Ordon adults), or at some point after the adventure began, are the same as the wolf who mysteriously doesn't hurt them, just by changing, then changing back, is, in-universe, a mystery. Of course, the more obvious reason is... can you imagine having to program in the Event Flags that keep track of who's seen you do that, and when? Like, maybe it'd alleviate the fears of those who know you, but it'd mean not so much to the random stranger who doesn't.
- On that subject, even replaying the game, I half expected Link to (silently, or during a momentary camera blackout), tell Rusl something like "Oh, well... I was kind of turned into a wolf by the dark stuff that blocked the country to the north, and needed to borrow a sword and shield, and since you didn't need these until Hyrule Castle was opened..." in response to the pre-scripted, unavoidable lamentation that a dark monster stole the sword and shield that Link just brought back.
- If the Iron Boots are so heavy that even Gorons have trouble moving someone who wears them, then how is Link, a Hylian, able to push other Gorons while wearing them?
- Leverage. Wrestling, even sumo wrestling, is about more than sheer weight and strength. Weight certainly plays a part, which is why you need the boots, but I know from experience that a smaller person can win such a match if they get leverage on their opponent. Plus, Link is shown right off to be the kind of guy that can stop a galloping goat with his bare hands.
- Maybe the Hero's Clothes had a free pair of Power Bracelets included.
King and Queen
- Where's the King? Where's the Queen? If she's the ruler, how come she's Princess Zelda and not Queen Zelda? So Hyrule's a Principality now?
- Considering a King has been mentioned in some games, it could be a patriarchal monarchy situation. The title of Queen could only be applied to the King's wife, but only heirs with the King's royal blood were capable of actually ruling as co-regent. Meaning, he would train his daughter in ruling matters in case he had no sons, and if he died before his wife, Zelda would be the authority though still holding the official title of Princess.
- Or alternatively, they just inbreed to the highest degree. When repeated familial intermarriages are the norm, differentiating between queen and princess might be really difficult. Especially when they are all named the same thing (I'm thinking of the Ptolemy line here, every male was named Ptolemy and every female was either Arsinoe, Berenice or Cleopatra. They didn't use roman numerals either, historians use those to try and straighten out the timeline). Could be Fridge Brilliance considering how murky the timeline and re-tellings of Zelda's legends are: Much like historians, Nintendo kind of just hope for the best and makes revisions based on current research/feedback.
- As another alternative, Hyrule (at the time Twilight Princess takes place at least) could be a principality instead of an actual kingdom. For the uninitiated, a principality is functionally the same thing as a kingdom, except that the ruler is titled Prince (or Princess) without there being a King or Queen above them.
- Which brings me onto the issue of the Throne Room. It's a the top of a very insanely large tower of a very insanely large castle. Throne rooms are used for official ceremonies, granting audiences, receiving homages, granting awards, etc. So, a visiting dignitary has to climb that freaking tower to get to the Throne Room? Zelda's not very sociable, is she?
- Consider that Ganondorf had already taken over the castle by that time. He could have used his magic to change around the castle's architecture specifically to make it harder for Link to progress.
- This is what bugs me about most Zelda games. Maybe it's because if they ever introduced a king, everyone would expect him to say "Mah boi" all the time, I don't know. Similarly, I'm convinced that the 80's Zelda cartoon and the CD-I games are why Nintendo won't let Link speak anymore.
- I would like to go on record as stating that it seriously bugs me that that argument is so commonly accepted and repeated among the fandom. It would be a strawman argument if not for how many people take it seriously. "It would absolutely be an awful thing to give Link dialog! I mean, just look at the cartoon and the CD-i games!" That Nintendo had essentially zero involvement in the story and characterizations of both of those projects never seems to occur to anyone.
- I would like to go on record as stating that Zelda did introduce a king and he swiftly became one of the most beloved characters of the franchise, and that was one game prior to Twilight Princess's release. The argument of "Nintendo can't release a game with the king in it because of the CD-I games" is invalid.
- To answer your question, according to Zelda's Brawl trophy, Zant came and took over Hyrule on the same day as her coronation, so she never became a queen. No idea why she wasn't crowned at the end of the game, though.
- I don't think too much time had passed between the final boss battle and Midna leaving. I think Midna would've been anxious to get home and sort out Zant's mess, so they probably went straight from the final battle to Arbiter's Grounds. Just a thought.
- Hylian geography. I've been hurting my brain trying to piece together how the geography of Twilight Princess relates to OoT. The ruined Temple of Time clearly looks like it could have been the same one from OoT. So that would mean that the old Hyrule Castle Town existed in what is now overgrown forest. And that would mean that the new Castle Town was moved several miles North. But then why are Death Mountain, Kakariko Village, and Lake Hylia in such radically different positions? Maybe Hyrule sits on some very active plate boundaries that have shifted the land dramatically? Or maybe they are all actually different places but were given the same names as places from the old Hyrule, when the Hylians were forced to migrate North for some reason?
- You know, I know this is a crazy idea, but maybe thinking about exact things from "chronological game" to "chronological game" is stupid.
- If you actually compare maps of Hyrule across the series, the positions of landmarks do match up suprisingly well. The position of the Master Sword in Twilight Princess even plays with this by showing the Temple of Time from Ocarina Of Time turn into the Lost Woods from A Link To The Past.
- That said, they do take liberties for the sake of gameplay, and the map of this game does blur things a bit more than usual. The biggest trick to keep in mind here is that they flipped the map and turned it upside down. (Which, oddly enough, makes the Wii version more "accurate", since it reset the flipping. The movement of the sun in that version suddenly becomes accurate too if you change your perception of North.)
Powering Magic Armor
- How can anyone not question Link using Rupees to power the Magic Armor?
- Hey, in the first game, shooting arrows drains your Rupees.
- I remember someone theorizing that Rupees make good arrowheads, due to being sharp-edged.
- Someone did.
- It's quite simple. The armour gives the wearer a direct line to Death, which Link uses to bribe him to keep him alive longer. As Discworld has shown us, Death needs to hire outside assistance to help with his plumbing, and he needs to be able to pay the plumber somehow.
- That would explain why getting hit drains rupees, but what about simply wearing it? Are we expected to believe that it's heavy enough to crush Link beneath its weight?
Yuri Ship Tease
- So did anyone else get a small romantic vibe between Zelda and Midna in Twilight Princess, or is it just wishful thinking?
- I saw it too, but I am no Yuri-fangirl, so I try to ignore it.... Still. Midna was indowed with Zelda's freakin' soul by her, for crying out loud! Nobody can deny that that has something romantic.
- Ilia, damn you all. Link and Ilia is the closest thing to canon romance in the whole damn series.
- And you think that, because...? Look, in Phantom Hourglass, there's loads of evidence towards Link x Tetra, then, in Link's Awakening, there are at least a thousand clues towards Link x Marin. Oh, and in Ocarina of time, Mido even ADMITS that Saria probably had the hots for Link. Now, Ilia is not anymore romantically involved with him than any of those other girls. But, you know what? There is NO such thing as canon romance in Zelda! BECAUSE IT'S A NINTENDO GAME, GET OVER IT! If you want Canon romance, go play Final Fantasy X.
- Anju and Kafei would like to have a word with you. Although admittedly, they are the exception, and most people probably add "involving the protagonist" in the back of their minds when the phrase 'canon romance' comes up.
- It's pretty obvious that Link and Ilia are bf/gf in this game.
- Not really. Link just has this rare disease that causes every scene he does with a female around his own age to look like something freshly ripped from the pages of a romance novel. Remember when Midna passes out after breaking the barrier around the castle, and after the fade-out the scene fades back in to her in his arms, and he's smiling at her?
- But Zelda and Midna, man...
- Might I ask why it seems that so many relationships between people of the same gender are thought of as being romantic? Isn't there a way for people to just be really close friends? It makes sense that Midna and Zelda would be so close as friends - they were both dethroned just prior to their coronations by events beyond their control, both of them were forced to watch as their kingdoms and subjects were reduced to so little...not to mention Midna was quite cruel to Zelda in the beginning before she came to appreciate her more. They have many reasons to respect one another without having to be subjected to shipping by the fans.
Moblins after Bulbin
- When you defeat King Bulbin for the last time in Twilight Princess, he tells you his people always follow the strongest. Then he leaves, never to be seen again. Fair enough. But WHY, WHY do the Moblins under his command stay in the castle? You just defeated their boss, so why aren't they: a) running the hell out of there; b) following your orders, as new chief of the Moblin tribe, aiding you in storming the castle? Yes, I realize if they did either, The Group couldn't have pulled off their Big Damn Heroes moment, but come on! How'd they get in the castle anyway?
- Ganondorf influenced the weak-minded mooks?
- This one is probable. Note how monsters act up in every era whenever Ganon(dorf) is getting active, even species that hadn't existed last time he was around (Bokoblins, mini-moldworms) or species that hadn't counted as "monsters" before, like the Zora/Zola in 2D games. Chances are he has some mumbo-jumbo that makes feral creatures and/or anything with darkness in its heart serve his will, knowingly or unknowingly. He isn't called the "King of Evil" for nothing, after all.
- Because they all forgot to plug in their smart phones and none of them got the text message. /sarcasmmode I see it as realistic that the minions throughout the castle thought they were still on Ganon's side for a couple more hours.
Killed off for real
- Can someone please explain to me why some people think Ganon is Killed Off for Real as of TP despite his countless resurrections?
- Because he's dead as opposed to sealed away like people usually think of him. This is only the second or third time he's been killed killed, as opposed to sealed killed. Just because he's dead doesn't mean he won't reincarnate and/or get resurrected by some malicious ritual. It's just to contrast that a ritual or reincarnation is needed in this regard, as opposed to a door of some sort.
- Resurrected? Sure. Reincarnated? Unlikely, as noone is reincarnated in this series except possibly the Owl Kaepora Gaebora.
- Noone is outright stated to reincarnate. The moment they come up with a non-reincarnation reason for why dozens people spread out over the millennia all look, fight, and act exactly the same, have an outfit embedded in their soul, and occasionally get born with a mystic artifact embedded in their left hand, we will stop talking about reincarnation
- We're still talking about reincarnation despite the fact that the Hero's Shade in this very game actively disproves reincarnation by virtue of its very existence? Also, dozens of people spread out over the millennia actually look quite different from one another with only superficial similarities between them (the tunic and long ears), and only act the same if you consider it in extremely broad terms (they all fight Ganon, and they wield swords). LttP Link is, for example, the only Link in the series to repeatedly demonstrate that he is an unrepentant thief. Other Links might break a couple pots and take what they find, but LttP Link frequently commits acts of breaking and entering, bombing holes in people's living rooms, stealing rupees from their wall safes, etc. Additionally, while Ocarina Link is a socially awkward introvert who screams and runs away any time anyone in the series tries to show him affection, be it Saria, Darunia, or Ruto, or freezing up when Talon offered for Link to marry malon, Twilight Link has mutually affectionate relationships bordering on romantic with both Ilia and Midna, and Skyward Link had several successful personal relationships including the closest thing to a canon romance ever to appear in a Zelda game with Zelda herself (though some may argue The Wind Waker Link and Tetra).
- Oddly enough, I don't think the Hero's Shade disproves reincarnation. The western and eastern perception of the soul don't entirely match up. For example, take Xenogears, where the main character, Fei, is a reincarnation of Lacan, who's hate and regret still exists simultaneously during Fei's time as Grahf. It's entirely possible that the Hero's Shade represents only a part of him, and the reincarnated TP Link is the rest.
- Conversly, some people also say that Ganondorf is Deader Than Dead in The Wind Waker as well, for the same reasons as in Twilight Princess. This would make him Killed Off for Real in BOTH timelines, which, well, doesn't really work out, since where do we place the one dozen remaining Zelda games than? Before Ocarina of Time? He must have survived at least one of those two Stab-Attacks... or some kind of evil Witchkraft guy decided to resurrect him shortly before a Link to the Past for some reason, I don't know...
- Actually, we have a second Ganon to take care of that — Trident Ganon of FSA.
- Seeing as the direct sequels to Wind Waker haven't featured Ganondorf again to date (not taking into account the timeline), I think it's safe to assume that he is Deader Than Dead there too.
- We've seen at least two ways of resurrecting him: in Zelda 2, his Mooks could bring him back using Link's blood, and in the Oracle games, his mother(s) could bring him back via a ritual involving chaos and sorrow on an international level — both of which bring him back from true 100% death. We've seen by comparing Four Swords Adventure and Ocarina of Time that he gets reincarnated into a nigh-identical life at least once — perhaps more offscreen. Chances are pretty damn good he's been resurrected and reincarnated via the same methods or other methods several other times in both timelines, we simply haven't seen or played those resurrections, reincarnations, and sealings... yet.
- It's a lot more likely FSA Ganon is a completely different Ganon if you actually read the story.
- It has been theorized that the Triforce of Power grants its wielder immortality. If that's true, Wind Waker Ganondorf would have died, as he gave it up to reform the Triforce. Twilight Princess Ganondorf still had it, and so will probably be up and kicking within a week.
- Except he didn't have it at the very end. When he tried to use it after Link shoved the Master Sword into his chest, it abandoned him, the mark disappeared from his hand, and thus he died.
- I'm sorry, I never had a Gamecube, can somebody tell me why the FSA version of Ganondorf is different from the other ones? I looked it up on Zeldapedia, but there's not enough information there to suggest that he's actually a separate character. And to the person who thought that Ganondorf was deader than dead in the WW timeline because he wasn't in either of the DS games: Ganon is almost never in handheld games. His only handheld appearance to date is in a linked Oracle game. In contrast, he is in every console game except Zelda 2 (in which part of your goal is to prevent his resurrection, ergo, he is still a major part of story) and Majora's Mask. Ganon's non-appearance in a handheld title means next to nothing.
- The idea in the overall timeline is that after Ganondorf was killed in Twilight Princess, he was eventually reincarnated and thus appears in Four Swords Adventures, as well. Ganondorf's absence from the DS games is due to the fact that neither of them take place in Hyrule, as it was destroyed and left to crumble away at the bottom of the Great Sea, and conquering Hyrule was always Ganondorf's ulterior motives. This was all explained in The Wind Waker - with his motivation destroyed, he ended up dying with it.
- Ganondorf is Killed Off for Real. But nobody ever said anything about Ganon.
- According to the Official Timeline, there are three timelines branching out of Ocarina. As it stands now, Ganon is dead in all three timelines, having been killed in Twilight Princess, The Wind Waker, and the original NES Zelda. Ganondorf's reincarnation in Four Swords Adventures is anomalous, but as there have been frequent resurrection attempts made on Ganon, the prospect of Link reincarnating has been disproven as of Twilight Princess, and the only character confirmed to reincarnate as of Skyward Sword has absolutely no connection between the reincarnation and the Triforce, it's too early to say whether or not Four Swords Adventure is proof that Ganondorf does reincarnate, or if that one anomaly has an explanation that simply has not yet been revealed.
- Doesn't matter if he's killed or not. Skyward Sword confirms that Demise's curse will ensure that there is always a Ganondorf or Ganon or someone similar.
- And FSA Ganon is TP Ganondorf's reincarnation anyways.
Fighting the stronger repeatedly
- The whole I Fight for the Strongest Side scene. Fair enough, he presumably comes from a culture raised by that philosophy, but he's fought Link three or four times by then! Why did it take him that long to figure out that the guy who kept beating him was stronger than he was?
- He wasn't sure if Link was stronger than his current master or not. Link was always stronger than him, but he wasn't certain if Link was stronger than Ganondorf/Zant yet.
- By the way, four if you count the chase fight as being different from the fight on the Bridge of Eldin. What bugs me slightly is that the last two times were pretty much exactly the same. Or maybe there's some difference I just never see because Back Slice, sword until he blocks, repeat until you win is effective both times. Maybe if he'd worn armor that could only be broken by hitting it with the Ball-and-Chain three times, and you'd have to break it to even get to do any damage to him would've been more of an indicator that you merit that kind of respect. As it is, he only gives you your due in the same kind of fight that led him to try to kill you with boar-dom — er, smoke inhalation — the last time.
- This game follows the child's timeline, correct? So that means Ganondorf was stopped before he conquered Hyrule, thus the original Link never became the Hero of Time. If that's the case, why are allusions are still made back to Ocarina of Time, talking about the legacy of the green clothes and the Master Sword?
- I don't know, maybe the Light Spirits and the Godesses were all having a nice beer, and one of the Goddesses was all like "Hey man, you see that dude over there, he like killed an evil green desert dude. He's so awesome, let's have him honored on both timelines, even the one where he never killed desert dude, 'cause that's how we roll." ....I have come to the conclusion that the Goddesses of Hyrule are always drunk. Maybe that's why they never thought to just strike Ganondorf with lightning or something pre-Wind Waker.
- Notice that everyone is going on about the "Hero of Time" in Wind Waker, but in this game he's just a title-less hero. Young Link still did heroic things while wearing green clothes. The Master Sword still existed, too; history was just rewritten so it wasn't used in that time period.
- My guess is they're not referring to Ocarina's Link, but one of his descendants who comes between him and Twilight Princess'.
- They could also be referring to the Link from Skyward Sword
- Well, it's never exactly made clear how Link and Zelda got Ganondorf arrested in the Majora's Mask timeline. There are some theories that Link used knowledge of the future to help Zelda convince the king that Ganondorf is evil. Thus, I've kind of been assuming that Link could still be called the Hero of Time even in the MM timeline if he knows the future. Plus, even though that section of OOT doesn't actually exist in the TP branch, Majora's Mask does, so combining Link's heroics in that game with the whole knowledge-of-the-future theory explains why he would still have a legacy in this game.
- the flashback in MM where Link remembers the Song of Time implies that when Link returned to his childhood after Adult Zelda sent him back, Zelda was able to also implant her younger self with memories of the Future. Presumably she sent Link back to before their first meeting and before Ganondorf made his move, as the final shot of OOT indicates. Once Zelda became Queen, she made the actions of their alternate selves known to the kingdom.
- In the child timeline, Ganondorf was stopped by a 10 year old kid in green clothing who had an almost supernatural knowledge of the coup that Ganondorf was about to lead. This lead to the salvation of the kingdom and the continuation of the Royal lineage. If nothing else, he would be remembered for that. As for the Master Sword, it's the Master Sword. It's a central piece of their mythology.
- To add to what's stated above, he goes on to save an entirely other world from a falling moon being controlled by a psychotic and evil mask.
- Even if Oo T Link stopped Ganondorf from conquering Hyrule, he had still caused a lot of trouble to the Goron and Zora. Presumably Link cleared Dodongo's Cavern and Jabu-Jabu's Belly once more after his little talk with Zelda, and started being regarded as a hero for those actions. It's also interesting to notice that some of the more striking references to said hero come exactly from these two races (one of which treasures a bow that belonged to him, the other one having some armour that was made for him to use), not from the Hylians themselves.
- Malo Mart. First of all, the Castle Town Shop sells items marked up by thousands of Rupees, and yet Malo is able to buy the whole shop for a mere 1000 Rupees. I realize that after the bridge was rebuilt, the availability of cheap goods from Kakariko Village would have undercut the Castle Shop's profitability, but 1000 Rupees for the whole shop is ridiculous.
- Link invested at least 1200 Rupees towards rebuilding the bridge and acquiring the Castle Shop, yet never receives any dividends for it, or even a discount at the shop.
- Of course, once it becomes a branch of Malo Mart, he can get the items sold there for half the price you pay at most other shops. Contrast with the Gorons who set up shop there and charge more than the usual for Lantern Oil (30 vs. 20), Red Potions, and Arrows (40 vs. 30).
- One possible explaination: Malo somehow found a stock of Rupoors and snuck them into the Castle Shop's Rupee storage. With all his funds destroyed, Chudley was forced to sell for whatever he could get. That's not screwy economics, that's underhanded business. (Of course, there's no way to actually prove this.)
- In light of the fact that rupoors don't seem to exist in Twilight Princess, I have a different theory. Malo Mart's Castle Town branch began as a kiosk, but their low, low prices for high, high quality products and catchy theme music quickly drove the comparatively less-affordable, humorless shop out of business, and Malo was able to buy the property for what must have been a fraction of its actual value. In short, basic capitalism prevailed, granting victory to the Hero of Discounts.
- Maybe it's because we don't actually get to see it on-screen, but Ilia's subplot totally makes no sense to me. So she was kidnapped, somehow ended up hiding out with an old cat lady in a remote village you can't even get into before a Goron clears a rock slide, and then somehow is wandering along in Hyrule field when she finds a dying Zora boy who she takes to Castle Town, and somewhere along the way she loses her memory, for some unexplained reason. And all before Link finally gets to Castle Town himself. Though I don't really feel strongly about her either way, I can kind of see why some of the fanbase thinks she's a Damsel Scrappy.
- I figured it went like this — the bulbins take her and the kids, but Ilia is taken off on her own since the Bulbins probably... ehh, 'appreciate' her more than their other catches, so they take her up to one of their hangouts in the Hidden Village. The poison in the arrow that shot her, along with trauma, affects her brain and shoves her memories to the back of her head. But even an amnesic knows that creepy monsters are creepy, so she breaks free from them at first chance. She runs but can't get far, but then Impaz (who heard her trying to escape) lets her into her house and they hide out together for a little while. Impaz helps with the poison, and Ilia's trauma keeps her memories at bay. Impaz thinks that someone young and spry like Ilia could have a chance to get out, so Impaz creates a distraction (like slingshoting rocks at an explosive barrel or something) which gives Ilia enough time to escape the hidden village. Something causes a rockfall which blocks the bulbins off from chasing her and seals the entrance to the town. She wanders around in Hyrule field, trying to find some place to go, finds the Zora prince on her way, and they both go to Castle Town together. They spend a little time with Telma, but his condition gets worse and Ilia tries to help... then Link gets there.
- I've heard that Ilia's amnesia was due to her being shot with a poisoned arrow, though this still begs the question of how she could relate the stories of Link she told to Impaz if she shouldn't have been able to remember them. It's possible Impaz had some other way out of the village, maybe beneath all the wreckage in her house, and she let Ilia escape through it and go seek help before covering it up afterward so the Bulblins wouldn't try to follow her, and as she was making her way up the road toward Hyrule Castle, she came across Prince Ralis colapsed in the road after he'd been sent to get help from Zora's Domain.
- Sky City: highest point in Hyrule. Boss battle spot: highest point in Sky City. Boss battle: using the Clawshots to climb up some giant towers, using the Iron Boots to slam a giant dragon into the ground, using the Clawshots again to traverse the air, clinging to the back of said giant dragon, and stabbing at it with a sword. Clawshots: metal. Towers: metal. Iron Boots: metal. Giant dragon: armored in metal. Sword: metal. Battle setting: middle of a lightning storm. To reiterate: Link is at the highest altitude humanly possible, covered in metal, attached to metal, and inside of a cloud that is shooting lightning. Do you see my question?
- I do, and I've got an answer for you: The whole thing isn't grounded.
- Electrical current prefers the way of least electrical resistance, and since metal is a pretty good conductor, everything is shiny as long everything is in contact with each other. Another relevant point is, if Sky City is big enough to span an area of a thunderstorm with a decent differing voltage, it doesn't matter it's not being grounded, the city would still qualify as an conductor (resulting in - best case scenario - a bolt impacting Shy City on one end and on the opposite end another bolt being emitted by Sky City, depending on the conductivity of the city's materials). And to elaborate the former speaker's argument, lighting bolts hit higher places more often due to them being closer to the sky and therefore there being much less electrical resistance to cross the distance clouds->ground. Since Sky City isn't connected to the ground (i.e. grounded), it probably has the same electrical charge as the clouds surrounding it.
- The peahats were insulators.
Nearby Light Spirits
- Why are there two Light Spirits just a bridge's walk away from each other?
- Said bridge technically crosses the divide between Ordon and Hyrule. This doesn't explain why Faron hangs out so close to the southern border and Ordona so close to the northern border. Maybe it's because Ordon is so small, but even in the US, Providence is well over a half hour's drive away from the nearest state capital, Boston.
- The Hero's Shade is generally accepted to be the previous Link from Ocarina of Time, who saved both Hyrule and Termina and was never seen from again. He appears to TP Link in order to pass on the lost fighting techniques of the Hero of Time. The problem is, why are none of the moves he teaches present in OoT or MM? That is, except for the "Great Spin", because Link was able to perform the magic spin, but that's still a stretch. Does this imply that the Hero of Time went on to have more adventures to learn more moves after Majora's Mask? The Hero's Shade is, in fact, an adult, and the Hero of Time was only a child when we saw him last.
- And in case anyone forgot, the hidden skills he teaches you are: The ending blow, shield attack, back slice, helm splitter, mortal draw, jump strike, and great spin.
- And the back slice is WW Link's parry attack. Seriously. Look at the animations.
- One of them. The other is the helm splitter, which just strengthens the point.
- There is also the fact of the Link in Soul Calibur II for the Gamecube (I know it is a crossover, but Link does do those in that game) and at the end he goes from the Soul Calibur world back into Hyrule; it could be the Child Link all grown up.
- Seeing as the Hero's Shade probably lived and died after many years and in Majora's Mask Link was only ten years old, it would be safe to assume that N64!Link learned those moves as he aged.
- Of course he had more adventures. The whole reason Link ended up in Termina in Majora's Mask was because he was searching for Navi. By the end of MM, he still has not found her, and it's reasonable to assume he just continues searching and adventuring and picks up these moves along the way. Sadly, it seems he never did find her.
Midna and the Twilight Princess
- So just about everybody by now knows that Midna is the Twilight Princess. The question is, she refers to Zelda as the Twilight Princess when you first meet her in the game. Is this just a hint of snarkiness on her part since Zelda's a captive princess in the Twilight Realm, or is there some deeper conniving going on here?
- The developers' reason for doing that is that they didn't want to spoil that Midna was the Twilight Princess, so they used Zelda as a scapegoat so that the players would accept that the title refers to Zelda as opposed to Midna. The in-game reason is that Midna, ashamed of how low she has sunk, doesn't want anybody to know that she, a defeated imp, is the princess of the Twilight Realm. She neglects to tell anyone, and uses her own title to refer to Zelda just to be snarky. She outright says she doesn't care about Link, Zelda, or the world of light and probably just wanted to say something to make Zelda feel bad to make herself feel better.
Day and night
- Why does day turn into night, and vice versa, so quickly when you are snowboarding against Yeto and Yeta?
- Time Flies when you are having fun.
- So why does day turn into night, and vice versa, so quickly when I'm snowboarding against Yeto and Yeta?
- You no like fun, huh?
- It could be because of the poe that's right outside the Mansion. If someone managed to snowboard at the wrong time (without rapid day/night cycle), then they would have to wait a very long time just for nightfall to make it appear. But if you put in the rapid day/night cycle with snowboarding, then the player could easily speed up the wait time.
- Actually, the Poes in the Peak Province appear there regardless of whether it's day or night, likely due to the fact that the blizzards make it so difficult to tell.
- No, I'm pretty sure I've gotten up to the top of that bluff when the Imp wasn't there and waited, and watched it appear. However, the blizzards do make it somewhat difficult to tell... if it's day or night.
- Is it me or nobody in Hyrule Castle Town seems to notice the barrier around the castle? Were they all brainwashed by Ganondorf? Why are there guards and none of them is alarmed? Why does nobody notice a giant spider abomination climbing on the barrier and destroying it? Is Hyrule Castle Town populated by idiots?
- Actually, the canon explanation seems to be a mix of idiocy and denial. You can actually talk to a Goron in a tower overlooking the courtyard who comments on the barrier and basically complains about how apathetic the residents are.
- Does that Goron mention the barrier specifically, though? I thought he just comments on something about how the "air" around the castle seems funny...My theory is that the barrier isn't exactly visible to normal people, as otherwise, someone would want to do something to investigate it, but at the same time, there is some sort of magic present that subconsciously keeps people from coming close to the castle...Something like the Stone Mask, I suppose.
Ganondorf in throne room
- Why did Ganondorf lock himself up in the throne room? Was he expecting Link to come and thought "I'll just wait for him here, and magically lock the outer side of the door so that he'll have to look for the boss key"?
- Aside from getting to greet a bedraggled, tired, likely annoyed Link, it might have been a trial of sorts. In Wind Waker, Ganondorf only recognized Link as worthy of the Hero of Time's legacy after Link had fought through his tower and beaten his puppet. Ganondorf might have been similarly testing this Link to see if he lived up to his heroics, and was a worthy opponent. (Though not to compare him to the Hero of Time, since the confrontation at the end of Ocarina never happened in this timeline.)
- Also, Ganondorf's grown smarter by the time this game rolls around...I know he did in The Wind Waker, too, but he still had enough honor to him to recognize Link as a hero worthy of facing and potentially falling to him in battle. In Twilight Princess, he was able to use Zant's hatred to escape the Twilight Realm while still using him as a scapegoat. In addition, unlike in The Wind Waker, Ganondorf has no personal qualms with Link since, in this timeline, he'd never actually crossed paths with one of his incarnations before. At most, a moment of conversation with Midna would be something he's looking for, but even so, he's not about to let a simple farmhand have such an easy chance to defeat him, especially with that wound in his chest...Of course, if it came about that he learned Link was descended from the one who spoiled his plans to the King of Hyrule and got him banished to the Twilight Realm, I imagine he wouldn't be so condescending, but as it is in-game, he has no reason to stoop to such a low.
"Hero Chosen By the Gods"
- In the game Link is clearly called 'Hero Chosen By The Gods'. But thing is I don't remember Hyrule having any important 'Gods', so shouldn't he be called 'Hero Chosen By The Goddesses', seeing as you know they created Hyrule and the Triforce, and you know how nowhere is the any ever mention a male deity stronger then Din, Nayru and Farore.
- The passage of time has a way of distorting terminology, especially when it comes to faith.
- OP here. Except it's the Light Spirits who refer to Link as 'Hero Chosen By The Gods', who know about the Goddesses.
- Throughout the games the trio have often been referred to as gods instead of goddesses. I always just thought it was a figure of speech. Alternatively, I don't think the Goddesses have a specific gender in the way we understand it (they have existed before the universe began after all), so they can be referred to as either male or female, and they're mainly referred to as female because that's what they look like.
- Let's also remember that the Triforce is never referred to by name, only Shad mentions you're Hylian, everybody else seems to think you're human and various other oddities in relation to standard Zelda lore. It's not entirely out of place for the Goddesses to be referred to as Gods. It could just be the Light Spirits cutting down his title - 'Hero Chosen By The Goddesses' is a bit of a mouthful.
- In the beginning of the game, Link is given the task of taking the Ordon shield and sword to Hyrule castle as gifts for the Royal Family. It's at one point mentioned that these gifts were specifically requested by said administration. (Wanting for an exact reference here, but I know it happened.) Why? There isn't anything overtly special about either of them, especially since the shield at least has much better versions available. What made them so important? And for that matter, why would Ordona owe the Royal Family anything? It's implied several times that Ordona isn't a part of Hyrule proper. Why would a little wooden shield and sword be important to the rulers of a kingdom?
- There could be any number of reasons. Ordona is not part of Hyrule proper, but must have some connection; Twilight Link is the only Link who is confirmed to be a blood descendant of another, Ocarina Link in this particular case. Given the good terms Ocarina Link and Zelda were on, even though Ordona's not a part of Hyrule, if Ocarina Link had a hand in its founding, that would have given the tiny nation a diplomatic relationship with the Hylian royal family, and the sword/shield combo is iconic to Link himself. The Ordon sword/shield being outclassed as weapons doesn't matter if they weren't intended to be weapons in the first place; the gift is a symbol of continuing diplomatic relations between the two nations, via an icon that carries a world of meaning to the Hylian royalty, made with the best of Ordon craftsmanship. At least, that's my take on it.
- IIRC, the Ordon sword and the sword alone was stated by Rusl to be a tribute to the royal family, not something they requested. Considering the fact that Zelda's coronation was supposed to happen the day Zant invaded and she was to become queen, it's a lot more understandable. They meant to send it as a gift to the new Queen. Why a sword? As far as I can tell, the only other things they could offer would be pumpkins and goat milk or cheese. Also I don't believe the shield was even mentioned by villagers until after their children were taken by monsters, when the Mayor said he was going to borrow another villager's wooden shield (that Link ended up taking) and the sword that was to be their gift to the royal family and use them to try and find the missing children.
- Twilight Princess includes many references to Link's adventures in Ocarina of Time, even though that technically never happened in Twilight Princess's timeline. Wouldn't references to Majora's Mask make slightly more sense? Is this a leftover from when TP was a prequel of The Wind Waker?
- That depends. Which references are you referring to? For example, there's reference made of the Seven Sages who attempted to execute Ganondorf, but those are not necessarily the same Sages from Ocarina; the events leading up to Ganondorf's execution transpired differently than the Adult Timeline of Ocarina, with Ganondorf being apprehended without ever laying his hand on the Triforce (but inheriting the Triforce of Power regardless because the Triforce transcends time and space; he already obtained it in another timeline, so he gets it here too).
- It's probably because Twilight Princess is supposed to be an Ocarina of Time 2.0, so even if the majority of OoT didn't take place in TP's timeline, OoT is still the biggest influence, being the quintessential 3D Zelda game. Also, the Fused Shadow bears some similarities to Majora's Mask appearance-wise, so it could count as a reference to MM.
Disappears into light
- When Zelda saves Midna's life by seemingly sacrificing herself, her body disappears. Later in the game after you beat Zant, Midna urges you to return to the castle so you can save Zelda, who... isn't there anymore. Zelda's body even shows up when you meet Ganondorf. This seemed like a massive plothole to me; was I misinterpreting that sacrifice scene? Because it looked a lot like Nintendo forgot it completely.
- Well, Zeldas have shown the ability to teleport in the past, and she likely knew her body would be left vulnerable by what she was about to do with Minda...It's possible she transfered her spirit/soul/triforce to Minda and teleported herself to a secure location in the castle. Enemies were still lurking, after all, and it would be a bad idea to just leave her defenceless body out in the open. Unfortunately she didn't plan on Ganondorf showing up while she was vulnerable, and he took her body and put it on display in the throne room. This IS the version of Ganondorf that got humiliated by a child Link and child Zelda when he was exposed and arrested. So it wouldn't surprise me if he got some kind of sick pleasure out of doing whatever he wanted with Zelda's body. ..................... And now I just imagined a sequel to TP involving a Zelda/Ganondorf baby as one of the major characters. I hate my mind sometimes. Though maybe it could be kind of awesome if they ended up being the protagonist...
- This is my theory on the subject - before Midna was cursed by Zant, one of her powers was the ability to withstand existence in the World of Light, and so he took away that power when he usurped her throne. Thus, when Midna was given Zelda's soul (or the Triforce of Wisdom, whichever you prefer to think), this was at a point when Ganondorf was already inside the castle and merely waiting to get his hands on her, and when Zelda became powerless by sacrificing herself for Midna, he took the opportunity and spirited her away to wherever he may have been waiting. After that, he waited until Link and Midna left the castle before he cast his barrier over it, so that they would have no choice but to go after Zant for the Fused Shadows before they could get back inside.
- Telma's group is trying to "restore peace to Hyrule." Does this mean that they are aware of the situation involving the Twilight covering Hyrule? Are they also aware that Zelda is gone and Ganondorf is in control of the castle? If so, are they trying to overthrow Ganondorf (as their name implies)? However, they have soldiers who apparently hang out in Telma's bar, and the soldiers are still guarding Hyrule Castle, which is under control of Ganondorf... I simply do not understand what is going on with Telma's group.
- I got the sense that they knew that something was going on, and had heard about things like monsters and whatnot terrorizing people, but didn't know just what was going on. They were looking into it, and wanted to do something, but the lacked the knowledge and direction to do anything until Link came along.
- Why did Zant call Midna a traitor? He's the one who did the backstabbing!
- He's kinda crazy. In his mind, he was probably the rightful heir doing what he needed to, and she betrayed him by not standing back and letting him rule. Does it make sense to sane people? Of course not.
- Not to mention, not only was she defying her rightful king (at least in his mind), but she also did so by teaming up with a light-dweller. Even if Zant wasn't totally insane, he could have just meant it as betraying her kind altogether by fighting alongside one descended from those who had oppressed them.
- How does Yeto get into and around the Snowpeak Ruins? You could say he just jumps onto the roof and drops down through the holes in the ceiling, but that wouldn't account for him somehow getting inside rooms like the parlor and kitchen...The ceilings in both these rooms don't have holes in them, and the doors are still too small for him to fit through.
- Elastic body? Swording him does no lasting damage, just bounces him and Yeta around.
Bar and Jovani's house
- For that matter, how does Telma's Bar connect with Jovani's house? Given their location in Castle Town, the two separated by a street, with a few other buildings in between them. It would appear that Link exited some sort of air vent before jumping onto Jovani's pile of gold. And that's not to mention the differences in elevation since the bar seems to be underground while the other is built on ground level. So how did Link get from Telma's to Jovani's?
- It's probably just that the transition between the two houses involves Link going through a long, convoluted underground passage that leads beneath the buildings and road and thus connects the tunnel from Telma's bar to the vent in Jovani's house. If so, the game's creators wouldn't have deemed it interesting or necessary enough to actually make players have to guide Link through it - I'd imagine it probably would've been too dark for them to see anything.
- The Hero's Shade who appears in this game is confirmed to be the Hero of Time, or rather, a manifestations of his regrets, yet it seems to be his regrets over not being remembered as a hero or his inability to pass on the skills he learned in life that kept him from passing on. If he were really so absorbed in looking for Navi that he got lost in the Lost Woods and became a Stalfos, which is what I'm assuming became of him, then shouldn't never being able to find her be his biggest regret? His lifelong search is the reason he never passed on his skills, and it was something he willingly devoted himself to, so assuming he didn't end up finding her, considering how we never see her alongside him or hear any mention of her, then what made him change his mind about what he really wanted to accomplish with his life after he died?
- Twilight Princess Link is a descendant of Hero of Time Link. He was not lost in the woods, and did not become a Stalfos. The lesson he learned in Majora's Mask is that even though Navi left, she's still his friend, and he can move on with his life. Presumably, he settled down with someone, but for whatever reason was unable to pass on his skills to his children. Maybe he just had a time of peace and there wasn't a need.
- If he supposedly stopped looking for Navi after Majora's Mask, when what was he doing back in the Lost Woods during the end credits? There was nothing in the game that suggested he was going to stop looking for her, and if anything, the mask salesman's words of "Whether that parting last forever, or merely a short time...That is up to you" would only motivate Link more to find her again. I assumed that he wanted to find Navi to at least assure her that she would always be his friend before he let her go again, like how the Giants did to the Skull Kid after they stopped the moon from falling - after all, they both seem to be the only two people in the world who actually remember everything they fought through.
- So, if searching for your lost friend caused you to lose connection with your children? Wouldn't you regret it?
- Of course it would. My point is that Link willingly spent his life in the Lost Woods searching for Navi, so much of it that he presumably died there, yet the game never makes mention of either his efforts to find her or why he decided to change his mind after he did.
- Whose saying he did? The ending credits of Link in the Lost Woods could just as easily be interpreted that Link's returning home the way he came in. He doesn't have any inclination to stay in the Lost Woods forever.
- And clearly he didn't, since Link in Twilight Princess is confirmed to be his descendant. But I think it's a bit more than notable that the Hero's Shade resembles a Stalfos, especially those from Ocarina of Time, and his armor is interspersed with spots of leafy green vegetation, which would certainly suggest the possibility that he died somewhere in a forest, and as an adult. In Ocarina of Time, it was said that anyone who becomes lost in the Lost Woods without the aid of a fairy would become a Stalfos - Link didn't have Navi with him, so that could be what happened to him.
- Nothing about a fairy is ever mentioned in the whole "becoming a Stalfos" thing. Fado says that anyone who goes into the forest will be lost, and then become a Stalfos. Link lived his whole life in the forest, though, to the point he probably knows how to find his way there very well without any fairy to guide him. And honestly, I dispute this so-called resemblance between the Hero's Shade and a Stalfos. The only thing they have in common is the fact their heads are/look like a skull and they wear armour, a shield and a sword. The Shade is more of a skull-faced ghost than anything else.
- This may be overthinking what amounts to a joke, but when human Link enters Telma's bar, she discusses taking the Zora boy to Renado in Kakariko. A group of guards in the bar say that it's too dangerous, but they're willing to escort them. Then Telma mentions the vicious beasts along the way, and the guards all flee. So... if they didn't know about the threats, why did they say it was too dangerous without an escort?
- Perhaps they themselves thought there was nothing threatening that could endanger them, but they made up the idea that there was something there in order to make themselves look more daring and worthy of praise, while banking on the assumption that Telma wouldn't actually have knowledge of the kinds of dangerous creatures they could come across...which, obviously, she did.
- What was the exact timeline of events that transpired after Zant transformed Midna into an imp? During the scene in which we're shown what happened to her, he curses her on the balcony, and then it just cuts to her walking (limping) away from the palace, falling to the ground, and summoning the Fused Shadow. It's unlikely given how many Shadow Beasts were probably storming the place that she would've been able to escape without them just letting her go, yet later when she and Link meet with Zelda, it's mentioned that Zant is using the Shadow Beasts to look for her. Well, if he didn't want her running loose, when why did he let her leave in the first place?
- Limping implies she didn't get away easily.
- No, I'm not sure she would've gotten away at all if anyone tried to oppose her. We're talking corrupted, darkly-enhanced creatures and a guy wielding near-unlimited strength and power, going up against someone who just had all of hers taken away. I used the word 'limping' to describe what it looked like Midna was doing - with how deformed and disproportional her body appears to be, and how we never even see her walking on the ground throughout the rest of the game, I'd guess that at that point she was still trying and failing to figure out how she was supposed to carry such a huge-looking head around with nothing but those tiny legs to support her weight. Luckily, she didn't have to - she remembered she had the Fused Shadow and realized she could use the powers it gave her in place of walking in order to get around. An answer I've sort of come up with through thinking a little bit was that maybe Zant wanted to let her go at first, in effect so he could turn the search for her into some sick, demented hunting-type thing. As in, instead of just letting the Shadow Beasts strangle her right there in the palace, he lets her go limping away for now so that he can watch with satisfaction at how hopeless her plight is after setting his might forces on her like hunting dogs. He just...didn't foresee the Fused Shadow as coming into play with all this.
- The way I see it, a sort-of problem with this game comes up at the very end, where Zelda says that it was through the meddling of the Golden Goddesses that the events of the story unfolded. While I can understand that this is meant to explain things such as the Mirror of Twilight being kept in Hyrule and why one of the Fused Shadows was allowed to be kept by the Interlopers in the Twilight Realm...Why would the Golden Goddesses want something like this to happen? Not only was an entire realm that had taken countless years to develop violently uprooted and turned upside-down and many innocent Twili and Hylians corrupted and killed by the shadow magic...but really the only good thing that ended up coming out of it was Midna realizing that not all people from the Light World are bad. Why did they decide that changing this one person's viewpoint was important enough to make them not destroy the mirror in the first place, especially since that's what ends up happening in the end anyway? It's not like Midna's dislike of light-dwellers had any direct influence on the fate of one world or the other.
- The meddling in question was Ganondorf getting the triforce of power. There is little to say that was done to get Midna to change her viewpoint. More so, Zelda tried to give Link the benefit of growing to become his own man through time travel and Link used the opportunity to prevent Ganondorf from rising to power. But the goddesses weren't going to let any of those shenanigans get in the way of what was supposed to happen and thus Ganondorf got the triforce of power against all odds anyway. Everything beyond that is the people's doing. They didn't have to send Ganondorf into the Twilight Realm (which ultimately just made things worse). Midna didn't have to be involved (hence the Sage's apology)
- Well, to suggest that it was the goddesses who gave Ganondorf the Triforce of Power in the Child Timeline seems to go against the very nature and behavior of the Triforce. To those who may not know this, when Link was sent back through time to his childhood years, the Triforce of Courage stayed with him in that era, whilst shattering in the Adult Timeline and leading to what happened in The Wind Waker - this inadvertantly fooled the Triforce (the 'divine prank' the ancient sages made reference to), which at that point was still in the Sacred Realm, into thinking someone had come in and touched it, thus the other two pieces were sent to those who believed in their virtues the most. To suggest that the Golden Goddesses themselves are the ones who chose these wielders, not only seems to go against this explanation, but also still begs to ask why any of them would have decided Ganondorf should receive one of the pieces. The gods don't seem to control where the Triforce goes.
- So, Midna is supposed to be a member of the royal family, while Zant was a servant or otherwise confidante of the royal family. Yet, for some reason, Zant expects that he will become the next king until he learns he got passed over for Midna. I don't get it; why wouldn't Midna have been the heir from the beginning?
- We're never exactly shown how the government of the Twilight Realm works - it's possible that royal blood alone isn't enough to get you the throne there, and that they hold elections between the different candidates to see which one of them gets it...Or, perhaps this was a special case, as Midna was perhaps considered unfit as first, due to being female or too young when her predecessor's reign ended, but all it took was a look at Zant for the Twili to see the greed in his eyes and realize who the more competent leader would've been.
Master Sword requirements
- In games like A Link to the Past/A Link Between Worlds, Ocarina of Time, and The Wind Waker, Link always has to go through a number of trials and collect a number of sacred artifacts, usually three of them, in order to be deemed worthy of wielding the Master Sword. Yet in this game, the only defenses anyone seemed to install in order to uphold those necessities are... super-jumping across a gorge, a game of hide-and-seek with a little pumpkinhead in a forest maze, and moving large statues into certain places. I know that Link has already gone through three dungeons by this point, but those were part of the quest for an entirely different objective. What made the gods/sages/powers that be so remiss when it came to safeguarding the sword against evil or falling into the wrong hands?
- The Master Sword can't fall into the wrong hands — literally, only the right hands can even hold the thing. The trials are to test if the wielder is worthy, not to keep it protected.
- So where were the trials that tested whether Link was worthy in this game? And for that matter, if only Link can draw the sword from its pedestal, then why does he need to go through any trials at all?
- Keep in mind that, prior to seeking the Master Sword, Link DID travel through three dungeons to obtain the three Fused Shadows. Perhaps that counted as qualification enough to use the Master Sword; it was just more indirect.
- Master Sword worthiness could also be hereditary; This is the only Link who is confirmed to be a descendant of an earlier Link who also wielded the sword.
Clearing Twilight in Desert and Peak
- How were the Desert and Peak Provinces cleared of twilight, if neither of them seem to have light spirits and Link doesn't visit them during the first part of his adventure?
- Maybe they were never overtaken by the Twilight, much like Ordon. They might even have their own unseen Light Spirits. It seems that Zant decided to strike at the heart of Hyrule first, and just then spread out to the outer territories. And then he just gave up, for some reason.
- After you've beaten Gor Coron in a sumo match, the Gorons on Death Mountain threaten that Link will pay dearly if they find out that he cheated. But he did cheat. Do they not notice the boots he's wearing that are made out of solid iron?
Warping out of castle
- After Midna is revived thanks to Zelda's sacrifice, she warps Link out of the castle and the two of them begin heading toward Faron Woods in order to claim the Master Sword. Beyond the fact that this allowed them a look at the barrier being cast over the castle while they were still nearby, why didn't she just warp them directly back to the forest?
- It could be that she could only teleport someone else at a certain distance, or didn't have enough time to put them in a specific location like the lost woods - pardon, I mean the Sacred Grove. The latter seems logical since the barrier was going to come up at any moment.
- I'm not sure I understand the second argument...Midna didn't know the barrier was about to appear, and Ganondorf probably wouldn't have made it appear anyway until she and Link had left the castle, to keep them busy hunting down Zant before they could reclaim the Fused Shadows and get back inside.
- Is Yeta actually a human woman? I mean, really, she's about 1/3 of the size of her husband and doesn't resemble him in any way, plus her "fur" is actually a large sweater.
- It's difficult to tell how truly out-of-place she is, since she's unfortunately the only female Yeti seen in-game, though I'm willing to bet that she is one - she's got green hair and toenails, the shape of her head is consistent with her husband's as well as the pelt that Ashei wears, she speaks in a way similar to how Yeto does, and it's been long-debated whether her fur/sweater is supposed to be fur or a sweater.
- Actually, about the fur-sweater debate...The pelt Ashei is shown wearing does appear to have a diamond pattern near the neckline, similar to the one seen on Yeta's body, hinting that it's more likely something natural...which probably means that female Yetis may not even have arms.
Gorons in bar
- I can understand the Gorons in Telma's bar kicking Link back out the door when he tries to enter in wolf form, but how could they have not noticed Midna on his back? She's very clearly injured, what with her heavy breathing and being slumped over and such, and she certainly looks human enough to not easily be mistaken for some sort of horrible monster, and is also large enough to be noticeable and warrant at least a good look...Not to mention, she seems to speak the same language as everyone else, meaning she could just explain to them that she needed to get through. Or is it just that people from the world of light can't see her?
- I always thought that Midna would freak a lot of people out. There are plenty of humanoid beasts around Hyrule. Also, most people you come across as Wolf Link get scared because they think he's the same type of dark creature that the twili beasts are. That already doesn't make sense to me, but it wouldn't be too much of a stretch to think they'd be wary of an actual twilight creature like Midna. That or they really just don't see her tiny black form on Link's black fur while they're busy kicking him out. What's more of a headscratcher is how she holds on when Link tumbles all the way over.
- Where exactly did Ordona come from? In the cutscene where Lanayru goes Exposition Fairy on us, he specifically states that the THREE light spirits sealed the interlopers away - implying him, Eldin, and Faron. Clearly leaving Ordona out. This could imply that Ordona did not take part in the Interloper Wars (unlikely, since ignoring that would be hard), or that she was a recent addition to the group. If it's the latter, then why was she recently added?
- Ordona presumably came into being in the same way as the others - the only reason she didn't obtain a fragment of the Fused Shadow was because the Golden Goddesses knew that Zant would eventually rise to power in the future. Thus, they gave three of the pieces to Faron, Eldin, and Lanayru, and left the fourth one in the hands of the Interlopers when they were banished, to ensure that Midna would have an advantage. The Ordona Province may not have been annexed into the kingdom of Hyrule at the time of the Interloper War, as well, which also explains why she wouldn't have been present.
- Zant knows by the start of the game that Midna is running around Hyrule with a Fused Shadow on her head - Zelda confirms this herself when she mentions how the shadow beasts are trying to hunt her down - so assuming he knows the legend of the sacred beast who will come to save the Twili, why didn't he have any more security around the cell where Link was first held as a wolf? Or better yet, why wouldn't he just be there himself to ambush Midna in person?
- I think he was busy trying to consolidate power and expand territory. He probably didn't even realize that Wolf!Link was imprisoned before Midna got to him first.
Empowering Zant, empowering Midna
- Prior to the events of the game, Ganondorf instilled a fraction of his Triforce's power in Zant, granting him the force he needed to overthrow Midna and presumably survive in the light world. Why, then, when Midna is near-death due to her inability to withstand light, does Zelda not try doing the same thing? Instead, she seems to pass the Triforce of Wisdom fully to Midna, instead of merely gifting her with a fraction of its power while still leaving some to sustain herself.
- Other than healing Midna, it could be because Zelda wanted to keep the Triforce of Wisdom out of Ganondorf's reach. If Zelda kept the Triforce of Wisdom in any way (as an entire piece or say, 1/8 piece of it) to herself, she'd risk Ganon taking it from her, thus allowing him to become stronger. Triforce of Power + 1/8 Triforce of Wisdom still sounds pretty intimidating, so it was probably best to rid herself of the thing entirely.
Warping human Link
- Midna will only warp Beast Link around, despite it being clearly obvious that she can warp Hylian Link around. Was there ever a reason given besides... well, a reason from an In-Universe or an actual game balance/development perspective, period?
- One explanation by be to keep a low profile. After all, if someone sees a huge wolf come striding up to them, with an imp on his back, no less, witnessing him dissolve into strange black particles and disappear into a portal wouldn't come as much more of a surprisee than anything else. On the other hand, Link as a human is viewed as a hero to some and an average Hylian boy to others, so warping in that form would be much more conspicuous. Another reason would be that the few times Midna does warp Link in human form - after gaining a Fused Shadow or a Mirror Shard - would be to a new burst of power she gains from them that allows her to warp him in a different form. And a third...could be that she just likes him that way. As she puts it, he looks much better as a beast than in the dusty old clothes he usually wears.
- Why does Midna never seem at all troubled or upset by the fact that the shadow beings she helps Link slaughter throughout the game were originally innocent members of the Twili, her own people? I know that she's supposed to be this mischievous, snarky character, and that they were all beyond saving after being corrupted and brainwashed by Zant, but you'd really think the caring, dedicated ruler she's shown to be later would feel some sort of regret at being forced to watch them die, wouldn't she?
- It is implied that people from Hyrule can be turned into Twil creatures under the right circumstances so maybe she realized that some of the Twil Creatures weren't her people and she simply didn't care? Than again that means Link is killing his own countrymen!
- Well, the hero of A Link to the Past kills mind-controlled knights. Link never seems very concerned about the moral nuances of Demonic Possession, so I don't imagine he'd lose too much sleep over it. Under that premise, this theory is pretty plausible!
- Link's side of things, however, is at least a touch more understandable, for three reasons...One, Midna is practically forcing him into fights with the Shadow Beasts, meaning he has no choice but to fight them without time for second thoughts; two, he doesn't find out until after he's killed more than 10 of them that some of them are actually innocent people; and three, even then, they would still have to be people he doesn't know squat about and thus would find it difficult to truly feel empathy for, unlike Midna, who, as the Twilight Princess, should know at least indirectly a majority of the Twili she helps Link kill. Also, residents of Kakariko village are really the only viable candidates who could have been transformed, as the Shadow Beasts are never seen invading areas like Ordon Village or Castle Town - thus, I'd wager a majority of the creatures are probably still Twili.
Imp Poe Souls
- The side quest for the Imp Poe souls. Jovani makes a deal with the Poes and he gets incredibly rich and his soul gets separated into sixty pieces and given to the poes, who go away. Now, when the hero comes to his house, he is solid gold. He's regretting the decision and has the hero kill off the poes that fairly traded with him and retrieve his soul fragments. No one even thinks twice about slaughtering these guys.
- However, it's assumed that this is a case of the Poes being a Literal Genie and/or Jackass Genie, clearly giving the man a fate he did not intend to wish for.
- It also helps that a number of them can't be ignored: if you want to go certain places, you have to deal with them or they'll hit you and set you back (think the Piece of Heart in the Snowpeak Ruins lobby; you have to beat the Imp Poe or he'll keep you from getting to it); some are in the cave of Ordeals and counted as enemies, so they have to be defeated to get the door to open; four are even part of one dungeon's puzzle. Also, the reward for beating 20 is tied with Rare Chu Jelly for the best potion in the game. (The reward for killing 60 is a bunch of Rupees, so, meh, but if you want 'em, or just want to see what Jovani really looks like...)
- They are shiny things in a game where the hero wants as many shiny things as possible. Link would take them even if Jovani didn't tell him to.
- Then again, if you think about his room, you realize that those aren't rupees on his floor, but solid, golden coins. This in itself brings up another question, however, namely how Jovani managed to get golden coins bearing the Hyrule royal crest when the accepted currency in Hyrule is rupees, which has been the case in every Zelda game to date.
Midna speaking of the Mirror
- At one point, Midna tells Link about how she heard legends of the Mirror of Twilight and how it could potentially lead them back to Zant. Question is, shouldn't she already know that it exists? How else did she get to Hyrule in the first place? If Zant sent her to Hyrule, then the question is now, why didn't Zant just take her prisoner in the first place? If he did try but she escaped, once again, how else did she get to Hyrule unless she used the Mirror of Twilight?
- Maybe she didn't need it (though whether it's because of her headgear or whatever is a mystery), but someone from the light side would. Alternatively, maybe she was using it all along without realizing it, even with it broken, and it's just that someone from the light side who would need to stand in front of a fixed mirror in order to go there.
- I've come up with a theory that Zant may have let her go initially so that he could experience the satisfaction of watching her be helplessly strangled by shadow beasts after being hunted down like the little beast he seems to view her as. But then Midna brought out the Fused Shadow and used its powers to evade him and put an end to that plan. As for the mirror and her knowledge of it, I'm not quite sure. Perhaps she used it to travel to Hyrule and then warped somewhere else from the desert - therefore, since she doesn't know squat about the kingdom's geography, she didn't know how to reach it again later on.
- The mirror can only be opened one way: from Hyrule's side. As long as it's open travel is possible both ways for some reason, but if there was a way to simply activate the mirror from the other side, the Twilight wouldn't be much of a prison. Zant and Midna must have first come to the Light World by some other method, probably something that was only available due to Triforce magic (with Midna piggybacking in whatever method Zant and Ganondorf used to escape, somehow).
Why Don't You Just Shoot Him, Zant?
- Zant confronts Link and Midna directly twice before his boss battle (after getting all the Fused Shadows, and in the boss chamber of the Arbiter's Grounds). This implies he knows they're trying to stop him and could be a threat, but instead of annihilating them like he did with the Hylian military he just throws minor obstacles at them and never follows up to see if they actually died? It's bizarre that he's content to be Orcus on His Throne in the endgame when he clearly shows mobility and an awareness of the heroes' actions at other points.
- The first time he confronted them, at Lanayru Spring, his ultimate goal was probably to kill them right then and there. Then Midna crossed him and, in my mind, he let his anger get the best of him by allowing Lanayru to return so he could force Midna into his light, even though this ended up backfiring by allowing the spirit to warp Link and Midna to safety. The next time he encountered them was when Link had the Master Sword, the one weapon that, no matter how powerful Zant is, is capable of harming him no matter what. So he reanimates Stallord to kill Link and shatters the mirror in case Link succeeds, doing everything short of killing him himself in order to try and hinder his progress.
- But if he's so afraid of the Master Sword, why does he attack Link and Midna when they come to him? Sure, he seemed kinda nutty at that point, but the scene seemed to imply he was always at that level of Psychopathic Manchild. He also should have followed them after he cursed Midna to make sure it worked, if he cared so much about torturing her to death — leaving them for dead is a complete Villain Ball. And honestly, what else is he spending his time on? Ruling the twilight realm doesn't seem to require much of him.
- He fights them in the Palace of Twilight because by that time, he's frustrated beyond frustration over them being such a persistent thorn in his side, he knows that he has nowhere else he can run to, he foolishly believes that his "god" will resurrect him even if he does happen to fall, and is basically throwing a temper tantrum and not thinking straight by that point. As for earlier, Lanayru warps Link and Midna to a random point in northern Hyrule Field, meaning Zant would have no insight as to where they could be at that point, and he also doesn't know that they have a way into the castle to see Zelda (the passage Telma told Link about earlier), meaning he could just as well assume that Midna will be dead before Link can get her there, leaving him trapped as a wolf forever with no way to communicate with Zelda, no way to reach the Master Sword (he can't make the jumps across the gorge on his own), and thus, no way to serve as a threat any longer.
Zelda's knowledge of Midna
- Midna: Princess...I have one last request...Could you tell him...how to find the mirror of twilight...?—
Zelda: ...Midna, I think I realize now just who and what you are.
- What did Zelda realize about Midna in this scene? That she was a Twili? If so, shouldn't she have been able to figure that out already by the fact that she lived in the twilight? Or was it that she was the Twilight Princess? If so, how could she have figured so much out from Midna merely asking where the mirror was? She seems to understand in this moment the horrible things Midna has gone through...so what sensible conclusion could she have come to that would lead to to this knowledge?
- Maybe the Triforce of Wisdom gives you impossibly good intuition?
- You're taking the line to literally. This is Midna dying. Midna an ally who claimed not to care about Link, or Zelda or the Lightworld, on her deathbed, still trying to give Link a method of fighting. It isn't that Zelda understood what Midna's title was, she probably knew from the very start, Zelda is saying she understands Midna's true nature and character.
- ...I'm not sure that I am. If Zelda just meant it as "I understand that deep down, you're a good person," she wouldn't have phrased it like she did. The implication of the scene is that Zelda is shocked upon learning that Midna is really, truly, the Twilight Princess, yet is still willing to help save the world of light. She's shocked at this because she understands Zant's hatred for light-dwellers is what caused the events of the game, and that Midna, one of his own kind, was only an innocent bystander who got in his way, yet she's bore the brunt of his evil tyranny just because he wanted her throne.
Pieces of Heart
- Wouldn't it make more sense for Link to take damage in fifths of a heart in this game, since it takes five Pieces of Heart to create one Heart Container?
How did Ganondorf prove himself worthy of the Triforce of Power by dying so pathetically?
- It's my understanding that, according to Word of God, the plot hole of how Ganondorf got the Triforce of Power in a timeline where the Triforce never split was that he proved he was worthy of it during his execution (presumably this accounts for how Zelda and Link have their Triforce pieces too). My question is... well, the folder title. How in the world does having all your plans thwarted before you got them off the ground and then getting executed like a common criminal prove your power? Ganondorf didn't do a single powerful thing in this timeline! He was utterly pathetic from start to finish! He shouldn't have even been in the running for Din's chosen champion.
- No, that's not how he got it. At the end of Ocarina of Time, Link kept the Triforce of Courage when he was returned to his childhood, after which he went to Zelda and her father and warned them of Ganondorf's plans, thus leading to his arrest and attempted execution. Ganondorf got the Triforce of Power because Link returning to his childhood with the Triforce of Courage caused another split, as though he had touched it, not because Ganondorf in any way had proven himself worthy.
- Where does it say that kid Link kept the Triforce of Courage in OoT? I don't recall anything implying that, and it requires we take an awful lot of liberties involving Timey-Wimey Ball.
- I'd wager Hyrule Historia says something on the matter...but if you don't have access to that, just look up the ending to Ocarina of Time - in the final scene, where Link goes to meet Zelda in the castle courtyard, you can see the mark of the Triforce of Courage on his hand. He used it as proof for Zelda's father of what Ganondorf had planned.
- Huh. Well, that certainly... complicates things. I think the simplest explanation would be that there are now two Triforces of Courage, but that clearly isn't the case so sure, the Triforce transcends spacetime, that makes as much sense as anything else in the series. I still could have sworn I heard the "Ganondorf got Power right then" explanation somewhere, but maybe that was Word of Dante.
- I wouldn't doubt it. That scene stumped a lot of people when the game came out, and people can come up with some pretty crazy stuff. Really, though, it isn't much different than something like, say, the Master Sword, which continued to exist in both timelines even after Link had vanished from one. As far as I can tell, the only difference is that Triforce of Courage seems to take up residence in Link's body or something, as opposed to being an item he just carries around in his pack.
- From what we see in Twilight Princess, Wind Waker and the ending of Ocarina of Time, things seem to have happened in the following way: 1- Link is sent back to a time before he acquired his Triforce piece. 2a- Leaving the timeline rips the Triforce of Courage from him, causing it to break in 9 parts and spread around waiting for a new host. 2b- Arriving in the new timeline causes the Triforce of Courage from there, which was sitting in the sealed Sacred Realm until then, to bond with him, even with the Temple of Time remaining untouched. 3b- The aforementioned bonding makes the other two pieces seek their own hosts, and so Ganondorf gets the Triforce of Power without even realising it, in the event that gets called the "prank of the gods" by the equally blindsided Sages.
- Why didn't the Master Sword dissolve the curse Zant placed on Midna, as it did Link's? They were both cast using his evil magic, weren't they?
- Well we know no one other than Link has the ability to wield the Master Sword so Midna probably can't physically touch it without risking serious health issues. Maybe if he stabbed it with her it would break her curse but that wouldn't help much if it killed her.
Hena and art
- Something of a missed opportunity I feel is the lack of response when you try to show Hena the sketch. At the very least, she could have said something like, "Hmm... no, sorry, I don't know this fish. But hey, maybe you could ask the Zoras! I bet they'll know something about it!" and then the Zoras would point you to Ralis and the game would go on. Maybe they didn't anticipate someone taking it all the way to the Fishing Hole when the Zoras are right there, but...
- Probably. The Zora who directs you to Ralis is located just outside the tunnel connecting their domain to the mountains of Snowpeak, and Ashei mentions that the beast has been spotted stealing fish from the Zora village and that the Zoras would know more about him...Not to mention, Hena only plays a part in a few optional sidequests - it would be pretty frustrating if such a minor NPC were the only way players would figure out how to advance in the quest, and it wouldn't make sense, really, for anyone to go that far out of the way just to ask her when they have to literally walk past every Zora in the game in order to do so.
- It doesn't have to be necessary but it would have made a nice bit of flavor text.
Why must you go?
- Why did this game end with Link departing from Ordon Village? Where did he go? And why? The other two games where Link left his home at the end at least had an obvious reason for it - in Ocarina of Time, he went into the Lost Woods to search for his only friend Navi, while in The Wind Waker, he left Outset to travel the world in search of a new land to call Hyrule, as he and Tetra had promised the King of Hyrule. But here, Link knows where Midna is, he knows that she's happy, he has friends in Ordon Village, and he's not completely alone in the world with no one to reminisce with about his adventure like the Heroes of Time or Winds.
- It's possible that he just didn't feel the same after his adventures. It can be hard settling back into civilian life after months of hard combat like Link had to face. I always thought he just ran off to seek more adventure, or at the very least, explore unknown locations.
- Clearly, he left to procure a magic crossbow and have some fun.
Those chosen by the gods
- Why does Link's Triforce piece transform him into a wolf when he enters the twilight? The Triforce of Wisdom is shown to allow Zelda to retain her true form, as does Ganondorf's presumably, and there are certainly a number of circumstances and situations that his human form would be better-suited to deal with.
- I always figured that the wolf transformation was caused when one of the shadow creatures tried to corrupt Link into one of them. The triforce reacted to it's host being tainted by darkness by countering it with it's own power which only let the corruption devolve him into a beast rather than a full on monster.
- Link's transformations whenever he is pulled into the twilight is caused by him being pulled right through the wall of darkness to get there...A wall made entirely out of the Shadow Crystals seen later. And my question is why does he turn into a wolf, of all things? Zelda's Triforce piece allows her to remain human, whereas Ganondorf's turns him into a...demon pig or a huge flaming head-thing, so what's with the inconsistency between the three of them?
- I think you just explained it. Link only transforms when he gets pulled through the wall. If he went via the mirror or if Twilight covered the land while he was in that region then he'd probably remain hylian like Zelda. It's the wall itself that changes him. Which just begs the question, what would happen to Zelda if she was pulled through such a wall?
- The wolf transformation is explicitly stated to be an alternative to the spirit transformation regular people go through in Twilight. It has nothing to do with the wall, as everyone who turns into a spirit is already inside the area when it gets covered, same as Zelda. As for why the Triforce pieces offer different protection measures for each of the chosen ones... well, there are a lot of weird details like that which never get explained in the early plot of the game, so I'll guess the devs never bothered to create a reason other than "we want Link to be a wolf and Zelda to remain human".
- Well, that sort of begs the question of why Link does transform into a wolf when Zant attacks him after the Lakebed Temple, but not when he uses the Mirror of Twilight to enter the Twilight Realm. (The twilight of the realm isn't inherently "evil", either, so it can't be because he has the Master Sword to protect him.)
- So wait, Midna can warp Link out of boss rooms without turning him into a wolf... but use any other portal, and it's canis lupus time? I guess in terms of gameplay, it keeps you from just freely warping everywhere before you can transform almost at will (and, speaking of which, enforces the the special limitation of having to be out of sight first), but... shouldn't you turn into a wolf upon leaving a dungeon? Or is it because the boss room portals are her magic, while the others are Zant's/Ganondorf's?
- I don't believe the portals Midna makes at the end of every dungeon are necessarily the same kind as those formed from shadow beasts. For one, the swirls in the center of the two look different from each other, and those made inside dungeons are completely flat and don't actually have Link travel inside them. It's possible the latter type are harder to make, as they cause Link to spawn from twilight right in the middle of nowhere and in a form that is normally incompatible with the Twili's shadow magic, hence why Midna is only able to create them after having obtained a new burst of power from the latest-gained Fused Shadow or Mirror Shard. Some especially strong evidence in support of this, I believe, is during the final battle, when Midna surrounds herself with all four Fused Shadows and is able to warp Link and Zelda in human form from the castle's throne room to Hyrule Field, without a portal on either end.
Killing a Triforce bearer
- Having (finally!) experienced the ending of Twilight Princess, I'm left with a thought: what does it take to kill someone who bears the Triforce? In The Wind Waker, Ganondorf is just eternally sealed. Whether or not he's actually dead is of little consequence. However, in this, he actually kicks the bucket, seemingly implied by the image of the Triforce of Power vanishing from his hand. So why would that happen? Is he no longer worthy because he lost to Link or did it just reach the limitations of its ability to protect him (having been stabbed through the heart by the Master Sword, the ultimate tool against evil in Hyrule)? I ask this because I want to wrap my head around how the "Hero Dies" timeline fork came about, since it seems like the scenario there is the Triforce of Courage offered no protection for its chosen bearer either.
- The Triforce of Power is the only piece that can give its wielded nigh-invulnerability, by making them so powerful that it's extremely difficult, if not impossible, to kill them at all - the other pieces grant their own unique abilities, but longevity isn't one of them, meaning Link being killed isn't meant to be questioned. My guess is that Ganondorf was able to be killed in this game because his crest had already saved him from certain death once before, and even then, the sages' sword had to have done something more to him seeing how it left a glowing wound in his chest that he hadn't bothered to cover up.
- Also, as a side note, Ganondorf was killed off for good at the end of The Wind Waker - before the final battle, he surrendered his Triforce piece alongside Link's and Zelda's, but the King of Hyrule got to the completed Triforce first, and the pieces went away and disappeared after he made his wish. That's why Ganondorf was able to be killed in the final battle, because he no longer had it protecting him.
- The Triforce of Power is the only piece that can give its wielded nigh-invulnerability, by making them so powerful that it's extremely difficult, if not impossible, to kill them at all - the other pieces grant their own unique abilities, but longevity isn't one of them, meaning Link being killed isn't meant to be questioned. My guess is that Ganondorf was able to be killed in this game because his crest had already saved him from certain death once before, and even then, the sages' sword had to have done something more to him seeing how it left a glowing wound in his chest that he hadn't bothered to cover up.
Zant and the Fused Shadows
- Why did Zant leave Midna with a fused shadow on her head and only steal three? You think he'd want the full set.
- He'd probably planned on taking all of them when he arrived and confronted them, but him trying to kill Midna by forcing her into Lanayru's light was just an impulse he acted on when she refused to side with him and hadn't been accounted for previously. This wouldn't have mattered though, because he assumed she would be dead soon enough - he had no knowledge of the secret passage into the castle from Telma's bar that Link had heard about earlier, or that Zelda would be willing to sacrifice herself.